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Old
12-18-2011, 01:45 AM
  #26
OneSharpMarble
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We aren't bad enough to be bottom 10, there will always be many teams worse than us. No player outside of top 5 is likely to have any effect on this team for several years so why would we consider tanking?

We need a rebuild like the flyers. Get stronger players and move good veterens. If Cammalleri and Gionta play well we need to move them next offseason. Maybe even move Plekanec if the right deal is there.

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Old
12-18-2011, 01:58 AM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterDecoy View Post
ill just repeat what i've said before:

if by the deadline we are out of it, then by all means, be sellers. take what ever you can for the usual suspects. but say we manage to move gionta, cammalleri, gomez, gill, kaberle and campoli, im not even sure we still would be bad enough to 'tank' properly.

play budaj for the rest of the way? im sure randy is gonna love losing....

if we end up with a top 10 pick, that's fine by me.

and lastly: montreal doesn't tank. ****, montreal doesn't even like losing, let alone losing so bad, you end up with a top pick. so i doubt that happens...
Nobody is saying that we will tank. But enough with the stupid quick fixes...

Trade vets for picks and prospects. Then DEVELOP those prospects and stop with going out and getting band-aids to salvage 8th place.

BTW, anyone know anything about the guy who Ottawa gave up for Turris? Just curious as to what we could've paid to get him.

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Old
12-18-2011, 02:05 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
We aren't bad enough to be bottom 10, there will always be many teams worse than us. No player outside of top 5 is likely to have any effect on this team for several years so why would we consider tanking?

We need a rebuild like the flyers. Get stronger players and move good veterens. If Cammalleri and Gionta play well we need to move them next offseason. Maybe even move Plekanec if the right deal is there.
None of our players have the value Carter/Richards had...

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Old
12-18-2011, 03:33 AM
  #29
DDs not undersized
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I wouldn't do a complete rebuild, but probably something similar to that plan :

MY PLAN

1- Fire Pierre Gauthier

2- Fire Donald Beauchamp and Dominick Saillant (we seriously need to change the communication philosophy)

3- Fire Larry Carrière and other Gauthier's buddies. Fire Patrick Boivin (Ok, not sure about this one... I don't know him but he has a very important job and is there only because he's the son of Pierre Boivin. It's time to give the jobs to deserving people)

4- Hire a new GM. I would interview Julien Brisebois, Vincent Damphousse and Pierre Lacroix, among other ones.

5- Hire a new coach. I would interview Martin Raymond, Pascal Vincent, Benoît Groulx, Clément Jodoin, Marc Crawford, Bob Hartley, André Tourigny, Patrick Roy and Larry Robinson. Maybe it's a good idea to wait after the end of the season to let the Randies finish.

6- Let the coach chose his assistants.

7- Hire a whole scouts team for Quebec only to support the work of Serge Boisvert. Every junior, midget and bantam league must be heavily scrutinized.

8- Initiate a yearly summit on the state of junior hockey in Quebec. Take active participation in the thought process of how to produce new hockey stars in the Quebec hockey system.

9- Invest money in new school-hockey programs. Continue to build new arenas in poor neighborhood. Create a foundation to help to collect money for such initiatives or to give scholarchips to the most talented junior and minor players in Quebec. Expose your plan to the medias. Give many interviews and try to mobilize the Quebec hockey world to improve the junior and minor hockey system.

10- Tell Timmins and his team to put a special emphasis on players from Quebec at the draft.

11- Trade Cammalleri, Kaberle, Kostitsyn and Weber for draft picks and youngsters. Try to target offensive minded forwards.

12- Put Plekanec, Gionta, Moen, Gill, Campoli and Budaj on the market and try to higher the stakes, but don't trade them unless there's a very good return.

13- Build around Price, Subban, Gorges, Emelin, Pacioretty, Desharnais, Eller, Leblanc and the newly acquired prospects and draft picks. Markov and Cole will also still be there. If Kaberle is untradable, keep him too. But I'd take a 4th round pick for him.

14- Finish the season with a team similar to that one + the newly acquired players :

Pacioretty - Desharnais - Cole
Moen - Plekanec - Gionta
Darche - Eller - Leblanc
Gomez - Nokelainen - White (Palushaj)

Subban - Gorges
Markov - Emelin
Campoli - Kaberle
Diaz

15- Bury Gomez in the minors at the end of the season.

16- Try to add some toughness on the free agent market (Kunitz, Gaustad, Coburn, Downie, Tootoo, Asham) but DON'T spend too much.

......


Last edited by DDs not undersized: 12-18-2011 at 03:42 AM.
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Old
12-18-2011, 06:29 AM
  #30
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Yes, the wrong man was fired yesterday. No coach could win with this team, fire Pierre Gauthier before he does anything else, him and Gainey are completely out of touch with todays game. They suck, we suck and changes need to happen.

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Old
12-18-2011, 06:50 AM
  #31
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Rebuilding doesn't have to involve tanking or losing on purpose. Gionta, Cammy still carry 1st rd pick + value to a desperate club, gomez will bring nothing of significance, minors or compliance buyout is the only option with him, otherwise you'll only get another poor contract. Gill has late rd pick value, hopefully Kaberle will increase his value to 1st rd pickish value as well. I doubt it, but who knows.

Three or 4 1st rd picks would go a long way to recovery. Only problem here is Gorges, does he stay for a rebuild? I can't see why not, I don't think losing all those guys does anything to hurt our position in the standings. We'd likely be exactly where we are without all them garbage contracts. Afterall, none of them are doing anything positive anyways. I think Cammy is done here, he's looked brutal since being signed imo, other than the odd 15-20 game stretch where he'll catch fire, he'll succeed on a roster who can insulate him with some size, but not here, stick a fork in him.

We have thrown about 30million of annual salary down the *******. You will never win when have your cash being used on crap, thank god we got some young players on ELC that are carrying the load, or else we'd be completely screwed. It's alright to have the odd overpriced contact, but you can't be approaching half your cap space being basically worthless, 7.3m Gomez, 5.75m Markov, 6m Cammy, Gill 2.75?, Gionta 5, about 25 million in passengers and spare parts, if you add kabs to that, we're at around 30m. Absolutely disastrous.

When PJ Stock, brought it up last night, I know he's a blow hard, bla bla bla. I think it might actually be the posters on here biased towards him than the other way around, but, having said that, he was right, our management has way, way, way too much cash tied up in nothing, it's gross tbh.


Last edited by habsjunkie2*: 12-18-2011 at 06:59 AM.
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Old
12-18-2011, 07:05 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Partisan du CH View Post
I wouldn't do a complete rebuild, but probably something similar to that plan :

MY PLAN

1- Fire Pierre Gauthier

2- Fire Donald Beauchamp and Dominick Saillant (we seriously need to change the communication philosophy)

3- Fire Larry Carrière and other Gauthier's buddies. Fire Patrick Boivin (Ok, not sure about this one... I don't know him but he has a very important job and is there only because he's the son of Pierre Boivin. It's time to give the jobs to deserving people)

4- Hire a new GM. I would interview Julien Brisebois, Vincent Damphousse and Pierre Lacroix, among other ones.

5- Hire a new coach. I would interview Martin Raymond, Pascal Vincent, Benoît Groulx, Clément Jodoin, Marc Crawford, Bob Hartley, André Tourigny, Patrick Roy and Larry Robinson. Maybe it's a good idea to wait after the end of the season to let the Randies finish.

6- Let the coach chose his assistants.

7- Hire a whole scouts team for Quebec only to support the work of Serge Boisvert. Every junior, midget and bantam league must be heavily scrutinized.

8- Initiate a yearly summit on the state of junior hockey in Quebec. Take active participation in the thought process of how to produce new hockey stars in the Quebec hockey system.

9- Invest money in new school-hockey programs. Continue to build new arenas in poor neighborhood. Create a foundation to help to collect money for such initiatives or to give scholarchips to the most talented junior and minor players in Quebec. Expose your plan to the medias. Give many interviews and try to mobilize the Quebec hockey world to improve the junior and minor hockey system.

10- Tell Timmins and his team to put a special emphasis on players from Quebec at the draft.

11- Trade Cammalleri, Kaberle, Kostitsyn and Weber for draft picks and youngsters. Try to target offensive minded forwards.

12- Put Plekanec, Gionta, Moen, Gill, Campoli and Budaj on the market and try to higher the stakes, but don't trade them unless there's a very good return.

13- Build around Price, Subban, Gorges, Emelin, Pacioretty, Desharnais, Eller, Leblanc and the newly acquired prospects and draft picks. Markov and Cole will also still be there. If Kaberle is untradable, keep him too. But I'd take a 4th round pick for him.

14- Finish the season with a team similar to that one + the newly acquired players :

Pacioretty - Desharnais - Cole
Moen - Plekanec - Gionta
Darche - Eller - Leblanc
Gomez - Nokelainen - White (Palushaj)

Subban - Gorges
Markov - Emelin
Campoli - Kaberle
Diaz

15- Bury Gomez in the minors at the end of the season.

16- Try to add some toughness on the free agent market (Kunitz, Gaustad, Coburn, Downie, Tootoo, Asham) but DON'T spend too much.

......
Most of your ideas are sound, aside from point number 10. I have np scouting the Q more thoroughly, if that's what you mean by more emphasis, fine, but if you mean draft more Q players to pander to a few fans, not for me.

I like everything else, we generally on the players to come and go with some slight tweaking there with a few guys like gionta, he should be one of the first out the door imo, right after Cammy.

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Old
12-18-2011, 07:37 AM
  #33
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re-tool only, these guys can go Gomez, Gill, Cammy.

No disrespect to gill, he is a great guy, but father time as come knockin.

Gomez will get the habs nothing in value, if anything at all, but it will free up a lot of money (burry him on the farm if there is no takers.).

Cammy plus will get a decent return.

The way that PK is playing on times (pee wee on nights...i have the puck and i can go though to whole team myself or look at my slapshot, i have all the time in the world to shoot it) he shouldn't be looking for any great amount of money in the off season.

Price, like PK hasn't given any reason to be signed for 5-7 million anytime soon, mental errors, not able to make keys saves at key times during the game, ot and shootout problems costing valuable points

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Old
12-18-2011, 08:35 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
This team needs to Build.

The world re-build implies tearing down something great and return to something equally great or better.

This team started rebuilding about 1995. It squandered its assets and its window.


I have been saying this for 10 years now and all I do is get ripped on these threads
for suggesting it

we never build the core like Detroit , hence the mish mash of crap every year

problem is this management team has no clue or is capable of doing it

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Old
12-18-2011, 08:38 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EllertoKostitsynGoal View Post
More like a Re-tool, We aren't in Calagary territory... yet.
when your 11th in the conference fighting for a spot

your in Calgary mode ....wtf is the difference

too many stupid contracts , age , underachievers ,


Last edited by onemorecup*: 12-18-2011 at 08:39 AM. Reason: spelling error
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Old
12-18-2011, 08:48 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Partisan du CH View Post
I wouldn't do a complete rebuild, but probably something similar to that plan :

MY PLAN

1- Fire Pierre Gauthier

2- Fire Donald Beauchamp and Dominick Saillant (we seriously need to change the communication philosophy)

3- Fire Larry Carrière and other Gauthier's buddies. Fire Patrick Boivin (Ok, not sure about this one... I don't know him but he has a very important job and is there only because he's the son of Pierre Boivin. It's time to give the jobs to deserving people)

4- Hire a new GM. I would interview Julien Brisebois, Vincent Damphousse and Pierre Lacroix, among other ones.

5- Hire a new coach. I would interview Martin Raymond, Pascal Vincent, Benoît Groulx, Clément Jodoin, Marc Crawford, Bob Hartley, André Tourigny, Patrick Roy and Larry Robinson. Maybe it's a good idea to wait after the end of the season to let the Randies finish.

6- Let the coach chose his assistants.

7- Hire a whole scouts team for Quebec only to support the work of Serge Boisvert. Every junior, midget and bantam league must be heavily scrutinized.

8- Initiate a yearly summit on the state of junior hockey in Quebec. Take active participation in the thought process of how to produce new hockey stars in the Quebec hockey system.

9- Invest money in new school-hockey programs. Continue to build new arenas in poor neighborhood. Create a foundation to help to collect money for such initiatives or to give scholarchips to the most talented junior and minor players in Quebec. Expose your plan to the medias. Give many interviews and try to mobilize the Quebec hockey world to improve the junior and minor hockey system.

10- Tell Timmins and his team to put a special emphasis on players from Quebec at the draft.

11- Trade Cammalleri, Kaberle, Kostitsyn and Weber for draft picks and youngsters. Try to target offensive minded forwards.

12- Put Plekanec, Gionta, Moen, Gill, Campoli and Budaj on the market and try to higher the stakes, but don't trade them unless there's a very good return.

13- Build around Price, Subban, Gorges, Emelin, Pacioretty, Desharnais, Eller, Leblanc and the newly acquired prospects and draft picks. Markov and Cole will also still be there. If Kaberle is untradable, keep him too. But I'd take a 4th round pick for him.

14- Finish the season with a team similar to that one + the newly acquired players :

Pacioretty - Desharnais - Cole
Moen - Plekanec - Gionta
Darche - Eller - Leblanc
Gomez - Nokelainen - White (Palushaj)

Subban - Gorges
Markov - Emelin
Campoli - Kaberle
Diaz

15- Bury Gomez in the minors at the end of the season.

16- Try to add some toughness on the free agent market (Kunitz, Gaustad, Coburn, Downie, Tootoo, Asham) but DON'T spend too much.

......
Very well thought out plan, I would like to add another name to the GM list, (thinking out of the box), Pat Brisson, one of the most successful player agents today. He's from Quebec, check out his client list, it's very impressive, he represents some the best players in the NHL today, he's one the best in the biz, and the Canadiens should only consider hiring the best

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Old
12-18-2011, 08:49 AM
  #37
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[QUOTE=habsjunkie2;41135537]Rebuilding doesn't have to involve tanking or losing on purpose. Gionta, Cammy still carry 1st rd pick + value to a desperate club, gomez will bring nothing of significance, minors or compliance buyout is the only option with him, otherwise you'll only get another poor contract. Gill has late rd pick value, hopefully Kaberle will increase his value to 1st rd pickish value as well. I doubt it, but who knows.

Three or 4 1st rd picks would go a long way to recovery. Only problem here is Gorges, does he stay for a rebuild? I can't see why not, I don't think losing all those guys does anything to hurt our position in the standings. We'd likely be exactly where we are without all them garbage contracts. Afterall, none of them are doing anything positive anyways. I think Cammy is done here, he's looked brutal since being signed imo, other than the odd 15-20 game stretch where he'll catch fire, he'll succeed on a roster who can insulate him with some size, but not here, stick a fork in him.

We have thrown about 30million of annual salary down the *******. You will never win when have your cash being used on crap, thank god we got some young players on ELC that are carrying the load, or else we'd be completely screwed. It's alright to have the odd overpriced contact, but you can't be approaching half your cap space being basically worthless, 7.3m Gomez, 5.75m Markov, 6m Cammy, Gill 2.75?, Gionta 5, about 25 million in passengers and spare parts, if you add kabs to that, we're at around 30m. Absolutely disastrous.

When PJ Stock, brought it up last night, I know he's a blow hard, bla bla bla. I think it might actually be the posters on here biased towards him than the other way around, but, having said that, he was right, our management has way, way, way too much cash tied up in nothing, it's gross tbh.[/QUO


Last edited by onemorecup*: 12-18-2011 at 09:18 AM. Reason: typing errors
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Old
12-18-2011, 08:51 AM
  #38
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Our team is good enough on paper to beat anyone. And even if we rebuild, with the cap and everything, the best you can do in today's NHL is to build a pretty good team and hope for the best.

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Old
12-18-2011, 08:54 AM
  #39
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Would you do Dubinsky for Gionta?

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Old
12-18-2011, 09:00 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frolundasweden View Post
Would you do Dubinsky for Gionta?
Not the Rangers...

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Old
12-18-2011, 09:06 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habsjunkie2 View Post
Rebuilding doesn't have to involve tanking or losing on purpose. Gionta, Cammy still carry 1st rd pick + value to a desperate club, gomez will bring nothing of significance, minors or compliance buyout is the only option with him, otherwise you'll only get another poor contract. Gill has late rd pick value, hopefully Kaberle will increase his value to 1st rd pickish value as well. I doubt it, but who knows.

Three or 4 1st rd picks would go a long way to recovery. Only problem here is Gorges, does he stay for a rebuild? I can't see why not, I don't think losing all those guys does anything to hurt our position in the standings. We'd likely be exactly where we are without all them garbage contracts. Afterall, none of them are doing anything positive anyways. I think Cammy is done here, he's looked brutal since being signed imo, other than the odd 15-20 game stretch where he'll catch fire, he'll succeed on a roster who can insulate him with some size, but not here, stick a fork in him.

We have thrown about 30million of annual salary down the *******. You will never win when have your cash being used on crap, thank god we got some young players on ELC that are carrying the load, or else we'd be completely screwed. It's alright to have the odd overpriced contact, but you can't be approaching half your cap space being basically worthless, 7.3m Gomez, 5.75m Markov, 6m Cammy, Gill 2.75?, Gionta 5, about 25 million in passengers and spare parts, if you add kabs to that, we're at around 30m. Absolutely disastrous.

When PJ Stock, brought it up last night, I know he's a blow hard, bla bla bla. I think it might actually be the posters on here biased towards him than the other way around, but, having said that, he was right, our management has way, way, way too much cash tied up in nothing, it's gross tbh.
great post bro

took the words right out pf my mouth

team is a mish mash of s h i t , grossly overpaid

I really laugh when I read these posts that Cammy is a front liner , or the leadership of Gionta , etc....

are you guys finally convinced from my posts that Markov is done ? how many more seasons of Pleks giving you zero in the playoffs do u want to see ?

we have no front liners except Price , but this year he is good not great

the only way we make the playoffs is if he is GREAT

but for all you DD , Cole lovers or waiting for Cammy to turn around or thinking we are a retool job away from winning , keep drinking the kool aid folks

we have Eller who should be our second center playing bottom 6 minutes , while we are waiting for the midget in DD to carry us

I dont care what DD is doing , the dude is not a top 2 center and would be on the farm of most qualilty teams . Eller is bigger , faster , stronger , and given his linemates , pp time and minutes , surlely he can have 20 points by now
at least he can be a legit #2 center , DD ISNT

this needs an Olier tear down b4 this ship gets tuned around

first order of business at the trade line or sooner ( but it will never happen )

get what you can for Gio, Cammy, Gill, Moen , and Kosty and move on with picks
and some return of talent

we would need to take back some salary but hopefully it isnt too long term

we need a new philosophy with development , stop this BS of giving legit talent cup of coffee minutes on 4th lines and put them in a role they can succeed.

I have seen enough of Leblanc , the dude can play , put him on the top 6 on the wing , and put Gio on the 3rd line for a brief stint and see what he can do

Leblanc is our future , Gio at 33 soon isnt

and finally to the management team of the Habs

stop these BS 4-5 mil signings on just decent players like Cole , Spacek, etc , in the offseason who are not going to do anything for us

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Old
12-18-2011, 09:08 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by frolundasweden View Post
Would you do Dubinsky for Gionta?
f-ya! But I don't think the rangers would

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Old
12-18-2011, 09:13 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Partisan du CH View Post
I wouldn't do a complete rebuild, but probably something similar to that plan :

4- Hire a new GM. I would interview Julien Brisebois, Vincent Damphousse and Pierre Lacroix, among other ones.

5- Hire a new coach. I would interview Martin Raymond, Pascal Vincent, Benoît Groulx, Clément Jodoin, Marc Crawford, Bob Hartley, André Tourigny, Patrick Roy and Larry Robinson. Maybe it's a good idea to wait after the end of the season to let the Randies finish.


......
Grooming Damphousse as future GM and Groulx behind the bench, I'm all for that!!
I think Damphousse has the smarts and the stature for the job.
As for Groulx, he looks solid, doesn't rattle easily and even on down years his teams compete hard.

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Old
12-18-2011, 09:14 AM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil Ted View Post
Do the philly or boston style of re-tool. You dont have to sell the farm when you already have some good peices in place. Leafs kind of did the same.
bro you ok ?

we dont a Giroux , Bergeron ,Seguin , etc,,,framework at the right age to work with like these 2 teams

we dont have the Carter or Richards to get the Coturier or Voracek and Schenn`s in a deal .

hence we need a tear down folks

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12-18-2011, 09:19 AM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Partisan du CH View Post
I wouldn't do a complete rebuild, but probably something similar to that plan :

MY PLAN

1- Fire Pierre Gauthier

2- Fire Donald Beauchamp and Dominick Saillant (we seriously need to change the communication philosophy)

3- Fire Larry Carrière and other Gauthier's buddies. Fire Patrick Boivin (Ok, not sure about this one... I don't know him but he has a very important job and is there only because he's the son of Pierre Boivin. It's time to give the jobs to deserving people)

4- Hire a new GM. I would interview Julien Brisebois, Vincent Damphousse and Pierre Lacroix, among other ones.

5- Hire a new coach. I would interview Martin Raymond, Pascal Vincent, Benoît Groulx, Clément Jodoin, Marc Crawford, Bob Hartley, André Tourigny, Patrick Roy and Larry Robinson. Maybe it's a good idea to wait after the end of the season to let the Randies finish.

6- Let the coach chose his assistants.

7- Hire a whole scouts team for Quebec only to support the work of Serge Boisvert. Every junior, midget and bantam league must be heavily scrutinized.

8- Initiate a yearly summit on the state of junior hockey in Quebec. Take active participation in the thought process of how to produce new hockey stars in the Quebec hockey system.

9- Invest money in new school-hockey programs. Continue to build new arenas in poor neighborhood. Create a foundation to help to collect money for such initiatives or to give scholarchips to the most talented junior and minor players in Quebec. Expose your plan to the medias. Give many interviews and try to mobilize the Quebec hockey world to improve the junior and minor hockey system.

10- Tell Timmins and his team to put a special emphasis on players from Quebec at the draft.

11- Trade Cammalleri, Kaberle, Kostitsyn and Weber for draft picks and youngsters. Try to target offensive minded forwards.

12- Put Plekanec, Gionta, Moen, Gill, Campoli and Budaj on the market and try to higher the stakes, but don't trade them unless there's a very good return.

13- Build around Price, Subban, Gorges, Emelin, Pacioretty, Desharnais, Eller, Leblanc and the newly acquired prospects and draft picks. Markov and Cole will also still be there. If Kaberle is untradable, keep him too. But I'd take a 4th round pick for him.

14- Finish the season with a team similar to that one + the newly acquired players :

Pacioretty - Desharnais - Cole
Moen - Plekanec - Gionta
Darche - Eller - Leblanc
Gomez - Nokelainen - White (Palushaj)

Subban - Gorges
Markov - Emelin
Campoli - Kaberle
Diaz

15- Bury Gomez in the minors at the end of the season.

16- Try to add some toughness on the free agent market (Kunitz, Gaustad, Coburn, Downie, Tootoo, Asham) but DON'T spend too much.

......
You and people like you epitomize what is wrong with this franchise and why it will NEVER be anything more than a bush league team grasping to its former greatness. The emphasis that the head coach needs to be francophone... Heavily scout the Q... It's these retarded notions that this team has to reflect the city it's located in. Do Pittsburgh and Detroit put such an emphasis on local boys? Ken Holland isn't from Michigan, so we can't hire him... Screw Dan Bylsma cause he's not a Pittsburgh boy... What you effectively do is handcuff this team by limiting its talent pool on whom is an effective hire. Given the problems this team has (tax issue, cultural divide, etc.) attracting top talent, why are you going to further constrain yourself? How is this for an idea: HIRE YOUR GOD DAMN COACH AND GM BASED ON THEM BEING THE MOST QUALIFIED TO DO THE ****ING JOB!!! If there is an issue with them not being able to communicate with the media, use the millions of dollars you make off this team for a translator.

Don't insult the fans of this team. What do you care about, icing the best product and winning, or listening to the :30 soundbyte? And don't put anymore emphasis on one league than another. Scout them all well. I don't care if my player is Jean-Guy Rubberboot or Comrade Gorbachev. Just be the best. Just win.

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12-18-2011, 09:37 AM
  #46
Le CH
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Our team is good enough on paper to beat anyone. And even if we rebuild, with the cap and everything, the best you can do in today's NHL is to build a pretty good team and hope for the best.
This. I don't understand why some people want to completely tear the team apart... getting rid of most of the vets and getting picks + prospects will not make this team better short-term and is far from certain to have medium to long term success either. We had a complete overhaul three years ago and now we are supposed to do it again - why? Is this what this fanbase wants... blow it up every 3 years if you haven't won a Stanley Cup. I say PG ignore the knee-jerk, emotional reactions being talked about and stay the course but tweek a few things ( bury Gomez in the minors ) although from his actions of the last couple of weeks, I think the media and EMO fans are getting to him.

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12-18-2011, 09:44 AM
  #47
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great post bro

took the words right out pf my mouth

team is a mish mash of s h i t , grossly overpaid

I really laugh when I read these posts that Cammy is a front liner , or the leadership of Gionta , etc....

are you guys finally convinced from my posts that Markov is done ? how many more seasons of Pleks giving you zero in the playoffs do u want to see ?

we have no front liners except Price , but this year he is good not great

the only way we make the playoffs is if he is GREAT

but for all you DD , Cole lovers or waiting for Cammy to turn around or thinking we are a retool job away from winning , keep drinking the kool aid folks

we have Eller who should be our second center playing bottom 6 minutes , while we are waiting for the midget in DD to carry us

I dont care what DD is doing , the dude is not a top 2 center and would be on the farm of most qualilty teams . Eller is bigger , faster , stronger , and given his linemates , pp time and minutes , surlely he can have 20 points by now
at least he can be a legit #2 center , DD ISNT

this needs an Olier tear down b4 this ship gets tuned around

first order of business at the trade line or sooner ( but it will never happen )

get what you can for Gio, Cammy, Gill, Moen , and Kosty and move on with picks
and some return of talent
we would need to take back some salary but hopefully it isnt too long term

we need a new philosophy with development , stop this BS of giving legit talent cup of coffee minutes on 4th lines and put them in a role they can succeed.

I have seen enough of Leblanc , the dude can play , put him on the top 6 on the wing , and put Gio on the 3rd line for a brief stint and see what he can do

Leblanc is our future , Gio at 33 soon isnt

and finally to the management team of the Habs

stop these BS 4-5 mil signings on just decent players like Cole , Spacek, etc , in the offseason who are not going to do anything for us

1- Agreed that Eller should be playing more time with some better wingers. A line of LL and AK would look pretty good.

2- After a few more games, send LL back to the AHL where is the man for all situations getting 20 mins a game. He'll come back next year stronger and more capable, especially now that he knows he can compete in the NHL. No need to rush him this year.

2a) That all said resign Kostitsyn to a 3 year deal in the 3.25M to 4M range

3- Trade deadline, this is the time that will tell us if we get any playoffs this year OR a proper re-tooling.

That said I would try to:

i) Move Gionta to New Jersey for Zubrus (cap reasons and adds some grit) + Nick Palmieri
ii) move Cammy to LAK for Penner (cap reasons) + 2012 1st + Maxim Kitsyn (we could likely convince him to come back)
iii)move Gill to Pens for 3rd (or a 2nd if you could push it up)
iv)move Moen and Campoli to anyone for a 2nd (for each)
v) move Weber+Kristo+2nd to NYI for Okposo+Anders Lee

NOTE: demote or Complicity buyout of Gomez after season...trade if anyone is desperate enough to take him

Now you have saved 24+M (if you do not resign Penner)
I am not holding my breath for Markov, and that lineup doesn't show any UFA signings


Your lineup now has more youth and size

AK - Pleks - Okposo
Pacioretty - Eller - Cole
DD - Zubrus - Palmieri / LL
UFA sign -Nokia - White

Kaberle - Gorges
Emelin - Subban
Mitera - Diaz


Price
Budaj

You can now use your money to resign your key guys and sign a UFA dman (Suter, Gleason, Grossman, Jackman,etc)

Your prospect pool loses Kristo, but adds

Maxim Kitsyn
Anders Lee
Nick Palmieri
and whoever is picked with the two 1st rounders and two 2nd rounders and two 3rd rounders (in the deepest draft since 2003)

Tinordi, Beaulieu both play a full season in Hamilton before seeing time in Montreal.
the team is no further ahead right away....but it sure isn't set back, and you just added a ton more youth and talent

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12-18-2011, 09:45 AM
  #48
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Tough to do a rebuild any time soon, the key for now is not to lose the key guys like Price and Subban. There will have to be a salary dump to keep those guys next year and the next wave of guys from the farm won't be ready for a couple of years. They should have a bunch of guys in two years (Beaulieu, Kristo, Gallagher, maybe Tinordi), but they traded too many picks for guys who are long gone to be able to go with youth.

I doubt that habs can get value for any of their old guys because the numbers aren't there this year. I noticed that ice time was spread a bit more evenly last night (Subban did not play 28 minutes, the 4th line got some time, not forward was out for huge minutes) and that could help in the 3rd going forward, but not last night.

The problem is if the vets continue to play badly there is no market for them. If they play like they should there is no need to get rid of them. Gomez pretty much has to go, and maybe Kaberle, just to keep the UFAs and RFAs (Eller, Kostitsyn, Gorges, Subban, Emelin, Diaz, maybe Moen, Campoli, Gill, Darche).

So many LDs again, too. Emelin looks bad on his wrong side, though less bad than some of the other guys switching and with more other issues.

The GMs need a plan that lasts more than two hours. Gainey's 2 hour re-build really locked the team in to a lot of long-term problems, and Gainey and Gauthier spent picks they needed to get guys they let go after a year. At least Martin won't run anyone else out of town.

Re-build looks iffy. If Ladouceur can get some accountability out of the vets and some trust from the young guys that he won't randomly bench them for hitting or scoring he may be able to get the team back on the rails. Once the team is winning there are some options. If Ladouceur is good with the young guys and can actually bench vets who are not trying there may be some hope. Especially if Gomez, Markov, and Gionta come back (and Gionta plays less than 20 minutes per game).

The team's record with Gomez and Spacek playing was actually pretty good. I would have given them a chance before going for Kaberle (though if he keeps up the current pace he is an asset).

Sigh the habs are one of the few options for teams dumping overpriced players. Who can the habs dump players to?

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Old
12-18-2011, 09:45 AM
  #49
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We should trade whatever it takes for Staal ! If we can't get an impact player through a trade, then, it makes sense to tank to get one. However, as of now, we have a bunch of contracts, so we're kind of stucked. The good timing for a rebuild was when we had Koivu and half the team going UFA. But it was the 100th, unfortunalty.

Price, Plekanec, Eller + whatever for Staal and Cam Ward. Maybe Carolina would like to have a change of scenery.

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12-18-2011, 09:58 AM
  #50
Le CH
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Originally Posted by FF de Mars View Post
We should trade whatever it takes for Staal ! If we can't get an impact player through a trade, then, it makes sense to tank to get one. However, as of now, we have a bunch of contracts, so we're kind of stucked. The good timing for a rebuild was when we had Koivu and half the team going UFA. But it was the 100th, unfortunalty.

Price, Plekanec, Eller + whatever for Staal and Cam Ward. Maybe Carolina would like to have a change of scenery.
Unfortunately, I actually think you are serious...



BTW, you actually believe that Staal @ $8.25m/year and Ward @ $6.3M/year is a value acquisition - really, tell me you forgot the

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