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Dean Lombardi's Transactions since 2006

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Old
12-18-2011, 09:40 PM
  #51
Nex06
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
I know, hindsight helps my argument,
I am sorry, but hindsight seems to be your only argument here. You are trying to prove something that shows Lombardi as being bad (at least) at one of the GM's responsibilities and yet you fail to explain, why have other GM's done the same. Just go one by one, from one GM to another and explain why they haven't picked Giroux when they had an opportunity. Sure it's easy enough with Johnson, Toews, Staal and couple of other players. But you would have problems with most of the rest. And when you do that, explain for every pick why Milan Lucic was not picked. So the only thing that this could prove is, that Lombardi is not better than other GM's when it comes to drafting. Nothing else.

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12-19-2011, 12:13 AM
  #52
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Lombardi's strength is drafting goalies, d-men, and power forwards...he very rarely drafts high end talent. That is troubling. It is even more troubling he favors 1-2 junior leagues. That makes me mad hearing he passed on Giroux for Trevor Lewis?

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12-19-2011, 12:19 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Johnny Utah View Post
Lombardi's strength is drafting goalies, d-men, and power forwards...he very rarely drafts high end talent. That is troubling. It is even more troubling he favors 1-2 junior leagues. That makes me mad hearing he passed on Giroux for Trevor Lewis?
That's the nature of the draft. Sometimes guys reach potential sometimes they don't. You can't predict how good a player is going to be 5 years down the line. If GMs knew how good he was going to be he would have gone a lot higher than he did.

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12-19-2011, 12:27 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Jaygokings View Post
Thanks on the 'Nice edit" appreciate it.



so what you're saying..is you can't get a Crosby unless you have the top overall pick. Thanks. I didn't know that.
How many top end elite forwards challenging for the scoring race the past few years were taken outside the top 5?

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12-19-2011, 12:35 AM
  #55
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I'm not sure if anyone else mentioned this but the move that always stands out in my mind is the removal of Al Murray and replacing the scouting staff. That's when we started to routinely draft 2nd rounders and they would routinely have a shot at the NHL level and be a decent player.

Also, a lot of the lists of players that could be drafted, I think we should ignore the anomaly year, the one crazy draft when we drafted Brown and everyone got one or two stars.

- R

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12-19-2011, 10:15 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Rorschach View Post
I'm not sure if anyone else mentioned this but the move that always stands out in my mind is the removal of Al Murray and replacing the scouting staff. That's when we started to routinely draft 2nd rounders and they would routinely have a shot at the NHL level and be a decent player.
I'm soooo very tired of "decent" players.

When are the GREAT players drafted by DL gonna show up?

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12-19-2011, 10:27 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
The one selection that will irk me to no end is the drafting of Trevor Lewis ahead of Claude Giroux in 2006. You know Lombardi and his staff would never make that pick for a couple of reasons, one being that Giroux played in the QMJHL.
The guy they had just finished drafting like 20 minutes earlier was from the QMJHL.

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Originally Posted by kingpest19 View Post
How many top end elite forwards challenging for the scoring race the past few years were taken outside the top 5?
These are players drafted outside the top five picks in a draft who have finished top five in league scoring since the lockout:

2010-2011:
Martin St. Louis, 2nd overall, 99 points (never drafted)
Corey Perry, 3rd overall, 98 points (23rd overall, 2003)

2008-2009:
Pavel Datsyuk, 4th overall, 97 points (171st overall, 1998)
Zach Parise 5th overall, 94 points (17th overall, 2003)

2007-2008:
Jarome Iginla, 3rd overall, 98 points (11th overall, 1995)
Pavel Datsyuk, 4th overall, 97 points (171st overall, 1998)

2006-2007:
Martin St. Louis, 5th, 102 points (never drafted)

2005-2006:

Daniel Alfredsson, 5th, 103 points (133rd overall, 1994)

So 22 of the 30 top scorers over the last six years (the top five from each year) are top five draft picks. Certainly drafting that high helps your efforts, but it doesn't mean a player drafted outside of the top five can't be a top scorer in the league.

As for my opinion of DL, overall I give him a pass. Even if DL was fired today, even if we missed the playoffs this year, few can deny he's built a very sturdy foundation. We have a great one-two punch at centre (Kopitar and Richards) and in net (Quick and Bernier) and have one of the better defenses 1-7 in the league. We also have a large number of NHL ready or solid NHL likely prospects, ranging from Muzzin to Toffoli and Jones.

Another thing I think people in this thread are overlooking is DL's cap management. We are up against the cap this season, but this is the first year that has happened, and he's done it without locking us into any NMC/NTC's which is unheard of in the NHL. The lone NMC we have is from Richards, and DL traded for that, not signed him to it. It might be gone now, as some have suggested if a player is traded before that clause kicks in it becomes invalid (not sure how true that is).

He also has the bulk of our core locked up long-term and, outside of Doughty, he has done it on deals which many of us thought the player wouldn't sign for (Johnson and Brown for example).

DL's problem is the same as in SJ. He doesn't go outside of his comfort zone enough. This is evident at the draft, when he rarely goes for the high risk high reward types of players outside of the late rounds, when most of them are gone. He rarely hires staff/personal outside of his comfort zone (see Murray and Sutter and Hextall). He also rarely goes for the big trade unless he knows he's winning (the Penner trade is an exception).

Playing it safe is a great way to get the team to where they are now; literally a rock solid team which has the talent and ability to be a perennial playoff team and a dark horse cup contender. That's what he built in San Jose as well. But DL is unwilling to step outside that comfort zone enough to make a major impact on what is a problem with his system, namely offense. While Richards was a big offensive minded pick up, DL has only one other time stepped up to make a big acquisition for offense, that being Selanne in San Jose. Other than that, DL has tried to add secondary offense in trades (Williams, Smyth, Penner) or in free agency (Nagy) but never able to land the big fish (Kovalchuk, Gaborik, Hossa).

Until DL is willing to go for broke on a deal or two, we'll always be a very solid, sound team that will finish anywhere from 9th to 4th in the conference and give someone a run, winning a round here or there. But outside of a Calgary Flames 2004 type of run, we'll never be a cup threat.

DL gets a 7-7.5/10 in my book. His lack of openmindedness to outside people (who never played for/coached for/worked with DL), questionable free agent signings and his to close to the vest playing of his cards prevents him from being one of the elite GM's in the league. We will always have a good team with DL at the helm, but I question if we'll ever have a cup team.

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Old
12-19-2011, 10:38 AM
  #58
Ziggy Stardust
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nex06 View Post
I am sorry, but hindsight seems to be your only argument here. You are trying to prove something that shows Lombardi as being bad (at least) at one of the GM's responsibilities and yet you fail to explain, why have other GM's done the same. Just go one by one, from one GM to another and explain why they haven't picked Giroux when they had an opportunity. Sure it's easy enough with Johnson, Toews, Staal and couple of other players. But you would have problems with most of the rest. And when you do that, explain for every pick why Milan Lucic was not picked. So the only thing that this could prove is, that Lombardi is not better than other GM's when it comes to drafting. Nothing else.
The only other way to look at it is to judge Lombardi's draft from the results they have garnered.

Since 2006, the Kings have had 49 draft selections. Of those, 12 have played in the NHL, those 10 players are:

Jonathan Bernier
Trevor Lewis
Dwight King
Alec Martinez
Wayne Simmonds
Oscar Moller
Drew Doughty
Andrei Loktionov
Viatcheslav Voynov
Colten Teubert
Kyle Clifford
Brayden Schenn

Three of those 12 have been traded (Schenn, Teubert, Simmonds), one is currently playing in Europe (Moller), and another in the minors (King). The seven others are currently on the Kings roster. From that group of seven drafted players on the roster, three are forwards. Of those three, only one player could be labeled as a highly skilled forward, and that's Andrei Loktionov.

Here's a position breakdown of the 49 draft selections of the Kings since Lombardi took over in 2006:

29 Forwards
15 Defensemen
5 Goaltenders

I'll break it down further round by round to see if Lombardi and his staff have any tendencies when it comes to making picks in each round:

Round 1:
2 Forwards
4 Defensemen
1 Goalie

Round 2:
4 Forwards
2 Defensemen
1 Goalie

Round 3:
7 Forwards
2 Defensemen
1 Goalie

Round 4:
3 Forwards
2 Defensemen
1 Goalie

Round 5:
4 Forwards
3 Defenemen
1 Goalie

Round 6:
4 Forwards
1 Defenseman

Round 7:
5 Forwards
1 Defenseman

And some numbers of what leagues the Kings have drafted from:


WHL:
8 Forwards
2 Defensemen
1 Goalie

OHL:
8 Forwards
4 Defensemen

QMJHL:
1 Forward
2 Defensemen
3 Goalies

US:
8 Forwards
3 Defensemen
1 Goalie

Other Junior Leagues:
1 Forward
1 Defenseman

Europe:
3 Forwards
3 Defensemen


Last edited by Ziggy Stardust: 12-19-2011 at 11:00 AM.
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Old
12-19-2011, 10:41 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by kingsfan View Post
The guy they had just finished drafting like 20 minutes earlier was from the QMJHL.
You know I meant to say forwards. Since Lombardi took over in 2006, only 5 players have been selected from the QMJHL, two were goalies (Bernier, Gibson), two were defensemen (Deslauriers, Ryan), and one was a forward taken in the 7th round (Matt Fillier). Even with the Sharks, Lombardi rarely selected from the Q.

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12-19-2011, 10:54 AM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingsfan View Post
The guy they had just finished drafting like 20 minutes earlier was from the QMJHL.



These are players drafted outside the top five picks in a draft who have finished top five in league scoring since the lockout:

2010-2011:
Martin St. Louis, 2nd overall, 99 points (never drafted)
Corey Perry, 3rd overall, 98 points (23rd overall, 2003)

2008-2009:
Pavel Datsyuk, 4th overall, 97 points (171st overall, 1998)
Zach Parise 5th overall, 94 points (17th overall, 2003)

2007-2008:
Jarome Iginla, 3rd overall, 98 points (11th overall, 1995)
Pavel Datsyuk, 4th overall, 97 points (171st overall, 1998)

2006-2007:
Martin St. Louis, 5th, 102 points (never drafted)

2005-2006:

Daniel Alfredsson, 5th, 103 points (133rd overall, 1994)

So 22 of the 30 top scorers over the last six years (the top five from each year) are top five draft picks. Certainly drafting that high helps your efforts, but it doesn't mean a player drafted outside of the top five can't be a top scorer in the league. As for my opinion of DL, overall I give him a pass. Even if DL was fired today, even if we missed the playoffs this year, few can deny he's built a very sturdy foundation. We have a great one-two punch at centre (Kopitar and Richards) and in net (Quick and Bernier) and have one of the better defenses 1-7 in the league. We also have a large number of NHL ready or solid NHL likely prospects, ranging from Muzzin to Toffoli and Jones.

Another thing I think people in this thread are overlooking is DL's cap management. We are up against the cap this season, but this is the first year that has happened, and he's done it without locking us into any NMC/NTC's which is unheard of in the NHL. The lone NMC we have is from Richards, and DL traded for that, not signed him to it. It might be gone now, as some have suggested if a player is traded before that clause kicks in it becomes invalid (not sure how true that is).

He also has the bulk of our core locked up long-term and, outside of Doughty, he has done it on deals which many of us thought the player wouldn't sign for (Johnson and Brown for example).

DL's problem is the same as in SJ. He doesn't go outside of his comfort zone enough. This is evident at the draft, when he rarely goes for the high risk high reward types of players outside of the late rounds, when most of them are gone. He rarely hires staff/personal outside of his comfort zone (see Murray and Sutter and Hextall). He also rarely goes for the big trade unless he knows he's winning (the Penner trade is an exception).

Playing it safe is a great way to get the team to where they are now; literally a rock solid team which has the talent and ability to be a perennial playoff team and a dark horse cup contender. That's what he built in San Jose as well. But DL is unwilling to step outside that comfort zone enough to make a major impact on what is a problem with his system, namely offense. While Richards was a big offensive minded pick up, DL has only one other time stepped up to make a big acquisition for offense, that being Selanne in San Jose. Other than that, DL has tried to add secondary offense in trades (Williams, Smyth, Penner) or in free agency (Nagy) but never able to land the big fish (Kovalchuk, Gaborik, Hossa). Until DL is willing to go for broke on a deal or two, we'll always be a very solid, sound team that will finish anywhere from 9th to 4th in the conference and give someone a run, winning a round here or there. But outside of a Calgary Flames 2004 type of run, we'll never be a cup threat.

DL gets a 7-7.5/10 in my book. His lack of openmindedness to outside people (who never played for/coached for/worked with DL), questionable free agent signings and his to close to the vest playing of his cards prevents him from being one of the elite GM's in the league. We will always have a good team with DL at the helm, but I question if we'll ever have a cup team.
I was just pointing out that there arent many guys picked outside the top 5 who become leading scorers in the league. Its a very rare thing for that to happen but yet its used as an argument against Lombardi and his drafting. Its not like theres a bunch of guys outside the top 5 in their draft class competing for the scoring title every year.

Once again thats just not DL being able to land those guys. 29 other GMs didnt sign them, does that make them unwilling to make a major impact? Every west coast GM has problem signing big name elite players. When was the last time an elite player signed on the west coast as a free agent?

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12-19-2011, 10:55 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
You know I meant to say forwards. Since Lombardi took over in 2006, only 5 players have been selected from the QMJHL, two were goalies (Bernier, Gibson), two were defensemen (Deslauriers, Ryan), and one was a forward taken in the 7th round (Matt Fillier). Even with the Sharks, Lombardi rarely selected from the Q.
Then that makes sense.

I'm unsure why he's so adverse to select forwards from the Q. Defensemen I get, I mean the Q is hardly a defensive fortress and doesn't produce nearly the same number of level of defensemen the WHL and OHL does, but if I wanted a goalscorer, I'm looking pretty hard at the Q. Maybe it's just the way the draft has worked out for the Kings that the top guy on their list just happens to not be from the Q?

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12-19-2011, 11:02 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by kingpest19 View Post
I was just pointing out that there arent many guys picked outside the top 5 who become leading scorers in the league. Its a very rare thing for that to happen but yet its used as an argument against Lombardi and his drafting. Its not like theres a bunch of guys outside the top 5 in their draft class competing for the scoring title every year.

Once again thats just not DL being able to land those guys. 29 other GMs didnt sign them, does that make them unwilling to make a major impact? Every west coast GM has problem signing big name elite players. When was the last time an elite player signed on the west coast as a free agent?
And I pointed out that while it is more likely a top pick will be a leading scorer, it's not unheard of like you see med to imply.

As for the free agents, no, it's not totally DL's fault. But I'm not letting him off the hook either. Gaborik for example. It's been stated if DL would have matched the offer NYR gave, he'd have come to LA. That's been quoted on these boards before someplace. DL elected not to (the issue was the number of years IIRC. DL offered four, Gabby wanted five).

Personally, I'm not saying I would have or wouldn't have signed those contracts either if I was DL, but I'm not DL. IF DL really thinks his team needs a big time goalscorer, which it seems like since every summer LA is strongly after guys like Kovalchuk, then he needs to get it done. If that means signing a Hossa type of contract, then do it. Either that or find a way to trade for one.

Also, it's not 29 other teams. It's more likely 3-5 other teams. No way all 30 teams are strongly contending for Kovalchuk, Hossa, Gaborik, Drury, etc.

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12-19-2011, 11:10 AM
  #63
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I thought everyone loved Dean ?

Bottom line is, in Five years you have to pick some guys that will be roster players and score at a decent rate.

So far Dean has not done that consistently. Now Toffoli, Vey, Kozun may be the guys the Kings are waiting for (Scoring forwards).

But so far Dean gets a non passing grade in my book (on forwards).

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12-19-2011, 11:16 AM
  #64
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Another interesting observation among the NHL's top 30 point leaders, look at where they came from:

12 played in Europe
7 played in the OHL
5 played in the WHL
4 played NCAA
2 played in the QMJHL

Of those top 30 forwards, here are the numbers of whether they are currently with a team that they were drafted from, traded for, or signed as a free agent:

20 Drafted
5 Free Agents
5 Trades

If you want a highly skilled forward, you're best bet is to draft one.

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12-19-2011, 11:31 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by kingsfan View Post
And I pointed out that while it is more likely a top pick will be a leading scorer, it's not unheard of like you see med to imply.

As for the free agents, no, it's not totally DL's fault. But I'm not letting him off the hook either. Gaborik for example. It's been stated if DL would have matched the offer NYR gave, he'd have come to LA. That's been quoted on these boards before someplace. DL elected not to (the issue was the number of years IIRC. DL offered four, Gabby wanted five). Personally, I'm not saying I would have or wouldn't have signed those contracts either if I was DL, but I'm not DL. IF DL really thinks his team needs a big time goalscorer, which it seems like since every summer LA is strongly after guys like Kovalchuk, then he needs to get it done. If that means signing a Hossa type of contract, then do it. Either that or find a way to trade for one. Also, it's not 29 other teams. It's more likely 3-5 other teams. No way all 30 teams are strongly contending for Kovalchuk, Hossa, Gaborik, Drury, etc.
Not saying its not unheard of, just that those guys are few and far between.

DL only offered 2 years which wasnt a bad offer when everything is taken into account. Look at all the injury problems the guy had the previous couple of years before he became a free agent.

I seem to recall him offering Hossa nearly the same deal Chicago did. He chose Chicago because of their record. Hes giving these guys fair offers but they choose to sign where the travel is much easier. I cant even remember the last big name forward to sign west of the central time zone. Its a problem almost every west coast team has minus Detroit and Chicago.

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12-19-2011, 11:39 AM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
Another interesting observation among the NHL's top 30 point leaders, look at where they came from:

12 played in Europe
7 played in the OHL
5 played in the WHL
4 played NCAA
2 played in the QMJHL

Of those top 30 forwards, here are the numbers of whether they are currently with a team that they were drafted from, traded for, or signed as a free agent:

20 Drafted
5 Free Agents
5 Trades

If you want a highly skilled forward, you're best bet is to draft one.
Yet, only 2 came from the Q, maybe, just maybe Dean already had that information, and used it?

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12-19-2011, 11:41 AM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
The only other way to look at it is to judge Lombardi's draft from the results they have garnered.

Since 2006, the Kings have had 49 draft selections. Of those, 12 have played in the NHL, those 10 players are:

Jonathan Bernier
Trevor Lewis
Dwight King
Alec Martinez
Wayne Simmonds
Oscar Moller
Drew Doughty
Andrei Loktionov
Viatcheslav Voynov
Colten Teubert
Kyle Clifford
Brayden Schenn

Three of those 12 have been traded (Schenn, Teubert, Simmonds), one is currently playing in Europe (Moller), and another in the minors (King). The seven others are currently on the Kings roster. From that group of seven drafted players on the roster, three are forwards. Of those three, only one player could be labeled as a highly skilled forward, and that's Andrei Loktionov.
Great work,

Now it would be interesting to see the breakdown from other clubs, just on the drafting who has played in the NHL, I would discount players like Dwight King who only played a dozen or so games, maybe make a minimum of 25 games or something,

But would love to see his drafting record vs Detroit, NJ, Van, or whichever GM's you qualify as good/great GMs.

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12-19-2011, 11:50 AM
  #68
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Then that makes sense.

I'm unsure why he's so adverse to select forwards from the Q. Defensemen I get, I mean the Q is hardly a defensive fortress and doesn't produce nearly the same number of level of defensemen the WHL and OHL does, but if I wanted a goalscorer, I'm looking pretty hard at the Q. Maybe it's just the way the draft has worked out for the Kings that the top guy on their list just happens to not be from the Q?
Maybe 10 years ago yeah but nowadays not so much. Theres only one guy from the Q whos near the top of the goal scoring each year and he happens to be the best player in the game. Outside of that all the top goal scorers seem to be from the OHL, NCAA or Europe with the odd guy from the WHL and the Q in there. Look at the top 10 from last year. 4 from the OHL, 2 from the WHL, 1 from Europe, 2 from the NCAA and 1 from the Q.

2009-10 2 from the Q, 4 from Europe, 1 WHL, 1 OHL and 2 NCAA.
2008-09 0 from the Q, 2 from Europe , 1 WHL, 3 OHL and 4 NCAA.
2007-08 1 from the Q, 6 from Europe, 1 NCAA, 1 WHL 1 OHL.

The Q just doesnt produce goal scorers like it used.

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12-19-2011, 11:57 AM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
Another interesting observation among the NHL's top 30 point leaders, look at where they came from:

12 played in Europe
7 played in the OHL
5 played in the WHL
4 played NCAA
2 played in the QMJHL

Of those top 30 forwards, here are the numbers of whether they are currently with a team that they were drafted from, traded for, or signed as a free agent:

20 Drafted
5 Free Agents
5 Trades

If you want a highly skilled forward, you're best bet is to draft one.
As far as the guys from Europe are you counting Hossa, Vanek and Fleischmann among those guys?

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12-19-2011, 12:01 PM
  #70
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As far as the guys from Europe are you counting Hossa, Vanek and Fleischmann among those guys?
Vanek no, Hossa and Fleischmann yes as they were playing in Europe before they were drafted.

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12-19-2011, 12:06 PM
  #71
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Vanek no, Hossa and Fleischmann yes as they were playing in Europe before they were drafted.
My mistake I know they had both played in the WHL but it was after they were drafted.

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12-19-2011, 03:25 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
Another interesting observation among the NHL's top 30 point leaders, look at where they came from:

12 played in Europe
7 played in the OHL
5 played in the WHL
4 played NCAA
2 played in the QMJHL

Of those top 30 forwards, here are the numbers of whether they are currently with a team that they were drafted from, traded for, or signed as a free agent:

20 Drafted
5 Free Agents
5 Trades

If you want a highly skilled forward, you're best bet is to draft one.
Yeah, but they were picked as:
#1 - 4x
#2 - 3x
#3 - 2x
#4 - 2x
#5 - 2x
#6-#8 - 1x
#9-#11 - 2x
#12-#15 - 2x
#16+ - 12x

So to get a top 30 scorer, you actually need those high picks as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sjmay View Post
Great work,

Now it would be interesting to see the breakdown from other clubs, just on the drafting who has played in the NHL
That is the main problem. Lombardi has done a lot, so of course some of the work was not so good. But so have the other GM's. That is my point.

If I understand correctly, you are saying that Lombardi has a irrational prejudice against highly skilled forwards which is hurting the team right now? I remember that people were saying that Lombardi hates Russians and Lombardi responded by drafting Voynov, Loktionov, Kitsyn. He even took the risk during Russia-NHL battle, when everyone else was running away from the Russians.

I believe that Lombardi will draft the player he thinks is the best at that moment, regardless of player's position. Whether his evaluation is correct or wrong, that is a different discussion.

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12-19-2011, 03:43 PM
  #73
Ziggy Stardust
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Another item to add concerning Lombardi's view of drafting talent. He has said in the past, that all things being equal between a forward and a defenseman, he is going to take the defenseman because he plays a more important position. That goes in line with what he did in 1998 when he traded down to draft Brad Stuart instead of David Legwand.

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12-19-2011, 04:00 PM
  #74
Jason Lewis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingpest19 View Post
How many top end elite forwards challenging for the scoring race the past few years were taken outside the top 5?
That's a terrible example...because of the last 5 years only Stamkos has challenged as a number one overall. By your own definition the following players aren't elite because they haven't "challenged for the scoring race"

Tavares
Kane
Erik Johnson
Van Reimsdyk
Toews
Duchene

Maybe they will in a few years, but they need time to develop. To expect players to come out into the NHL at 19-20-21-22 and make a run at a scoring title is LUDICROUS. I aboslutely despise this discussion I swear.

People act like every player who is drafted top 10 should be making huge huge impacts at the NHL RIGHT AWAY. Truth is, of ALL the draft picks each year...only a handful...less then 10...will play the year after they are drafted. We've become so ****ing spoiled with guys like Crosby, or Stamkos, Doughty and the likes...that we expect every player drafted up in the top-5 to have immediate impact...and when they don't OMG BUST OMG BUST HE SUCKS TRADE HIM. People need to get real, every draft year is different, and every player is different. Teams draft based on long term success 99% of the time, not immediate. Granted a player like Stamkos, it's just a bonus because you KNOW he is already going to step in and be an impact player. But for most guys, most regular gifted athletes that get drafted high..they NEED TIME TO DEVELOP. People fail to understand that, and in this impatient rationale they want immediate results. It's stupid, and unrealistic. For ****s sake man..the way people give up on players around here is so ridiculous. I am glad none of you are GMs.

And you want a few non top 5ers that have challenged before? To name only a few

Corey Perry
Martin St. Louis
Jarome Iginla
Brad Richards (3rd round)
Pavel Datsyuk
Marian Hossa
Joe Sakic
Daniel Alfredsson

Want to know how many of these guys were challenging for scoring titels below age 22? None of em except Sakic, who is arguably one of the best players of all time.


This rant wasn't directed at you Pest...but you spurred it on. Just to let you know..not givin it to you or anything...lit the fuse lol

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12-19-2011, 04:39 PM
  #75
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i dont think the kings problem is drafting, its allowing the young players to develop, while surrounding them with supportive players.

up front the kings have had a bunch of nothing forwards as long as i can remember, for example: smyth, penner, ponikarovsky, hunter, moreau, handzus.

these guys are not 4th liners (with the exception of moreau), but they are 1st-3rd line players who are taking spots that young players could fill.

i think a better option that has been exercised by other teams, is picking up veteran bottom 6ers, and in the top 6 spending more to find forwards that can be part of team growth for the future, or leaving the top 6 as is, to grow. for example, neal and kunitz in pittsburgh, booth in vancouver, setoguchi in minnesota, or horton in boston.

these trades arent easy to make, but its better to spend and to find a player that you want going forward, and can continue to develop with the young players on the team, than to spend assets on acquiring forwards to fill a temporary need in the top 6, that shunts other players development, and only hurts the teams core direction. its just as much philosophy as it is on ice performance. for example, even though booth hasnt been excellent with the canucks so far, he allows hodgson and hansen to player more time (as they desposed of 2 veteran ~top6ers in sturm and samuelsson), while at the same time adding a piece in booth himself that is quite young, and keeps the bridge between young and veteran players.

lombardi hasnt done a good enough job creating a bridge between players like moller and schenn (when they were in the kings organization) and the veterans. even on d, doughty, johnson, and then no other even remotely young defenseman who can be part of the core.

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