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Texas win the right to Yu Darvish... Meanwhile, Jays fans are jumping off the cliff

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Old
12-21-2011, 08:42 AM
  #76
showtime8
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Originally Posted by darko View Post
Better hope so. Walks alot, doesnt strike out many and prone to long ball. 46 HRs given up last year. Imagine what Teixeira, Granderson, A-Gonz and the rest of AL east would do to him. You dont want to see him on Jays.

Yea, I don't think he's the ideal candidate that AA would go after, just throwing a couple names out there. Arroyo is also 34 and now what the Jays should be targetting.

I do think that Chad Billingsley would look good as the #3 in the rotation. He's reaching close to 200 IP for the past 4 seasons and to have some durability at that spot would be solid. I'm not sure where he fits into the Dodgers rotation at the moment, but likely behind Kershaw, Lily and Harang? He might be a 2 or 3 guy though.

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Old
12-21-2011, 08:44 AM
  #77
The Man in White
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Originally Posted by VanJaysFan View Post
No... just.. no.

3 1000+ post threads in the last week and we've finally found the weakest link.

If AA had a crystal ball a few months ago forseeing the changes to the upcoming CBA he would have handed Beede a blank cheque. Not even in a month of Sundays will you come up with a scenario where it benefits the Jays to walk away from their top draft pick over 'money issues' (out of Beede's own mouth, not a game of Chinese whisper)
You're right, Beede isn't the best example. The rumour is that the team had questions over the health of his shoulder.

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Old
12-21-2011, 08:52 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by jcollins View Post
This.

For two years now since AA took over, 2013 has been the year. Nothing has changed.
What will change from 2012 to 2013 that will make the Jays any better? Who are the players that will come in next year to make this team better?

That is where some fans are getting frustrated with the lack of winning team on the field. Who are our top 10 prospects and how will they make the team better or if they will even make it up.

1. Travis d'Arnaud, c
2. Anthony Gose, of
3. Jake Marisnick, of
4. Daniel Norris, lhp
5. Justin Nicolino, lhp
6. Aaron Sanchez, rhp
7. Noah Syndergaard, rhp
8. Deck McGuire, rhp
9. Drew Hutchison, rhp
10. Asher Wojciechowski, rhp

#1, 2,3 are already blocked at the MLB level so their impact will be minimal. The rest are pitchers and from experience they usually take 2-3 years in the Majors before becoming solid MLB pitchers if ever

So I don't see where the improvement will come from in 2013 so if that means going out to make deals or sign FA to make the ball club better why not do it this year.

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Old
12-21-2011, 08:53 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by dredeye View Post
The problem is for the most part the people posting all these complaints aren't people that post around here with the exception of a few. It's annoying for people that follow the team closely get told how bad AA is or how cheap rogers is and add nothing to the argument.
Seems pretty shortsighted to assume that not posting much in this thread = not following team closely.

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12-21-2011, 09:30 AM
  #80
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Why do you guys hate thames so much?

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Old
12-21-2011, 09:36 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by AndMat View Post
Why do you guys hate thames so much?
We don't, we just think Snider has more upside.

It would be like saying you would rather trade Frattin over Kadri despite Fratting producing at the NHL level now, no one doubts Kadri has the potential to be the better player so thats who you want to keep.

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Old
12-21-2011, 09:37 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by ryno23 View Post
What will change from 2012 to 2013 that will make the Jays any better? Who are the players that will come in next year to make this team better?

That is where some fans are getting frustrated with the lack of winning team on the field. Who are our top 10 prospects and how will they make the team better or if they will even make it up.

1. Travis d'Arnaud, c
2. Anthony Gose, of
3. Jake Marisnick, of
4. Daniel Norris, lhp
5. Justin Nicolino, lhp
6. Aaron Sanchez, rhp
7. Noah Syndergaard, rhp
8. Deck McGuire, rhp
9. Drew Hutchison, rhp
10. Asher Wojciechowski, rhp

#1, 2,3 are already blocked at the MLB level so their impact will be minimal. The rest are pitchers and from experience they usually take 2-3 years in the Majors before becoming solid MLB pitchers if ever

So I don't see where the improvement will come from in 2013 so if that means going out to make deals or sign FA to make the ball club better why not do it this year.
So your saying because it will take a bit of time to be of any use we should not bother and just go all in?

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Old
12-21-2011, 09:40 AM
  #83
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So your saying because it will take a bit of time to be of any use we should not bother and just go all in?
Sounds like its time to make it rain...someone call Pac-Man Jones

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Old
12-21-2011, 09:41 AM
  #84
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This is my take on Prince Fielder

If he wants 8yrs then why can't we do that? Considering we were willing to offer 50mill for Yu Darvish just to talk to him, that's a lump sum that can be used to extend to an 8yr deal

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12-21-2011, 09:50 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by dream team43 View Post
This is my take on Prince Fielder

If he wants 8yrs then why can't we do that? Considering we were willing to offer 50mill for Yu Darvish just to talk to him, that's a lump sum that can be used to extend to an 8yr deal
We'll gladly sign him for 8 years if he comes at 12 M.

Problem is he wants 20 M for that much, and it's unlikely he will be worth that much for the last 3 years. Now if he would agree to making the last few years a team option, then there's something to think about.

Even though I'm on the bring Fielder bandwagon, 8 years is too long. Most I'll do for 20 is 6 years without adding team options.

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12-21-2011, 10:05 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Chandrashekhar Limit View Post
We'll gladly sign him for 8 years if he comes at 12 M.

Problem is he wants 20 M for that much, and it's unlikely he will be worth that much for the last 3 years. Now if he would agree to making the last few years a team option, then there's something to think about.

Even though I'm on the bring Fielder bandwagon, 8 years is too long. Most I'll do for 20 is 6 years without adding team options.
The good news is Texas just made it rain on Darvish, so a 10 year 20mil deal there is much less likely.

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Old
12-21-2011, 10:10 AM
  #87
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Jon Heyman says 32 MLB teams are still in on him though.

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Old
12-21-2011, 10:12 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by VanJaysFan View Post
No... just.. no.

3 1000+ post threads in the last week and we've finally found the weakest link.

If AA had a crystal ball a few months ago forseeing the changes to the upcoming CBA he would have handed Beede a blank cheque. Not even in a month of Sundays will you come up with a scenario where it benefits the Jays to walk away from their top draft pick over 'money issues' (out of Beede's own mouth, not a game of Chinese whisper)
How can you be so blind? How many times does AA have to say he assigns a value to a player and sticks to it? Do you want to know the odds of a 1st round player turning into a star? Do you even know the last compensation pick the Jays got for not signing a player? His name is Snydergaard.

It's just like the whole free agent thing. AA says he doesn't like spending on big free agents and long term deals and you keep saying "he's unclear about signing big free agents".

You're completely oblivious.

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Old
12-21-2011, 10:13 AM
  #89
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And 33 of them are willing to offer 10 years @ 25 M

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Old
12-21-2011, 10:34 AM
  #90
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To be fair, it's hard to swallow when you are the only team that doesn't sign your 1st rounder.

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Old
12-21-2011, 10:39 AM
  #91
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I have full faith in Alex Anthopoulous.

That's all I will say at this point.

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Old
12-21-2011, 10:40 AM
  #92
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I really hope AA is here to stay for a very long time. He's a great mind and you can tell. The best thing he can do in todays era is keep things close to your vest. The less people know, the better. I hope he stays around for a long time with the Jays because he will be one of the better baseball minds down the road.

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Old
12-21-2011, 10:44 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Chandrashekhar Limit View Post
We'll gladly sign him for 8 years if he comes at 12 M.

Problem is he wants 20 M for that much, and it's unlikely he will be worth that much for the last 3 years. Now if he would agree to making the last few years a team option, then there's something to think about.

Even though I'm on the bring Fielder bandwagon, 8 years is too long. Most I'll do for 20 is 6 years without adding team options.
That makes no sense to me. Your willing to spend 50million just to talk to a player from Japan. Just use that money for yrs 7 and 8 that we saved for just speaking to him. Where's the logic? For Years 7 & 8 --- 20M is too much? 50M / 2yrs is 25M which is much more sufficient than what he wants.

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Old
12-21-2011, 10:45 AM
  #94
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Originally Posted by GeneralSwell View Post
To be fair, it's hard to swallow when you are the only team that doesn't sign your 1st rounder.
We get that draft pick back again this year

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Old
12-21-2011, 10:48 AM
  #95
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It does suck that we didn't sign Beede, but I find it hilarious that he ended up ****ing himself over by not signing.

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Old
12-21-2011, 10:50 AM
  #96
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It does suck that we didn't sign Beede, but I find it hilarious that he ended up ****ing himself over by not signing.
Stupid kid, sometimes your agent isn't always right, follow your heart. If you really want to play in the majors, take the opportunity by the nuts and do it. He could've been part of a good thing with the rest of the farm we have.

One thing that will bug me for a long, long time about this team: there won't be a definitive answer to whether AA and co made the apparent 50m bid in an honest attempt to win or in an attempt to "prove" they're willing to spend, but in reality knew they were going to lose out based on the Dice-K record. Yeah, yeah, some here will say it's dumb to think they bid for public opinion, but I think you'd be surprised by what they'd be willing to do to save face.

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Old
12-21-2011, 10:52 AM
  #97
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Players that sit out really bother me. I'm glad we didn't sign him. Sounds like a headcase later on..

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Old
12-21-2011, 10:54 AM
  #98
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Originally Posted by dream team43 View Post
That makes no sense to me. Your willing to spend 50million just to talk to a player from Japan. Just use that money for yrs 7 and 8. If AA is willing on signing him to a 6yr deal then use the 50million we saved on Darvish from just speaking to him.
You're not getting the point.

The Jays are willing to pay top dollars if they think the player will be worth it for the length of the contract.

That's the principle with which the ball club runs.

Even if we won the rights to Darvish, we would not have signed him to anything more than 5 or maybe 6 years. The 50 M is necessary for the Darvsh scenario because without it we cant even get to talk to him about a contract. That's the only reason the team was allowed to use it that scenario.

Just because you have money to spend does not mean you'll go out and pay $5 for something worth $3. No responsible person/organization does that.

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Old
12-21-2011, 10:57 AM
  #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneralSwell View Post
To be fair, it's hard to swallow when you are the only team that doesn't sign your 1st rounder.
Meh.. Norris was the better player anyways and if it came down to one or the other, he was the one to sign.

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Old
12-21-2011, 10:58 AM
  #100
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Originally Posted by GeneralSwell View Post
To be fair, it's hard to swallow when you are the only team that doesn't sign your 1st rounder.
I said it at the time of the draft, and I'll say it again now: the optics of him being a 1st rounder make it seem worse than it is. Daniel Norris was expected to be a first round pick as well, but fell because of signability. If we switch his draft position with Beede's, nobody complains about us not signing Beede, because we knew that of the 3 (Beede, Norris, Comer) we were only likely to sign 2.

AA has no issue with spending money, that much has been made clear, it's that it has to make sense in the long run. Just look at past examples with Darvish's posting, sending Philly $5M to get the prospects he wanted; going after Chapman, Hech for $10M...That why it's unlikely he's going to go after a Prince Fielder who will be great for 5-6 years, but it's years 7-10 that he'd be a huge albatross.

The only way I could see AA going after Fielder is 6 guaranteed years and then a bunch of options.

$150M/6 ($25M/yr)
$40M/2 years team option ($5M buyout per year)
$33M/2 years player option

There he's guaranteed at least $155M for 6 years and as much as $223M over 10 years

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