The Rangers' Brad Richards scores with .1 seconds left in the 3rd to win the game against the Yotes 3-2. It hit the post with .1 seconds left, and crossed the line at the same time. Unbelievable goal!
calling something ridiculous without knowing the culture up there is not cool. have a look at the numbers: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languag...hics_of_Quebec. the analogy isn't great but imagine if the marlins were to hire a manager who didn't speak english.
calling something ridiculous without knowing the culture up there is not cool. have a look at the numbers: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languag...hics_of_Quebec. the analogy isn't great but imagine if the marlins were to hire a manager who didn't speak english.
It is completely ridiculous to base a coaching decision on whether the individual is a francophone. Using the logic that the coach has to be a francophone, wouldn't that mean that your players need to be francophone too? Obviously it doesn't matter since 17 players on the Canadiens roster are not even from Canada and I highly doubt the majority of their players are francophone.
calling something ridiculous without knowing the culture up there is not cool. have a look at the numbers: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languag...hics_of_Quebec. the analogy isn't great but imagine if the marlins were to hire a manager who didn't speak english.
I agree with the below.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackpanthers
It is completely ridiculous to base a coaching decision on whether the individual is a francophone. Using the logic that the coach has to be a francophone, wouldn't that mean that your players need to be francophone too? Obviously it doesn't matter since 17 players on the Canadiens roster are not even from Canada and I highly doubt the majority of their players are francophone.
Yep. Hire the best available coach, if said coach can't speak French, but can win, so be it.
It is completely ridiculous to base a coaching decision on whether the individual is a francophone. Using the logic that the coach has to be a francophone, wouldn't that mean that your players need to be francophone too? Obviously it doesn't matter since 17 players on the Canadiens roster are not even from Canada and I highly doubt the majority of their players are francophone.
you obviously gave no thought to my analogy. do you acknowledge the numbers posted in the wikipedia article as reasonably accurate? if so, i don't see how the analogy i proposed cannot ring any bells. perhaps the marlins aren't the best choice because they don't have that deep and passionate a fan base? i used the marlins because i could more readily imagine a spanish-speaking coach being brought in, tho spanish speakers enjoy a majority in south florida so they probably would drown out the dozen or so anglophones left down there. the fans in montreal are absolutely crazy about hockey and the overwhelming majority of them are francophone. requiring a translator as an intermediary between your team's leader and *spokesperson* (not every single player - that's not a logical jump) and the overwhelming majority of its fans wouldn't fly in a lot of places, let alone a city that revolves around hockey like montreal does. i would be pissed off if the dolphins hired a coach who didn't speak english. can you imagine how much of a slap in the face that would be, especially when there are qualified english-speaking coaches available? there ARE qualified french-speaking coaches out there.
now the quebecois (as well as french) are very protective of their language and that plays a role but this is where things get very subjective and emotional so i won't go there. but i ought not have to.
if anyone can provide an example of, say, a coach in the english premier league who didn't speak a lick of english (an analogy that might be a closer match), i might reevaluate the importance of the protectionist aspect of the francophones in the equation. anyone?
if anyone can provide an example of, say, a coach in the english premier league who didn't speak a lick of english (an analogy that might be a closer match), i might reevaluate the importance of the protectionist aspect of the francophones in the equation. anyone?
Your analogy has nothing to do with facts. The NHL & MLB are North American leagues. If the NHL was a Quebec league you might have a point but it is NOT it is North American and the last time I checked English is the primary language of North Americans.
From your wiki article: Quebec allophones account for 9% of the population of Quebec, however 88% of this population reside in Greater Montreal. Anglophones are also concentrated in the region of Montreal (80% of their numbers).
Do you need me to explain this any further for you Captain Highlight?
Last edited by blackpanthers: 12-22-2011 at 01:45 PM.
Reason: added quote from wiki article
Your analogy has nothing to do with facts. The NHL & MLB are North American leagues. If the NHL was a Quebec league you might have a point but it is NOT it is North American and the last time I checked English is the primary language of North Americans.
From your wiki article: Quebec allophones account for 9% of the population of Quebec, however 88% of this population reside in Greater Montreal. Anglophones are also concentrated in the region of Montreal (80% of their numbers).
Do you need me to explain this any further for you Captain Highlight?
how obnoxious.
there is no official language of north america. montreal, however lies in quebec and the *official* language in province of quebec is french. a sports league is a business and while big business can sometimes dictate language to a degree in remote lands (for example, the oil areas in the middle east or russia), it doesn't, by default trump a country, province or culture.
the mocking comments are especially ironic considering the sport we all love so much *originated* in montreal. but that is beside the point.
now, as to the facts - the important numbers (which you conveniently ignored/misinterpreted) from the article are
Quote:
Francophones account for 65% of the total population of Greater Montreal, anglophones 12.6% and allophones 20.4%.
i provide this defense of the quebecois knowing that it or something like it could be used to justify hiring a spanish-only speaking manager for the marlins (now in miami where there's a similar 60+% majority).
anyhow, the point of this all is that there is no right answer. the people closest to the story who understand the culture there wouldn't dare suggest the feelings of many (certainly SOME francophones there couldn't care less and just want a winner) in quebec are "ridiculous". first, it's not good for job security. second, they know things are never as simple as some would like to make them. for example, two tidbits from the article laus posted:
Quote:
Critics of the hiring say the Canadiens are more than just a hockey team and, for more than a century, have been an institution that represents French-Canadian pride.
...
One columnist Monday compared the Canadiens to Spanish soccer team Barcelona, which expects its players to learn the Catalan language and whose slogan is "More than a team."
barcelona's probably a perfect analogy for montreal; football's massive there and they are very protective of catalan. and look... they DO expect their players to learn the language. wanna mock them too?
in closing, let's drop it. there is no right answer.
barcelona's probably a perfect analogy for montreal; football's massive there and they are very protective of catalan. and look... they DO expect their players to learn the language. wanna mock them too?
in closing, let's drop it. there is no right answer.
It is. Two "nations within a nation", fiercely protective of their unique identity.
I am in favor of Montreal hiring only french speaking coaches, since it limits their pool of candidates and ultimately only hurts them. If your "enemy" chooses to weaken himself, why criticize? Grab those pom poms and cheer him on while he does it.
I think they should only hire French speaking coaches BORN in Montreal on days when the Habs were playing a home game. Ideally the TV should have been on in the labor suite, but we don't want to get too picky.
__________________
FLORIDA PANTHERS 2011-12 SOUTHEAST DIVISION CHAMPIONS 2012-13 BASEMENT DWELLERS
It is. Two "nations within a nation", fiercely protective of their unique identity.
I am in favor of Montreal hiring only french speaking coaches, since it limits their pool of candidates and ultimately only hurts them. If your "enemy" chooses to weaken himself, why criticize? Grab those pom poms and cheer him on while he does it.
I think they should only hire French speaking coaches BORN in Montreal on days when the Habs were playing a home game. Ideally the TV should have been on in the labor suite, but we don't want to get too picky.
Your analogy has nothing to do with facts. The NHL & MLB are North American leagues. If the NHL was a Quebec league you might have a point but it is NOT it is North American and the last time I checked English is the primary language of North Americans.
From your wiki article: Quebec allophones account for 9% of the population of Quebec, however 88% of this population reside in Greater Montreal. Anglophones are also concentrated in the region of Montreal (80% of their numbers).
Do you need me to explain this any further for you Captain Highlight?
Hahahaha!
Montréal and the Province of Québec couldn't care less of your "North American Leagues" and "North American Language". Just to enlighten you a little bit, Les Canadiens are not "Montréal's team" it's the Province's team. Your number should be 7,8% anglophone.
What the people want is someone that is bilingual. The fans tried to push Saku Koivu out of the club because he didn't spoke french and he was "just" the captain. Some people didn't care, but a lot did. Gionta's first interview as a captain started by saying "Désolé mon français pas bon." Just to show he's doing an effort because people care about this stuff.
I think you have no idea what hockey is to Montréal and the Province of Québec. Maurice Richard's suspension spark a riot that lead to a nationalistic movement which ended up being the "Révolution Tranquille". All of this because we raged against the Anglophone.
Granted that it won't have the same effect this time, but having the most public job in the province, you should be able to speak the language. But anyway, he'll be fired before he will have the time to learn.
Do you need me to explain this any further for you Captain Oblivious?
Montréal and the Province of Québec couldn't care less of your "North American Leagues" and "North American Language". Just to enlighten you a little bit, Les Canadiens are not "Montréal's team" it's the Province's team. Your number should be 7,8% anglophone.
What the people want is someone that is bilingual. The fans tried to push Saku Koivu out of the club because he didn't spoke french and he was "just" the captain. Some people didn't care, but a lot did. Gionta's first interview as a captain started by saying "Désolé mon français pas bon." Just to show he's doing an effort because people care about this stuff.
I think you have no idea what hockey is to Montréal and the Province of Québec. Maurice Richard's suspension spark a riot that lead to a nationalistic movement which ended up being the "Révolution Tranquille". All of this because we raged against the Anglophone.
Granted that it won't have the same effect this time, but having the most public job in the province, you should be able to speak the language. But anyway, he'll be fired before he will have the time to learn.
Do you need me to explain this any further for you Captain Oblivious?
No but from the tone of your post you do a good job representing the arrogance of French culture that exists in north america. The sense of entitlement and better than thou attitude that french canadiens seems to have because youre great great ancestors are from france you believe its important to rub your culture in to everyone else's face.
Give me a break. Thank god quebec is not a state in The united states. the rest of the states would never put up with that ********.
No but from the tone of your post you do a good job representing the arrogance of French culture that exists in north america. The sense of entitlement and better than thou attitude that french canadiens seems to have because youre great great ancestors are from france you believe its important to rub your culture in to everyone else's face.
Give me a break. Thank god quebec is not a state in The united states. the rest of the states would never put up with that ********.
Quick tip when if you meet Canadian tourists where you are or if you're travelling somewhere. Easiest, fastest, most reliable way to bore a Canadian: talk to him about Quebec separatism.
It is. Two "nations within a nation", fiercely protective of their unique identity.
I am in favor of Montreal hiring only french speaking coaches, since it limits their pool of candidates and ultimately only hurts them. If your "enemy" chooses to weaken himself, why criticize? Grab those pom poms and cheer him on while he does it.
I think they should only hire French speaking coaches BORN in Montreal on days when the Habs were playing a home game. Ideally the TV should have been on in the labor suite, but we don't want to get too picky.
not surprisingly, the most reasonable, intelligent and funny post from our fans on the subject. night and day compared to the cultural insensitivity and ignorance on display earlier.
only issue i'll take is that, since just about every boy AND girl plays hockey growing up in quebec, they may not in fact be limiting their pool of candidates all that much.
Conversation's getting into the realm of politics and is beginning to hijack the thread, so can it now, please.
As long as the tone is kept civil (which has been borderline at best), I have no problem with this line of conversation. It is a legitimate NHL news story and worthy of discussion.
Having said that, I think everything that needs to be said about this topic has been said, so let's move on.
a continuation of http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=1068249&page=3, in the appropriate place. this is reasonable discussion to have, imo. atf agrees above and he was the one who posted the story today and so re-opened the discussion.
i also disagree that i was flaming or insulting. there's no question that some who've responded here are biased and/or dislike the canadiens and their fans, for various reasons.
in said thread, the froggy sayeth:
Quote:
I deleted the parts that were inflammatory. Disagree with me if you like, but please refrain from being insulting.
Personally, I don't care what Montreal does. I don't hate them at all (although the behavior of some of their fans at the BAC has been very offensive)... well, I don't hate them any more than any other future division rival I should say.
I think the FANS have every right to ask for a coach that represents them. When the ORGANIZATION comes to and says that hiring someone who is not french speaking was a mistake, that's different. It's discriminatory. Organizations are held to a different standard than guys on the street (or dumb hockey players). Poorly played by the Habs. They should have kept their mouths shut and fired him over the all star break because of the team's poor performance.
Let's just agree to disagree on the rest. This is a Barch thread, not a Habs coaching thread. If you feel the need to debate this with me further, please do it via PM.
uh... so "organizations" like, say, any business in miami that requires applicants be bilingual in english and spanish are discriminating or racists??? no - it's neither discrimination nor racism. this is the quebecois' team and one of the most (if not THE most) important institutions in the province where french is the official language.
the habs probably should've coached cunneyworth on how to deal the promotion.... unless they really didn't care if he failed. either way, the critics of the organization (and the province) have nothing to stand on. the history of the organization as articulated in the times' post repeated in the barch thread ought to make that abundantly clear.
Not the first time they've had an English only coach, zero. And can ask for a francophone, winning coach is why should matter.
ugh. i realize that. did you read the article from the times i posted a link to? it said as much. however, the last one was 40 years ago and was fired for clashing with french canadian players, as stated in the article. a lot has changed in quebec since then with regard to the english/french politics. also, every anglophone since has at least had a working knowledge of the language, which is all they are asking for. jeez.
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