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Old
12-22-2011, 10:21 AM
  #26
VEGASKING
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07/08 -19 and the defense was 28th at 3.21 ga/g
08/09 -18 and the defense was 11th at 2.76 ga/g
09/10 -15 and the defense was 9th at 2.57 ga/g
10/11 -21 and the defense was 6th at 2.39 ga/g
11/12 -10 and on pace for -25 and the defense is 7th at 2.39 ga/g

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12-22-2011, 10:29 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by VEGASKING View Post
07/08 -19 and the defense was 28th at 3.21 ga/g
08/09 -18 and the defense was 11th at 2.76 ga/g
09/10 -15 and the defense was 9th at 2.57 ga/g
10/11 -21 and the defense was 6th at 2.39 ga/g
11/12 -10 and on pace for -25 and the defense is 7th at 2.39 ga/g
That is a scary stat. The only thing I have to say is that I believe Murray Nuetered the poor lad. JJ seems to play with fire and heart and the fire has not been there since the first season. Lets see what Sutter can do with the boy.

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12-22-2011, 10:49 AM
  #28
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I think a big reason for his disproportionate +/- is who he is sent on the ice with and the GF/GA ratio at even strength. With the Kings struggling to score at even strength the past few seasons, his +/- stats are naturally going to take a hit, although some of it is his own doing.

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12-22-2011, 11:14 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by funky View Post
That is a scary stat. The only thing I have to say is that I believe Murray Nuetered the poor lad. JJ seems to play with fire and heart and the fire has not been there since the first season. Lets see what Sutter can do with the boy.
Odds are when you're watching a Kings game and the other team scores JJ is on the ice. When they show the replay you'll normally find poor old Jack standing in front of the net, lost, looking around, trying to think but nothing's happening. I love the guys skills, love him in the shootout, great stick handler, great skater but I refuse to drink the Purple Kool Aid-he's awful defensively when his feet are not moving. It's as though once his feet stop his brain stops.

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12-22-2011, 11:15 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
I think a big reason for his disproportionate +/- is who he is sent on the ice with and the GF/GA ratio at even strength. With the Kings struggling to score at even strength the past few seasons, his +/- stats are naturally going to take a hit, although some of it is his own doing.
Last year Jack was the only regular defenseman who was a minus and he was way below zero. That takes a special "skill" to accomplish. He also generates most of his points on the PP, which doesn't help his +/-; he needs to become more of a threat at even strength.

Jack is just bad at "defense" right now. He can still improve and I believe he will, he seems to be folllowing the normal learning curve for NHL defensemen. I don't think it is just bad luck, bad luck happens to everyone.

Why does Jack play so much better when Doughty is out of the lineup? It just feels like it is mental with Jack right now. When Jack is hitting and moving his feet, he usually plays better. Hopefully Sutter will get some swagger back in Jack's game.

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12-22-2011, 11:22 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by VEGASKING View Post
07/08 -19 and the defense was 28th at 3.21 ga/g
08/09 -18 and the defense was 11th at 2.76 ga/g
09/10 -15 and the defense was 9th at 2.57 ga/g
10/11 -21 and the defense was 6th at 2.39 ga/g
11/12 -10 and on pace for -25 and the defense is 7th at 2.39 ga/g
+/- is not just about defense, it's also related to offense. Just wanted to emphasize that, since you only used defensive numbers to show how bad he is.

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12-22-2011, 11:22 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
Last year Jack was the only regular defenseman who was a minus and he was way below zero. That takes a special "skill" to accomplish. He also generates most of his points on the PP, which doesn't help his +/-; he needs to become more of a threat at even strength.

Jack is just bad at "defense" right now. He can still improve and I believe he will, he seems to be folllowing the normal learning curve for NHL defensemen. I don't think it is just bad luck, bad luck happens to everyone.

Why does Jack play so much better when Doughty is out of the lineup? It just feels like it is mental with Jack right now. When Jack is hitting and moving his feet, he usually plays better. Hopefully Sutter will get some swagger back in Jack's game.
Agreed. I hope Sutter sees what he has in his D corp, 3 offensive dmen, 3 great stay at home dmen and responsible centers. That should mean the 3 offensive dmen should be allowed to be creative offensively and skate with the puck. Having jack and Drew stand stationary on the blue line isn't working, I think all King fans would agree with that. Doughty and Jack should be allowed to do what Boyle does just to a lesser extent. Let the kids skate.

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12-22-2011, 11:36 AM
  #33
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Johnson is very talented, but his decisionmaking is baffling sometimes. The good news is he's only 24. It's way too early to give up on him becoming more defensively responsible. Especially since the Kings have him locked up for 6 more years.

I haven't seen as many Kings games as I'd like to this year. Who has been his main defensive partner?

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Old
12-22-2011, 12:48 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Harold Snepsts View Post
Johnson is very talented, but his decisionmaking is baffling sometimes. The good news is he's only 24. It's way too early to give up on him becoming more defensively responsible. Especially since the Kings have him locked up for 6 more years.

I haven't seen as many Kings games as I'd like to this year. Who has been his main defensive partner?
Mitchell and Scuderi. Now with Sutter in charge, he is paired up with Greene on the 3rd unit for tonight's game.

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12-22-2011, 12:52 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by 28kings28 View Post
Mitchell and Scuderi. Now with Sutter in charge, he is paired up with Greene on the 3rd unit for tonight's game.
I don't know that we necessarily have a third pairing. I wouldn't be surprised if all the defensemen saw about the same even strength time.

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12-22-2011, 01:23 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Harold Snepsts View Post
Johnson is very talented, but his decisionmaking is baffling sometimes. The good news is he's only 24. It's way too early to give up on him becoming more defensively responsible. Especially since the Kings have him locked up for 6 more years.

I haven't seen as many Kings games as I'd like to this year. Who has been his main defensive partner?
Agreed. We have about two more years of this craziness. He never had to learn defensive decision making during his development. His athletic skills allowed him to watch something happen, react to it, and then jump into the play. In any league below the NHL, he was fast and big enough to break up a play or change it's direction. In the past couple of years, with Mitchell and Scuderi's help, he is starting to see the game a different way. Next step is to translate that understanding into instinctual play on the ice. When that happens - he will be top five in the league (my opinion).

Do a search for Mitchell's comments about Johnsons upside. I think it was on Hammond's site.


Last edited by Duc620: 12-22-2011 at 01:24 PM. Reason: not enough salt
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Old
12-22-2011, 03:30 PM
  #37
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I've followed JJ since he was with the USNTDP, and the same traits that made him a great junior/college player bite him on the *** at the NHL level. He's a great physical talent, dare I say *good* hockey player, but a mediocre d-man. He'll end up having a Ed Jovonovski like career-which isn't a bad thing, but leaves you wanting more. I just don't think he's wired to play any other way, and no amount of coaching will change that. Maximize the potential, minimize the risk. The Kings just aren't constructed the right way to oblige right now.

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12-22-2011, 04:47 PM
  #38
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Jack Johnson is our best defender right now even betetr than Doughty.
And like other said he finnaly is putting things together.

If someone wants Johnson he has to overpay.

And no..... adding or subtracting 6th rounder won't do
I'm talking about top picks or top youngster in return here.

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12-22-2011, 05:10 PM
  #39
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Jack is a -6 his last three games. Quick and Bernier stuck their stick shaft up his angus with their garbage play.

With that said, I agree with what everyone else says about his play around the net. Good news is he has been making 2 or 3 standout plays in that department a game. That was not the case in years past.

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Old
12-22-2011, 05:38 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Kurrilino View Post
Jack Johnson is our best defender right now even betetr than Doughty.
And like other said he finnaly is putting things together.

If someone wants Johnson he has to overpay.

And no..... adding or subtracting 6th rounder won't do
I'm talking about top picks or top youngster in return here.
Kurr, never stop posting - never change.

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12-22-2011, 07:04 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabid Ranger View Post
I've followed JJ since he was with the USNTDP, and the same traits that made him a great junior/college player bite him on the *** at the NHL level. He's a great physical talent, dare I say *good* hockey player, but a mediocre d-man. He'll end up having a Ed Jovonovski like career-which isn't a bad thing, but leaves you wanting more. I just don't think he's wired to play any other way, and no amount of coaching will change that. Maximize the potential, minimize the risk. The Kings just aren't constructed the right way to oblige right now.
Yep. Been saying he's a less physical Brad Stuart/jovocop for sometime now.

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12-22-2011, 07:43 PM
  #42
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Jack is a -6 his last three games. Quick and Bernier stuck their stick shaft up his angus with their garbage play.

With that said, I agree with what everyone else says about his play around the net. Good news is he has been making 2 or 3 standout plays in that department a game. That was not the case in years past.
One game they played bad. ONE GAME. Why is it always someone else's fault for Johnson's +/-?

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12-22-2011, 07:58 PM
  #43
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One game they played bad. ONE GAME. Why is it always someone else's fault for Johnson's +/-?
He can be so dramatic.

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12-22-2011, 08:49 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by 28kings28 View Post
Mitchell and Scuderi. Now with Sutter in charge, he is paired up with Greene on the 3rd unit for tonight's game.
On paper that seems like a good pairing. Putting him with a more defensive minded guy to compensate for some of his tendencies.

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12-22-2011, 10:47 PM
  #45
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Well after the second period tonight JJ is a -1. Poor guy was doing everything right but big dumb Matt Greene who is only in the NHL because of his size didnt bother boxing out Hagman who scored while he was setup behind Quick.

Why do I bring this up? It seems that JJ is a victem of lazy play by defensive partners quite a bit.

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12-22-2011, 11:29 PM
  #46
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Well after the second period tonight JJ is a -1. Poor guy was doing everything right but big dumb Matt Greene who is only in the NHL because of his size didnt bother boxing out Hagman who scored while he was setup behind Quick.

Why do I bring this up? It seems that JJ is a victem of lazy play by defensive partners quite a bit.
I'm so sick of this bad luck, lazy play of his defensive partner excuse. He's been paired with Mitchell, Doughty, Scuderi, Voynov, Martinez, Drewiske & Greene and yet he's still a minus player. Does anyone but me see a trend here?
There is nobody left for him to be paired with.

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12-22-2011, 11:45 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Scottkmlps View Post
I'm so sick of this bad luck, lazy play of his defensive partner excuse. He's been paired with Mitchell, Doughty, Scuderi, Voynov, Martinez, Drewiske & Greene and yet he's still a minus player. Does anyone but me see a trend here?
There is nobody left for him to be paired with.
I agree to an extent. I just don't get the bad luck, kinda an X-File thing. Plus I am repulsed people wanna move JJ before Greene.

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12-23-2011, 12:01 AM
  #48
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I agree to an extent. I just don't get the bad luck, kinda an X-File thing. Plus I am repulsed people wanna move JJ before Greene.
Well, this is his 5th full season in the league and he STILL makes the mistakes he made in his 1st season. The bad luck thing is an excuse for his bad defensive play. Apparently he has the most bad luck in the entire NHL. He's good when the puck is going forward, but not so much when the puck is going in the other direction.

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12-23-2011, 12:10 AM
  #49
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Jack is just bad at Defense. We have to accept him for what he is. A very gifted Athletic Guy. That makes poor plays with the puck sometimes.

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Old
12-23-2011, 12:12 AM
  #50
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Yep. And that means we shouldn't get too attached in my view.

Either JJ or Greene should go to fix the glut on the back end and add a scorer, which one it is, I'm not really concerned by that. But given that DS and DL basically think the same on all things hockey related, if either goes, it'll be Jack who goes. DS has always had a guy or two like Greene on his teams.

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