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#32|Dec. 19, 2011|Flyers at Avalanche |9:00 p.m. ET

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Old
12-20-2011, 12:33 AM
  #701
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Hey I agree he hasn't been great. He's been good enough for the Flyers to be sitting atop the East. Can't really complain too much about that. And my biggest beef (no pun intended) is just that after being on this forum for a while now, it seems that nearly every goal that is given up is "OMG he has to save that!" Lucky deflection, defensive breakdown, great offensive move are all scrutinized and Bryz (or other goalie) is murdered for it just as bad as goals that are his (or other goalies) fault. It's just funny to see people complain about the goalie no matter what the situation is. Judging by those posts, it does seem that you do expect perfection. I mean, just go look at the GDTs. I'd wager that 90% of posts after a goal are all "OMG bench this guy he sucks he should have had that!" If you complain about all the goals, how are you not demanding perfection?

I am fully anticipating the day, hopefully this year, when the Flyers win the Cup and people are complaining and saying they won it in spite of the goalie and in spite of the bad defenders, and in spite of the GM that put the team together and still complaining that Jody Shelley is ruining this team's chances and so is Bryz's albatross of a contract while he is passing the Cup to his teammates.

You aren't reading my posts then. You are, however, apparently attributing other people's posts to me. Hell, I specifically mentioned that there wasn't much Bryz could do on the first goal. It looked like he got the poke check in but Landeskog just worked around it. When a goal is just a really good goal, I don't hold it against Bryz. However, Bryz lets in a LOT of bad goals for a guy of his supposed caliber and cap hit. Our freaking backup has better stats.

I still truly don't understand how you're perfectly OK with pretty much everything Homer does.

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12-20-2011, 12:34 AM
  #702
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That save percentage is absolutely pathetic no matter the team.

Here's all 30 team's starters, to the best of my knowledge, and their save percentages:

Thomas - .943
Backstrom - .933
Lundqvist - .932
Khabibulin - .931
Howard - .928
Quick - .927
Lehtonen - .926
Rinne - .924
Theodore - .923
Smith - .919
Montoya (Isles don't really have a specific starter so w/e) - .918
Niemi - .917
Price - .914
Fleury - .914
Kiprusoff - .913
Vokoun - .906
Luongo - .905
Pavelec - .905
Garon - .905
Halak - .903
Miller - .902
Ward - .899
Gustavsson - .898
Hiller - .898
Bryzgalov - .898
Crawford - .896
Varlamov - .896
Anderson -.894
Brodeur - .886
Mason - .880

The Flyers are 17th in terms of goals against and sixth in terms of goal differential. That's middle of the pack in terms of goals against and top of the league in goal differential. Yet Bryzgalov is tied for the 25th worst save percentage out of all these starters with the likes of Hiller and Gustavsson.

In the bold are starters on teams with a worse goals against record that have better or equal save percentages to Bryz. There's nine teams that have are doing worse defensively then the Flyers that have starters that are doing just as well, and in most cases better, then Bryzgalov. That's horrendous, especially once you consider that there's only 13 teams worse then us in terms of goals against. In fact, the starter for the worst team in the league in terms of goals against has a better save percentage then Bryz (albeit by barely).

When you're a middle of the pack team defensively, there's no excuse for your starter to be posting a sub .900 save percentage. In fact, regardless of circumstances, it's very rarely okay for a starter to have a sub .900 save percentage.

An .898 save percentage is horrendous all things considered.



Like I said, for me at least, the problem extends much farther the one shootout performance.
I'm just quoting this again to emphasize that our starter, who is playing on a 1st place team and has one of the most expensive goalie contracts in the league, is ranked 25th in save percentage among starters. Yeah.

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12-20-2011, 12:35 AM
  #703
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Ha, that works both ways. The people trashing Bryz are also ones (or at least one) who will tell you the three shutouts Leighton had in the ECF against Montreal is no big deal.
And in both cases those people are right. The stats prove that Bryz isn't earning his paycheck right now and the stats prove Leighton is an AHL caliber goalie which is why he, you know, is in the AHL.

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12-20-2011, 12:38 AM
  #704
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Ha, that works both ways. The people trashing Bryz are also ones (or at least one) who will tell you the three shutouts Leighton had in the ECF against Montreal is no big deal.
Right. So, every single shutout is absolutely equal? There's no difference between earning a shutout against the worst offense in the league, and getting one against the best offense?

There's no difference between getting shutouts against a team your defense absolutely manhandles, and one who overpowers your defense?

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12-20-2011, 12:41 AM
  #705
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godammit that other stupid high paid Goalie on the west coast just had a shutout...


FML..

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12-20-2011, 12:42 AM
  #706
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
I still truly don't understand how you're perfectly OK with pretty much everything Homer does.
It just dawned on me... he literally defends every move by Paul Holmgren.

And he kept insisting that he knew that Holmgren knew some magic special information that Walker would clear re-entry waivers and then HE CLEARED!!!

DrinkFightFlyers = Paul Holmgren?

But seriously... I'm beginning to wonder...

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12-20-2011, 12:48 AM
  #707
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
You aren't reading my posts then. You are, however, apparently attributing other people's posts to me. Hell, I specifically mentioned that there wasn't much Bryz could do on the first goal. It looked like he got the poke check in but Landeskog just worked around it. When a goal is just a really good goal, I don't hold it against Bryz. However, Bryz lets in a LOT of bad goals for a guy of his supposed caliber and cap hit. Our freaking backup has better stats.
I said most posts, not all. As far as the backup having better stats, its early in the season. Talk to me later on. I've agreed with you that Bryz isn't playing well this season. I don't think anyone will argue that. But we are winning. So it doesn't matter. If they start losing and his stats aren't getting better, I'll be all over him too. But they are in first place. So why complain about him? I think we have been through this enough. We have two different philosophies on this. I don't feel like getting into a big thing.

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I still truly don't understand how you're perfectly OK with pretty much everything Homer does.
Because pretty much everything he has done has worked out. I'm not sure how you can kill him for stuff like this Bryz contract, two and a half months into it. If he wins four Cups and Vezinas what will you say then? This season isn't even half way over and you were crucifying twenty minutes after the deal was signed. It may turn out bad, but it isn't at the moment (see: NHL Standings, December 19, 2011). If things keep going this way, you won't have much too complain about, but I'm sure you will find something. If they go south, I'll be right there with you complaining, but like I said, that hasn't happened yet.

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Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
And in both cases those people are right. The stats prove that Bryz isn't earning his paycheck right now and the stats prove Leighton is an AHL caliber goalie which is why he, you know, is in the AHL.
Bryz has not been putting up the stats he should. He hasn't played like an elite goalie. But the team is in first place. That is why he is here. As far as Leighton, yeah he is an AHL goalie, but three shutouts in a conference final is not something you can just shrug off. That is a prime example of why people on here talk about the blind hate for guys like Leighton (and Homer, etc). Yes, Leighton sucks. Very bad. He made me look like a fool for defending him. But to say the Montreal shutouts had nothing to do with him is absurd.

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12-20-2011, 12:53 AM
  #708
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Right. So, every single shutout is absolutely equal? There's no difference between earning a shutout against the worst offense in the league, and getting one against the best offense?

There's no difference between getting shutouts against a team your defense absolutely manhandles, and one who overpowers your defense?


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Originally Posted by sandlansd View Post
It just dawned on me... he literally defends every move by Paul Holmgren.

And he kept insisting that he knew that Holmgren knew some magic special information that Walker would clear re-entry waivers and then HE CLEARED!!!

DrinkFightFlyers = Paul Holmgren?

But seriously... I'm beginning to wonder...
Oh I forgot about this whole scenario. Let's start this up again. I am foolish for thinking the GM talks to other GMs and knows the value of his players. That is insane! The real truth is on the internet and one guy said Homer was stupid for doing this! Oh no, it was actually two guys! The more people that say it means its even more true!

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12-20-2011, 01:29 AM
  #709
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so if Holmgren traded a 1st rounder to re-acquire Nodl would you defend it DFF?

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12-20-2011, 01:31 AM
  #710
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
I take this to mean you can't refute.

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12-20-2011, 01:31 AM
  #711
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Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
so if Holmgren traded a 1st rounder to re-acquire Nodl would you defend it DFF?
Just call him Paul... the jig is up, we can all stop pretending that we don't know who he is now.

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12-20-2011, 01:35 AM
  #712
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Hey I agree he hasn't been great. He's been good enough for the Flyers to be sitting atop the East. Can't really complain too much about that.


Do you really think they're at the top of the East because of Bryzgalov? They have the most goals per game, that's why we're at the top. They're also 18th in goals AGAINST per game, which is embarrassing considering how much they paid for Bryzgalov.

The problem is when our offense isn't scoring 4 or 5 goals a game and Bryzgalov is still letting in that many, which is probably what's going to happen every playoff game considering we'll be playing multiple games against the best goalies/defensemen in the league. So yeah, people have the right to worry/complain.


Last edited by Beef Invictus: 12-20-2011 at 01:36 AM. Reason: cleanup
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12-20-2011, 01:45 AM
  #713
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so there is defending putting Randy Jones on re-entry waivers,
having to play 2 ATO guys in a critical weekend back to back with home ice on the line
giving Leighton 3 million over 2
giving Shelley 3 million over 3
trading Gagne for Matt ****ing Walker
signing Zherdev to "replace" Gagne
trading John Carlson for Steve Eminger
putting Glenn Metroploit and Lasse Kukkonen on waivers due to the cap

I could go on, but yeah. you get the point.


guy has made some good deals as well, but lets not act his bonehead moves are few and far between

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12-20-2011, 02:58 AM
  #714
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I was bound to happen at some point in the 9 years, but I am finally at the point where I actually hate Bryzgalov.

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12-20-2011, 07:38 AM
  #715
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Bryz has not been putting up the stats he should. He hasn't played like an elite goalie. But the team is in first place. That is why he is here. As far as Leighton, yeah he is an AHL goalie, but three shutouts in a conference final is not something you can just shrug off. That is a prime example of why people on here talk about the blind hate for guys like Leighton (and Homer, etc). Yes, Leighton sucks. Very bad. He made me look like a fool for defending him. But to say the Montreal shutouts had nothing to do with him is absurd.
As I clearly pointed out before, if you think we're in first place due to goaltending then you're fooling yourself and most likely a crazy blind sheep.

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12-20-2011, 08:15 AM
  #716
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Look on the bright side. Shelley is probably gone, now he has to be waived. No way can he outplay Rinaldo or Sestito unless they do something really really stupid. Walker looked a lot better than Marshall. We are getting Lilja back (not a big boost but still better than Marshall, Gust is almost ready to go too). Zolnierczyk & Bourdon are playing well. We developing some players that can step in and play well.

We need to get a few players back if not Giroux than maybe Couturier or Schenn and wee need a fe wguys to step up JVR, Briere and obviously Bryzgalov needs to get his **** together or this city is going to eat him and his universe alive.


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12-20-2011, 08:50 AM
  #717
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Originally Posted by Granlund2Pulkkinen View Post
Guys great game. A shootout statistically always means an Avalanche win. We're 18-1 in our last 19 shootouts...

You guys are obviously still the better team, can't wait for this week's 24/7 and watching you guys dazzle us all in the Winter Classic!
Thanks for the kind words. The Avalanche showed some really good work ethic and obviously the SO skill is plentiful. Your shooters wouldn't be available on an overtime-by-overtime rental basis? Say around $10,000-20,000 per shootout? Mr. Snider will even pay shipping and handling.

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12-20-2011, 09:36 AM
  #718
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Imagine how good we'd have been in the shoot-out if we'd played a goalie too!

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12-20-2011, 10:04 AM
  #719
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Well, Bryz played well in reg and OT.
Shootout, meh.

BTW, I loved watching the 3on3
I'd be down with NHL switching to 3on3 after 5 for 5 more before a shootout.

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12-20-2011, 10:43 AM
  #720
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bryzgalovsky View Post
Do you really think they're at the top of the East because of Bryzgalov? They have the most goals per game, that's why we're at the top. They're also 18th in goals AGAINST per game, which is embarrassing considering how much they paid for Bryzgalov.

The problem is when our offense isn't scoring 4 or 5 goals a game and Bryzgalov is still letting in that many, which is probably what's going to happen every playoff game considering we'll be playing multiple games against the best goalies/defensemen in the league. So yeah, people have the right to worry/complain.
I never said they were there because of him. He's playing well enough. That's all I care about. If he was playing better, that would be awesome, but he is playing well enough to be in first so who cares.

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Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
so there is defending putting Randy Jones on re-entry waivers,
having to play 2 ATO guys in a critical weekend back to back with home ice on the line
giving Leighton 3 million over 2
giving Shelley 3 million over 3
trading Gagne for Matt ****ing Walker
signing Zherdev to "replace" Gagne
trading John Carlson for Steve Eminger
putting Glenn Metroploit and Lasse Kukkonen on waivers due to the cap

I could go on, but yeah. you get the point.


guy has made some good deals as well, but lets not act his bonehead moves are few and far between
Didn't defend Jones or the ATO situation. Leighton I did, and I still say at the time it wasn't a bad move, considering how he played the year before and the fact that they attempted to sign other goalies (not getting back into this, go look at the 500 page arguments I had with Beef and Jester if you are interested). In retrospect, yes it was a terrible move. Shelley I said it was an overpayment from the beginning. Trading Gagne for Walker was a bad trade, but it was a necessary one to set up the way the team looks now. The Eminger trade looks a lot worth with hindsight. Still not really losing sleep over Metropolit or Kukkonen (I think you mean Vannanen anyway). And all of these moves go back to the fact that these minor moves have not impacted this team nearly as much as the positives. Don't want to list them though. Getting Coburn sucked. Making all of those good college signings was another blunder at worst and 100% luck at best. Putting together the rest of this cup contending team was also pure luck and terrible moves. If a guy that is this bad at his job can put together this good of a team, I really want to know what a good GM could do. We'd have twelve more Cups by next year!

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Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
As I clearly pointed out before, if you think we're in first place due to goaltending then you're fooling yourself and most likely a crazy blind sheep.
Again, not because of him, but he obviously isn't hurting the team if they keep winning. (I know his numbers aren't good and he really should be playing better, but as long as they keep winning it doesn't matter).

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12-20-2011, 11:21 AM
  #721
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Originally Posted by Cmoneyflyguy View Post
Well, Bryz played well in reg and OT.
Shootout, meh.

BTW, I loved watching the 3on3
I'd be down with NHL switching to 3on3 after 5 for 5 more before a shootout.
Agreed, watching the 3 on 3 was a blast, and I had a great view. There were almost as many Flyers fans as Av's fans there.


The shootout was a heart breaker especially after the last second tying goal and how good we looked in OT. Bryz needed to save at least one of those.

Edit: Anyone know what came of Harry Z after he ran into the boards? Dont remember seeing him after that.


Last edited by sectachrome: 12-20-2011 at 11:53 AM.
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12-20-2011, 12:02 PM
  #722
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Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
so there is defending putting Randy Jones on re-entry waivers,
having to play 2 ATO guys in a critical weekend back to back with home ice on the line
giving Leighton 3 million over 2
giving Shelley 3 million over 3
trading Gagne for Matt ****ing Walker
signing Zherdev to "replace" Gagne

trading John Carlson for Steve Eminger
putting Glenn Metroploit and Lasse Kukkonen on waivers due to the cap

I could go on, but yeah. you get the point.


guy has made some good deals as well, but lets not act his bonehead moves are few and far between
Well, Leighton got hurt, otherwise, I'm pretty sure he would have been our starter in 2010-11. Not saying that he could have been an elite starter, but a decent one, probably. We can say whatever we want about him, he's been good with us in the NHL, no matter what his AHL stats are. That includes before the playoff run, the 4-5 shutouts that he had against Boston and Mtl (when they had poor offense, but still, he's been perfect on these games, you can't ask more... and actually Fleury wasn't able to do that against Mtl...). 1,5M, after that, was a fair salary. And anyway now, his cap hit doesn't even count. Shelley, well, that sucked, yeah. It's bolded because I'm too lazy to bold each one at a time. Gagne for Walker was a salary dump, nothing else. I love the guy, but he was injury prone. We used that cap hit acquired to get Meszaros. The trade was essentially Gagne + 2nd for Meszaros, Walker and a 4th. Considering Gagne's injuries, it wasn't a bad move. He hasn't been that good for the Bolts. Still, it was harsh to see the guy having to leave, but hockeywise, it had to be done. The Zherdev signing, well, it was a gamble, with low risk and high reward. The guy was a former 4th overall pick and has a big big potential. We paid him only 2M, imagine if it worked out? It didn't, sadly, but it wasn't that bad. His job wasn't to replace Gagne at all.

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12-20-2011, 12:14 PM
  #723
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Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
so there is defending putting Randy Jones on re-entry waivers,
having to play 2 ATO guys in a critical weekend back to back with home ice on the line
giving Leighton 3 million over 2
giving Shelley 3 million over 3
trading Gagne for Matt ****ing Walker
signing Zherdev to "replace" Gagne
trading John Carlson for Steve Eminger
putting Glenn Metroploit and Lasse Kukkonen on waivers due to the cap

I could go on, but yeah. you get the point.


guy has made some good deals as well, but lets not act his bonehead moves are few and far between
Jones - Mistake. No defending.
Leighton - $1.5m a year isn't a great amount and he's spent a lot of that in the minors so who cares? He'd earned a contract, he'd played well with us up until the contract.
Shelley - Mistake, but still not much is it?
Gagne - Played like crap after we sold him, we saved a lot of money there.
Eminger - We didn't trade Carlson for him, we traded a first round pick. Bad trade, but not worth getting so wound up over.
Metropolit and Kukkonen - They both suck so badly it's amusing that you have to resort to using them as an argument.

Shall we start listing all the good things he's done? It'll be amusing listing all the good ones that he was initially criticised for doing too.

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12-20-2011, 12:19 PM
  #724
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Agreed, watching the 3 on 3 was a blast, and I had a great view. There were almost as many Flyers fans as Av's fans there.


The shootout was a heart breaker especially after the last second tying goal and how good we looked in OT. Bryz needed to save at least one of those.

Edit: Anyone know what came of Harry Z after he ran into the boards? Dont remember seeing him after that.
Pretty sure I saw him on the ice for a few in the third. I could be wrong though.

As for the Flyers fan presence...I could of sworn I heard a "let's go Flyers" chant at one point.

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12-20-2011, 12:52 PM
  #725
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Originally Posted by 1865 View Post
Jones - Mistake. No defending.
Leighton - $1.5m a year isn't a great amount and he's spent a lot of that in the minors so who cares? He'd earned a contract, he'd played well with us up until the contract.
Shelley - Mistake, but still not much is it?
Gagne - Played like crap after we sold him, we saved a lot of money there.
Eminger - We didn't trade Carlson for him, we traded a first round pick. Bad trade, but not worth getting so wound up over.
Metropolit and Kukkonen - They both suck so badly it's amusing that you have to resort to using them as an argument.

Shall we start listing all the good things he's done? It'll be amusing listing all the good ones that he was initially criticised for doing too.

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