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The Myth of the Top Lefty D-man

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Old
12-15-2011, 05:52 PM
  #51
h22prelude93
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
He is the complete opposite of a Hitch player.
Exactly my point! We don't need any more "Hitch" type players. We have a team full of those, what we need is a bona fide goal-scorer. Defense is great, and I'm all for the defense-first system Hitchcock has put in place, but you also need guys that can bury the puck if you want to continue winning hockey games. Also, Semin has never played in a system quite like Hitchcock's...what's to say he couldn't hang? It's amazing what a change of scenery can sometimes do for a guy. Parise would be my first choice, but it's pretty obvious Lamoriello doesn't plan on making a move, and who knows when the next time a player with that kind of scoring ability will become available.

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12-15-2011, 06:03 PM
  #52
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The mere notion of Semin stains this thread about defense.

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12-15-2011, 06:04 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by h22prelude93 View Post
He is definitely a selfish player who likes to shoot the puck...but isn't that what we need? I agree with a lot of what you're saying, but I still think getting out from under the shadow of Ovechkin could do Semin wonders. I've watched a good deal of Capitals games, and every time Ovechkin's been out Semin has stepped up and showed what a great player he is. Most people say he's overrated, but if anything I'd say Semin is quite underrated. Just my opinion.
I don't mean selfish as in he makes things happen himself and chooses to shoot instead of passing too much. I mean he consistently refuses to make plays that help the team. He doesn't battle in the corners and he won't make plays that mean he has to support such a battle. He'd rather turn over the puck than make a safe play. That's not the good type of selfish, it's stupid. There's a reason the Capitals aren't doing well and a reason his performance over the past couple of playoffs has been underwhelming. Teams have him figured out. Good teams play him hard and he has no response.

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12-15-2011, 06:06 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by h22prelude93 View Post
Exactly my point! We don't need any more "Hitch" type players. We have a team full of those, what we need is a bona fide goal-scorer. Defense is great, and I'm all for the defense-first system Hitchcock has put in place, but you also need guys that can bury the puck if you want to continue winning hockey games. Also, Semin has never played in a system quite like Hitchcock's...what's to say he couldn't hang? It's amazing what a change of scenery can sometimes do for a guy. Parise would be my first choice, but it's pretty obvious Lamoriello doesn't plan on making a move, and who knows when the next time a player with that kind of scoring ability will become available.
We do need a goal scorer, but there is a big difference between Parise and Semin. Parise would be great for us, not only would he be the big time goal scorer that we need, he also isn't lazy defensively and routinely take shifts off. Semin has a ton of talent, but he isn't a player that can lead a team. Besides the fact that Filatov was a bust in this league, there is a reason that him and Hitch did not get a long. Semin and Hitch won't make a match. I have criticized Stewart's laziness and wouldn't mind it if he was traded, but Semin is even more lazy.

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12-15-2011, 06:09 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by h22prelude93 View Post
He is definitely a selfish player who likes to shoot the puck...but isn't that what we need? I agree with a lot of what you're saying, but I still think getting out from under the shadow of Ovechkin could do Semin wonders. I've watched a good deal of Capitals games, and every time Ovechkin's been out Semin has stepped up and showed what a great player he is. Most people say he's overrated, but if anything I'd say Semin is quite underrated. Just my opinion.

Quote:
If I have choice between shoot or make pass, I think "I score goal."
I'm butchering the quote from Tarasenko, but it goes something like that. That's the kind of selfish player I want on my team.

That said, I do have a hard time seeing Semin fit seamlessly into the current Blues.

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12-15-2011, 06:10 PM
  #56
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Semin would make a terrible top lefty D-man.

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12-15-2011, 06:13 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by PocketNines View Post
Semin would make a terrible top lefty D-man.
I lolled.

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12-15-2011, 07:10 PM
  #58
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You guys are probably right about him not fitting here...I'm just tired of not having a consistent goal scorer on this team, and I think at this point Semin would be somewhat of a low risk investment. Worst case scenario if he doesn't fit you simply let him walk at the end of the season. Stewart may turn his game around, but I don't think his head is in it. I noticed a few weeks back after Oshie scored the entire bench was going nuts, besides Stewart who actually had a frown on his face. And then Perron gave him a nudge like "hey man what's the deal'. Did anyone else notice this? He may of just been having a bad night, but it definitely rubbed me the wrong way.
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Originally Posted by PocketNines View Post
Semin would make a terrible top lefty D-man.
Ha ha, good point!

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12-16-2011, 02:06 AM
  #59
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After seeing the thread on the trade forums about Philly possibly replacing Pronger(for the year) made me think it might make Army's job tougher to get the D-man we're looking for. Holmgren is just bat **** crazy enough to set the trade market high enough we might not like what we end up giving up for a d-man. Plus it means one less possible target to trade for, or they potentially snag one of or the guy Army has in mind.

I am hoping for a buyer's market as much as possible. The less teams in the running for top four lefty d-men the better.

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12-20-2011, 02:56 PM
  #60
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Am I the only one that thinks we do not need a top lefty defenseman? We give up the fewest shots and goals in the league. Our left side might not have some flashy high profile guy but they get the job done. It's hard to argue with the results we have been getting.

I personally think people need to let go of the idea that we "need" a top pairing left handed defenseman. We have a lot of depth on the left side. They all have played fairly well also. I think Pietrangelo is good enough that he does not need a high profile partner.

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12-20-2011, 04:03 PM
  #61
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I'm starting to believe this team needs a playmaking center, mostly for the power play, and not a defenseman.

Wonder if Phil Goyette is available? (that's for us old-timers).

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12-20-2011, 05:27 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by HooliganX2 View Post
Am I the only one that thinks we do not need a top lefty defenseman? We give up the fewest shots and goals in the league. Our left side might not have some flashy high profile guy but they get the job done. It's hard to argue with the results we have been getting.

I personally think people need to let go of the idea that we "need" a top pairing left handed defenseman. We have a lot of depth on the left side. They all have played fairly well also. I think Pietrangelo is good enough that he does not need a high profile partner.
I would say that we could improve by adding a top LHD. However, we do not need one. We will need to address a LHD spot this offseason or sooner, as I see Carlo parting ways with the club and possibly Jackman. Although I think Jax will sign a cheaper contract and stay a Blue. Whether that spot is a mere 7th D man or a top pairing guy depends on our offseason.

A more pressing improvement is adding a PPG player. Yet again, we don't need that player, but could really use him. We might have that guy in Perron. We shall see.

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12-20-2011, 06:00 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Celtic Note View Post
I would say that we could improve by adding a top LHD. However, we do not need one. We will need to address a LHD spot this offseason or sooner, as I see Carlo parting ways with the club and possibly Jackman. Although I think Jax will sign a cheaper contract and stay a Blue. Whether that spot is a mere 7th D man or a top pairing guy depends on our offseason.

A more pressing improvement is adding a PPG player. Yet again, we don't need that player, but could really use him. We might have that guy in Perron. We shall see.
I just think the cost of a true top pairing defenseman would be to great to justify it. It will cost us a 1st or one of our top prospects and a roster player at the least. Also we are going to eventually have to pay Oshie, Perron, Pietrangelo and Shattenkirk. Getting a true top pairing guy will eventually cost big money to keep him. We are lucky we got Steen and Backes on what seems to be bargain contracts currently.

A true number one center is needed more then anything IMO. Backes is a great 1b or 2 IMO. If Berglund was playing like a 1b or 2 it would help eliminate that need though.

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12-20-2011, 06:48 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by HooliganX2 View Post
I just think the cost of a true top pairing defenseman would be to great to justify it. It will cost us a 1st or one of our top prospects and a roster player at the least. Also we are going to eventually have to pay Oshie, Perron, Pietrangelo and Shattenkirk. Getting a true top pairing guy will eventually cost big money to keep him. We are lucky we got Steen and Backes on what seems to be bargain contracts currently.

A true number one center is needed more then anything IMO. Backes is a great 1b or 2 IMO. If Berglund was playing like a 1b or 2 it would help eliminate that need though.
Bringing in a #1 center would likely be more costly. So, We could be saying the same things there. You have to give to get and you have to role the dice every once in a while if you want to win the Cup. So, if the right trade comes along, I might take a long look at making it.

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12-20-2011, 08:36 PM
  #65
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The Blues probably won't spend to the cap right away, even with a new owner, but they'll have 31 million in space to re-sign their RFA guys: Stewart, Oshie, Perron, and Reaves. And hopefully, Elliott. If you add Tarasenko and McRae, that's still a lot of space. Arguably, they'll be just a couple million over the floor.

If they can get a defensive upgrade, I wouldn't be unhappy with Cole and Russell as the bottom two lefties. I also wouldn't be surprised to see them hang onto one of Colaiacovo or Jackman, regardless. I think their futures depend on playoff performance.

They have to be careful not to price themselves out for guys like Pietrangelo and Shattenkirk, but the Blues have a lot of space to play with. And I don't just mean total cap space, but also if they want to hit their salary for this year, too. Arnott, Langenbrunner, Jackman, and Colaiacovo all combine for eleven million dollars. Considering the Blues' depth and youth on cheap contracts, they can spend that money better.

So I believe they can get a good playmaker AND defenseman without straining themselves or having to be creative. Attracting those guys as free agents, however, could be tricky, as the Blues aren't the only team who have the space. The biggest improvements might continue to be through trades.

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12-20-2011, 09:51 PM
  #66
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I'm starting to believe this team needs a playmaking center, mostly for the power play, and not a defenseman.

Wonder if Phil Goyette is available? (that's for us old-timers).
Andy McDonald could help the power play quite a bit.

This team is definitely missing him in the offensive zone.

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12-20-2011, 09:53 PM
  #67
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Andy McDonald could help the power play quite a bit.

This team is definitely missing him in the offensive zone.
Not to mention in the shootout as well.

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12-20-2011, 11:42 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by rumrokh View Post
So I believe they can get a good playmaker AND defenseman without straining themselves or having to be creative. Attracting those guys as free agents, however, could be tricky, as the Blues aren't the only team who have the space. The biggest improvements might continue to be through trades.
This is a good point. That is why it is so important that the Blues not only make the playoffs, but make some noise while there. Four and done like last time won't help attract many UFAs.

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12-21-2011, 12:12 AM
  #69
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Pietrangelo is the most elite player on the team, and you want to give him a partner that will let him extract the most talent to contribute to the roster. To go deep in the playoffs you need more than just Pietrangelo and Shattenkirk anchoring your D.

The top-lefty need is definitely NOT a win-now need, but an organizational foundation need, long term. Of Jackman, Colaiacovo, Russell and Huskins, three of those guys are UFA after the year and none is a top-pairing guy. All serviceable as players when they're in the lineup, but in each case it's their RD partner who's the obvious strength of the pairing.

Then you have Cole, who only has 37 games. Of that quintet, Cole is the one who could be Pietrangelo's longer term partner. He's very physical, he skates well, he's a smart player.

The Blues do need a third guy who can be counted on for 22-24 minutes every night, a) to extract the maximum value out of Petro and b) as insurance in case of injury. These are good times right now but think for one second if the Blues lost one of Petro or Shattenkirk for an extended stretch. Take a look at the other top teams and see how many of those type of players they have. When you're trying to assemble a perennial Cup challenger you need more guys than the Blues have right now.

This is mainly a response to Hooligan questioning why the focus on D. I think it's because fans realize that Cole's a question mark to become that guy and there's nobody else in the organization anywhere near becoming that guy after him. However, the Blues have blue-chip forward depth. Schwartz and Tarasenko, folks, are absolutely the real deal. Watching Schwartz play the prelim game against Finland, skill-wise he's NHL ready. He was the best forward on the ice and the announcers were gushing about it. I bet if McDonald isn't back by the end of the season the Blues push to get Schwartz on the roster. Berglund, who knows but if it's going to happen it's going to happen soon or not at all with him. Even if Stewart isn't moved and isn't turned around by the end of the year, Tarasenko on the line with Perron and Berglund is going to be a serious 2d line upgrade. Tarasenko's puck skills and offensive zone intensity level are miles better than Stewart's.

All of that is to say that the left D spot, organizationally, is the spot that needs most filling from the outside. Hence, the focus, particularly with using Stewart as an expendable trade chip. A close second is the other top-two center with Backes.

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