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12-18-2011, 11:39 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by Zenith View Post
Who else is going to play? Zuccarello is hurt, only other player I could see getting a callup. No thanks to Deveaux or Newbury.

When healthy, Avery is a great 12th/13th forward to have around. If he's on your 4th line, you have pretty good depth, because Avery is a pretty good hockey player. Christensen is absolute waiver fodder (yes, Avery was waived, but, honestly, I just think Torts is out to lunch on this).
Avery played very well for a few games, then became mostly invisible.

Just like John Mitchell. But because of who Avery is people are willing to ignore that while they get on other guys like that.

I can't wait until we have a guy like Fasth or Miller on the bottom 6 developing so we don't have to play either of them.

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12-18-2011, 11:40 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by chip chipperson View Post
i know its not even close. because he has triple dubinsky's goal total. see, not even close.

im not comparing who is better at what head to head. but who is having the better season so far.
Yeah he also had triple Dubinsky's goal total last year!

Wait, are you telling me Dubi DIDN'T score 1 goal last year?

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12-18-2011, 11:41 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by chip chipperson View Post
i know its not even close. because he has triple dubinsky's goal total. see, not even close.

im not comparing who is better at what head to head. but who is having the better season so far.
So, just for the record, what you're telling me is that Sean Avery is a better, more effective player than Brandon Dubinsky?

Just to be clear here.

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12-18-2011, 11:41 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Callagraves View Post
I expect Torts' logic would be that he doesn't expect either of them to make a difference at even strength, but Christensen has the shootout specialty, an area where we've been weak this year.

I don't necessarily agree with the decision to play EC, but i can see why.
This team hasn't been in enough shootouts this season to warrant playing a player who is worthless for 60 minutes. It's odd when people who dislike Avery around here (our coach included) honestly try and act like playing a worthless player on the odd chance he might score in a shootout makes more sense than playing a solid bottom 6 hockey player.

I've said this for a long time and it's the only legitimate angle Torts can use with Sean. He's not a good defensive hockey player. He never has been and because he knows what he does well (using his speed to get in deep on the forecheck and be the first to the puck) he often cheats when the puck is in the d-zone.

The problem is, this doesn't happen nearly enough for him to kept out of the lineup. Coaches are going to shorten the bench when they have a lead late to hold a lead, and you can bet Avery won't be on the ice in those situations. But that doesn't mean he shouldn't be getting 10 minutes a game. There shouldn't be a forward on this team w/ EC out of the lineup that isn't getting a regular shift.

For people who adore this head coach and claim he's the King of accountability and rewards players based on results, it seems fairly odd that they could simultaneously support the idea of not playing Avery based on the results he's given us with the ice time he's had. Hypocritical? To say the least. But that fits right in with their Torts line of thinking. Then again, they're the same ones who will argue now this season (after last year it was the "he only scored three goalssss LOLOLOLOLOL" nonsense) his three goals are meaningless even given the limited games and ice time and that if you look at the rest of the time (by that they mean the games where he gets five minutes of ice time) that he hasn't warranted being in the lineup.

The arguments just get brighter and brighter it seems.

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12-18-2011, 11:41 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
Avery played very well for a few games, then became mostly invisible.

Just like John Mitchell. But because of who Avery is people are willing to ignore that while they get on other guys like that.

I can't wait until we have a guy like Fasth or Miller on the bottom 6 developing so we don't have to play either of them.
Avery became invisible one his ice time was reduced to 4-5 minutes. He's effective when he's getting closer to 8/9/10, which is the amount he roughly should be playing.

I don't see anyone getting on Mitchell, either. He's played well in his role as a 3rd/4th line player. Good along the boards, solid defensively, can win faceoffs. I'm fine with him getting the minutes he's getting given the current state of the roster...but I'd rather Avery be getting these minutes.

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12-18-2011, 11:43 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
Yeah he also had triple Dubinsky's goal total last year!

Wait, are you telling me Dubi DIDN'T score 1 goal last year?
well hater, what does last year have to do with the point i was making. avery has triple dubinsky's goals right now in far less games. yes or no?

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12-18-2011, 11:44 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Zenith View Post
Avery became invisible one his ice time was reduced to 4-5 minutes. He's effective when he's getting closer to 8/9/10, which is the amount he roughly should be playing.

I don't see anyone getting on Mitchell, either. He's played well in his role as a 3rd/4th line player. Good along the boards, solid defensively, can win faceoffs. I'm fine with him getting the minutes he's getting given the current state of the roster...but I'd rather Avery be getting these minutes.
I'm pretty sure you were one of them! I don't mean like personally attacking, like people do with EC, but people have been starting to pull the "yeah he's starting to slow down, he's doing x when he used to do y, etc" card.

I'd rather Avery be getting the minutes over EC- but i'd rather neither of them were on the roster and the Avery cheering squad has become progressively more annoying as i've been on this forum longer, which is why I always find myself dragged into these threads.

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12-18-2011, 11:44 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Callagraves View Post
So, just for the record, what you're telling me is that Sean Avery is a better, more effective player than Brandon Dubinsky?

Just to be clear here.
just to be clear, avery has 3 goals this year and dubinsky has 1. and dubinsky has played every game this year. is that clear? whose not getting this?

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12-18-2011, 11:45 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by ruckus View Post
This team hasn't been in enough shootouts this season to warrant playing a player who is worthless for 60 minutes. It's odd when people who dislike Avery around here (our coach included) honestly try and act like playing a worthless player on the odd chance he might score in a shootout makes more sense than playing a solid bottom 6 hockey player.

I've said this for a long time and it's the only legitimate angle Torts can use with Sean. He's not a good defensive hockey player. He never has been and because he knows what he does well (using his speed to get in deep on the forecheck and be the first to the puck) he often cheats when the puck is in the d-zone.

The problem is, this doesn't happen nearly enough for him to kept out of the lineup. Coaches are going to shorten the bench when they have a lead late to hold a lead, and you can bet Avery won't be on the ice in those situations. But that doesn't mean he shouldn't be getting 10 minutes a game. There shouldn't be a forward on this team w/ EC out of the lineup that isn't getting a regular shift.

For people who adore this head coach and claim he's the King of accountability and rewards players based on results, it seems fairly odd that they could simultaneously support the idea of not playing Avery based on the results he's given us with the ice time he's had. Hypocritical? To say the least. But that fits right in with their Torts line of thinking. Then again, they're the same ones who will argue now this season (after last year it was the "he only scored three goalssss LOLOLOLOLOL" nonsense) his three goals are meaningless even given the limited games and ice time and that if you look at the rest of the time (by that they mean the games where he gets five minutes of ice time) that he hasn't warranted being in the lineup.

The arguments just get brighter and brighter it seems.
Please re-read the last line of the comment you responded to.


MY SPECULATION TO TORT'S REASONING

Not my decisions.

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12-18-2011, 11:46 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Zenith View Post
I am not an Avery fan. I've made that much clear.

But that doesn't change my overall opinion on his caliber as an NHLer. He is a much better NHLer than either of Christensen or Mitchell at this point, and keeping him out of the lineup to play Christensen is detrimental to the club. I don't understand it. Say whatever you want, but this team is better when he is in the lineup as opposed to a player like Christensen. It's that simple. Doing what is best for the team - and Torts ain't doing that by scratching Avery with the current roster.
I agree with this assessment and I AM an Avery fan. I hate to go this route but it's obvious Tortorella doesn't like Avery which is why he doesn't play. Right before he was scratched, his minutes were reduced to 4 or 5 minutes a game for really no reason at all. Sean wasn't lighting the world on fire by any means but I thought he played alright for the most part. What is the point in playing a guy 4 or 5 minutes if you aren't gonna play him? Then you go and insert EC who does absolutely nothing and he is given chance after chance including PP time? It just doesn't make any sense.

If you want to say Avery doesn't fit into the lineup when Wolski comes back and the team is fully healthy, I agree. Hagelin has earned a spot and there simply isn't a place to fit in Avery unless you wanna scratch a guy like Rupp for a game. But as the team is right now, there's no reason for Mitchell and EC to be playing over Avery. This is my biggest gripe with Torts, he falls in love with certain players and ***** on others.

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12-18-2011, 11:46 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by chip chipperson View Post
well hater, what does last year have to do with the point i was making. avery has triple dubinsky's goals right now in far less games. yes or no?
The point that you're making is wrong. Do you really think they're comparable at all this season? They're both overpaid, except Avery has 3 points and Dubi has 13.

But when Avery's not getting the assists it doesn't matter, right? Right. That's how it is with the cheering squad.

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12-18-2011, 11:47 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by chip chipperson View Post
well hater, what does last year have to do with the point i was making. avery has triple dubinsky's goals right now in far less games. yes or no?
Dubinsky also has 12 times the assists that Avery does. 4 times the amount of points and another. He also kills penalties. Avery doesn't.

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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
I'm pretty sure you were one of them! I don't mean like personally attacking, like people do with EC, but people have been starting to pull the "yeah he's starting to slow down, he's doing x when he used to do y, etc" card.

I'd rather Avery be getting the minutes over EC- but i'd rather neither of them were on the roster and the Avery cheering squad has become progressively more annoying as i've been on this forum longer, which is why I always find myself dragged into these threads.
I'm not a big Mitchell fan, but I'm fine with him in the current roster situation as I've said. He's nothing special, but he's fine as an injury fill-in or a fourth liner. Like Avery. But I'd say Avery is superior.

I don't see why Avery doesn't belong on the roster, he's a pretty damn solid bottom-6 player that can fill in on the top-6 competently in the case of a slump and/or injury, so long he isn't planted there.

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12-18-2011, 11:48 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
The point that you're making is wrong. Do you really think they're comparable at all this season? They're both overpaid, except Avery has 3 points and Dubi has 13.

But when Avery's not getting the assists it doesn't matter, right? Right. That's how it is with the cheering squad.
When one makes the arguement that Avery > Dubinsky, you know that there's no point in arguing.

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12-18-2011, 11:48 PM
  #114
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Please re-read the last line of the comment you responded to.


MY SPECULATION TO TORT'S REASONING

Not my decisions.
My last comment isn't directed to any particular statement you made but a general comment. The paragraph I wrote before the statement is my proof of why that sarcastic comment is accurate.

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12-18-2011, 11:50 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
The point that you're making is wrong. Do you really think they're comparable at all this season? They're both overpaid, except Avery has 3 points and Dubi has 13.

But when Avery's not getting the assists it doesn't matter, right? Right. That's how it is with the cheering squad.
in every aspect no, but you didnt answer my question hater. who has more goals right now and who has played more games? this is what haters do. dubi isn't here to get 4 goals and 40 assists. hes here to go at least 20-25/30. and avery right now has more goals than him. yea sounds like a guy that should be scratched.

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12-18-2011, 11:50 PM
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
I'm pretty sure you were one of them! I don't mean like personally attacking, like people do with EC, but people have been starting to pull the "yeah he's starting to slow down, he's doing x when he used to do y, etc" card.

I'd rather Avery be getting the minutes over EC- but i'd rather neither of them were on the roster and the Avery cheering squad has become progressively more annoying as i've been on this forum longer, which is why I always find myself dragged into these threads.
The cheering squad goes both ways as people who hate Avery make it known as well. It seems like people can't handle the fact that others want to see their favorite players in the lineup over other players.

I agree with most that the debate is pretty miniscule since it's over basically the 12th forward spot but I just want to see the best possible lineup out on the ice for the game. Having EC or Mitchell in over Avery isn't doing that.

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12-18-2011, 11:50 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Zenith View Post
Dubinsky also has 12 times the assists that Avery does. 4 times the amount of points and another. He also kills penalties. Avery doesn't.



I'm not a big Mitchell fan, but I'm fine with him in the current roster situation as I've said. He's nothing special, but he's fine as an injury fill-in or a fourth liner. Like Avery. But I'd say Avery is superior.

I don't see why Avery doesn't belong on the roster, he's a pretty damn solid bottom-6 player that can fill in on the top-6 competently in the case of a slump and/or injury, so long he isn't planted there.
I don't disagree.

I think next season we need an upgrade. If the whole argument here is that he has 3 goals compared to Dubinsky's 1 and also plays a solid all around game, then the bottom 6 needs an upgrade.

I don't have a problem with Avery on the roster this season, even though I want to get an upgrade next off-season. I do have a problem, like I said, with the cheering squad. An Avery thread like this pops up every 2 or so weeks and i'm sick of it.

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12-18-2011, 11:51 PM
  #118
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My last comment isn't directed to any particular statement you made but a general comment. The paragraph I wrote before the statement is my proof of why that sarcastic comment is accurate.
Alright, just wanted to make sure i wasn't being lambasted because of your issues with Torts. I enjoy a lively hockey debate, but we're all Rangers fans here.

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12-18-2011, 11:51 PM
  #119
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When one makes the arguement that Avery > Dubinsky, you know that there's no point in arguing.
who made that argument? all i said was avery has 3 goals and dubinsky has 1. haters just coming up with stuff tonight.

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12-18-2011, 11:51 PM
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Originally Posted by chip chipperson View Post
in every aspect no, but you didnt answer my question hater. who has more goals right now and who has played more games? this is what haters do. dubi isn't here to get 4 goals and 40 assists. hes here to go at least 20-25/30. and avery right now has more goals than him. yea sounds like a guy that should be scratched.
Avery has TWO more goals then him.

Not 5, not 10.

2.

He has three goals.

I'm not saying your point is wrong, i'm saying it's stupid.

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12-18-2011, 11:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Zenith View Post
Dubinsky also has 12 times the assists that Avery does. 4 times the amount of points and another. He also kills penalties. Avery doesn't.



I'm not a big Mitchell fan, but I'm fine with him in the current roster situation as I've said. He's nothing special, but he's fine as an injury fill-in or a fourth liner. Like Avery. But I'd say Avery is superior.

I don't see why Avery doesn't belong on the roster, he's a pretty damn solid bottom-6 player that can fill in on the top-6 competently in the case of a slump and/or injury, so long he isn't planted there.
yea i know this. all i said was avery has more goals, does he not? and isn't dubi a goal scorer?

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12-18-2011, 11:53 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by chip chipperson View Post
in every aspect no, but you didnt answer my question hater. who has more goals right now and who has played more games? this is what haters do. dubi isn't here to get 4 goals and 40 assists. hes here to go at least 20-25/30. and avery right now has more goals than him. yea sounds like a guy that should be scratched.
Oh, spare me and everyone else the "hater" crap. Avery doesn't belong on the roster over Dubinsky, any objective fan of the team would agree. And I am a known detractor of Dubinsky.

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I don't disagree.

I think next season we need an upgrade. If the whole argument here is that he has 3 goals compared to Dubinsky's 1 and also plays a solid all around game, then the bottom 6 needs an upgrade.

I don't have a problem with Avery on the roster this season, even though I want to get an upgrade next off-season. I do have a problem, like I said, with the cheering squad. An Avery thread like this pops up every 2 or so weeks and i'm sick of it.
I don't disagree myself. This team has depth in the pipeline and an abundance of bottom-6 players. I'd like to see Avery replaced with a bigger player. I'm not a big believer of "size", but the top-6 is pretty soft and small. Having Boyle, Rupp, and another big guy in the bottom-6 would be pretty intimidating. Great in the playoffs.

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12-18-2011, 11:53 PM
  #123
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If Avery were to play tuesday, i wouldn't be up in arms. We're injured.

On a healthy, 2011-2012 New York Rangers, I maintain there is no need or place for Sean Avery

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12-18-2011, 11:53 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
The point that you're making is wrong. Do you really think they're comparable at all this season? They're both overpaid, except Avery has 3 points and Dubi has 13.

But when Avery's not getting the assists it doesn't matter, right? Right. That's how it is with the cheering squad.
Well no. Because people like you told us that assists don't matter and only the fact that Sean Avery scored three goals last year did. Pretty sure that was the entire point he was trying to make. You guys who have been around for these conversations forever should be able to pick up on these things. Pretty sure he knows that Avery is no where near the player that Dubi is. The problem is when we all tried to make this argument (and still currently are because our coach is clueless when it comes to this) last season about him being a better overall hockey player than people in the line up all that ever came back was how he only scored three goals.

If you're going to get on him about making the comparison to Dubinsky, you should realize that wasting your time trying to argue with people whose gripe is that Erik Christensen is in the lineup over him makes you look pretty foolish. Unless you honestly think that Christensen is a better hockey player than Avery.

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12-18-2011, 11:54 PM
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[QUOTE=BlueshirtBlitz;41169603]Avery has TWO more goals then him.

Not 5, not 10.

2.

He has three goals.

I'm not saying your point is wrong, i'm saying it's stupid.[/QUOTE

why is it stupid hater? is it stupid because it shows avery is off to a good start?

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