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Old
12-21-2011, 04:42 PM
  #1
seafoam
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Jack Johnson

As fans who watch this player every game, give me a scouting report of him, specifically how bad is his defensive game?

Can he be had for a a package surrounding Grabner or Okposo?

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12-21-2011, 04:48 PM
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acrethrills
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I won't comment on his defensive game at the moment other than to say that I don't consider him a defensive liability in the way that guys like Visnovsky can be.

The chances of him being shipped out though as Sutter comes in as a big, physical, fast defenseman for an underachieving, skilled forward (Grabner) are pretty small. I think we need a guy 4-5 years older, not a 2nd year player. We have Gagne and Williams as it is, I don't think Grabner solves our problems.

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12-21-2011, 04:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acrethrills View Post
I won't comment on his defensive game at the moment other than to say that I don't consider him a defensive liability in the way that guys like Visnovsky can be.

The chances of him being shipped out though as Sutter comes in as a big, physical, fast defenseman for an underachieving, skilled forward
(Grabner) are pretty small. I think we need a guy 4-5 years older, not a 2nd year player. We have Gagne and Williams as it is, I don't think Grabner solves our
problems.
Ten goals playing on a bottom five offense in the league with an invisible Frans Nielsen and a slumping Okposo (finally playing well) AND the best speed in the league is underachieving? And Gagne and Williams combine for 12 goals FYI.

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12-21-2011, 05:00 PM
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KINGS17
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I think the question we would be asking is can Grabner be had for a package of Martinez and a 2nd round pick?

Johnson is a lot to ask from us. If he is moved I would think the Kings might add something to the deal to get a #1 LW from the team they are dealing with.

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12-21-2011, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
I think the question we would be asking is can Grabner be had for a package of Martinez and a 2nd round pick?

Johnson is a lot to ask from us. If he is moved I would think the Kings might add something to the deal to get a #1 LW from the team they are dealing with.
Considering he just signed a 5 year deal, a top pairing dman would be the asking price. Maybe

Grabs, Wishart, 3rd ???

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12-21-2011, 05:05 PM
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Ziggy Stardust
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Johnson's biggest problem defensively has been when he is caught standing. Along the boards, he's rock solid, but in terms of covering the open ice, his head needs to be on a swivel and he has to be aware of what is in front of him and behind him. What's good is that these flaws can be fixed with more experience and coaching. His defensive game gets exposed when the Kings start running around in their own end, chasing the play.

His skating is his biggest strength. He's very good at making recoveries. His passing has improved, although I think at times he passes it too hard. He needs to improve his handling of the puck when he accepts passes. What he's very good at is rushing the puck up ice. If given the puck, he can gain entry into the offensive zone.

Johnson is at his best when he keeps his game simple and doesn't try to do too much and take control of a game on his own. So far we've seen glimpses of Johnson at the top of his game. If he keeps it up, he'll be a top pairing NHL defenseman. If he continues to struggle with his play, he could be just another Bryan McCabe/Sheldon Souray.

I think he's capable of doing more than what we've seen thus far and he's only touching the surface and getting more and more comfortable out there. Within a few seasons, I think he can be a steady 40+ point defenseman who'll log a lot of big/important minutes. If he sets his mind to it, Johnson could very well be a game changing defenseman. It's that potential that has made the Kings reluctant to move him.

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12-21-2011, 05:05 PM
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KINGS17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaStromey View Post
Considering he just signed a 5 year deal, a top pairing dman would be the asking price. Maybe

Grabs, Wishart, 3rd ???
Considering the progress Voynov has made, I think Lombardi would have to listen.

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12-21-2011, 05:31 PM
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His passing ability is what fails him the most, I think. And that'll definitely get better with time. He seems to just end up passing into other players' skates more than anything.

But there are few players I'd trade JJ for right now, he is finally putting it together.

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12-21-2011, 05:38 PM
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Wishart doesn't add anything to the package because LA has plenty of better D prospects. Not interested in trading Johnson

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12-21-2011, 06:46 PM
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today I was thinking the two teams would be good trading partners

To L.A

Grabner
Okposo

To NYI

Johnson
Williams

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12-21-2011, 06:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by funky View Post
today I was thinking the two teams would be good trading partners

To L.A

Grabner
Okposo

To NYI

Johnson
Williams
Yeah, that's not going to happen.

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12-21-2011, 06:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by funky View Post
today I was thinking the two teams would be good trading partners

To L.A

Grabner
Okposo

To NYI

Johnson
Williams
LA has an entire lineup almost underachieving; why on gods green earth do we want to swap for players that are doing the exact same thing.

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12-21-2011, 07:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
LA has an entire lineup almost underachieving; why on gods green earth do we want to swap for players that are doing the exact same thing.
Grabner gives us something that we don't have. A young winger with speed that can finish. I don't like including Johnson in the deal, but the acquisition of Grabner or any player like him would have to be considered.

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12-21-2011, 07:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
LA has an entire lineup almost underachieving; why on gods green earth do we want to swap for players that are doing the exact same thing.
L.A's weakness is on the wings.

Grabner - sophmore slump but also one of the fastest guys in the NHL with a good pair of hands. He is young and could be a launch pad for Kopitar who is a creative passer.

Okposo- young, big, power forward coming of an injury. Even on a third line he will add skill and size. Change of scenery could work wonders

Johnson I really like, but Voynov has jusy as much offensive ability and may mesh better with DD

Williams is better then he has been playing. Will provide veteran leadership to a young forward core as well as skill.

I am sure we could mix and match players, but if a trade with NYI is made those are the two I would want and I would imagine JJ would be asked for

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12-21-2011, 08:09 PM
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I would rather trade our prospects to New York for Grabner. There is no doubt that he would be a good fit in LA, but not for Jack. I'd trade Voynov or Martinez plus someone like Loktionov, but no way do I trade Jack. He's playing better than at any other point in his career.

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12-21-2011, 10:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markisonfire View Post
I would rather trade our prospects to New York for Grabner. There is no doubt that he would be a good fit in LA, but not for Jack. I'd trade Voynov or Martinez plus someone like Loktionov, but no way do I trade Jack. He's playing better than at any other point in his career.
I agree with this. I would love to keep JJ, but I think Grabner will be the real deal and it may cost JJ.

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12-21-2011, 10:33 PM
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seafoam
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Quote:
Originally Posted by funky View Post
today I was thinking the two teams would be good trading partners

To L.A

Grabner
Okposo

To NYI

Johnson
Williams
Really don't want Williams, maybe sub him with a first or a Garth Snow "Highly Coveted" second round pick and a prospect?

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12-21-2011, 10:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
Johnson's biggest problem defensively has been when he is caught standing. Along the boards, he's rock solid, but in terms of covering the open ice, his head needs to be on a swivel and he has to be aware of what is in front of him and behind him. What's good is that these flaws can be fixed with more experience and coaching. His defensive game gets exposed when the Kings start running around in their own end, chasing the play.
Despite the Kings impressive defensive statistics, "running around in their own end" was a common problem under TM (especially in the playoffs). If Sutter can sure up this aspect of LA's game, JJ may stand to benefit the most of any player.

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12-22-2011, 01:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
Johnson's biggest problem defensively has been when he is caught standing. Along the boards, he's rock solid, but in terms of covering the open ice, his head needs to be on a swivel and he has to be aware of what is in front of him and behind him. What's good is that these flaws can be fixed with more experience and coaching. His defensive game gets exposed when the Kings start running around in their own end, chasing the play.

His skating is his biggest strength. He's very good at making recoveries. His passing has improved, although I think at times he passes it too hard. He needs to improve his handling of the puck when he accepts passes. What he's very good at is rushing the puck up ice. If given the puck, he can gain entry into the offensive zone.

Johnson is at his best when he keeps his game simple and doesn't try to do too much and take control of a game on his own. So far we've seen glimpses of Johnson at the top of his game. If he keeps it up, he'll be a top pairing NHL defenseman. If he continues to struggle with his play, he could be just another Bryan McCabe/Sheldon Souray.

I think he's capable of doing more than what we've seen thus far and he's only touching the surface and getting more and more comfortable out there. Within a few seasons, I think he can be a steady 40+ point defenseman who'll log a lot of big/important minutes. If he sets his mind to it, Johnson could very well be a game changing defenseman. It's that potential that has made the Kings reluctant to move him.
Brilliant post. On top of all that mentioned he's been pretty unlucky at times at stepping on the ice when **** happens. It's not an excuse, it's just the truth and it explains some of his minus numbers being so high.

All that being said, Johnson really hates losing and shows he's willing to step up when given the opportunity.

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12-22-2011, 02:01 AM
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acrethrills
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Ziggy knows his stuff, there's no doubt about that. Summed up JJ in four paragraphs.

I like Grabner, but a player in the midst of a sophomore slump (not the worst one in history, but I think it still qualifies) doesn't just instantly add offense. Grabner has been shipped out from Van and Fla in the last 16 months, and we can see where those teams are in the standings currently. How is HIS defensive play? I actually am personally more interested in P.A. Parenteau, as he just seems to be able to create offence. 15 assists this year through 30 games, he could get a guy like DB or Kopi going.

Los Angeles recieves

Grabner
Parenteau

Islanders recieve

Johnson
3rd round draft choice 2012


Last edited by acrethrills: 12-22-2011 at 02:06 AM. Reason: spelling
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12-22-2011, 08:50 AM
  #21
seafoam
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Originally Posted by acrethrills View Post
Ziggy knows his stuff, there's no doubt about that. Summed up JJ in four paragraphs.

I like Grabner, but a player in the midst of a sophomore slump (not the worst one in history, but I think it still qualifies) doesn't just instantly add offense. Grabner has been shipped out from Van and Fla in the last 16 months, and we can see where those teams are in the standings currently. How is HIS defensive play? I actually am personally more interested in P.A. Parenteau, as he just seems to be able to create offence. 15 assists this year through 30 games, he could get a guy like DB or Kopi going.

Los Angeles recieves

Grabner
Parenteau

Islanders recieve

Johnson
3rd round draft choice 2012
Grabner is not terrible defensively, he was on the PK last year and had a bunch of short handed goals and was magic with Frans. By no means is he a stud defensively, but is not a liabilty with the ice time he gets.

As far as your proposal, I think that seems about right, maybe Garth would want the third upgraded to a second, but it seems fair nonetheless. The only problem, is two of our top six fowards are being shipped away, maybe Lombardi would be willing to send Penner as a cap dump instead of the pick. I know he is crap but we would need someone to fill in for our losses

P.A. Parenteau
Micheal Grabner

For

Jack Johnson
Dustin Penner
6th round pick

????

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12-22-2011, 09:24 AM
  #22
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-88 in 315 games played tells you something. Only Ray Whitney (-90), Olli Jokinen (-99), Pavel Kubina (-99), Eric Brewer (-109), Ilya Kovalchuk (-113) and Vincent Lecavalier (-114) have a worse minus rating than Jack "What Just Happened" Johnson. Of those players who have worse minus numbers than Jack the games play range from 730 for Ilya to 1181 for Ray Whitney meaning it took those guys much longer to earn the scarlet letter. I completely agree with Ziggy's assessment that Jack gets lost in front of his own net.

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12-22-2011, 09:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markisonfire View Post
I would rather trade our prospects to New York for Grabner. There is no doubt that he would be a good fit in LA, but not for Jack. I'd trade Voynov or Martinez plus someone like Loktionov, but no way do I trade Jack. He's playing better than at any other point in his career.

Snow wouldn't even be tempted imo.

Isles have one of the deepest prospect pools in the nhl.Grabner is coming off a 34 goal season and signed to a team friendly deal.

Isles will go with their own young blueliner(Cal De Haan,Ness,Hamonic,MacDonald,Donovan,Mayfield) and keep Grabs.

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12-22-2011, 09:59 AM
  #24
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-88 in 315 games played tells you something. Only Ray Whitney (-90), Olli Jokinen (-99), Pavel Kubina (-99), Eric Brewer (-109), Ilya Kovalchuk (-113) and Vincent Lecavalier (-114) have a worse minus rating than Jack "What Just Happened" Johnson. Of those players who have worse minus numbers than Jack the games play range from 730 for Ilya to 1181 for Ray Whitney meaning it took those guys much longer to earn the scarlet letter. I completely agree with Ziggy's assessment that Jack gets lost in front of his own net.
Come on! Half of that number was his first two years in the league (-21 in 07-08, -18 in 08-09). Do you remember the Kings of those years? They were a defensive joke. Lidstrom would've been a minus on those teams. He was paired with Rob Blake for Blake's (defensively) worst year of his career. Doughty was a -17 in 08-09 (granted, he was an 18-yr old rookie).

I totally agree that there are defensive aspects that JJ can improve at, but comparing the +/- the way you did is mis-leading. One has to consider the circumstances of those first two whole seasons when looking at JJ's career +/-.

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12-22-2011, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy1100 View Post
Come on! Half of that number was his first two years in the league (-21 in 07-08, -18 in 08-09). Do you remember the Kings of those years? They were a defensive joke. Lidstrom would've been a minus on those teams. He was paired with Rob Blake for Blake's (defensively) worst year of his career. Doughty was a -17 in 08-09 (granted, he was an 18-yr old rookie).

I totally agree that there are defensive aspects that JJ can improve at, but comparing the +/- the way you did is mis-leading. One has to consider the circumstances of those first two whole seasons when looking at JJ's career +/-.
The players on that list are mainly from expansion teams other than Jack. Florida, Atlanta, Tampa, then you have Jack. -39 his first 2 years, then -49 since so that means he's getting better? I provided facts to back up my argument that Jack just isn't a good defensemen and you came back with your opinion so we have nowhere else to go.

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