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Jacques Martin Fired V2.0

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Old
12-19-2011, 08:16 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by Poulet Kostopoulos View Post
Agree totally.

Firing JM was a classic knee-jerk reaction. Someone up there panicked. That excuse I read about the tendency of losing leads as an indication of the coach losing the bench was lame. It has more to do with the inexperienced defense than anything else. And you could argue that this defense was the result of the major gamble with Markov.

Now G.Molson wrote in the sky that Cunneyworth is only just a patchwork in the coaching position. Do you think players will actually give their all for the remainder of the season for a coach that won't be here next season? No (and that's only normal -- it's human nature).
Yeah Martin lost the bench because we blew leads, but the same lost bench managed to get the lead in the first place. Makes perfect sense.

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12-19-2011, 11:04 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Schooner Guy View Post
Gauthier should have known he was opening Pandora's Box.
That is presuming Gauthier was doing this entirely freely, which may not be the case. Certainly the RDS guys were saying Martin and Gauthier were not getting along, but given the very odd timing, after getting Kaberle and seeing instant PP improvements, at the very least this was partially motivated by a desire from Gauthier to save himself. The internal promotion of Cunneyworth is clearly something driven by Molson. Probably does not want Gauthier to saddle the club with money owed to a new coach that a new management team might not like.

Cunneyworth and Gauthier are now tied together..

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12-19-2011, 11:17 PM
  #78
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That is presuming Gauthier was doing this entirely freely, which may not be the case. Certainly the RDS guys were saying Martin and Gauthier were not getting along, but given the very odd timing, after getting Kaberle and seeing instant PP improvements, at the very least this was partially motivated by a desire from Gauthier to save himself. The internal promotion of Cunneyworth is clearly something driven by Molson. Probably does not want Gauthier to saddle the club with money owed to a new coach that a new management team might not like.

Cunneyworth and Gauthier are now tied together..
Molson is firmly running things now. A punting of Gauthier (and probably Gainey) is in the works however the search for a replacement takes time. It would not surprise me if a search is underway and a replacement is put in place before the trade deadline.

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12-19-2011, 11:17 PM
  #79
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You know what's sad ?

We are 1 -5 in shootouts. Everyone knows it's a coin toss - little a coach can do.

Assuming we had a 50% 3-3 - we would have been in the playoffs when the firing happened.

Assuming a lucky 5-1....

Too much anger in this city. Needs scapegoats.

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12-20-2011, 12:28 AM
  #80
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You know what's sad ?

We are 1 -5 in shootouts. Everyone knows it's a coin toss - little a coach can do.

Assuming we had a 50% 3-3 - we would have been in the playoffs when the firing happened.

Assuming a lucky 5-1....

Too much anger in this city. Needs scapegoats.
This isn't true in the slightest. The Habs are on a 79 point pace, which is the 12th best record in the conference. Giving them 2 more victories would give them an 84 point clip which would still be 12th place.

The situation is dire for the Habs. The 8th place club is on a 89-90 point pace, the Habs a full 10 points behind that pace and needing to jump over 4 clubs.

A 2 game winning streak is not going to make this ok, the Habs need a lot of victories to make up ground. They will need to be on a 0.600 points percentage record here on out to have a chance.

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12-20-2011, 01:12 AM
  #81
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I think the lesson at the end of this all will be "Careful what you wish for."

I hope not but i really think that Martin's system helped this team overachieve.

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12-20-2011, 01:40 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Commandant View Post
I think the lesson at the end of this all will be "Careful what you wish for."

I hope not but i really think that Martin's system helped this team overachieve.
pretty much... for all those who thought "anyone but JM", good luck with Jacques V2.0

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12-20-2011, 02:03 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Commandant View Post
I think the lesson at the end of this all will be "Careful what you wish for."

I hope not but i really think that Martin's system helped this team overachieve.
I agree with you. It's boring, but effective. People complain constantly about our lack of talent, but you can't complain about bad players and bad coach in the same breath when the team has finished 8th and 6th the past two seasons... It's not extraordinary, but it's still better than what you would expect when looking at the team on paper.

I guess we have this to look forward to: losing, but games being a bit more exciting...? I'm trying to be positive.

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12-20-2011, 02:32 AM
  #84
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I agree with you. It's boring, but effective. People complain constantly about our lack of talent, but you can't complain about bad players and bad coach in the same breath when the team has finished 8th and 6th the past two seasons... It's not extraordinary, but it's still better than what you would expect when looking at the team on paper.

I guess we have this to look forward to: losing, but games being a bit more exciting...? I'm trying to be positive.
You're looking at this wrong.

a) Jacques essentially destroyed the lockeroom. It's not to his discredit, it's usually the reason coaches get fired mid-season. The team was inconsistent and not confident - obviously they're going to look like the shells of how good they really are. Which leads me to my second point...

b) This team is VERY talented. We'll see it bleed through a bit more when Cunneyworth can stamp his image on the team (for the record: Cunneyworth has nothing in common with Jacques, he wasn't even Jacques choice as an assistant).
i) Price is a top5 goalie, his stats since Pearn got fired have been great.
ii) A d-corps boasting Subban, Gorges, Kaberle, Gill, Campoli and Markov is in no way untalented. Diaz and Emelin have their uses as well, Emelin looks to be a very useful defender too. Weber is a lost cause as far as I'm concerned but he's a fringe d-man at best.
iii) So your, and most anti-GM, arguments are just based on the effectiveness of the forwards. At their sustainable best, which is to say that Cammy probably won't score at the clip he did in the playoffs but probably won't be this bad again, the players are as talented as most top6s in the league. CHI, WSH, TBL and PHI come to mind as teams with definitive more talent in their top6 but tons of other teams look way worse.

My point is simply that it has EVERYTHING to do with coaching. Jacques did a terrible job at motivating/communicating, did not show faith in his players and it led to his deserved firing. If Blysma can do it with his depleted roster, Jacques did a TERRIBLE job with his.

c) This team has Jacques identity all over it; no tough guys, 3.5 lines, dump-and-change... it'll take some time for their play-style to evolve and for the players get get their confidence back.

d) There is no excuse for Jacques Martin's terrible, trashy hockey style. It was boring, and ultimately ineffective as we can see. This is the most vital aspect in my opinion, the Bell Centre was a ******** mortuary recently. No excuse for that.

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12-20-2011, 02:56 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
b) This team is VERY talented.
I read this type of thing around here far too often and it irks me. VERY talented? Are you kidding me? Expectations must be extremely low because the Habs do not have much talent at all outside the goaltending position. We've had a player top 80 points once since Damphousse and Recchi did it in 1996/97. Raise your standards.

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12-20-2011, 03:08 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Spacegoat View Post
I read this type of thing around here far too often and it irks me. VERY talented? Are you kidding me? Expectations must be extremely low because the Habs do not have much talent at all outside the goaltending position. We've had a player top 80 points once since Damphousse and Recchi did it in 1996/97. Raise your standards.
i agree. I dont know how anyone can say this team is very talented.

Tho it shouldnt surprise anyone. We have fans here who believe Kovalev was a "superstar" in Montreal.

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12-20-2011, 03:10 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Spacegoat View Post
I read this type of thing around here far too often and it irks me. VERY talented? Are you kidding me? Expectations must be extremely low because the Habs do not have much talent at all outside the goaltending position. We've had a player top 80 points once since Damphousse and Recchi did it in 1996/97. Raise your standards.
I have. This isn't the late 90s/early00s Habs with Jan Bulis and Audette. We have talented players playing for a stifling coach who refused to believe it.

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12-20-2011, 03:11 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
I have. This isn't the late 90s/early00s Habs with Jan Bulis and Audette. We have talented players playing for a stifling coach who refused to believe it.
best players are +/- 60 pts players...


they're no Jan Bulis, but come on now...

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12-20-2011, 03:12 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
You're looking at this wrong.

a) Jacques essentially destroyed the lockeroom. It's not to his discredit, it's usually the reason coaches get fired mid-season. The team was inconsistent and not confident - obviously they're going to look like the shells of how good they really are. Which leads me to my second point...

b) This team is VERY talented. We'll see it bleed through a bit more when Cunneyworth can stamp his image on the team (for the record: Cunneyworth has nothing in common with Jacques, he wasn't even Jacques choice as an assistant).
i) Price is a top5 goalie, his stats since Pearn got fired have been great.
ii) A d-corps boasting Subban, Gorges, Kaberle, Gill, Campoli and Markov is in no way untalented. Diaz and Emelin have their uses as well, Emelin looks to be a very useful defender too. Weber is a lost cause as far as I'm concerned but he's a fringe d-man at best.
iii) So your, and most anti-GM, arguments are just based on the effectiveness of the forwards. At their sustainable best, which is to say that Cammy probably won't score at the clip he did in the playoffs but probably won't be this bad again, the players are as talented as most top6s in the league. CHI, WSH, TBL and PHI come to mind as teams with definitive more talent in their top6 but tons of other teams look way worse.

My point is simply that it has EVERYTHING to do with coaching. Jacques did a terrible job at motivating/communicating, did not show faith in his players and it led to his deserved firing. If Blysma can do it with his depleted roster, Jacques did a TERRIBLE job with his.

c) This team has Jacques identity all over it; no tough guys, 3.5 lines, dump-and-change... it'll take some time for their play-style to evolve and for the players get get their confidence back.

d) There is no excuse for Jacques Martin's terrible, trashy hockey style. It was boring, and ultimately ineffective as we can see. This is the most vital aspect in my opinion, the Bell Centre was a ******** mortuary recently. No excuse for that.
I agree with some, disagree with others, but i was watching post game reactions on rds, darche commented that whats needed is in the locker room, and it's not change "around" the team that's needed, which clearly means coaching/engagement. i don't think he tore that room apart. i'm sure some players are frustrated, but that's going to be the case with any team coached for 2+ years by same guy. That's probably as much speculation as your opinion on the matter though.

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Old
12-20-2011, 05:43 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
best players are +/- 60 pts players...


they're no Jan Bulis, but come on now...
Hey come on now!!!! Who scored 4 goals in a game on our actual team?

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12-20-2011, 08:38 AM
  #91
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I keep reading Martin had "lost the room". I call that pure fabrication. The guys looked pretty relaxed and happy on the bench in front of him. I still can't believe they fired him and especially without a clear replacement or plan.

And to the point made above, a decent pp and 3 more wins in the shootouts would have had us in the playoff picture at the time of JM's firing.

Well, everyone got what they wished for I suppose. We were just outside the playoff window and this moronic useless firing of our coach pretty much sealed the deal for the season and brought this team back to where it was 5 years ago. Terrible.

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12-20-2011, 08:48 AM
  #92
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I just dont see how this will make us a better team.

It seems to me as if it's a panic type of decision so that PG covers his ass and doesn't get fired.

Why would you fire a vet coach, to replace him with a n00b coach that doesn't even speak french (yeah I know it's all politics) and the guy will not increase our chances of getting more wins or even making the playoffs anymore.

So either some trades are going to happen, or PG doesn't care if we make the playoffs or not this year. I dont see how this move is gonna make us compete better it sounds like we have to restart from 0 now.

I sense a cleanup or something major because this doesn't make sense to me

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12-20-2011, 08:53 AM
  #93
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I just dont see how this will make us a better team.

It seems to me as if it's a panic type of decision so that PG covers his ass and doesn't get fired.

Why would you fire a vet coach, to replace him with a n00b coach that doesn't even speak french (yeah I know it's all politics) and the guy will not increase our chances of getting more wins or even making the playoffs anymore.

So either some trades are going to happen, or PG doesn't care if we make the playoffs or not this year. I dont see how this move is gonna make us compete better it sounds like we have to restart from 0 now.

I sense a cleanup or something major because this doesn't make sense to me
To me, it's like they told me as a fan, "we're giving up on this season but we're not sure what the plan is exactly yet". Bush league. I really think had they been more patient, getting bodies back and working out the PP they'd be in the playoffs and who knows with the return of a guy like Markov that could be the spark to actually do something in the postseason.

You could sense things were starting to look up in December.

Not only that, but I think the coaching change actually took the wind out of the players. I think they liked JM as a coach a lot more than people think. Just look at the body language before the firing and after.

Brutal. Just plain brutal. At this point get GM and his circus act the **** out of here.

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12-20-2011, 08:57 AM
  #94
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I gave the benefit of the doubt for the first game. I will do so for the 2nd game but it still looks like the same decisions are being made (play on the ice cannot be rectified in two games).

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12-20-2011, 08:58 AM
  #95
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I keep reading Martin had "lost the room". I call that pure fabrication. The guys looked pretty relaxed and happy on the bench in front of him. I still can't believe they fired him and especially without a clear replacement or plan.

And to the point made above, a decent pp and 3 more wins in the shootouts would have had us in the playoff picture at the time of JM's firing.

Well, everyone got what they wished for I suppose. We were just outside the playoff window and this moronic useless firing of our coach pretty much sealed the deal for the season and brought this team back to where it was 5 years ago. Terrible.
Could not have said it any better...

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12-20-2011, 09:02 AM
  #96
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I keep reading Martin had "lost the room". I call that pure fabrication. The guys looked pretty relaxed and happy on the bench in front of him. I still can't believe they fired him and especially without a clear replacement or plan.

And to the point made above, a decent pp and 3 more wins in the shootouts would have had us in the playoff picture at the time of JM's firing.

Well, everyone got what they wished for I suppose. We were just outside the playoff window and this moronic useless firing of our coach pretty much sealed the deal for the season and brought this team back to where it was 5 years ago. Terrible.
Long overdue. If Molson executes correctly we are in a situation to break out of the chasing-eighth groundhog day model.

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12-20-2011, 09:06 AM
  #97
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Purge everything except Timmins.

Put an eye toward the best people available reguardless of language and do not allow a bias based on who they worked with before. We got the Ottawa's Senators country club here after having the Dallas Stars country club and it did nothing for us.

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12-20-2011, 09:19 AM
  #98
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Saturday - Jacques Martin fired - about time!
Saturday - Randy Cunneyworth announced as interim unilingual head coach - hmm, ok let's see how this goes
Saturday - Monday - Quebec media up in arms because Randy can't speak French - who knew this would be an issue?
Monday - G. Molson announces that their search for a new head coach will be limited to Bilingual candidates

WTF????? this is like firing a male manager, hiring a male to replace him temporarily and announcing that the permanent manager has to be a woman. Lots of incentives for the male temp manager!!!

They knew they were firing Martin. Before doing so, have the permanent bilingual replacement ready to take over.

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12-20-2011, 09:21 AM
  #99
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If it is legit that they are only going to hire a bilingual coach full-time then I will start my own twitter group with fellow Habs fans who are tired of the vocal minority ruining the team for those who just want a competitive team without all the ******** strings attached.

A day ago I was ready to spike my consumption of Molson products but now I will boycott because that's ****ing weak to give in to public pressure like that.

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12-20-2011, 09:25 AM
  #100
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Long overdue. If Molson executes correctly we are in a situation to break out of the chasing-eighth groundhog day model.
Big IF.

And I am not convinced this city, the "fans" and the media have the patience required to do that properly. Not to mention many teams have tried and failed miserably.

I'd rather be in the playoffs every year. That way your team gets used to wining and losing in the playoffs and improves each time.

People forget the Habs almost beat the Stanley Cup champs a few months ago without Pacioretty and Markov. The year before we were in the conference finals. Who knows what we could have done this year with a bit of persistence and patience.

Now we are going to rebuild? With these clowns making panic decisions? Yikes.

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