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Old
12-20-2011, 02:59 PM
  #76
Born in 1909
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Make the playoffs everytime.

Although with the loser-reward NHL draft system, the suckiest teams win big with great draft picks.

Thus you get fans who want their team to lose.

So wrong...

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Old
12-20-2011, 03:20 PM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Did you actually WATCH the games or is it more fun hiding behind numbers?
Numbers are often misleading. There are anomalies. But if we still have the same numbers come February, you have to begin to ask, are the numbers being misleading all the time.

If in February we are looking like we are right now, I think we have to sell some players. And I think that will happen.

To make the Boston/Philly Comparison again, here is the trend for the past four years:

Boston
2008-2009: 1st place
2009-2010: 6th place
2010-2011: 3rd (Cup winners)
2011-2012: 1st place so far

Philly
2008-2009: 5th place
2009-2010: 7th place
2010-2011: 2nd place
2011-2012: 2nd place so far

Habs
2008-2009: 8th place
2009-2010: 8th place
2010-2011: 6th place
2011-2012: 12th place so far

You called the Bruins a weak team. But they have finished in the top four for 3 of the last four years and the year in which you say they were weak, the finished 6th which was the highest position we finished in over the past four years.

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12-20-2011, 03:22 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Born in 1909 View Post
Make the playoffs everytime.
I don't want us try to lose. But if we are no better by February, I want us to do some selling.

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12-20-2011, 03:23 PM
  #79
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12-20-2011, 03:24 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jefferiah View Post
Numbers are often misleading. There are anomalies. But if we still have the same numbers come February, you have to begin to ask, are the numbers being misleading all the time.

If in February we are looking like we are right now, I think we have to sell some players. And I think that will happen.

To make the Boston/Philly Comparison again, here is the trend for the past four years:

Boston
2008-2009: 1st place
2009-2010: 6th place
2010-2011: 3rd (Cup winners)
2011-2012: 1st place so far

Philly
2008-2009: 5th place
2009-2010: 7th place
2010-2011: 2nd place
2011-2012: 2nd place so far

Habs
2008-2009: 8th place
2009-2010: 8th place
2010-2011: 6th place
2011-2012: 12th place so far

You called the Bruins a weak team. But they have finished in the top four for 3 of the last four years and the year in which you say they were weak, the finished 6th which was the highest position we finished in over the past four years.
I noticed that you conveniently left out 07-08...priceless!

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Old
12-20-2011, 03:26 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
I noticed that you conveniently left out 07-08...priceless!
I noticed that too. Selection bias.

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Old
12-20-2011, 03:26 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
I noticed that you conveniently left out 07-08...priceless!
I would have left out 08-09 as well, except that it was relevant pertaining to the Bruins.

We do not have that team anymore. We still had them in 08-09. But I am also trying to show the trend for Boston, since they have kept pretty much the same core since that point.

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Old
12-20-2011, 03:27 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
I noticed that you conveniently left out 07-08...priceless!
Yes 1st place finish, barely eliminated Boston and got destroyed by Philly

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Old
12-20-2011, 03:28 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Did you actually WATCH the games or is it more fun hiding behind numbers?
Every single one of them, Boston was by far a better hockey team, one that can't admit that is completely blind!

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Old
12-20-2011, 03:29 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
Yes 1st place finish, barely eliminated Boston and got destroyed by Philly
Yes, and 07-08 the Bruins finished, gasp, 8th, and the Flyers, gasp, 6th.

Selection bias, like I said.

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12-20-2011, 03:31 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldplay View Post
Yes, and 07-08 the Bruins finished, gasp, 8th, and the Flyers, gasp, 6th.

Selection bias, like I said.
The Bruins and Flyers have had the same cores through the years I have shown, and earlier.

We have not however.
The 2007-2008 team is a different team altogether.

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Old
12-20-2011, 03:31 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Coldplay View Post
Yes, and 07-08 the Bruins finished, gasp, 8th, and the Flyers, gasp, 6th.

Selection bias, like I said.
Not sure why he didn't post that year but the bottom line is that since then 4 years the Bruins have being always higher then the Habs and to be honest I don't see that changing in the next few years

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12-20-2011, 03:33 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Habsolument90 View Post
Always a classic

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Old
12-20-2011, 03:34 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
Not sure why he didn't post that year but the bottom line is that since then 4 years the Bruins have being always higher then the Habs and to be honest I don't see that changing in the next few years
I did not post it because that was a totally different team.

If you want argue that Kovalev and Koivu and Komisarek and Higgins are just having an off year and that's why we are in 12th, then it is relevant.

I do realize that we also had that same team in 2008-2009, but I used that year since the Bruins have not changed their core. Basically to show that core they have has finished 1st, 6th, 3rd with a cup and now 1st. So that in 2010, their 6th finish which is also our best in 4 years, was most likely an anomaly, not a weak team.

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12-20-2011, 03:37 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by jefferiah View Post
I did not post it because that was a totally different team.

If you want argue that Kovalev and Koivu and Komisarek and Higgins are just having an off year and that's why we are in 12th, then it is relevant.

I do realize that we also had that same team in 2008-2009, but I used that year since the Bruins have not changed their core. Basically to show that core they have has finished 1st, 6th, 3rd with a cup and now 1st. So that in 2010, their 6th finish which is also our best in 4 years, was most likely an anomaly, not a weak team.
Wasn't sure but I'm on the same page as you

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Old
12-20-2011, 03:37 PM
  #91
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A week ago, with the acquisition of Kaberle and after having picked up at least one point in every game in December minus the Chris Lee sideshow I would have and was 100% behind this and really believed and was excited for games again. We were solid 5 on 5, very strong on the PK, solid goaltending. You never know.

Now I just don't see how the team can focus on hockey and I'm not quite sure I care whether they get in or not. The firing of the coach took me from looking forward to and planning around game nights to not really caring. I don't really ever remember feeling that kind of apathy towards this organization.
Yeah, this is my concern. The firing of Martin has destabilized the team IMO. You've given the reins to a guy under ridiculous circumstances: the team is currently injury riddled, they are playing top teams, you have a guy behind the bench that's never even coached before, and you've created a **** storm with the language issue. On top of this, the owner has basically said (barring some miracle) that Cunney is gone at the end of the season. So if you're a player, what are you thinking? Well, regardless of what system he puts in place, regardless of what he says, there's a good chance things will change next year anyways. Consciously or unconsciously, this can really only have a negative effect on their motivation and their play.

Look, when everyone is healthy, I think we have a pretty competitive team here. Before we go selling off this player or that one, the first thing we need is a stable front office and a coaching staff with a definite vision and long term direction. Without that stability, I don't care who you have, the players will not play up to their potential. Once that's settled, then we can start fiddling with the pieces.

Bottom line: I'm just pissed at management for how this season has been handled. It seems the Canadiens have really turned into a Mickey Mouse organization. The fans deserve better than this. If the management really cared about the team, as opposed to their own ego's, they'd realize the damage their doing and step aside to let someone else give it a go. So, yeah, I can understand the apathy you feel; it's hit me more this year than at any time in the recent past. The only thing left to do is to pray to the Hockey God's for some minor miracle to save this organization from being sucked back into the Black Houle. For the love of all that's Habby, God no!!!!

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Old
12-20-2011, 03:41 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
Wasn't sure but I'm on the same page as you
I am still hoping for a huge turn around. I watch the games win or lose, and I hope we win them. I am not going to say no to a miracle. But if the deadline comes and we are pretty much playing like now, we have to sell. We have gone too many years giving up picks just to finish 8th. And we pay through the nose to ice a team that does only that.

Even teams doing well haven't been afraid to sell. Boston sold Kessel for instance after a 1st place season. We are scared to get rid of anyone who might possibly score 20 goals next year.


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Old
12-20-2011, 03:46 PM
  #93
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Yeah, this is my concern. The firing of Martin has destabilized the team IMO. You've given the reins to a guy under ridiculous circumstances: the team is currently injury riddled, they are playing top teams, you have a guy behind the bench that's never even coached before, and you've created a **** storm with the language issue. On top of this, the owner has basically said (barring some miracle) that Cunney is gone at the end of the season. So if you're a player, what are you thinking? Well, regardless of what system he puts in place, regardless of what he says, there's a good chance things will change next year anyways. Consciously or unconsciously, this can really only have a negative effect on their motivation and their play.

Look, when everyone is healthy, I think we have a pretty competitive team here. Before we go selling off this player or that one, the first thing we need is a stable front office and a coaching staff with a definite vision and long term direction. Without that stability, I don't care who you have, the players will not play up to their potential. Once that's settled, then we can start fiddling with the pieces.

Bottom line: I'm just pissed at management for how this season has been handled. It seems the Canadiens have really turned into a Mickey Mouse organization. The fans deserve better than this. If the management really cared about the team, as opposed to their own ego's, they'd realize the damage their doing and step aside to let someone else give it a go. So, yeah, I can understand the apathy you feel; it's hit me more this year than at any time in the recent past. The only thing left to do is to pray to the Hockey God's for some minor miracle to save this organization from being sucked back into the Black Houle. For the love of all that's Habby, God no!!!!
Bang on. Bad move at the wrong time.

Unless something really serious happened behind the closed doors...

For me it was a panic move by Goathier to save his own ass.

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Old
12-20-2011, 03:50 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
Every single one of them, Boston was by far a better hockey team, one that can't admit that is completely blind!
********. Vancouver had the better team but Boston got great goaltending and Vancouver's **** the bed.

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12-20-2011, 03:51 PM
  #95
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I think the honeymoon with the habs post lockout era is ending. Only some will remain fans and will want their team to win as much as possible.

I agree with PG when he says anything can happen in the playoffs in modern NHL.

Just make the ****ing playoffs.

I think I'll have to be less of a hardcore fan if I don't want to be brainwashed in the negativity campaign going on for a couple months.

I think I'll take a break of these forums and stop reading everything there is to read about my favorite team, since 95% focuses on the negative aspects. It's just not as much fun as it used to be, when everyfans were going in the same direction. My objectivity radar needs a break.

I'll comeback when things will start getting better again.

****ing GO HABS GO!!!!

See ya!


Last edited by HeShootsHeScores: 12-20-2011 at 03:58 PM.
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Old
12-20-2011, 03:53 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Habs_Apostle View Post
You've given the reins to a guy under ridiculous circumstances: the team is currently injury riddled, they are playing top teams, you have a guy behind the bench that's never even coached before, and you've created a **** storm with the language issue. On top of this, the owner has basically said (barring some miracle) that Cunney is gone at the end of the season. !!!!
I am not saying Cunneyworth is the best guy for the job, but this is peanuts right now. We weren't winning either way. Molson hasn't destabilized anything. We create the **** storms. We yell and fuss and then say someone else is creating a situation, when we are the situation. Look at me, I am yelling and fussing, see what you did, you caused people to yell and fuss. He is just an interim guy. Firing Martin is basically what happens before Gauthier is gone.

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12-20-2011, 04:13 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by habitue View Post
Bang on. Bad move at the wrong time.

Unless something really serious happened behind the closed doors...

For me it was a panic move by Goathier to save his own ass.
I don't know. He doesn't strike me as the type to panic. The timing seemed very weird and uncharacteristic.

I mean his trade for Kaberle was just starting to pay dividends. The PP looked instantly better and we were 2-1 with Kaberle, with the loss being a Chris Lee gong show, against Philly no less.

Whether it was a reactionary firing from a rumored argument, or pressure from someone higher up, it's moot since it pretty much sealed his faith. We probably miss the playoffs and he should be gone by season's end.

RC is not a better coach than JM and won't get more out of this bunch than his predecessor. That is where my apathy comes from. With the team under JM, I knew what I was getting. Even with a depleted roster and underwhelming forwards, the team would compete against anyone and could always surprise.

Now with all this **** storm, who knows what to expect. From what we've seen so far, nothing remotely encouraging.

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Old
12-20-2011, 04:36 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by jefferiah View Post
Numbers are often misleading. There are anomalies. But if we still have the same numbers come February, you have to begin to ask, are the numbers being misleading all the time.

If in February we are looking like we are right now, I think we have to sell some players. And I think that will happen.

To make the Boston/Philly Comparison again, here is the trend for the past four years:

Boston
2008-2009: 1st place
2009-2010: 6th place
2010-2011: 3rd (Cup winners)
2011-2012: 1st place so far

Philly
2008-2009: 5th place
2009-2010: 7th place
2010-2011: 2nd place
2011-2012: 2nd place so far

Habs
2008-2009: 8th place
2009-2010: 8th place
2010-2011: 6th place
2011-2012: 12th place so far

You called the Bruins a weak team. But they have finished in the top four for 3 of the last four years and the year in which you say they were weak, the finished 6th which was the highest position we finished in over the past four years.
What I find amusing is your cross section intentionally missed 07-08 where the Habs finished 1st.

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Old
12-20-2011, 04:42 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by LesHabsRock View Post
What I find amusing is your cross section intentionally missed 07-08 where the Habs finished 1st.
You are not the first person to mention this. And this will not be the first time I have explained why.

But I will explain again why I left that season out.

That team is no longer here. 07-08 Habs is a different team altogether. I do realize that we did have that same core in 08-09 which I did include. Why did I include that year? Mainly for the purposes of displaying the trend with Boston who has maintained the same core throughout that four year period.

I was using that figure initially because another poster said that the Bruins were a weak team in 2009-2010 and went on to win the cup the next year. I was arguing against his assertion that the Bruins were weak in that season by showing that it was probably just an underachievement season. That same basic club, has gone from 1st, to 6th in that season, to 3rd with a cup, and now to 1st. So 6th place would appear to be the anomaly and just a bad year. For us, our current core is only in its third year, so perhaps it would have been just as well for me to show the Habs since 09-10. But the Bruins core has been around longer. So I included the fourth year back to show that their core has done pretty well.

To put it differently, the current Bruins core has gone 1st, 6th, 3rd with a cup, and they are currently in first. All indications are they will probably finish in the top four this season. Not saying that is written in stone. Not saying the Bruins are the best team ever, or they will win the cup again. But it looks as if the Bruins are on their way to finishing in the top 4 for the 3rd time in the past 4 years.

Our team was blown up, so as for that lineup with Kovalev, Koivu, Streit, Higgins.....we might as well be talking about the Dog River River Dogs, they are irrelevant, they do not play here anymore. As one poster said last night in the PGT, Kovalev was invisible. The CH on the sweater and a few players are still around, but that's it. So, let's look at the past three seasons for our current lineup then. We have 8th, 6th and now reaching 8th might not even happen this year. So we have clung to the bottom 4 in the playoffs for two of the past three years (with our core which has been around 3 years), and this year even reaching 8th is questionable. Our best finish, 6th, is what that poster called a weak Bruins team.

Now, I really do not think we are as terrible as some people think. I am not trying to be all doom and gloom, or saying we suck. I think this club has a lot of positives. I think injuries effect our bad outcomes to some degree, and maybe a bit of good luck has shone upon some teams that are doing better than us. Numbers are not everything. But we have not been very consistent for quite a while now. And I think if we are still sitting beneath 8th in February we should do a little selling, it does not have to be a fire sale. Even good teams sell. Boston sold Kessel after a good season. Philly moved Carter and Richards (not exactly selling) but not the type of thing we have seen from the Habs either. We try to make 8th, even when it costs us picks just to keep our team going. We have held on to UFA's to just make the playoffs, only to see them walk with nothing to show for it.


Last edited by andy28: 12-20-2011 at 09:06 PM.
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12-20-2011, 08:27 PM
  #100
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The holier-than-thou people who think it is disgusting for their team to want them to lose really need to quiet down.

Accepting a sacrifice (which would be to endure losing seasons; tough to do) for the sake of the greater good. Is a sign of a more devoted fan than one who is happy to toil in mediocrity.

I want to win. That is all I want. I want to be one of the best teams night in and night out. I do not wanna hope for a miracle run from the 8th seed. I want to see a superstar in the Habs uniform again.

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