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Old
12-22-2011, 05:05 PM
  #176
LePoche69
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Really, I'm confused. You guys make me reconsider the last 35 years during which I watched and played hockey a lot... Beside hitting, at what Emelin is good exactly?

I'm not saying he won't be good, I'm saying that beside Campoli, he was the worse d-man on the team. Gill wasn't really better, I agree, but he's a beast on the PK and a leader. I don't like what I see from Campoli, but the guy is a ligitimate NHLer who has been hurt, so at least he deserves a chance.

Emelin is slow to react, more often than not taken in bad position, takes bad decisions when covering the opponents, have problems making an outlet pass, brings absolutly nothing offensively and have hard times communicating efdficiently with his partner. I simply can't believe that people can't see that. He was good for 2 or 3 games, not much. People should forget a bit the hits and watch the other aspects of the game.

Now... I agree that the other d-men of the team are not stellar and that the Habs could use to develop a physical young d-man. Don't worry, it will come pretty fast...

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12-22-2011, 05:12 PM
  #177
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Sick and tired of small, soft d-men who bring nothing to the team.
Play Emelin on his side, and play him a lot, he has so much potential to become a player that we haven't had for a long time. Is not like Diaz and Campoli are playing great hockey, give this guy a chance and he will be good, hard-hitting type of dman who will be feared by the oposition. Otherwise he might sign with another team next season, or ho back home.

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12-22-2011, 05:17 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by VAN-HAB View Post
Sick and tired of small, soft d-men who bring nothing to the team.
Play Emelin on his side, and play him a lot, he has so much potential to become a player that we haven't had for a long time. Is not like Diaz and Campoli are playing great hockey, give this guy a chance and he will be good, hard-hitting type of dman who will be feared by the oposition. Otherwise he might sign with another team next season, or ho back home.
actually they do, but since our coach though he would dress em all in a game... well...

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12-22-2011, 05:18 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by LePoche69 View Post
Really, I'm confused. You guys make me reconsider the last 35 years during which I watched and played hockey a lot... Beside hitting, at what Emelin is good exactly?

I'm not saying he won't be good, I'm saying that beside Campoli, he was the worse d-man on the team. Gill wasn't really better, I agree, but he's a beast on the PK and a leader. I don't like what I see from Campoli, but the guy is a ligitimate NHLer who has been hurt, so at least he deserves a chance.

Emelin is slow to react, more often than not taken in bad position, takes bad decisions when covering the opponents, have problems making an outlet pass, brings absolutly nothing offensively and have hard times communicating efdficiently with his partner. I simply can't believe that people can't see that. He was good for 2 or 3 games, not much. People should forget a bit the hits and watch the other aspects of the game.

Now... I agree that the other d-men of the team are not stellar and that the Habs could use to develop a physical young d-man. Don't worry, it will come pretty fast...
I swear I thought you were talking about Campoli there...

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12-22-2011, 05:23 PM
  #180
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Originally Posted by LePoche69 View Post
Really, I'm confused. You guys make me reconsider the last 35 years during which I watched and played hockey a lot... Beside hitting, at what Emelin is good exactly?

I'm not saying he won't be good, I'm saying that beside Campoli, he was the worse d-man on the team. Gill wasn't really better, I agree, but he's a beast on the PK and a leader. I don't like what I see from Campoli, but the guy is a ligitimate NHLer who has been hurt, so at least he deserves a chance.

Emelin is slow to react, more often than not taken in bad position, takes bad decisions when covering the opponents, have problems making an outlet pass, brings absolutly nothing offensively and have hard times communicating efdficiently with his partner. I simply can't believe that people can't see that. He was good for 2 or 3 games, not much. People should forget a bit the hits and watch the other aspects of the game.

Now... I agree that the other d-men of the team are not stellar and that the Habs could use to develop a physical young d-man. Don't worry, it will come pretty fast...
This I dont understand.

Hal Gill is simply a myth, a legend, a ghost. He has the worst +/- on the team yet he is constantly praised for his defense. He is hoisted as a "leader" yet what is he leading? Has he caused our DMen to step up their play? Has Subban excelled this year from having Hal Gill, "the leader", on the team?

Time for Gill to step aside. Hell, he should not have even been signed for this season. Gill is the past, Emelin is the future (maybe, with the treatment that he has gotten this year, Emelin may be the future for another team).

Piss poor asset management by Martin and Gauthier.

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12-22-2011, 05:38 PM
  #181
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
I swear I thought you were talking about Campoli there...
Or every OTHER defenceman on the team...

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12-22-2011, 05:40 PM
  #182
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This I dont understand.

Hal Gill is simply a myth, a legend, a ghost. He has the worst +/- on the team yet he is constantly praised for his defense. He is hoisted as a "leader" yet what is he leading? Has he caused our DMen to step up their play? Has Subban excelled this year from having Hal Gill, "the leader", on the team?

Time for Gill to step aside. Hell, he should not have even been signed for this season. Gill is the past, Emelin is the future (maybe, with the treatment that he has gotten this year, Emelin may be the future for another team).

Piss poor asset management by Martin and Gauthier.
well said

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12-22-2011, 05:44 PM
  #183
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
I swear I thought you were talking about Campoli there...
You're right. That is right for Campoli also. I'm not defending Campoli. But since he's a NHLer who had been hurt arfter not having a training camp, I think he deserves a chance. At least as much as Emelin got.

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12-22-2011, 05:50 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
This I dont understand.

Hal Gill is simply a myth, a legend, a ghost. He has the worst +/- on the team yet he is constantly praised for his defense. He is hoisted as a "leader" yet what is he leading? Has he caused our DMen to step up their play? Has Subban excelled this year from having Hal Gill, "the leader", on the team?

Time for Gill to step aside. Hell, he should not have even been signed for this season. Gill is the past, Emelin is the future (maybe, with the treatment that he has gotten this year, Emelin may be the future for another team).

Piss poor asset management by Martin and Gauthier.
Where did I praised Gill for his defense? I think he's bad, and I said it in my post.

I just said he was good on the PK, which is true if you watch the games, and a leader. But you're right, Gill being a leader is a myth. That's why the coaching staff made of experienced hockey men decided he would have an "A" on his shirt. You're right and they're wrong. Why are you not coaching a team?

And you,re talking about his +/-, which is true. Gill is the worst. Emelin is just after him. Yet he's better than all the other d-men? I don't understand the logic.

I know that Emelin must be developped, and I think that it is exactly what's happening right now.

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12-22-2011, 05:53 PM
  #185
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Originally Posted by LePoche69 View Post
You're right. That is right for Campoli also. I'm not defending Campoli. But since he's a NHLer who had been hurt arfter not having a training camp, I think he deserves a chance. At least as much as Emelin got.
and that's the thing, while Emelin is no god he does bring something different... Campoli ? meh, another puck mover, like Subban, Diaz, Kaberle, Weber...

including Campoli, that's FIVE puck movers, sure we can spare one for the only heavy hitter we have on the blue line...

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12-22-2011, 05:53 PM
  #186
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Emelin's situation and Subban's situation are very different. Firstly, Subban wasn't scratched nearly as many times as Emelin, and the season's not even over.

Before last season, Subban was given the start treatment and was pretty much touted as being our franchise d-man. He was getting out of hand with his fancy play and needed to be cooled down.

Emelin's role on the team, however, is far less defined. His spot on the future roster isn't set in stone like Subban's. Emelin could me making a lot more money, with a lot more playing time in his HOME COUNTRY, and if this organization doesn't give him a reason to stay, then he'll just split to Russia next season and it'll be yet another young Hab lost because of management. Why would he want to stay on a team with some kind of anti-toughness agenda? The Habs don't have to treat Subban the same way because they're grooming him to be a franchise player and he knows it.

Hell, there's even a chance that a desperate enough team offers him more money/playing time, and all they'd have to give up is a 2nd or 3rd round pick.
Subban also wasn't adjusting to North American style hockey. We all knew and expected Emelin to be benched a lot in the early going. If you don't think Emelin knew this as well, then you are mistaken. He said himself he needs time to adjust to play his game when he signed.

Anyways, I don't hear many praising Gill's OVERALL defense. He is mainly effective on the PK.

The Emelin fandom is a bit over the top but its expected. Not like we are losing games because he is out but his physical presence is missed. Still he makes mistakes like our other dmen. I don't see why so many rip Diaz, aside for hitting he is probably better at everything. But one is a favorite and the other isn't, so Diaz's mistakes are magnified. Even then he hasn't made any mistakes comparable to Subban and Campoli.

We all love what he brings but there is always an odd man out. Look at the Leafs benching Franson for freaking Komisarek.

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12-22-2011, 05:57 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by LePoche69 View Post
Where did I praised Gill for his defense? I think he's bad, and I said it in my post.

I just said he was good on the PK, which is true if you watch the games, and a leader. But you're right, Gill being a leader is a myth. That's why the coaching staff made of experienced hockey men decided he would have an "A" on his shirt. You're right and they're wrong. Why are you not coaching a team?

And you,re talking about his +/-, which is true. Gill is the worst. Emelin is just after him. Yet he's better than all the other d-men? I don't understand the logic.

I know that Emelin must be developped, and I think that it is exactly what's happening right now.
He is not a beast on the PK. Price is.

We are struggling to win a game and our experienced hockey men on the coaching staff knew what they are doing when they gave him the "A"?

Emelin sitting in the press box is not development. Maybe the way Martin and now Cunneyworth looks at development, but no player has ever elevated his game by not playing.

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12-22-2011, 06:03 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
and that's the thing, while Emelin is no god he does bring something different... Campoli ? meh, another puck mover, like Subban, Diaz, Kaberle, Weber...

including Campoli, that's FIVE puck movers, sure we can spare one for the only heavy hitter we have on the blue line...
I don't disagree with you here. But Campoli still deserve a chance. The guy already had a 30pts season in the NHL. He hasn't had a training camp and was hurt after 1 game. he just played 6 games this year. Let,s give him at least 10 more.

I agree a young like Emelin must be developped. But like it or not, he was one of the worse d-man on the team when he was bench. Now I wouldn't be surprise to see Subban benched and Emelin dressed sooner than later. Like the Sabres did with Myers last year. It is all a learning process. Emelin is in that learning process.

People asked the same thing for O'Byrne, but the truth is that he wasn't good. And now he plays regular, but he isn't good, one of teh worse d-man on a team in difficulty.

I have hard time understanding how people can think to know better what's better for teh team and for a young player than guys like Jacques Martin, Pern, Ladouceur, Conneyworth, etc. I think they know better then me. And what I saw of Emelin fits.

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12-22-2011, 06:11 PM
  #189
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For me personally its gotten to the point where I am disappointed in the management of this team more than I have been in many years. I forgave them multiple times for failing to groom our rookies and then losing many of them to disagreements of personalities or poor coaching and mentoring,but if they screw this up with Emelin I will be crushed. Not so much JUST because of what I see in him but because the pattern will become unforgivable.

Hockey is entertainment. Its a religion when you can be at least proud of the team and management, but this years has left me flat and uninterested. I'm no fair weather fan, its the Habs or Hockey doesn't even exist for me but I now see it for what it truly is, a game. Its supposed to be a "spectacle" or at least entertaining and to me and right now its neither. We have had losing and unsuccessful years before, but I was normally entertained by it and still proud of them. Emelin makes the game , for me at least, much much more fun to watch. He's a player we haven't seen in many many years on this team and I think the sky is the limit for him, I really do.

Some people say he can't pass. Some say he makes slow decisions or is out of position all the time. I sometimes wonder if I watch the same games as others do or if I'm maybe the worlds worst talent evaluator. I think his first pass is one of the best on our team. I usually find it's the forwards not being able to handle his passes when in fact they often are incredible. His mobility looks fantastic for a guy of his size and he can handle the puck better than the majority of the defencemen on this team. I would give this kid power play time and I would put him out to kill penalties. I would use him as a 2nd pairing guy on this team today.He has been one of our best 4 defencemen easily in my opinion the last month when he was playing.Sure he makes mistakes, but he is a rookie to this ice size and this league. He certainly hasn't looked out of place in the least...or no more than nay one of our other d-men

I think maybe some people don't realize how poor most of our defenceman really are. I highly doubt Gill plays on any other team remotely in contention and Campoli appears to have been unsigned for so long for a very good reason. Why we traded for Kaberle I have no idea, I mean he is a good defencemen but this team is not ready this year, its obvious. Play the rookies and younger players more and allow them to make errors and adjustments. Thats how they learn. Since we're not in a battle for first overall and quickly dropping from the playoffs in general what do we have to lose? I've seen the mishandling of talent before but its becoming ridiculous. Why Diaz, who is not a threat to go back to Switzerland has been playing ahead of Emelin is beyond me. The last thing we need is another player of the same mold as half our defencemen. We need to have some dynamics, and Emelin brings that. Its his first season here and he was already garnering recognition by other fans as well as the media and other teams. I mean is it a crime to have a player favorably looked upon by others for once? How dense can our coaching staff and management be to not see what he can bring to this floundering team? We're not winning without him, so what gives Diaz, Campoli,Gill and even Subban if we're being honest with ourselves such immunity?

I want to have fun watching the games, win or lose. I would much rather get annoyed with a rookie making a mistake than angry at a veteran earning much more money, especially one that can make you say "wow, THAT was a hit" Who knows, if we give him more time to play we might even see what he can do offensively. I personally think its much more than people give him credit for. I would hate to lose Emelin, especially considering he doesn't even deserve to be sitting and we're not winning anyways.

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12-22-2011, 06:11 PM
  #190
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He is not a beast on the PK. Price is.

We are struggling to win a game and our experienced hockey men on the coaching staff knew what they are doing when they gave him the "A"?

Emelin sitting in the press box is not development. Maybe the way Martin and now Cunneyworth looks at development, but no player has ever elevated his game by not playing.
Ok, I'm sorry, you know how to developp a player better than them, and you know better than them that Gill wasn't a leader on the ice and in the room (like Subban and reporters said it before). Sorry.

By the way, about the bold part, you would be amazed by the number of time I heard a coach said that he had sent a young player in the press box to better watch some aspects of the game, to watch how a player play the game, etc. Lemaire, Pat Burns, Demers, Keenan... But I guess you know better than them.

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12-22-2011, 06:14 PM
  #191
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Ok, I'm sorry, you know how to developp a player better than them, and you know better than them that Gill wasn't a leader on the ice and in the room (like Subban and reporters said it before). Sorry.

By the way, about the bold part, you would be amazed by the number of time I heard a coach said that he had sent a young player in the press box to better watch some aspects of the game, to watch how a player play the game, etc. Lemaire, Pat Burns, Demers, Keenan... But I guess you know better than them.
Why do you want to make this personal and about me? I am simply debating what you wrote, not who you are. Makes for better discussion that way.

Based on the last few games, Campoli, Gill, Subban and Diaz should be in the press box to learn more about playing defense, eh?

The door of that theory swings both ways, or does it?

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12-22-2011, 06:22 PM
  #192
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Having Emelin scratched is not the issue I have. It's the fact that he is getting scratched in place of Campoli. This guy should never have been signed. He sucks at everything. Get this ****ing guy out of here. He sucked with every team he has played with, why would anyone think he would have done well here?

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12-22-2011, 06:27 PM
  #193
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Emelin being scratched is an overrated topic. Won't affect his development and won't affect the outcomes of the games, aside a few booms.

As fans, we like the "what ifs"

"What if Emelin played on his good side and Campoli or Diaz were scratched?"

Bah...wouldn't make much of a difference imo

My speech will change when Markov comes back though.

Our D is too young and offensively focused. Their lack of experience combined with the one dimensional play of Kaberle and Campoli makes our D really vulnerable. There is a lack of balance in there that is not gonna get better with the only addition of a physical but inexperienced Emelin.

Of course I'd be okay with the idea of playing emelin. But it just wouldn't make difference for now.

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12-22-2011, 06:39 PM
  #194
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Having Emelin scratched is not the issue I have. It's the fact that he is getting scratched in place of Campoli. This guy should never have been signed. He sucks at everything. Get this ****ing guy out of here. He sucked with every team he has played with, why would anyone think he would have done well here?
Campoli's been a solid #3-4 defenseman everywhere he went. He's definitely struggling a bit recently but he's missed 8 or 9 weeks of hockey.

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12-22-2011, 07:01 PM
  #195
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Why do you want to make this personal and about me? I am simply debating what you wrote, not who you are. Makes for better discussion that way.

Based on the last few games, Campoli, Gill, Subban and Diaz should be in the press box to learn more about playing defense, eh?

The door of that theory swings both ways, or does it?
You're right, I shouldn't. But it was hard not to make it personnal about you when in your original response to me, you were laughing at my estimation that Habs coaching staff were doing what is needed for the developpement of player, and by laughing at their decision to name Gill an assisstant captain, like if everybody should have known he wasn't a leader.

About the bold part: Of course it works both ways, I agree with that. Now it's Emelin's turn, and it could be someone's else pretty soon, I never said the opposite.

But Campoli deserves a chance (why wouldn't he?), Diaz is probably the more stable d-man on the team after Gorges, Gill is needed on the PK (can you imagine where teh Habs would be if they weren't second in the NHL on the PK)? That left Subban. He gets a free pass because of his level of talent and because of what everybody know he's capable of. But a few more bad games and I'm sure he will end up in the press box.

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12-22-2011, 07:03 PM
  #196
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Yes Emelin first 5 or 6 games he played looked lost abit on the ice,at the begining of season Then was in the stands for awhile but when he came in line up for about a 10 game stretch he was one our best D until they made that trade for Kabs and got switched to the wrong side. He was hitting moving the puck jumping in rush up front. He was doing quite well and getting more confidence each game and they swapped sides on him and now he is in the stands which is setting him back.

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12-22-2011, 07:16 PM
  #197
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Emelin will be a great defenceman as soon as he he gets to play for another team. Habs' handling of this guy has been utterly stupid.

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12-22-2011, 07:41 PM
  #198
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Emelin will be a great defenceman as soon as he he gets to play for another team. Habs' handling of this guy has been utterly stupid.
and he will play with another team, people think that if doesn`t work out he will be going back to Russia. Not true. He will sign with another team in NHL!!!

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12-22-2011, 08:01 PM
  #199
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and he will play with another team, people think that if doesn`t work out he will be going back to Russia. Not true. He will sign with another team in NHL!!!
Could see him signing with the Bruins. That would be just great for us.

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12-22-2011, 08:03 PM
  #200
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Now Subban is healthy scratch

and Eller?

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