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Wing musings: To trade, or not?

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Old
12-07-2005, 07:52 PM
  #76
nik jr
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i think everyone should just forget about signing chara. we can hope, but every other team w/ cap space will want him and several will be able to offer more. and ottawa will almost certainly re-sign him.

of course, the same thing could happen w/ redden. :/

maybe you remember the draft--muckler said he drafted lee b/c ottawa needed another Dman after the loss of either redden or chara. basically all the ottawa fans i've heard from prefer to keep chara over redden. earlier this yr, there was a poll on the ottawa board and most said keep chara lose redden. both meszaros and lee are fairly similar to redden and could be seen as replacements.

OTOH, chara's mobility when he's 35 could be a big problem.

signing jovo=big mistake. many vcr fans consider "special ed" their 3rd best Dman after ohlund and salo. he's schneider on steroids--bigger and tougher but more expensive w/ even more stupid plays.

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12-07-2005, 11:12 PM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by norrisnick
Jovo is about as defensively responsible as Jason Williams. I'm not sure why anyone would be pining after him.
easily recognizeable name. Personally, I'd like to see the Wings ignore Redden/Jovo/Chara altogether and make hard pushes for Norstrom and McKee. Both are solid, physical, defensively responsible players who would provide nice balance with Schneider, Kronwall and (hopefully) Lidstrom.

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12-08-2005, 12:00 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Hendo2k
so lets spend high money on an aging allstar defenseman who is NOT rustiest but is at the age where he is slowing down. instead of signing another allstar Dman who is much less younger who is performing just as well as the older Lidstrom and will perform much longer down the road

THATS what i dont get.

people think Lidstrom is just rusty.... no he isnt. face the facts guys he's getting old. if you guys want to spend 5mill on him next year thats fine however i will take the younger jovo who will come just as much if not less who will give me what Lidstrom does for more years.

Sorry...I disagree completely with this. Lidstrom is on pace for yet another 60+ point season. He is being criticized a bit on here on a pretty consistent basis for "losing a step" and declining so much, yet he is still in the top 10 in defensive scoring. And he hasnt even come CLOSE to getting on any kind of hot streak. The 19 assists he has is very, very good and once he starts to pot a few more tallies I think people will back off a bit. And he is still as solid as anybody defensively.

That being said...if the Wings want to go after Chara or maybe even Redden, then I can handle it. But again...what is with the Jovo thing? You say he will do the same type of things Lidstrom can? Please...not even close. Ed Jovanovski is not an upgrade over Nicklas Lidstrom. Nick is getting older and makes too much cash. Well...the Wings can take care of one of those problems when they bring him back next year for a much smaller salary. I still can count on 1 hand the guys I would want on the ice instead of Nicklas Lidstrom, and Jovo is not one of them. We should all still feel damn lucky to have him.

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12-08-2005, 12:33 AM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winger98
easily recognizeable name. Personally, I'd like to see the Wings ignore Redden/Jovo/Chara altogether and make hard pushes for Norstrom and McKee. Both are solid, physical, defensively responsible players who would provide nice balance with Schneider, Kronwall and (hopefully) Lidstrom.
I'd be thrilled if they could get those 2, they'd be perfect compliments to Lidstrom and Kronwall.

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12-08-2005, 01:55 AM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winger98
easily recognizeable name. Personally, I'd like to see the Wings ignore Redden/Jovo/Chara altogether and make hard pushes for Norstrom and McKee. Both are solid, physical, defensively responsible players who would provide nice balance with Schneider, Kronwall and (hopefully) Lidstrom.
I agree, IMO Norstrom is 1 of the best defensively players in the NHL these days.

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12-08-2005, 08:30 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Higgy4
Sorry...I disagree completely with this. Lidstrom is on pace for yet another 60+ point season. He is being criticized a bit on here on a pretty consistent basis for "losing a step" and declining so much, yet he is still in the top 10 in defensive scoring. And he hasnt even come CLOSE to getting on any kind of hot streak. The 19 assists he has is very, very good and once he starts to pot a few more tallies I think people will back off a bit. And he is still as solid as anybody defensively.

That being said...if the Wings want to go after Chara or maybe even Redden, then I can handle it. But again...what is with the Jovo thing? You say he will do the same type of things Lidstrom can? Please...not even close. Ed Jovanovski is not an upgrade over Nicklas Lidstrom. Nick is getting older and makes too much cash. Well...the Wings can take care of one of those problems when they bring him back next year for a much smaller salary. I still can count on 1 hand the guys I would want on the ice instead of Nicklas Lidstrom, and Jovo is not one of them. We should all still feel damn lucky to have him.
Lidstrom's point totals do not reflect his play. He has a lot of assists, but they haven't been the types of assists that you would credit him for - he's not finding guys up the middle for breakaways, he's not making cross-ice passes for empty netters, etc. In fact, I'd bet that at least 5 of his assists are off Schneider PP goals where they were just passing it around until Schneider shot it. Also, Nick's slapper is dead. He doesn't even try it anymore. One of his goals was an empty netter, the other was a flip from the point that floated in. His defense isn't very good anymore either. He still has a great stick but he can't skate with anyone anymore so his positioning is out of whack.

I don't see anyone arguing for giving Jovo a huge contract. I see about 15 guys saying it's a bad idea, and 0 saying they should throw money at him. If they can get him for around 3 mil, then I'd say do it, because he is like Schneider but younger and more physical. But the one they should throw money at is Chara. I like Nick but knowing Holland he'll offer him way more than he should because he's Nick Lidstrom, not because of what he can offer the team on the ice in the future.

Also, for those who think that Lidstrom is better than Chara, look at the numbers - Lidstrom is 35 and his numbers have plummeted in the past 3 seasons. See above for reasons why I think his point pace will tail off rather than increase this season. Chara is 28 and his point totals have increased the past 3 seasons. He also plays in front of the net on the PP, so he would make Homer obsolete, saving more salary for another D man or a power forward.

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12-08-2005, 11:24 AM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winger98
easily recognizeable name. Personally, I'd like to see the Wings ignore Redden/Jovo/Chara altogether and make hard pushes for Norstrom and McKee. Both are solid, physical, defensively responsible players who would provide nice balance with Schneider, Kronwall and (hopefully) Lidstrom.

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12-08-2005, 12:51 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sarcastro
Lidstrom's point totals do not reflect his play. He has a lot of assists, but they haven't been the types of assists that you would credit him for - he's not finding guys up the middle for breakaways, he's not making cross-ice passes for empty netters, etc. In fact, I'd bet that at least 5 of his assists are off Schneider PP goals where they were just passing it around until Schneider shot it. Also, Nick's slapper is dead. He doesn't even try it anymore. One of his goals was an empty netter, the other was a flip from the point that floated in. His defense isn't very good anymore either. He still has a great stick but he can't skate with anyone anymore so his positioning is out of whack.

I don't see anyone arguing for giving Jovo a huge contract. I see about 15 guys saying it's a bad idea, and 0 saying they should throw money at him. If they can get him for around 3 mil, then I'd say do it, because he is like Schneider but younger and more physical. But the one they should throw money at is Chara. I like Nick but knowing Holland he'll offer him way more than he should because he's Nick Lidstrom, not because of what he can offer the team on the ice in the future.

Also, for those who think that Lidstrom is better than Chara, look at the numbers - Lidstrom is 35 and his numbers have plummeted in the past 3 seasons. See above for reasons why I think his point pace will tail off rather than increase this season. Chara is 28 and his point totals have increased the past 3 seasons. He also plays in front of the net on the PP, so he would make Homer obsolete, saving more salary for another D man or a power forward.
Lidstroms last 3 seasons he has had...in order...59, 62 and 38 points. This season he is on pace for exactly 60 points. In fact his point totals for the past 10 years are 67, 57, 59, 57, 73, 71, 59, 62, 38 and a projected 60 this season. Where are the "plumetting" point totals you speak of? I see 1 bad year among 9 other fairly steady years. You are just completely wrong about that. And like I said before, he is on pace for a very quiet 60 points. You know a hot streak is inevitable at some point this year. So, while I can sorta see some of what you are saying, his point totals are not "plumetting" by any means.

Listen...I understand how these things work. Lidstrom is getting older. Lidstrom does make too much money. He isnt the single best defensman in the NHL that he was for the better part of the last decade. But I think all those great years have spoiled most of you. He is still a bonafide #1 defensman in the NHL. Didnt Chris Chelios have a Norris Finalist season at age 38 or something? Lidstrom still has TONS of great hockey left in him. Do I want Zdeno Chara on this team? Hell yeah...who wouldnt. But like everyone has said, Chara will be on 25 other teams wish lists as well. Chances are slim and none that he will be in Detroit next season.

Lidstrom is declining. But it isnt the lead balloon free fall like some of you are talking about. Lidstrom will take a considerable pay cut next year. If the Wings can sign him for 2 years/$8 million, I would take it in a heartbeat. And then go after some less expensive defensive minded guys to round out the D and replace what Fischer brought. Jay McKee was mentioned. I think someone like that would be ideal for the Red Wings.

Again...we are lucky to have Nick Lidstrom and this team is not a playoff team without him. I read other boards on here like the rest of you, and this is the only board that seems to be turning sour on him. Most of the other teams in the league will JUMP at the chance to take Lidstrom from Detroit. And we have people on here who want him gone and replaced by Ed Jovanovski?

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12-08-2005, 02:39 PM
  #84
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I agree with much of what you posted, but I think Lidstrom is declining faster than Chelios. Cheli's Norris finalist performance in 02 was exceptional. Had he won he would be the only defenseman to claim that trophy across 3 decades. And this was a year after he had major knee surgery, most 36 year olds would have quit after blowing out their knee. Instead Cheli came back 90-some days after the surgery. It was simply amazing. And at 44 he's still an NHL caliber player.

I'll eat my hat if Lidstrom is a Norris finalst again, or if he's still playing in the NHL at 44. Lidstrom is still a good defenseman, a top pairing guy for sure. But he's not in the top 10 in the NHL anymore. He's not even the best D-man on the team imo, despite his flaws I believe it's Schneider. Nick is not worth a 2y/$8 million deal imo. How good will he be next season? Or the year after that? We don't know. Lidstrom is clearly (to me anyway) not the player he was in 03-04. How much further will he degrade? It's a big risk to make that kind of offer. I would go 1y at a time for something in the 3-3.5M range tops.

There might be a team or two who will offer more money, but Nick will not be the hot commodity he used to be. He's getting old & slow, he's lost his shot and there are much more attractive defenseman to be had. I think teams are learning from Boston's error on Leetch and won't repeat it. I would love to see Nick back next year, but if it's not for an acceptable salary then it would be wiser to move on and spend the money on a younger franchise player.

As far as the Wings not being a playoff team without Nick, I agree and disagree. If Kronwall & Fischer were playing then we could get by without Nick. But with the situation being what it is yes we need him, and we need him badly.

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12-08-2005, 03:06 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doublejack
I agree with much of what you posted, but I think Lidstrom is declining faster than Chelios. Cheli's Norris finalist performance in 02 was exceptional. Had he won he would be the only defenseman to claim that trophy across 3 decades. And this was a year after he had major knee surgery, most 36 year olds would have quit after blowing out their knee. Instead Cheli came back 90-some days after the surgery. It was simply amazing. And at 44 he's still an NHL caliber player.

I'll eat my hat if Lidstrom is a Norris finalst again, or if he's still playing in the NHL at 44. Lidstrom is still a good defenseman, a top pairing guy for sure. But he's not in the top 10 in the NHL anymore. He's not even the best D-man on the team imo, despite his flaws I believe it's Schneider. Nick is not worth a 2y/$8 million deal imo. How good will he be next season? Or the year after that? We don't know. Lidstrom is clearly (to me anyway) not the player he was in 03-04. How much further will he degrade? It's a big risk to make that kind of offer. I would go 1y at a time for something in the 3-3.5M range tops.

There might be a team or two who will offer more money, but Nick will not be the hot commodity he used to be. He's getting old & slow, he's lost his shot and there are much more attractive defenseman to be had. I think teams are learning from Boston's error on Leetch and won't repeat it. I would love to see Nick back next year, but if it's not for an acceptable salary then it would be wiser to move on and spend the money on a younger franchise player.

As far as the Wings not being a playoff team without Nick, I agree and disagree. If Kronwall & Fischer were playing then we could get by without Nick. But with the situation being what it is yes we need him, and we need him badly.
How is Lidstrom declining faster than Chelios? Production wise Chris' numbers were cut in half and he had to retool his game from a three zone defenseman to basically a one zone defenseman in order to remain competitive. It was during that retool that we landed him.

Mathieu is putting up shinier numbers but he's not even close to being as dependable in his own end as Nick is. Sure Nick is making mistakes now and then, but the only reason we notice is that he's never made mistakes before. He still makes far fewer mistakes than just about anyone else out there. He's way too smart to become ineffective and IMO could easily transition his role lower over the years as his body dictates ala Larionov and Chelios.

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12-08-2005, 04:12 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doublejack
I agree with much of what you posted, but I think Lidstrom is declining faster than Chelios. Cheli's Norris finalist performance in 02 was exceptional. Had he won he would be the only defenseman to claim that trophy across 3 decades. And this was a year after he had major knee surgery, most 36 year olds would have quit after blowing out their knee. Instead Cheli came back 90-some days after the surgery. It was simply amazing. And at 44 he's still an NHL caliber player.

I'll eat my hat if Lidstrom is a Norris finalst again, or if he's still playing in the NHL at 44. Lidstrom is still a good defenseman, a top pairing guy for sure. But he's not in the top 10 in the NHL anymore. He's not even the best D-man on the team imo, despite his flaws I believe it's Schneider. Nick is not worth a 2y/$8 million deal imo. How good will he be next season? Or the year after that? We don't know. Lidstrom is clearly (to me anyway) not the player he was in 03-04. How much further will he degrade? It's a big risk to make that kind of offer. I would go 1y at a time for something in the 3-3.5M range tops.

There might be a team or two who will offer more money, but Nick will not be the hot commodity he used to be. He's getting old & slow, he's lost his shot and there are much more attractive defenseman to be had. I think teams are learning from Boston's error on Leetch and won't repeat it. I would love to see Nick back next year, but if it's not for an acceptable salary then it would be wiser to move on and spend the money on a younger franchise player.

As far as the Wings not being a playoff team without Nick, I agree and disagree. If Kronwall & Fischer were playing then we could get by without Nick. But with the situation being what it is yes we need him, and we need him badly.
Lidstrom is declining faster than Chelios? See...this is the kind of thing I am talking about on this board. I dont see this at all. First of all...Lidstrom was never fast. I keep hearing how slow he is getting. He was never fast to begin with and he is still the BEST positional defensman in the NHL. Second of all, he is on pace for another 60 point season. I hate to keep saying this over and over, but it seems people dont realize that he is still 8th among NHL defensman in scoring all while he is supposedly "rapidly declining" and having his stats "plummet" every year. Yes...he is getting older and his career is on the down slope now. But he isnt in a lead balloon free fall like alot of you keep talking about.

Lidstrom is our #1 defensman. Every night in the GTD's we talk about yet another terrible Schneider giveaway, many of which lead to goals or glorious scoring opportunities. Again...even though he is "rapidly declining"... we dont see Lidstrom with these kind of mistakes. So, I disagree with you on him being #2 behind Schneider. Nick is 4 points behind Schneider and playing MUCH better defensively than Schneider. Nick is still the go to guy.

Lastly, you say that if Kronwall and Fischer were healthy we could "get by without Nick"? Are you insane? Kronwall has 20 games of NHL experience. Sure, we all THINK he can be the next Nick Lidstrom, but that isnt a certainty. And Fischer, while he was playing great this year finally, is not a top pairing defensman by any means. Bottom line...this team needs Lidstrom with or without those other 2 guys.

Other than that, I think you make good points in your post. I say 2 years at $8 million is a great way to keep Nick in the fold.

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12-08-2005, 05:11 PM
  #87
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I think you guys may have misunderstood what I wrote about Lidstrom declining faster than Chelios. I do not mean that Chelios is today a better player than Lidstrom. Clearly that's not the case. I mean that Chelios at age 35 was closer to what he was in his prime than what Lidstrom is today compared to his prime. Basically rate of decline relative to age is what I'm talking about. I guarantee Nick will not be capable of playing in the NHL at age 44, that's the proof of my claim. If he can then you guys are right and I was wrong.

I also think there are many who have an overly rosey view of Lidstrom. He's still a good player but he's not Norris Nick anymore. Next time he's involved in a foot race through the neutral zone watch how badly he gets beaten. His lack of speed is pretty apparent. He's getting caught out of position and pinching in which is leading to more scoring chances against us. He made Olausson look good in 2002. There's no way imo he could do that anymore.

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12-08-2005, 05:20 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doublejack
I think you guys may have misunderstood what I wrote about Lidstrom declining faster than Chelios. I do not mean that Chelios is today a better player than Lidstrom. Clearly that's not the case. I mean that Chelios at age 35 was closer to what he was in his prime than what Lidstrom is today compared to his prime. Basically rate of decline relative to age is what I'm talking about. I guarantee Nick will not be capable of playing in the NHL at age 44, that's the proof of my claim. If he can then you guys are right and I was wrong.

I also think there are many who have an overly rosey view of Lidstrom. He's still a good player but he's not Norris Nick anymore. Next time he's involved in a foot race through the neutral zone watch how badly he gets beaten. His lack of speed is pretty apparent. He's getting caught out of position and pinching in which is leading to more scoring chances against us. He made Olausson look good in 2002. There's no way imo he could do that anymore.
We, I at least, understood what you said. I disagree. Lidstrom is not in some meteoric decline. He'll likely have to adapt his game and readjust his positioning as he approaches and crosses 40 but there is no reason he can't continue to be an impact player like Chelios has been. And Lidstrom even has the upperhand of having had a remarkably healthy career *knocking on wood* that isn't focused on physical attributes (speed, size, or strength).

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12-08-2005, 10:45 PM
  #89
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Hey felllers.

I'd like to Keep Lidstrom. But he can't come back for more than $4.6M. Even that is pretty pricey given our salary structure.

If that cap moves down a million or so, the Wings are gonna be hard pressed AGAIN.

Anyway, if Lidstrom can't be signed, I like Nordstrom,. but he's not getting any younger.

Is it true that Derek Morris will be a UFA???

Then that's who I'd like to see.

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12-08-2005, 11:11 PM
  #90
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I dont think anyone has "overly rosey" feeling for Lidstrom. He isnt a 7.6 million dollar defensman anymore...we know this. But he is still a bonafide #1 NHL defensman. And if the Wings can get him to sign for $4 million a year I think its a frickin bargain. You think we have rosey feelings for him, but I think some people on here are pushing the panic button on Lidstrom WAY, WAY too fast also. So...it goes both ways.

I am sure people wrote Chelios off before his final Norris season. I can see Nick having 1 more good Norris Trophy type of season. He isnt the perennial candidate that he used to be, but he still has tons to give.

Again, I think we have been spoiled so badly by how great he has been over the years. Now that he is making some mistakes people are jumping off a bridge over it. Even at this "declining" stage of his career, he is better than 90% of the rest of the NHL defensemen.

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12-08-2005, 11:16 PM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Higgy4
I dont think anyone has "overly rosey" feeling for Lidstrom. He isnt a 7.6 million dollar defensman anymore...we know this. But he is still a bonafide #1 NHL defensman. And if the Wings can get him to sign for $4 million a year I think its a frickin bargain. You think we have rosey feelings for him, but I think some people on here are pushing the panic button on Lidstrom WAY, WAY too fast also. So...it goes both ways.

I am sure people wrote Chelios off before his final Norris season. I can see Nick having 1 more good Norris Trophy type of season. He isnt the perennial candidate that he used to be, but he still has tons to give.

Again, I think we have been spoiled so badly by how great he has been over the years. Now that he is making some mistakes people are jumping off a bridge over it. Even at this "declining" stage of his career, he is better than 90% of the rest of the NHL defensemen.
Good point.

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12-09-2005, 12:44 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by TinCanCommunications
Hey felllers.

I'd like to Keep Lidstrom. But he can't come back for more than $4.6M. Even that is pretty pricey given our salary structure.

If that cap moves down a million or so, the Wings are gonna be hard pressed AGAIN.

Anyway, if Lidstrom can't be signed, I like Nordstrom,. but he's not getting any younger.

Is it true that Derek Morris will be a UFA???

Then that's who I'd like to see.
There are some other notable D's like Chara, Redden and Jovanovski (I think they are UFA's). PLus I heard Brad Stuart is a UFA. If Lidstrom doesn't resign with Detroit it's not the end of the world....providing they use some of that $7.6 million on 1 or 2 guys.

IMO you can get a couple of pretty good defenceman for what Lidstrom is making alone. I hope that if he does come back that it's for significantly less. We'll see.

Plus Yzerman will probably retire so that saves a million or so. Too bad Wings can't find any takers for Maltby and Draper. Pretty expensive for what they do. Guys like Franzen and Cleary are doing better than them and for much less $$$

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12-09-2005, 09:23 AM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Higgy4
Lidstroms last 3 seasons he has had...in order...59, 62 and 38 points. This season he is on pace for exactly 60 points. In fact his point totals for the past 10 years are 67, 57, 59, 57, 73, 71, 59, 62, 38 and a projected 60 this season. Where are the "plumetting" point totals you speak of? I see 1 bad year among 9 other fairly steady years. You are just completely wrong about that. And like I said before, he is on pace for a very quiet 60 points. You know a hot streak is inevitable at some point this year. So, while I can sorta see some of what you are saying, his point totals are not "plumetting" by any means.

Listen...I understand how these things work. Lidstrom is getting older. Lidstrom does make too much money. He isnt the single best defensman in the NHL that he was for the better part of the last decade. But I think all those great years have spoiled most of you. He is still a bonafide #1 defensman in the NHL. Didnt Chris Chelios have a Norris Finalist season at age 38 or something? Lidstrom still has TONS of great hockey left in him. Do I want Zdeno Chara on this team? Hell yeah...who wouldnt. But like everyone has said, Chara will be on 25 other teams wish lists as well. Chances are slim and none that he will be in Detroit next season.

Lidstrom is declining. But it isnt the lead balloon free fall like some of you are talking about. Lidstrom will take a considerable pay cut next year. If the Wings can sign him for 2 years/$8 million, I would take it in a heartbeat. And then go after some less expensive defensive minded guys to round out the D and replace what Fischer brought. Jay McKee was mentioned. I think someone like that would be ideal for the Red Wings.

Again...we are lucky to have Nick Lidstrom and this team is not a playoff team without him. I read other boards on here like the rest of you, and this is the only board that seems to be turning sour on him. Most of the other teams in the league will JUMP at the chance to take Lidstrom from Detroit. And we have people on here who want him gone and replaced by Ed Jovanovski?
You're ignoring half my points and misreading the other half. I explained that Lidstrom's point totals are higher than his play says they should be. This suggests that he is on his hot streak now, and that his numbers will drop as the season goes on.

You ignored my point about Lidstrom's dead shot and lack of goals.
You say that I want to replace him with Jovo when I clearly said we should replace him with Chara, and sign Jovo as a supplement if he's cheap enough.
Lidstrom did not play well in 03-04, and has not played very well this year either. Like I said, he's still one of the best at stick checking but he can't skate with anyone anymore and guys are exploiting his slowness more and more.
I agree that there are probably a lot of teams that will throw money at Lidstrom. Let them. It's their mistake.
Depending on what happens with Jiri, the Wings may need 2 top 4 defensemen next summer. McKee would be a good guy to go after, but he's not a top guy. And it's becoming clear that Lidstrom isn't a top guy anymore either. Chara is a top guy, and that's why I say they should concentrate on him. Better to overspend on a great young stud than overspend on an aging, slow player in decline.
Lidstrom may have lots of hockey left in him, but I haven't seen anything great from him this year. 4 mil is too much.

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12-09-2005, 09:55 AM
  #94
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You're ignoring half my points and misreading the other half. I explained that Lidstrom's point totals are higher than his play says they should be. This suggests that he is on his hot streak now, and that his numbers will drop as the season goes on.

You ignored my point about Lidstrom's dead shot and lack of goals.
You say that I want to replace him with Jovo when I clearly said we should replace him with Chara, and sign Jovo as a supplement if he's cheap enough.
Lidstrom did not play well in 03-04, and has not played very well this year either. Like I said, he's still one of the best at stick checking but he can't skate with anyone anymore and guys are exploiting his slowness more and more.
I agree that there are probably a lot of teams that will throw money at Lidstrom. Let them. It's their mistake.
Depending on what happens with Jiri, the Wings may need 2 top 4 defensemen next summer. McKee would be a good guy to go after, but he's not a top guy. And it's becoming clear that Lidstrom isn't a top guy anymore either. Chara is a top guy, and that's why I say they should concentrate on him. Better to overspend on a great young stud than overspend on an aging, slow player in decline.
Lidstrom may have lots of hockey left in him, but I haven't seen anything great from him this year. 4 mil is too much.
I didnt ignore anything you said. I have made all my points in other posts, so I dont want to keep beating a dead horse. Lidstrom is done in your eyes? You think 4 million is too much for him? Fine..whatever. I completely disagree with you.

I cant believe we have people on here who think this guy is done.

But oh well, you have your opinion and I have mine. Life goes on.

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12-09-2005, 10:14 AM
  #95
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I don't think Lidstrom is done. But his days as a $7 million, $5 million or even $4 million player, IMO, are gone. That money would be better spent elsewhere. If they can get him to come back for 3 or less, then by all means, it is not a bad deal. But like you said, some teams out there will throw 5 or 6 mil at him, and the Wings would be crazy to come close to matching that.


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12-09-2005, 11:51 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by sarcastro
I don't think Lidstrom is done. But his days as a $7 million, $5 million or even $4 million player, IMO, are gone. That money would be better spent elsewhere. If they can get him to come back for 3 or less, then by all means, it is not a bad deal. But like you said, some teams out there will throw 5 or 6 mil at him, and the Wings would be crazy to come close to matching that.

See, I think Lidstrom is a 4 million dollar player. And yes...there will be quite a few teams who will throw 5-6 million at him. I hope to god the Wings dont panic and give him that much. But if Schneider is making 3.5, then Lidstrom is easily worth 4.

Sign him for 4 million, hope that Kronwall is the stud we all think he is, then go out and get a McKee type of guy for 1.5 - 2.

I have said all year (and even before this year) that Lidstrom is making too much money. But he wont be at 4 million.

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12-09-2005, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Higgy4
See, I think Lidstrom is a 4 million dollar player. And yes...there will be quite a few teams who will throw 5-6 million at him. I hope to god the Wings dont panic and give him that much. But if Schneider is making 3.5, then Lidstrom is easily worth 4.

Sign him for 4 million, hope that Kronwall is the stud we all think he is, then go out and get a McKee type of guy for 1.5 - 2.

I have said all year (and even before this year) that Lidstrom is making too much money. But he wont be at 4 million.
It's a dangerous argument to make when you say if Schneider makes X, then Lidstrom is worth X+2. By that logic you'd say well, since Bobby Holik makes 4.5 mil, and Williams and Zetterberg both have 3 times as many points as he does, then they should both make 3 times as much money. Or, if you prefer, it's like saying since Datsyuk makes 4 mil and Williams has more points, Williams should make more than 4 mil. That's instead of saying that Datsyuk should make less, or whatever combination you want.

If they gave Lidstrom a one year deal for 4 mil, I might not mind so much. But I have a bad feeling that Holland will offer him a 3 year 15 mil deal or something like that, and by the end of it it will just be sad for everyone.

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12-09-2005, 06:21 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by sarcastro
It's a dangerous argument to make when you say if Schneider makes X, then Lidstrom is worth X+2. By that logic you'd say well, since Bobby Holik makes 4.5 mil, and Williams and Zetterberg both have 3 times as many points as he does, then they should both make 3 times as much money. Or, if you prefer, it's like saying since Datsyuk makes 4 mil and Williams has more points, Williams should make more than 4 mil. That's instead of saying that Datsyuk should make less, or whatever combination you want.

If they gave Lidstrom a one year deal for 4 mil, I might not mind so much. But I have a bad feeling that Holland will offer him a 3 year 15 mil deal or something like that, and by the end of it it will just be sad for everyone.
Yeah, I agree that 3 years at 15 million is too much. I am hoping for 2 years for around 8 million.

And my comparison between Schneider and Lids can be made in this case because they are on the same team. It would be a dangerous comparison using players from different teams. But if the Wings feel Schneider is worth 3.5, then I would imagine paying Lidstrom 4 million is right about where they think he should be. Although I think they overpaid a tad bit for Schneider too.

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