HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Cunneyworth's plans for the habs

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-18-2011, 10:21 PM
  #1
Serious HABit
Registered User
 
Serious HABit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Forum Ghosts
Country: Coral Sea Islands
Posts: 783
vCash: 500
Cunneyworth's plans for the habs

Didn't see this posted and I thought it was a great article at highlighting the contempt players had with martin due to his bench-younger-players-first mentality.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=607081"]http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=607081"]http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=607081

MONTREAL -- If there is one major difference to be seen from Randy Cunneyworth's first game behind the Montreal Canadiens bench, it was the smile on Lars Eller's face.

No, Eller was not pleased that his Canadiens blew yet another lead at home in Saturday night's 5-3 loss to the New Jersey Devils. But when he was asked to address the amount of ice time he received in the game, he couldn't help but grin.

After pretty frequent benchings under previous coach Jacques Martin, Eller was the center who received the second-most ice time against the Devils, behind only Tomas Plekanec. His 18:25 included 2:22 on the penalty kill, a role he saw only sparingly under Martin -- and Eller was also used at even strength more than any other forward on the Canadiens.

So, is that an encouraging sign?

[cont...]


Last edited by hototogisu: 12-18-2011 at 10:25 PM. Reason: don't post full articles
Serious HABit is offline  
Old
12-18-2011, 10:26 PM
  #2
Natural Habs Fan
Registered User
 
Natural Habs Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,022
vCash: 500
No kidding! Martin was a horrible coach and the exact opposite of what was needed.

Good luck Randy, I hope the xenophobes don't get to you before you get a chance!

Natural Habs Fan is offline  
Old
12-18-2011, 10:28 PM
  #3
SergeConstantin74
Always right.
 
SergeConstantin74's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,942
vCash: 50
One thing I hope from him is communication. Players these days are children, they need to get told how they have to lace their skates.

Our last two coaches lacked in the 'communication' part.

SergeConstantin74 is offline  
Old
12-18-2011, 10:28 PM
  #4
Frozenice
the random dude
 
Frozenice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,525
vCash: 500
Glad to hear, Martin's line changes were the thing that annoyed me the most about him.

Frozenice is offline  
Old
12-18-2011, 10:34 PM
  #5
Jigger77
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,324
vCash: 500
Major difference? Do people even bother looking things up before writing articles?

Eller's icetime has gradually been increasing. He had 18:23 in the game against Vanvouver. Same as last night. He was pretty much just shy of that the last few games.

He was also on the ice for 3 of NJ's goals.


Last edited by Jigger77: 12-18-2011 at 10:56 PM.
Jigger77 is offline  
Old
12-18-2011, 10:49 PM
  #6
MathMan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 17,097
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious HABit View Post
Didn't see this posted and I thought it was a great article at highlighting the contempt players had with martin due to his bench-younger-players-first mentality.
Interesting. This article blames Martin for tweaking the lines in game. I thought his lack of in-game adjustments was one of his major flaws?

Eller getting the most ES icetime of any Habs forward is also a radical change, seeing as we hadn't seen anything like that for all of one game. Eller had the most ES icetime of any Hab forward against Philly, too... (This situation that led directly to linemate Darche getting lots of ES icetime, which people wanted to fire Martin for. Ironically, Cunneyworth did pretty much the exact same thing next game, to no one's notice.) As for using him on the PK... I'm not sure why people would think it was a good idea to mess around with arguably the best PK in the league.

I do like the idea of giving players permanent roles, and I hope the injury situation actually allows Cunneyworth to do that. I do also like the idea of playing Leblanc more, especially at the expense of Nokelainen.

I'm curious about what those roles might be, but one can speculate. One thing the article didn't note was the change in usage of the Plekanec line, who were given a much more offensive role. That line may well be the foremost beneficiary of the coaching change; I'd say the prime beneficiary of that will be Cammy, who was ill-suited to his role as Plekanec's linemate and was being used there for lack of better options.

The one who'll probably get hurt the most by that change in role is DD; Martin's schema was pretty much built around creating favorable conditions for the DD line, but under Cunneyworth, they started in the defensive zone more often than not, as their O-zone faceoffs were funneled to the Plekanec line. (Frankly, I think that's a mistake if DD is going to be centering that line; he's not suited for a defensive role.)

MathMan is offline  
Old
12-18-2011, 10:55 PM
  #7
The Kremelin Wall*
the krEMELIN wall
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,769
vCash: 500
As a large Eller fan, it's nice to see him happy. He's going to be a big part of our future.

The Kremelin Wall* is offline  
Old
12-18-2011, 11:08 PM
  #8
shutehinside
Registered User
 
shutehinside's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,050
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jigger77 View Post
Major difference? Do people even bother looking things up before writing articles?

Eller's icetime has gradually been increasing. He had 18:23 in the game against Vanvouver. Same as last night. He was pretty much just shy of that the last few games.

He was also on the ice for 3 of NJ's goals.
Don't let the facts get in the way of a good story!

Seriously, Hab fans can't see any good in a person they've decided to condon. It's as if Martin was the worst coach to ever coach in the NHL and anything he ever did was the wrong decision no matter what. It's the definition of a lynching and Hab "fans" do it better than anyone else.

shutehinside is offline  
Old
12-18-2011, 11:18 PM
  #9
odishabs
Registered User
 
odishabs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,975
vCash: 500
Eller will be CLOSE to a PPG player one day.... book it

odishabs is offline  
Old
12-18-2011, 11:21 PM
  #10
Habs13
Registered User
 
Habs13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Montreal
Country: England
Posts: 5,363
vCash: 500
I think Cunnyworth might actually right this sinking ship!

Habs13 is offline  
Old
12-18-2011, 11:22 PM
  #11
Jigger77
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,324
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by shutehinside View Post
Don't let the facts get in the way of a good story!

Seriously, Hab fans can't see any good in a person they've decided to condon. It's as if Martin was the worst coach to ever coach in the NHL and anything he ever did was the wrong decision no matter what. It's the definition of a lynching and Hab "fans" do it better than anyone else.
No kidding. And it's not like it's hard to access this info.

Jigger77 is offline  
Old
12-18-2011, 11:22 PM
  #12
Habitant#1
Registered User
 
Habitant#1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Brisbane
Country: Australia
Posts: 1,422
vCash: 500
I always disliked Martin for making players, especially young players, feel like they have an axe dangling over their heads. Julien used to do this too, I wonder if he's still as rigid.

Habitant#1 is offline  
Old
12-18-2011, 11:34 PM
  #13
Miller Time
Registered User
 
Miller Time's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 8,316
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jigger77 View Post
Major difference? Do people even bother looking things up before writing articles?

Eller's icetime has gradually been increasing. He had 18:23 in the game against Vanvouver. Same as last night. He was pretty much just shy of that the last few games.

He was also on the ice for 3 of NJ's goals.
what we'll have to see is what happens to his ice time when the team is relatively healthy.

With Gomez/Gionta out, that he was getting more ice time under Martin doesn't say much, since even Martin would have a hard time justifying Eller playing so little with only guys like Blunden/Nokelainen/Darche as the alternatives.

I'm hoping that Cunneyworth is able to better recognize Eller's capacity to help the team in a consistent 17+min/game, even with a fully healthy lineup, as opposed to the 14-15min he was generally limited to under Martin unless injuries forced his hand.

The Boucher stats show Eller as basically equivalent to Gomez in terms of statistical effectiveness, given Eller's long-term value to the team, it would just make sense to keep him at his natural centre position, and move Gomez to the wings when he returns (or put him in a 4th line centre role?)

remains to be seen if Cunneyworth has the makeup to go that route... Martin clearly didn't.

perhaps Eller feeling that explains his noticeable happiness at the coaching change...

Miller Time is offline  
Old
12-18-2011, 11:37 PM
  #14
Jigger77
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,324
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
what we'll have to see is what happens to his ice time when the team is relatively healthy.

With Gomez/Gionta out, that he was getting more ice time under Martin doesn't say much, since even Martin would have a hard time justifying Eller playing so little with only guys like Blunden/Nokelainen/Darche as the alternatives.

I'm hoping that Cunneyworth is able to better recognize Eller's capacity to help the team in a consistent 17+min/game, even with a fully healthy lineup, as opposed to the 14-15min he was generally limited to under Martin unless injuries forced his hand.

The Boucher stats show Eller as basically equivalent to Gomez in terms of statistical effectiveness, given Eller's long-term value to the team, it would just make sense to keep him at his natural centre position, and move Gomez to the wings when he returns (or put him in a 4th line centre role?)

remains to be seen if Cunneyworth has the makeup to go that route... Martin clearly didn't.

perhaps Eller feeling that explains his noticeable happiness at the coaching change...
I like Eller, don't get me wrong. All I'm saying is that the premise of the article is false.

The extra 2 seconds made him smile in jubilation? After blowing a 3rd period lead again and being on the ice for 3 goals? I sure hope he wasn't grinning after that. And I suspect that given the "quality" of the report he may have grinned and the person who wrote this assumed a bunch of things without looking them up.

It's making **** up to justify an argument. Plain and simple.

Jigger77 is offline  
Old
12-18-2011, 11:38 PM
  #15
DekeLikeYouMeanIt
RIP
 
DekeLikeYouMeanIt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,608
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habitant#1 View Post
I always disliked Martin for making players, especially young players, feel like they have an axe dangling over their heads. Julien used to do this too, I wonder if he's still as rigid.
He did it to Seguin last year. He was terrible. Then he let the leash go and Seguin is doing what he's doing right now.

DekeLikeYouMeanIt is offline  
Old
12-18-2011, 11:44 PM
  #16
Jigger77
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,324
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsolument90 View Post
He did it to Seguin last year. He was terrible. Then he let the leash go and Seguin is doing what he's doing right now.
The whole winning the Stanley Cup part must have sucked for the fans after Julien benched a rookie. Hey didn't they have a thread wanting him canned with basically the same arguments people wanted JM fired for? Funny how that works.

Jigger77 is offline  
Old
12-18-2011, 11:47 PM
  #17
habtastic
Registered User
 
habtastic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Mumbai via MTL
Country: India
Posts: 9,264
vCash: 500
I also think Cunney is going to be good for us and maybe even good enough. The right amount of calm, the right amount of encouragement and I too don't need to see a Tortarella anger management incident from our coach. Just communication which he seems to do a lot of.

Unfortunately his tenure is going to be marred by the idiots who don't actually care about winning. Maybe the avatars should be changed from "He can coach....but can he speak French?" I find my avatar (not changed due to laziness) to be somewhat ironic in this particular respect.

habtastic is offline  
Old
12-18-2011, 11:49 PM
  #18
Madam Kadri
Fight, Troll, Score
 
Madam Kadri's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Maryland native
Country: United States
Posts: 7,117
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habitant#1 View Post
I always disliked Martin for making players, especially young players, feel like they have an axe dangling over their heads. Julien used to do this too, I wonder if he's still as rigid.
I wish Martin destroyed Seguin and Marchand. Then they wouldn't have rings.

Madam Kadri is offline  
Old
12-18-2011, 11:49 PM
  #19
JLP
La Sainte-Flanelle
 
JLP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 6,891
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
Interesting. This article blames Martin for tweaking the lines in game. I thought his lack of in-game adjustments was one of his major flaws?
Actually the article says "certain players – usually younger ones – would be benched in favor of veterans late in games, even if those veterans weren't necessarily playing a strong game." You call that "tweaking"?

Arpon Basu is pretty well respected. The article is about the new coach's plans: giving kids a chance, emphasizing roles and chemistry, and shunning negative reinforcement. Interesting indeed.

Go Habs Go !!!

JLP is offline  
Old
12-18-2011, 11:51 PM
  #20
elsubz
Registered User
 
elsubz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,946
vCash: 500
Mathieu Darche TOI against the devils....19:46 yeeeshh

elsubz is offline  
Old
12-18-2011, 11:53 PM
  #21
Miller Time
Registered User
 
Miller Time's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 8,316
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jigger77 View Post
The whole winning the Stanley Cup part must have sucked for the fans after Julien benched a rookie. Hey didn't they have a thread wanting him canned with basically the same arguments people wanted JM fired for? Funny how that works.
that would be the BIG difference, wouldn't it...


winning has a very interesting way of reinforcing decisions, and go figure, losing does just the opposite.


I don't think you'd see much critiquing (i won't say none, b/c someone is always unhappy about something) of Martin's use of Eller or other young players IF the team was winning...

but when you have a mediocre team, and you persist in favoring a guy who puts up mediocre production despite ample ice time/opportunities ahead of a young player who shows steady and consistent development in his game (not too mention the kind of intensity and effort lacking in the struggling vet), it should come as no surprise that the coache's decision making gets heavily scrutinized.


Let's not try to compare Julien, doing what he felt was right and succeeding, with Martin, doing what he felt was right and failing to the point that he got fired.

Miller Time is offline  
Old
12-18-2011, 11:53 PM
  #22
MathMan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 17,097
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JLP View Post
Actually the article says "certain players – usually younger ones – would be benched in favor of veterans late in games, even if those veterans weren't necessarily playing a strong game." You call that "tweaking"?
I was more referring to this passage: "Forward lines would change mid-game on a regular basis". Martin would make these in-game adjustments, and really, he won a few games because of them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JLP View Post
Arpon Basu is pretty well respected. The article is about the new coach's plans: giving kids a chance, emphasizing roles and chemistry, and shunning negative reinforcement. Interesting indeed.
I like Arpon. One of the most reasonable media folks there are. I think his contrasting of Cunneyworth with Martin is a bit off, however, I think he may be dramatizing for effect.

And while a piece like this has to be written positively, one could easily rephrase it it as "devaluing experience, emphasizing rigid roles, and deemphasizing accountability". It's all a balancing act. I hope Randy finds the right balance.


Last edited by MathMan: 12-18-2011 at 11:59 PM.
MathMan is offline  
Old
12-18-2011, 11:55 PM
  #23
Miller Time
Registered User
 
Miller Time's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 8,316
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JLP View Post
Actually the article says "certain players usually younger ones would be benched in favor of veterans late in games, even if those veterans weren't necessarily playing a strong game." You call that "tweaking"?

Arpon Basu is pretty well respected. The article is about the new coach's plans: giving kids a chance, emphasizing roles and chemistry, and shunning negative reinforcement. Interesting indeed.

Go Habs Go !!!
hey, why bother actually reacting to what an article says, when it's much easier to misinterpret it in a way that serves ones pre-conceived bias...

Basu clearly doesn't know his statistics well enough to be making the claims that he is

Miller Time is offline  
Old
12-19-2011, 12:01 AM
  #24
Jigger77
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,324
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
hey, why bother actually reacting to what an article says, when it's much easier to misinterpret it in a way that serves ones pre-conceived bias...

Basu clearly doesn't know his statistics well enough to be making the claims that he is
Where was he when Eller got the same icetime against the Canucks? Didn't hear to much praise for JM from him that night or from anyone else for that matter.

Jigger77 is offline  
Old
12-19-2011, 12:08 AM
  #25
SouthernHab
Not a Fanboy
 
SouthernHab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 11,208
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jigger77 View Post
Major difference? Do people even bother looking things up before writing articles?

Eller's icetime has gradually been increasing. He had 18:23 in the game against Vanvouver. Same as last night. He was pretty much just shy of that the last few games.

He was also on the ice for 3 of NJ's goals.
Let me guess.

If I asked you to defend the record of Gauthier as a GM, one of the first things you would say is that he brought in Eller.

Right?

Yet you kick him to the curb with the 3 goals comment.

Who cares if he was on the ice for 3 goals. He is still young. Martin would have benched him and he would forever be a tentative player.

Cunneyworth is showing that he understands that the way players learn and develop is to play through adversity.

SouthernHab is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:13 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.