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Flyers Nation reporting Predators scouting JVR and Read

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Old
12-18-2011, 09:48 PM
  #51
Left Circle OneTimer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Norm MacDonald View Post
He's on pace for 55 points, which would likely put him in at least the top 90 category. Your posts are exaggerated nonsense that paint him as a scrub.
Wow hes on pace for a few more points on an offense that's scoring goals at much higher rate than ever? High scoring teams will always inflate stats. Are you watching games? No way you can be watching games this season and say hes gotten any better. Hes actually gotten worse....

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Old
12-18-2011, 09:54 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Norm MacDonald View Post
Your posts are exaggerated nonsense that paint him as a scrub.
Well, my opinion is not that he's a scrub.

Like many others, I believe we're at a point where dealing him could do more for us than waiting for him to blossom. The risk/reward is right for us, in my opinion.

Is there some overwhelming evidence to the contrary that I'm missing?

To be frank, I'm even skeptical about his supposed 'breakout' in the playoffs last season. He pushed himself into the red for about 8 games and played at a level he could not maintain. Now, lo and behold, we're living through the 2011-2012 JVR breakout year that never was.

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12-18-2011, 09:54 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
I've been hard on JVR, but I don't think I'm ready to see him traded yet; who knows how Homer feels...considering he just gave him a healthy contract, I assume not. I also don't think Nashville is ready to trade Weber yet.
I agree with this, though if it's for a stud like Weber I think I do it. That's not saying I'm "giving up" on JvR, rather that among a group of young forwards and a lack of young quality D you trade from strength.

I wouldn't do it if it means renting pending UFA Suter...but for Weber I do. Assuming it's not JvR + Read + 2 1sts or some silliness.

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12-18-2011, 09:54 PM
  #54
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JVR+ for Weber? Yes
I love JVR, think he will be a future star power forward, but you simply have to take this deal. Weber is the best (bar none) all around defenseman in the NHL and a total horse who is capable of playing 25+ mins per night and not wearing down.

JVR for Suter? No.

Read for Suter? No.

If we're trading for a rental player (and that's what Suter is unless he signs an extension before the trade is completed), then you cannot know what his intentions are and need to treat him value-wise like he will only be on your team for 1 playoff run... especially when you have a team that's always right around the cap like the Flyers. If Suter plans to test FA and we trade big assets for him, it will come back to bite us.

I'd be willing to "overpay" for Suter in terms of draft picks or prospects since having him would kind of complete our roster needs (we'd be stacked w/ top-9 forwards all under the age of 25, we'd have 2 26 y/o top-4 defensemen, a 26 y/o #1 defenseman, and 2 #1 goalies)... but I'm not willing to trade a significant piece of our current roster for what could be a rental.

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12-18-2011, 09:57 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CTU2fan View Post
I agree with this, though if it's for a stud like Weber I think I do it. That's not saying I'm "giving up" on JvR, rather that among a group of young forwards and a lack of young quality D you trade from strength.

I wouldn't do it if it means renting pending UFA Suter...but for Weber I do. Assuming it's not JvR + Read + 2 1sts or some silliness.
Good points, sir/ma'am.

We do sort of have an impending debacle looming on defense.

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Old
12-18-2011, 09:58 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandlansd View Post
JVR for Suter? No.

Read for Suter? No.

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Old
12-18-2011, 10:00 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilkyMitts View Post
would you rather have jvr, or trade him + for a very reliable d man?
Obviously, it depends who the d-man is. Either way, that has no bearing on whether JVR is a good player.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Left Circle OneTimer View Post
Wow hes on pace for a few more points on an offense that's scoring goals at much higher rate than ever? High scoring teams will always inflate stats. Are you watching games? No way you can be watching games this season and say hes gotten any better. Hes actually gotten worse....
The team is high scoring because of secondary contributors like JVR. The theory that players have their stats inflated from playing on strong offensive teams is overly simplistic. Also, JVR regressed terribly after his injury, but I thought he's looked better and stronger the last couple games. Not that it's saying much, but he was possibly the most active Flyers forward against the Bruins yesterday (at least before it got out of control).

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Old
12-18-2011, 10:12 PM
  #58
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Is it bad that I would rather ditch JVR rather than Read...

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Old
12-18-2011, 10:17 PM
  #59
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you play for the logo on the front. not the name on the back..

i dont care who gets traded if it makes the Flyers a better team

of course there are players id rather stay and players ud like to see go.

but if JVR has to go to bring us a stud D men in return so be it.

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Old
12-18-2011, 10:41 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Norm MacDonald View Post
He's on pace for 55 points, which would likely put him in at least the top 90 category. Your posts are exaggerated nonsense that paint him as a scrub.
Theres more to playing the game then points... especially since we will be paying a MAYBE 50 point player 4 mil +.

We are paying for potential. How long do we have to wait before he hits his stride? This is his third year are we are still being told to be patient on our 2nd overall pick. We have to wait 5 years? 7?

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Old
12-18-2011, 10:57 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Readyrock View Post
Well, my opinion is not that he's a scrub.

Like many others, I believe we're at a point where dealing him could do more for us than waiting for him to blossom. The risk/reward is right for us, in my opinion.

Is there some overwhelming evidence to the contrary that I'm missing?

To be frank, I'm even skeptical about his supposed 'breakout' in the playoffs last season. He pushed himself into the red for about 8 games and played at a level he could not maintain. Now, lo and behold, we're living through the 2011-2012 JVR breakout year that never was.

JVR has played 179 RS games and has 93 pts
In his first 179 games Carter had 100 pts
In his first 179 games Richards had 112 pts

JVR's 93 pts were earned while having significantly less es and pp minutes than Carter or Richards had during their first 179 games.

Also, there is an old adage, that it takes power forwards a little longer to mature...this can be true as bigger players need to grow into their frame before they can dominate an adult league physically like they could at younger levels. Given these factors and considering the route JVR took to the pros (college vs. Junior hockey) and it's way too early to make conclusions about his NHL potential. We need another season or two before we'll know what his ceiling is going to look like imo. He's shown flashes of greatness at 22, that should become more consistently present as he matures and develops. That said, if Weber is to be had for him in the right deal, then so long JVR.

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Old
12-18-2011, 11:03 PM
  #62
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Is JVR really a power forward?

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Old
12-18-2011, 11:07 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nitroglycerin View Post
Is JVR really a power forward?

He's still only 22 years old, tall, and lanky as ****. He needs at least 2 more seasons to build up more muscle and probably the same amount to mentally put it all together as well.

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Old
12-18-2011, 11:07 PM
  #64
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The source(s) appear to not be valid per site rules, and the JVR debate has certainly went on in other threads.


If someone credible mentions this, it will be re-opened.

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