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Old
12-19-2011, 05:28 PM
  #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
He's small, he hasn't been a prolific point scorer, he has to be a very good defensive player to make a NHL lineup soon. Nearly 5 years since being drafted in the lottery and he still hasn't stepped on NHL ice. Isn't that alarming?
It would be alarming if we didn't have Jack Johnson and Drew Doughty.

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Old
12-19-2011, 05:49 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Telos View Post
It would be alarming if we didn't have Jack Johnson and Drew Doughty.
And Voynov, Martinez, Forbort, Muzzin, Deslauriers; etc.

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Old
12-19-2011, 05:50 PM
  #103
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Doughty does not provide the standard development model for NHL D.

He's 22. He's a great skater. A 22 year old Gold Medal winning Captain for Team Canada gets a couple more years to develop into a regular NHL D before we bury him in a beer league.

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12-19-2011, 06:31 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by RH63 View Post
No, not alarming at all. Yeah, he's undersized but he's really improved on getting stronger and playing solid defense. You also have to remember that he was injured for a couple of seasons so, you have to factor that in to the equation.

Yeah, he's been a disappointment, but I still think he has good upside and I expect for his scoring to pick up.
Injuries are going to happen when you are an undersized defenseman. That's why you don't draft them with a lottery pick unless they are a clear-cut pick above everyone else. Taking Hickey at #4 is and always has been a huge gamble that more and more looks like a colossal error.

P.S. does anyone remember how much noise Lombardi made after that pick? It was an extremely arrogant, look-at-how-smart-I-am comment about how when he was in San Jose he was forced to draft Zyuzin because he was the consensus #1 Defenseman even though he personally knew that Derek Morris was the better player? ...And that he didn't want to make the same mistake twice - thus the drafting of Hickey in front of Alzner even though Alzner was the consensus better player? Well how exactly did that work out Lombardi?

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12-19-2011, 06:33 PM
  #105
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So Hickey's a loser because Lombardi picked him? Excellent.

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12-19-2011, 11:22 PM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
With the 2012 draft six months away, it would mark the five year anniversary of when the Kings made the most head scratching selection in team history, right along with Dan Gratton and Craig Duncanson. He's got a long hill to climb to get a sniff at an NHL game with the Kings.
i was at the forum for the '85 draft, i kept wishing they would of taken big D dave "charlie" manson with 1 of their 2 pics, instead he went to chicago right after the kings picked,

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Old
12-21-2011, 02:18 AM
  #107
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I think in the overall scheme of things that Hickey was the right pick. I say this because if Vorachek or Alzner had been selected and possibley made the team and played even one game it may have changed the position that LA drafted in 2008 and then Doughty would not have been available. You know, that whole altered universe thing if one thing changes.

Regardless, I'd like for Hickey to at least get a cup of coffee with LA. He's put in his time. It would be a shame to trade him without giving him the chance to show what he's got. Playing in the NHL is different than in the AHL. I think he'd do well.

He has a birthday coming up. I think a game in February would be a very nice Bday present.

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Old
12-21-2011, 03:50 AM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dream Big View Post
Regardless, I'd like for Hickey to at least get a cup of coffee with LA. He's put in his time. It would be a shame to trade him without giving him the chance to show what he's got. Playing in the NHL is different than in the AHL. I think he'd do well.

He has a birthday coming up. I think a game in February would be a very nice Bday present.
I'd prefer it if he played his way on the team instead of just getting called up by default because he put in his time. Score some damn points, will you Hickey? Even defensive d-man Andrew Campbell, a 6-3 brick on skates, is outscoring him.

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Old
12-21-2011, 05:11 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
I believe the Kings received in that deal was Rick Martin, but close enough. The idea is the same and it really sucks that the Kings were run that way for so long.
I'm not going to pretend that the Martin deal was smart or that Kings' management ran the team well, but I think that you have to factor in that free agency didn't exist at that time for anyone but players who were released by their former teams. The only way to bring in a veteran player worth anything was to trade for him

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12-21-2011, 11:03 AM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apadilla View Post
i was at the forum for the '85 draft, i kept wishing they would of taken big D dave "charlie" manson with 1 of their 2 pics, instead he went to chicago right after the kings picked,
Wow, so you got to witness that draft live? It's astonishing how the Kings selected two players back-to-back in the first round in the 1985 draft that ended up playing a combined 45 NHL games. The most successful player the Kings would select from that draft would end up being Petr Prajsler, whose NHL career lasted for 46 games.

Not a single pick from the Kings in that draft would be a regular NHLer. Yet people got upset when they dealt all those picks for Gretzky. You just know that the Kings would surely have found a way to screw up those picks or just trade them away for useless junk. That is what this franchise was known for doing in the 80s.

It's unfortunate that Hickey may wind up being one of those wasted picks. It's not his fault or doing though, even he was shocked to be called to the podium that early.

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12-21-2011, 11:22 AM
  #111
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I still think Hickey is going to develop into a NHL player, hell I would argue that he is ready for 5-6 duties right now. It is just a series of unfortunate happenings that have kept him out of the league for this long. LA drafted him to be doing what Drew/Jack are supposed to be doing for us now, quarterbacking and providing offense for the top 4. Little did we know we were going to be handed a Norris nominated prospect the very next year... Then Hickey fell to some unfortunate injuries. Now that they are behind him, he no longer has a place on the team. The kid needs to be traded, he can still be an NHL asset, just has no chance on this team. Should be involved in a deadline deal this year.

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12-21-2011, 11:55 AM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
It's unfortunate that Hickey may wind up being one of those wasted picks. It's not his fault or doing though, even he was shocked to be called to the podium that early.
More than the injuries, I think the amount of added pressure that Thomas put on himself because he was taken so high, is probably the biggest factor in why he hasn't seen time in the NHL yet.

For instance, take a look at his first performance in the WJC, as a 18 year old on the 2nd pairing with Luke Schenn, he was extremely solid. His skating was fluid. His first pass was very accurate and his defense was stout. Contrast that with his second performance in the WJC, as a 19 year old wearing the Captain's "C". He was tentative, made poor defensive reads and universally panned by most fans. You can't tell me that he forgot how to play hockey over the course of a year. He was older, bigger, stronger and smarter, but his performance was subpar.

The kid is his own worst enemy. When he is relaxed and on his game, he's dynamite. Good skater, great passer, very accurate shot and a natural leader. I still think he can top out as a quality 2nd pairing d-man at the NHL level.

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Old
12-21-2011, 12:28 PM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thrice View Post
More than the injuries, I think the amount of added pressure that Thomas put on himself because he was taken so high, is probably the biggest factor in why he hasn't seen time in the NHL yet.

For instance, take a look at his first performance in the WJC, as a 18 year old on the 2nd pairing with Luke Schenn, he was extremely solid. His skating was fluid. His first pass was very accurate and his defense was stout. Contrast that with his second performance in the WJC, as a 19 year old wearing the Captain's "C". He was tentative, made poor defensive reads and universally panned by most fans. You can't tell me that he forgot how to play hockey over the course of a year. He was older, bigger, stronger and smarter, but his performance was subpar.

The kid is his own worst enemy. When he is relaxed and on his game, he's dynamite. Good skater, great passer, very accurate shot and a natural leader. I still think he can top out as a quality 2nd pairing d-man at the NHL level.
I do as well. I think some of the let down in numbers early this season is a combination of being down due to seeing Voynov make the team over him as an injury recall, and the fact Manchester's offense is worse than ours (by virtue of who is left to play there, not by actual numbers). Hard to generate much offensive numbers when your teams top goalscorer is Marc-Andre Cliche.

I'm not saying he'll be a big time point guy, but I see a #4 d-man who can chip in 25-30 points a season and log 20 minutes. He won't ever live up to the 4th overall pick, but he will be an NHLer IMO.

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12-21-2011, 01:09 PM
  #114
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Do not forget the "Saga of Darryl Sydor" when it comes to self inflicted pressure and the benefits of patience when developing young D. Hickey is on the same path. Hopefully he won't run into his Larry Robinson too early in his career. The Kings paid dearly while Robinson learned how to not deal with young players.

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Old
12-21-2011, 01:24 PM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc620 View Post
Doughty does not provide the standard development model for NHL D.

He's 22. He's a great skater. A 22 year old Gold Medal winning Captain for Team Canada gets a couple more years to develop into a regular NHL D before we bury him in a beer league.
NO NO..you FOOL!



He has to play at the NHL level at age 20 and below. Otherwise Lombardi is an idiot and this organization SUCKS.


Don't you get it???

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12-21-2011, 01:26 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Telos View Post
I still think Hickey is going to develop into a NHL player, hell I would argue that he is ready for 5-6 duties right now. It is just a series of unfortunate happenings that have kept him out of the league for this long. LA drafted him to be doing what Drew/Jack are supposed to be doing for us now, quarterbacking and providing offense for the top 4. Little did we know we were going to be handed a Norris nominated prospect the very next year... Then Hickey fell to some unfortunate injuries. Now that they are behind him, he no longer has a place on the team. The kid needs to be traded, he can still be an NHL asset, just has no chance on this team. Should be involved in a deadline deal this year.

And you have to factor in just how solid Martinez and Voynov have become in this amount of time.


Those guys were 2nd and 3rd round picks and I can guarantee you if they hadn't played way above expectations Hickey is suited up in black and silver right now.

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12-21-2011, 04:33 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Jaygokings View Post
NO NO..you FOOL!

He has to play at the NHL level at age 20 and below. Otherwise Lombardi is an idiot and this organization SUCKS.

Don't you get it???
i sorry.... i forget under 20 development rule in 21st centry hokey.

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12-21-2011, 07:05 PM
  #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaygokings View Post
And you have to factor in just how solid Martinez and Voynov have become in this amount of time.


Those guys were 2nd and 3rd round picks and I can guarantee you if they hadn't played way above expectations Hickey is suited up in black and silver right now.
Will Voynov see the ice again under Sutter? He got benched for having a bad game by John Stevens, I think Voynov is easily better than Davis Drewiske who was filling in for Mitchell. As for Hickey, he just has bad luck, LA doesn't want someone on their roster who is not gonna be healthy every game. Either way, Hickey might want to move on because of the upcoming talent. I think there is teams dumb enough to trade for him. Face it we need a better bottom 6.


Last edited by kingsdarkness: 12-21-2011 at 07:08 PM. Reason: added.
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12-21-2011, 07:11 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Vortex View Post
Injuries are going to happen when you are an undersized defenseman. That's why you don't draft them with a lottery pick unless they are a clear-cut pick above everyone else. Taking Hickey at #4 is and always has been a huge gamble that more and more looks like a colossal error.

P.S. does anyone remember how much noise Lombardi made after that pick? It was an extremely arrogant, look-at-how-smart-I-am comment about how when he was in San Jose he was forced to draft Zyuzin because he was the consensus #1 Defenseman even though he personally knew that Derek Morris was the better player? ...And that he didn't want to make the same mistake twice - thus the drafting of Hickey in front of Alzner even though Alzner was the consensus better player? Well how exactly did that work out Lombardi?
probably pretty well. They may both turn out as failures, but at least he had the balls to stand up for what he believed in.

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Old
12-21-2011, 07:17 PM
  #120
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Regarding Voynov (and Martinez, Drewiske) - John Stevens is an excellent D coach who works really well with young players. He can focus on that now that Sutter is here. Voynov will learn to simplify his decisions in this league - to make the fast simple play first - and then add to that as he develops. He's a keeper.

Regarding Loktionov - a living example of why you keep smaller, lighter skill players down in the minors as long as possible: they hone their skill and build confidence against players at or below their own skill level. All the while they build their game condition by playing lots and lots of minutes.

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12-22-2011, 01:34 AM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Duc620 View Post

Regarding Loktionov - a living example of why you keep smaller, lighter skill players down in the minors as long as possible: they hone their skill and build confidence against players at or below their own skill level. All the while they build their game condition by playing lots and lots of minutes.
Can't argue that. Loktionov needs to make it a full year (or two) without separating his shoulder(s). Kid has offensive mojo that you can't teach.

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12-22-2011, 01:37 AM
  #122
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Sutter dealt with a bit of an enigmatic Russian forward in the past in Calgary when he had Oleg Saprykin as well as another one in San Jose with Alexander Korolyuk. He had no qualms playing them when they were performing, so I see no reason for him to single out Loktionov or Voynov, so long as they play well enough to be in the lineup. I think we are probably expecting too much from them at times as they're still fairly young and inexperienced. It's too much to expect of them to step in and be impact players right off the bat.

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12-22-2011, 01:41 AM
  #123
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I really like Martinez, and think he is just scratching the surface of his talent, but I'd bet he is the one moved at some point this season. There are too many teams looking for cheap, young puck moving defenseman and I doubt the Kings make it thruthe deadline without dealing from that position of strength.

Hickey would become the #8, and might see some action should someone get hurt.

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12-22-2011, 08:57 AM
  #124
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Originally Posted by Jaygokings View Post
And you have to factor in just how solid Martinez and Voynov have become in this amount of time.


Those guys were 2nd and 3rd round picks and I can guarantee you if they hadn't played way above expectations Hickey is suited up in black and silver right now.
Couldn't you also say that Hickey has played way below expectations?

Any way you choose to look at it, he was a terrible pick.

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12-22-2011, 09:49 AM
  #125
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I really like Martinez, and think he is just scratching the surface of his talent, but I'd bet he is the one moved at some point this season. There are too many teams looking for cheap, young puck moving defenseman and I doubt the Kings make it thruthe deadline without dealing from that position of strength.

Hickey would become the #8, and might see some action should someone get hurt.
Who is the top 8 in your eyes with Martinez?

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