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Old
12-19-2011, 04:16 PM
  #51
BowieSabresFan
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
no. the offseason included nothing drastic. we just over paid for a LWer. And made 2 solid moves for the blueline in the short and long term.



1. Problem is, the owner is continuing the previous plan... which makes this really a 7 year plan that started in the 2007 offseason

2. Major acquisitions? Richards would've been a major acquisition. I would say the new owner approved the spending of boatloads of money. Regier made some acquisitions... 1 of which was a highly quesitonable decision at the time, and only looks worse now.

3. Team injuries, mostly to secondary or tertiary players. Miller injury was a big deal, but he was playing like **** before it anyways... Myers was a big deal, but he was playing like **** before hand anyways.... Vanek, Pommer, Stafford, Roy, Goose... all healthy, and the chosen new leadership of the team.... big time fail in that department.

4. Waiting it out, and seeing how things turned out LAST YEAR, was the worst decision of the decade (worse then the Briere/Drury debacle IMO)

5. the new owner should be more than familiar with the 5 years worth of data on the subject. pushing the problem down the line only makes it worse.

6. i have a large enough pool of information
Jame, from your answers, and especially the one to #6, you've proven that your mind is a closed door on the issue. It's not worth discussing with you in that case for me, so I won't bother.

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12-19-2011, 04:18 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
Don't forget go down in flames to draft JVR or wind up with Giroux from an early 20's overall first rounder. Or is there a way to make Poile/Nashville the Sabres farm club too? Or wait for a blundering owner to let their playoff game-breaker walk away? Simple!
Sadly, I had to think about this one for a while.

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Old
12-19-2011, 04:26 PM
  #53
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Two things have been the cause of their struggles the last several weeks.

Injuries and underperforming top players. Get one of them squared away and we should be fine. Get both squared away and we should start playing like the team we were expected to be. Easier said than done of course.

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12-19-2011, 04:41 PM
  #54
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You betcha! As soon as we get our top 2 centers back we're sure to go on a run!

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12-19-2011, 04:42 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BowieSabresFan View Post
Jame, from your answers, and especially the one to #6, you've proven that your mind is a closed door on the issue. It's not worth discussing with you in that case for me, so I won't bother.
my door has been closed on this issue for years... seems others are starting to catch up... i figure you can handle another year or so. Sooner or later, we'll be rid of the problems and starting fresh... and with Terry behind it all I just can't wait!

Some people are more inclined to look for excuses... at some point you will run out

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12-19-2011, 04:46 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
Hey, I was all about retool starting last year prior to the Pegula Bounce they got from the new ownership rumors/announcement. The problem is that the new ownership is still looking at this as though they've just taken over and aren't taking into account the debacle this franchise has been on ice since the co-caps fiasco.
Terry bought the team 3 months too late or 3 months too early.

Bottoming out last year would've been the best thing that could've happened...


Quote:
That said, they're not out of things right now and it wouldn't hurt them to shop for in-season acquisition(s) that aren't in the realm of "Roy/Stafford, Sekera and a 2nd" type proposals that have become the new Ryder, Halak and a 2nd running joke. Team building due to cap considerations is probably best done in the summer. Can they make a cheap move now? It seems like they SHOULD. My issue with Regier over his tenure is that he should be looking to add and instead is waiting for the market to be set before bidding. He doesn't trend-set, does not get there first with the best.... so the issues will likely remain.
They aren't "out of it" in terms of snagging a playoff spot... but they are out of it in terms of contending... this team can't win a 7 game series against Boston, Pitt, Philly....

I agree... I don't think they can make roster improvements IN Season. I think they should do the opposite, make roster down grades for upgrades in the future.... dump what we can for 1st and second rounders.... add to the pipeline.... and bottom out for a top 5-10 pick

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Old
12-19-2011, 05:58 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
Terry bought the team 3 months too late or 3 months too early.

Bottoming out last year would've been the best thing that could've happened...

They aren't "out of it" in terms of snagging a playoff spot... but they are out of it in terms of contending... this team can't win a 7 game series against Boston, Pitt, Philly....

I agree... I don't think they can make roster improvements IN Season. I think they should do the opposite, make roster down grades for upgrades in the future.... dump what we can for 1st and second rounders.... add to the pipeline.... and bottom out for a top 5-10 pick
The team last year couldn't knock off Philly team that dumped 2 of their top 3 centers (one being their captain). This team isn't much better.

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Old
12-19-2011, 06:51 PM
  #58
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What do you guys think about Ennis or maybe a package Schiestel/Brennan+ to the Flyers for Brayden Schenn? They paid a lot for him but it seems he's not producing and maybe they'll ship him out for some defensemen after the Pronger injury or for a more skilled forward (Ennis).

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12-19-2011, 06:54 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by dkollidas View Post
What do you guys think about Ennis or maybe a package Schiestel/Brennan+ to the Flyers for Brayden Schenn? They paid a lot for him but it seems he's not producing and maybe they'll ship him out for some defensemen after the Pronger injury or for a more skilled forward (Ennis).
It's kind of hard to produce when you're injured.

Flyers say no.

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12-19-2011, 09:23 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MillerFan1 View Post
The team last year couldn't knock off Philly team that dumped 2 of their top 3 centers (one being their captain). This team isn't much better.
What does them trading 2 of their top 4 centers over the summer have to do with the playoff series in April?

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Old
12-19-2011, 09:44 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by volatile View Post
What does them trading 2 of their top 4 centers over the summer have to do with the playoff series in April?
I think his point is we lost to the Flyers and yet they were still making moves to try to better themselves knowing they still weren't good enough. So if we lose to a team that still is trying to get better where does that leave our "core". I don't really agree with that arguement but I do understand it.


I shakeup in the Top 6 would probably be a good thing but I'm willing to wait until we are a little healthier before demanding changes.

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12-19-2011, 09:46 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
Two things have been the cause of their struggles the last several weeks.

Injuries and underperforming top players. Get one of them squared away and we should be fine. Get both squared away and we should start playing like the team we were expected to be. Easier said than done of course.
Lindy Ruff gets a pass
what else is new

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12-19-2011, 09:48 PM
  #63
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Lindy Ruff gets a pass
what else is new
How so?

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12-19-2011, 09:50 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
How so?
was I to infer that the 2 causes you listed relate back to Ruff? Obviously the injuries don't. So are you saying that the players underperforming falls on Lindy? Because in the past, you've always excused Lindy from such blame.

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12-19-2011, 09:57 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
was I to infer that the 2 causes you listed relate back to Ruff? Obviously the injuries don't. So are you saying that the players underperforming falls on Lindy? Because in the past, you've always excused Lindy from such blame.
You tell me. Are Roy and Stafford struggling because of Ruff? Thats who I was refering to up front. If they were on their "A" games, with what Vanek/Pommer have already been doing, we would be in pretty good shape even with the injuries.


Last edited by joshjull: 12-19-2011 at 10:23 PM.
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Old
12-19-2011, 10:46 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
Two things have been the cause of their struggles the last several weeks.

Injuries and underperforming top players. Get one of them squared away and we should be fine. Get both squared away and we should start playing like the team we were expected to be. Easier said than done of course.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
Lindy Ruff gets a pass
what else is new
Quote:
Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
How so?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
was I to infer that the 2 causes you listed relate back to Ruff? Obviously the injuries don't. So are you saying that the players underperforming falls on Lindy? Because in the past, you've always excused Lindy from such blame.
Quote:
Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
You tell me. Are Roy and Stafford struggling because of Ruff? Thats who I was refering to up front. If they were on their "A" games, with what Vanek/Pommer have already been doing, we would be in pretty good shape even with the injuries.
how about you answer a question for once....

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Old
12-20-2011, 06:04 AM
  #67
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At this point I'm not really thinking that it is under performing players. At this point the only roster player not really producing is McCormick, and he doesn't really score anyways. I think the main problem right now besides the obvious (injuries) is the way the defense shells up with the lead. I don't like that they stop attacking when they go up by a few goals. The other team can't score if the puck is in their zone. This shelling up style of play just hangs our goalie, whoever they might be out to dry. If they are up by two they need to try for 3 if by five try for 6. Honestly I'm thinking that that is on the coach. How many leads have we given up just hanging back playing defense? Way too many.

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Old
12-20-2011, 08:06 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by NoClue4u View Post
So, I guess what you've chosen to ignore is that 7th place is 2 points (1 win) away from 12th? If we slip to 12th can we have threads about rebuilding the team? Seriously, the team is 10-12 over the last month and a half. That is just mediocrity. That is a bubble team. And after this past off season, and what Terry Pegula preached, that is certainly worth complaining on the internet about.
A bubble team playing at 50% strength. I don't understand how people can just ignore the fact that we're fielding half an AHL team. This is not the Buffalo Sabres.

When the team was healthy, they were sitting SECOND IN THE CONFERENCE AND PUSHING FOR FIRST. Then half the team gets hurt and all of a sudden we need to blow it up and rebuild? Be serious.

If the full roster comes back healthy and they bomb out in the first round again, then we can talk big-time changes. But it's absolute tomfoolery to be talking about blowing up a team that's been a little below .500 lately when they've also iced 12 rookies. TWELVE!!! That's OVER HALF A STARTING ROSTER.

This isn't some typical mid-season injury bug most teams deal with. It's a brutal aberration for a team that had chemistry issues to begin with and never got a chance to grow.

Give it at least until everyone's healthy for a few weeks. Jeez.

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12-20-2011, 08:15 AM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
Two things have been the cause of their struggles the last several weeks.

Injuries and underperforming top players. Get one of them squared away and we should be fine. Get both squared away and we should start playing like the team we were expected to be. Easier said than done of course.
Stafford and Roy have not been good thus far. That needs to change. And Vanek/Poms have cooled off drastically.

However, is it really any surprise that Vanek/Poms started cooling off once the injury bug hit? You need secondary scoring to keep opposing teams from focusing entirely on shutting down 3 or 4 guys. We don't have that right now.

Let me just say this for the post-game talk after we lost tonight:

Vanek-Szczechura-Pominville
Whitmore-Roy-Stafford
Adam-Gaustad-Kassian
Foligno-Ellis-McCormick

Could be:

Vanek-Hecht-Pominville
Ennis-Roy-Stafford
Leino-Adam-Kassian
Gerbe-Gaustad-Boyes

And oh, by the way, our #1 all-situations defenseman is hurt too.

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Old
12-20-2011, 08:21 AM
  #70
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Originally Posted by HiddenInLight View Post
At this point I'm not really thinking that it is under performing players. At this point the only roster player not really producing is McCormick, and he doesn't really score anyways. I think the main problem right now besides the obvious (injuries) is the way the defense shells up with the lead. I don't like that they stop attacking when they go up by a few goals. The other team can't score if the puck is in their zone. This shelling up style of play just hangs our goalie, whoever they might be out to dry. If they are up by two they need to try for 3 if by five try for 6. Honestly I'm thinking that that is on the coach. How many leads have we given up just hanging back playing defense? Way too many.


they arent built to really sustain pressure in the o-zone. any time the sabres get zone time at es they are always contained against the boards. they arent strong enough to out work big nhl defense men and generate chances off the fore-check.

the last game we witnessed a very physical team pound the sabres d. that style sends a message, it creates room, and it will help lead to chances later on. the sabres harmlessly flail at defense man, they arent built to out zone time teams like pgh, bos, det, and many others.

the sabres are built to score off the rush, but they cant waste chances.

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Old
12-20-2011, 08:27 AM
  #71
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You can't get only 19 shots (including the goals) in a game and expect to win...

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Old
12-20-2011, 10:27 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by TehDoak View Post
http://espn.go.com/nhl/standings/_/group/2

We've been devastated by injuries, including missing our #1 d-man and #1 goalie for extended stretches, and yet, magically, we're still in the playoffs. Are we where we should be? No. But the reality is that this team has had a rotating lineup for the last 20 games. So please, for the love of all that is holy, calm the hell down. People are crying like we're 0-33-0. We've been hit with more injuries than anyone else in the league and had struggles in important places, but yet, we're still a playoff team.

The world has not ended. We don't need a complete rebuild. And we don't need to fire everyone and everyone who built this team.
Thank You. Thank you. Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you


Thanks

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Old
12-21-2011, 08:27 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by HarryNealesGarden View Post
A bubble team playing at 50% strength. I don't understand how people can just ignore the fact that we're fielding half an AHL team. This is not the Buffalo Sabres.

When the team was healthy, they were sitting SECOND IN THE CONFERENCE AND PUSHING FOR FIRST. Then half the team gets hurt and all of a sudden we need to blow it up and rebuild? Be serious.

If the full roster comes back healthy and they bomb out in the first round again, then we can talk big-time changes. But it's absolute tomfoolery to be talking about blowing up a team that's been a little below .500 lately when they've also iced 12 rookies. TWELVE!!! That's OVER HALF A STARTING ROSTER.

This isn't some typical mid-season injury bug most teams deal with. It's a brutal aberration for a team that had chemistry issues to begin with and never got a chance to grow.

Give it at least until everyone's healthy for a few weeks. Jeez.
People KEEP BRAGGING about where this team was in the rankings before injuries....NOT ACKNOWLEDGING that the schedule in the first 2 months was SOFT! It was loaded with mostly bottom feeders. So stop acting as if this team when healthy is playoff built. It isn't. Not with this core. That's got NOTHING to do with AHL'ers coming up. Nothing.

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Old
12-21-2011, 09:31 PM
  #74
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I tend to agree with many on here. This team is rotten to the core.
There are free loaders on this roster and they are showing their ugly heads now.
My main concern is Stafford's inability to step up on his own and elevate his game to the next level.

Also, when you look at Vanek and Pominville, although they are contributing they aren't an impact line or a game changing line. They are missing a piece, in the middle. We all know this, so does the organization.

We might be fortunate to see a very rare line 3 or 4 goal, very rare. That is a real problem as well, no secondary scoring.

Then there is the defense, or chaos squad in the Sabres case. They cough the puck up more times than a 30 year smoker. Is there any cohesion in the D pairs? I haven't seen much of any. It's a mess right now and 1 injury, Myers, shouldn't throw this entire group into this type of play.

No, there is something deeper going on here. This team is plagued with multiple issues. Addressing those issues may take time, but the organization has had almost a half a season to ***** this. They were aware of the center issue long before the season started. They were also aware the defense is effectively being rebuilt and they are trying to wedge pieces in there like Gragnani or Weber, or even McNabb.

But the playoffs are not really a reality when you have those issues and are playing with the roster like that, without the injuries. I'm not inspired right now, that's not to say I won't be, but the team has assets it could move now to potentially better the product on the ice. So far they haven't acted, and that includes before the injuries.

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