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Jacques Martin Fired V2.0

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Old
12-20-2011, 11:03 AM
  #101
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Well it appears that the media and a majority of Hab fans will have their way... the HAB management are flailing in all directions trying to appease the talking heads. Might as well just put a poll out on the Hab website and let the majority decide all major team decision - its really looking like amateur hour at the moment.

Whats funny and sad at the same time is that the same people requesting a blowup after 1/3 of an average start to the season, expect to be able to put up with 2-3 years of the team sucking. Now imagine in 2-3 years that some of our picks are not developing as fast as expected... guess what happens. Thats right these same people will be crying about idiot management not being able to draft and/or properly develop players and demand major moves.

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Old
12-20-2011, 12:49 PM
  #102
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Well it appears that the media and a majority of Hab fans will have their way... the HAB management are flailing in all directions trying to appease the talking heads. Might as well just put a poll out on the Hab website and let the majority decide all major team decision - its really looking like amateur hour at the moment.

Whats funny and sad at the same time is that the same people requesting a blowup after 1/3 of an average start to the season, expect to be able to put up with 2-3 years of the team sucking. Now imagine in 2-3 years that some of our picks are not developing as fast as expected... guess what happens. Thats right these same people will be crying about idiot management not being able to draft and/or properly develop players and demand major moves.
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Old
12-20-2011, 04:20 PM
  #103
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This organization is looking more and more like the Leafs...appease the fans...moves being made simply for the sake of making a move.

Pure optics over any actual hockey decisions.

If Gauthier was a blowhard, the Habs would be the Leafs 2.0.



Stanley cup is secondary....fill the rink and shill the merchandise.

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Old
12-20-2011, 04:25 PM
  #104
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Not sure where to get an answer for this question so I'll try here.


I keep reading in other forums as well as this one that there was a veteran revolt against Martin in the dressing room. Led by Cammy.

Where is there evidence of this, or at least are there any stories I've missed because I can't find any info. just people stating that this is what happened.

Can someone enlighten me please?

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Old
12-20-2011, 04:29 PM
  #105
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I can't believe some guys are pissed Martin is gone.

-He sucked the talent and physical edge out of the team to play "his" system.

-He not only benched the kids after 1 mistake on a constent basis, he was even publically blaming them for the losses, making matter 100x worse.

-He basically singlehandidely ruined Latendresse, Lapierre, Sergei Kostitsyn and Pouliot (who had a good run before dropping to the 3rd line for Moen.

-He would not put any of the vets in their place (Gomez)

-He pushed talented wingers down for grinders like Moen for several weeks, regular season and playoffs included.

Defending him is looking to complain...

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Old
12-20-2011, 04:37 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by SAKS AVENUE View Post
Not sure where to get an answer for this question so I'll try here.


I keep reading in other forums as well as this one that there was a veteran revolt against Martin in the dressing room. Led by Cammy.

Where is there evidence of this, or at least are there any stories I've missed because I can't find any info. just people stating that this is what happened.

Can someone enlighten me please?
There is no evidence. (except for laraque and couple of 990 rumors) Even darche last night said the teams performances has nothing to do with the changes "around the team" and that no more changes are necessary, and that it's up to the team to perform.

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Old
12-20-2011, 04:47 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by SAKS AVENUE View Post
Not sure where to get an answer for this question so I'll try here.


I keep reading in other forums as well as this one that there was a veteran revolt against Martin in the dressing room. Led by Cammy.

Where is there evidence of this, or at least are there any stories I've missed because I can't find any info. just people stating that this is what happened.

Can someone enlighten me please?
Sometimes you have to make your own deductions. I don't know if Martin lost the team or not but it is clear to me that the team that played against Boston last night looked very different from the team I watched the past few games. They skated harder for three periods, they forechecked harder, the defensemen pinched and all four lines played. They looked more like a TEAM.

Very few players looked like they were walking on egg shells, they weren't tentative, they looked like they had a better idea of what their responsibilities were.

There were certainly mistakes made but whether it is Cunneyworth coaching the team or a bilingual successor, it was refreshing to see and I hope it continues (not the mistakes... just the level of effort)

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Old
12-20-2011, 05:21 PM
  #108
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This is how I felt when I found out about Martin's firing:

GIFSoup

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Old
12-20-2011, 05:30 PM
  #109
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I am missing Martin already...

Gauthier should had waited after the game against NJ.

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Old
12-20-2011, 05:47 PM
  #110
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To tell you the truth, I am disheartened and saddened by all of this. I have been a Canadiens fan for over 45 years and I live in Western Canada. There are a lot of us, more than many would think. We have remained loyal fans and have followed and supported our team by any and every means at our disposal. Before the arrival of the internet it was not easy living on the prairires and keeping updated on our team. Nevertheless we have remained staunch and loyal supporters throughout.

We saw no difference between Laperriere and Harper, between Lapointe and Robinson, between Shutt and Lemaire. We loved Scotty Bowman and despised Irving Grundman. We were and still are unconditionally supportive of the team. When an individual can help the team he is in our good books, when he is a detriment he is in our bad books.

We look at Montreal, this icon of hockey and think, "Wow, the MONTREAL Canadiens." It is a part of what makes your city and your province great. We do not think about the components of the team and no one else outside of the the city and province do either. When people outside of Quebec talk about the team they talk about the avid and knowledgeable fans who hold the team dear to their hearts.

With this vicious backlash, the spotlight is cast upon the wonderful fans of this great team. The team has been thrust into the background while more people talk about the crazy environment that has been developed.

What has been accomplished.

The Canadiens will likely bow to pressure and hire a coach who can speak French. One job for a Francophone will be saved but at what cost. Has the perception of Montreal by outsiders been poisoned? There are unintended consequences of every action and no one knows what they will be. It could be subtle or it could be a backlash. Perhaps a highly skilled free agent may look at what has happened and strike the Canadiens off his list. Perhaps it would be a highly coveted executive or coach that declines.

We already know that some Francophone players want nothing to do with playing in Montreal. After experiencing the world outside of Quebec, players like Daniel Briere have chosen not to return. It could get worse. Could the list grow to include highly respected coaching or managerial candidates. It might not, but it could. Who needs the kinds of headaches that seem to accompany every move you make, especially when these headaches have nothing to do with whether you are good at your job.

Setting up barriers to success threatens the iconic status of the Montreal Canadiens. As fans, we are already living in the past and that could continue.

The team will always be the MONTREAL Canadiens. No one will say, they are the Montreal Canadiens with the English coach or the Montreal Canadiens with the French coach. If I lived in Montreal I would welcome with open arms, ANYONE who could make my team better and help them regain their former glory. I would let them do what they do best, whether it is playing or coaching or managing because they would be helping an institution in which I have a great deal of pride.

For those of us outside of Quebec, we support that pride you have in your team. It is truly a great institution and we hate to see it diminished for the wrong reasons. We also see the Canadiens as a bridge between our cultures, a piece of common ground that we both support and love. We do not want to see anything that threatens that bridge.

This is not about whether Randy Cunneyworth is a good coach or a bad coach. Only time will tell that. It is about the reaction to his hiring that is so wrong. No one said it was permanent and even if they did, everyone knows that no coaching job is permanent. Yet he is being crucified after only two games. That kind of intolerance tarnishes the image of your great city and great province and it does nothing to help the team you hold in such high esteem. While that intolerance may or may not be in the minority, those voices have branded an unfavourable image in the minds of many.

As I said, I am disheartened and saddened. The Canadiens will always be my team but this vitriolic reaction has subdued my passion for the sport. I had hoped we had grown past that.

And for those who think it is important, my ancestors on my mother's side of the family came to Canada from France in the 1670's to settle in the Montreal area.

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Old
12-20-2011, 05:48 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Maxpac View Post
I can't believe some guys are pissed Martin is gone.

-He sucked the talent and physical edge out of the team to play "his" system.

-He not only benched the kids after 1 mistake on a constent basis, he was even publically blaming them for the losses, making matter 100x worse.

-He basically singlehandidely ruined Latendresse, Lapierre, Sergei Kostitsyn and Pouliot (who had a good run before dropping to the 3rd line for Moen.

-He would not put any of the vets in their place (Gomez)

-He pushed talented wingers down for grinders like Moen for several weeks, regular season and playoffs included.

Defending him is looking to complain...
Didnt see any more physicality since JM's gone... but I did see Moen on Plekanec line and Darche playing A LOT...

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Old
12-20-2011, 05:52 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
Didnt see any more physicality since JM's gone... but I did see Moen on Plekanec line and Darche playing A LOT...
I don't know if there was more physicality but I thought there was more effort and more cohesiveness.

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Old
12-20-2011, 05:55 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by HCH View Post
To tell you the truth, I am disheartened and saddened by all of this. I have been a Canadiens fan for over 45 years and I live in Western Canada. There are a lot of us, more than many would think. We have remained loyal fans and have followed and supported our team by any and every means at our disposal. Before the arrival of the internet it was not easy living on the prairires and keeping updated on our team. Nevertheless we have remained staunch and loyal supporters throughout.

We saw no difference between Laperriere and Harper, between Lapointe and Robinson, between Shutt and Lemaire. We loved Scotty Bowman and despised Irving Grundman. We were and still are unconditionally supportive of the team. When an individual can help the team he is in our good books, when he is a detriment he is in our bad books.

We look at Montreal, this icon of hockey and think, "Wow, the MONTREAL Canadiens." It is a part of what makes your city and your province great. We do not think about the components of the team and no one else outside of the the city and province do either. When people outside of Quebec talk about the team they talk about the avid and knowledgeable fans who hold the team dear to their hearts.

With this vicious backlash, the spotlight is cast upon the wonderful fans of this great team. The team has been thrust into the background while more people talk about the crazy environment that has been developed.

What has been accomplished.

The Canadiens will likely bow to pressure and hire a coach who can speak French. One job for a Francophone will be saved but at what cost. Has the perception of Montreal by outsiders been poisoned? There are unintended consequences of every action and no one knows what they will be. It could be subtle or it could be a backlash. Perhaps a highly skilled free agent may look at what has happened and strike the Canadiens off his list. Perhaps it would be a highly coveted executive or coach that declines.

We already know that some Francophone players want nothing to do with playing in Montreal. After experiencing the world outside of Quebec, players like Daniel Briere have chosen not to return. It could get worse. Could the list grow to include highly respected coaching or managerial candidates. It might not, but it could. Who needs the kinds of headaches that seem to accompany every move you make, especially when these headaches have nothing to do with whether you are good at your job.

Setting up barriers to success threatens the iconic status of the Montreal Canadiens. As fans, we are already living in the past and that could continue.

The team will always be the MONTREAL Canadiens. No one will say, they are the Montreal Canadiens with the English coach or the Montreal Canadiens with the French coach. If I lived in Montreal I would welcome with open arms, ANYONE who could make my team better and help them regain their former glory. I would let them do what they do best, whether it is playing or coaching or managing because they would be helping an institution in which I have a great deal of pride.

For those of us outside of Quebec, we support that pride you have in your team. It is truly a great institution and we hate to see it diminished for the wrong reasons. We also see the Canadiens as a bridge between our cultures, a piece of common ground that we both support and love. We do not want to see anything that threatens that bridge.

This is not about whether Randy Cunneyworth is a good coach or a bad coach. Only time will tell that. It is about the reaction to his hiring that is so wrong. No one said it was permanent and even if they did, everyone knows that no coaching job is permanent. Yet he is being crucified after only two games. That kind of intolerance tarnishes the image of your great city and great province and it does nothing to help the team you hold in such high esteem. While that intolerance may or may not be in the minority, those voices have branded an unfavourable image in the minds of many.

As I said, I am disheartened and saddened. The Canadiens will always be my team but this vitriolic reaction has subdued my passion for the sport. I had hoped we had grown past that.

And for those who think it is important, my ancestors on my mother's side of the family came to Canada from France in the 1670's to settle in the Montreal area.
great post. i truly expect Molson recognizes that this great franchise needs great solutions. i think he will be inventive in his decisions

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Old
12-20-2011, 06:07 PM
  #114
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great post. i truly expect Molson recognizes that this great franchise needs great solutions. i think he will be inventive in his decisions
You think too much I believe... Media has more influence than you think. But that's my opinion

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Old
12-20-2011, 06:15 PM
  #115
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Didnt see any more physicality since JM's gone... but I did see Moen on Plekanec line and Darche playing A LOT...
After 2 games? Wow, that was quite the statement.

1st of all, the team is still Martin made for now. I think the change will come after this season, but I expect the current team to be more and more on the forecheck instead of always containing the offense. Moen is only playing on the 1st line this time because Gionta is out, he'll go down to the 4th line (I hope so) when Gio is healthy and ready.

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Old
12-21-2011, 12:28 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by SAKS AVENUE View Post
Not sure where to get an answer for this question so I'll try here.


I keep reading in other forums as well as this one that there was a veteran revolt against Martin in the dressing room. Led by Cammy.

Where is there evidence of this, or at least are there any stories I've missed because I can't find any info. just people stating that this is what happened.

Can someone enlighten me please?
In my mind, this is clearly, completely and utterly bull*! If there's one thing consistent with JM, that would be how he treats veterans. Cammy would be the last one to complaint considering how JM is using him. A revolt led by Cammy??? WTF? N'importe quoi...

Why do people believe in this type of crap from the media? The same old stinking trick from the media and there's still enough people taking the bait, every time.

One freaking "good showing" against the Bruins means nothing in the grand scheme of things. If it means anything, it simply means that they almost always play solid against the Bruins. It could mean they just want to get that first win for the new coach and have that behind them. It could mean that that night, they just felt like playing. (BTW, what about that game vs NJ? They looked very different too? Losing in the 3rd period like they often did this season. Oh right, it was only the first game with Conneyworth as headcoach -- that doesn't count. lol) People read too much in these insignificant little things and people read too much what the media says.


Last edited by Poulet Kostopoulos: 12-21-2011 at 12:43 PM.
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Old
12-21-2011, 12:39 PM
  #117
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Two things to add:

1) To the people (including Mike Boone) who are commenting on how the team looks the same since the change and maybe it wasn't Martin's fault - are you serious? Did you think you'd blink and we'd be Detroit? It takes a long time to correct an off-course ship. We'll be lucky if it looks much better by the New Year. Give it time. Being smug now is just cheap.

2) About the locker room mutiny.... I think it's b.s. too. Cammy is taking the blame because he is currently the poster boy for under-achieving vets and the one least likely to love Martin's style given his own attributes. I highly doubt there was any official, vocally-discussed mutiny. If anything, it was an insidious malaise that set in. i.e. a sub-conscious mutiny.

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12-21-2011, 12:44 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by SAKS AVENUE View Post
Not sure where to get an answer for this question so I'll try here.


I keep reading in other forums as well as this one that there was a veteran revolt against Martin in the dressing room. Led by Cammy.

Where is there evidence of this, or at least are there any stories I've missed because I can't find any info. just people stating that this is what happened.

Can someone enlighten me please?
Mitch Melnyk's blog talked about veteran players openly telling Martin to 'shut up' on the bench. Cammy's name wasn't mentioned but that could be where those folks are getting it from.

Melnyk's article talks about how the players had really reached the breaking point with JM and he argues that it was well past time for him to leave. I have a hard time believing that players would actually chirp their coach on the bench like that but that's what Melnyk wrote.

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12-21-2011, 12:48 PM
  #119
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Mitch Melnyk's blog talked about veteran players openly telling Martin to 'shut up' on the bench. Cammy's name wasn't mentioned but that could be where those folks are getting it from.

Melnyk's article talks about how the players had really reached the breaking point with JM and he argues that it was well past time for him to leave. I have a hard time believing that players would actually chirp their coach on the bench like that but that's what Melnyk wrote.
If that really happened, I think Marc Denis would be the VERY first guy to report that "bomb" live, wouldn't he? He's standing right next to the bench every freaking game.

So total BS.

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12-21-2011, 12:54 PM
  #120
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If that really happened, I think Marc Denis would be the VERY first guy to report that "bomb" live, wouldn't he? He's standing right next to the bench every freaking game.

So total BS.
I dunno. I'm sure that the only reason marc denis is even allowed there by the Canadiens is because he is under strict orders not to report anything that might damage the team's image. If he or RDS ever reported that (not saying it's true), that'd be the end of him getting to be near the bench.

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12-21-2011, 12:57 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Mitch Melnyk's blog talked about veteran players openly telling Martin to 'shut up' on the bench. Cammy's name wasn't mentioned but that could be where those folks are getting it from.

Melnyk's article talks about how the players had really reached the breaking point with JM and he argues that it was well past time for him to leave. I have a hard time believing that players would actually chirp their coach on the bench like that but that's what Melnyk wrote.
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Originally Posted by Poulet Kostopoulos View Post
If that really happened, I think Marc Denis would be the VERY first guy to report that "bomb" live, wouldn't he? He's standing right next to the bench every freaking game.

So total BS.
I see you boys havent been around a hockey room or bench lately huh ?

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12-21-2011, 01:05 PM
  #122
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I see the firing of Jacques Martin as I saw the firing of Roland Melanson.

Instead of working to Carey Price's style and improving on it, Melanson was trying to teach him the only style he knows well, the butterfly. This approach almost ruined one of the best up and coming goaltender in the game. Under a new coach, we see Price getting back to his old hybrid style of goaltending, standing up a lot more and going down when he needs to.

Martin knows (or believes in) only one way: all out defense. That took the wind out of every offensive player who relied almost solely on the powerplay to get their points. If the powerplay didn't work, the offense was rare. His system smothered offensive creativity and didn't use the team's greatest asset, it's speed, to its maximum.

I have a feeling that this firing will be just as fruitful as the one of Melanson.

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12-21-2011, 01:10 PM
  #123
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I see the firing of Jacques Martin as I saw the firing of Roland Melanson.

Instead of working to Carey Price's style and improving on it, Melanson was trying to teach him the only style he knows well, the butterfly. This approach almost ruined one of the best up and coming goaltender in the game. Under a new coach, we see Price getting back to his old hybrid style of goaltending, standing up a lot more and going down when he needs to.

Martin knows (or believes in) only one way: all out defense. That took the wind out of every offensive player who relied almost solely on the powerplay to get their points. If the powerplay didn't work, the offense was rare. His system smothered offensive creativity and didn't use the team's greatest asset, it's speed, to its maximum.

I have a feeling that this firing will be just as fruitful as the one of Melanson.
If that was the case, then upper management has been foolish and didn't do its homework -- they should have known what they were getting in hiring JM.

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12-21-2011, 01:19 PM
  #124
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If that was the case, then upper management has been foolish and didn't do its homework -- they should have known what they were getting in hiring JM.
The hiring was done, in my opinion, in desperation for a coach "with experience" after several "rookie" coaches. Despair often doesn't mean the right way.

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12-21-2011, 01:22 PM
  #125
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If that was the case, then upper management has been foolish and didn't do its homework -- they should have known what they were getting in hiring JM.
He was Gainey's choice as was Scott Gomez, Guy Carbonneau and a host of others. Some of his decisions rank right up there with those of Rejean Houle

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