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Old
12-22-2011, 02:25 PM
  #26
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Yeah, he's playing like absolute garbage.

Time on ice needed to score a point:

Giroux - 14.3 minutes
Jagr - 16.4 minutes
Hartnell - 18.1 minutes
Briere - 23.1 minutes
JVR - 24.7 minutes
Voracek - 25.0 minutes
Read - 26.1 minutes
Simmonds - 32.3 minutes
Talbot - 35.3 minutes
Couturier - 44.1 minutes

Time on ice needed to score a goal:

Hartnell - 35.1 minutes
Giroux - 36.3 minutes
Jagr - 43.2 minutes
Read - 47.4 minutes
Simmonds - 51.7 minutes
JVR - 55.5 minutes
Briere - 57.8 minutes
Talbot - 58.9 minutes
Couturier - 79.4 minutes
Voracek - 105.19 minutes

We better trade him immediately, he's holding us back.

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Old
12-22-2011, 02:36 PM
  #27
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how come Carle isnt on that list..



oh wait nm..


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12-22-2011, 02:53 PM
  #28
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http://www.csnphilly.com/baseball-ph...370&feedID=704

Quote:
there’s no denying that JVR doesn’t seem to be the same player on the ice since coming back from an abdominal injury in early December.


JVR was defensive this week when quizzed on whether he’s playing with an injury, either old or new.

“I don’t want to get into all this kind of stuff; it can be a slippery slope,” van Riemsdyk said when asked if something is still bothering him.

Do you feel you’re the same player offensively right now?

“Ah, I’d rather not get into all that stuff,” he replied. “I go out there every game working as hard as I can. That’s all I really can do. That is pretty much it.”


During the VERSUS broadcast at Dallas, analyst Eddie Olczyk said that van Riemsdyk wasn’t “skating like he used to.”

The suspicion remains that he’s injured.

“Nobody in that room is 100 percent healthy,” Laviolette said. “Everyone is battling.”

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12-22-2011, 03:12 PM
  #29
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But yeah lets ship him out of town. You do realise that we have signed this guy to a long term extension right? You realise that shipping him out without excuse is the worst move the flyers could possibly make right now.

One day this fanbase will get behind a struggling player, and not blast them at every opportunity. Same people calling for JVR's head are the same ones that were signing his praises in the play-offs, the same ones that wanted Hartnell gone at the start of the season, and the same ones who complain about every other move.

Give it some god damn time. It's really pathetic with the what have you done lately

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12-22-2011, 03:14 PM
  #30
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Eh, I wasnt ever JVR's biggest fan. I never fell into the categorical that same had him as a franchise top player of the team in the future. Can't see it in him. In his prime, I see him as a 70 maybe 80 point player.

In the end, Im all up for trading JVR for a defender such as Weber, Suter, etc etc. These guys are proven good players. JVR is still potential and Im not a big fan of paying for potential.

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Old
12-22-2011, 03:15 PM
  #31
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This has an affect on JVR's play how?
If affects the people complaining about him, nothing more, nothing less.

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12-22-2011, 03:15 PM
  #32
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It's funny how when some players are injured and play through it they're **** on, yet others do the same and they get sympathy.

If he's injured, get him rested up/operated on if need be now. They are going to need more secondary scoring come crunch time.

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Old
12-22-2011, 05:00 PM
  #33
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Maybe they just feel that with so many injured players having one out now due to surgery/rest will affect the team too much. If the entire team, or most of it, was healthy he probably would be out to rest like he was earlier in the year. When JVR was drafted it was going to be a project due to college and adjusting to the NHL.

Give the kid some time and not a limited sample size of 2 seasons. He needs to have more consistent play on a top line rather than the 3rd line with Talbot and Voracek like most of the season since it wasn't until the last game (and maybe the game before) he got playing time with Danny B and no one has played well with him this season so far. I really feel that once he gets healthy and gets better ice time with better players he'll do better.

As for the rest of that draft year only Gagner, Couture, and Sutter have done much besides Kane.

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12-22-2011, 05:26 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
But yeah lets ship him out of town. You do realise that we have signed this guy to a long term extension right? You realise that shipping him out without excuse is the worst move the flyers could possibly make right now.

One day this fanbase will get behind a struggling player, and not blast them at every opportunity. Same people calling for JVR's head are the same ones that were signing his praises in the play-offs, the same ones that wanted Hartnell gone at the start of the season, and the same ones who complain about every other move.

Give it some god damn time. It's really pathetic with the what have you done lately
The problem is that JVR has been given every chance to succeed. And you know what, he's failed. When Richards and Carter was moved, it was because the Flyers management felt JVR was ready to take the next step. And before anyone goes off about how long power forwards take to develop, most players make the jump by year 3. Fact is, JVR has been a disappointment. He knew he was going to get increased ice time. He knew teams were going to focus more on him. Yet for some reason, he gets a pass because he's still learning and it takes longer for bigger forwards to develop. Bull$h!t.

Hey, I want JVR to succeed because it's critical that the Flyers have a franchise winger to work with Giroux for years to come. But at some point, it's also up to JVR to put everything together. And that's what separates good players from great players. Great players do all they can to get to the next level and they don't look for excuses.

Now, with regards to the injury, if he's still injured, then he shouldn't be playing and that's on the medical staff for allowing him to play. At the same time, if he's still injured but afraid to say something for fear of losing his spot, he needs to suck it up and tell someone. He's got a long term contract in his back pocket. It doesn't make any sense for him to suffer through a potentially debilitating injury just because he's afraid of potentially losing his spot. As well, there's a big difference between being injured and playing hurt.

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12-22-2011, 05:36 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
The problem is that JVR has been given every chance to succeed. And you know what, he's failed.
He's pacing for 53 points at 22 while in a SLUMP.

We're mad at a 53 point forward because he's not scoring enough. That should set off some serious alarm signs. He's a hot streak away from pacing for 60-70 points this year.

...At TWENTY-TWO.

Another thing I mentioned at the start of the season is that a lot of players' expected point totals were going to be lower than they realistically should be this year if not for any other reason than because they have to share minutes; share minutes at even strength, share minutes on the PP, and hand the other half of their minutes to Claude Giroux. I knew from the onset that there would be a lot of moaning over some "underachieving" seasons.

Some people around here though really need to take some things into perspective. It's like you were expecting JVR to be Claude Giroux by now. Nobody is Claude Giroux. It's unfair at this juncture to compare him to Giroux.

And if you still want to trade JVR straight up for Ryan be my guest...

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12-22-2011, 05:41 PM
  #36
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I've gone back into "wait and see" mode after the media tweets about him not being 100%. That being said, I'd like to see him rehabbed ASAP. Maybe something will be arranged when Couturier or Schenn return.

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Old
12-22-2011, 05:44 PM
  #37
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I'd be very anxious with him if not for his showing in the last playoffs. At least we know he has "it." He was forechecking strong and he was playing physical all while racking up the points.

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Old
12-22-2011, 08:05 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turkinaa View Post
Maybe they just feel that with so many injured players having one out now due to surgery/rest will affect the team too much. If the entire team, or most of it, was healthy he probably would be out to rest like he was earlier in the year. When JVR was drafted it was going to be a project due to college and adjusting to the NHL.

Give the kid some time and not a limited sample size of 2 seasons. He needs to have more consistent play on a top line rather than the 3rd line with Talbot and Voracek like most of the season since it wasn't until the last game (and maybe the game before) he got playing time with Danny B and no one has played well with him this season so far. I really feel that once he gets healthy and gets better ice time with better players he'll do better.

As for the rest of that draft year only Gagner, Couture, and Sutter have done much besides Kane.
This isnt true though. JVR started the season with Jagr and Giroux, and honestly he was the weak point on that line. He play didnt match Giroux and Jagr's who seemed to have the puck possession into the zone and passed it to each other.

JVR then got moved to Briere's line, with Voracek moving to a line with Read and Talbot. It was only within the pat 5-10 last games that JVR got put on a line with Talbot and Voracek. And you say he needs better linemates. Voracek is producing at the same pace with the same linemates (mostly Talbot and Read).

What pisses me off the most is, his get to the blueline and chestsnipe it, and the go down the wing and try the wraparound which I think he only has scored on it once in his career and he does a few times a game.

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Old
12-22-2011, 08:25 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post

One day this fanbase will get behind a struggling player, and not blast them at every opportunity. Same people calling for JVR's head are the same ones that were signing his praises in the play-offs, the same ones that wanted Hartnell gone at the start of the season, and the same ones who complain about every other move.
This sounds like I am reading the Old Testament prophets. The day you are speaking of is not in this lifetime.

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12-22-2011, 08:29 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by JVR21 View Post
I'd be very anxious with him if not for his showing in the last playoffs. At least we know he has "it." He was forechecking strong and he was playing physical all while racking up the points.
I agree. If not for last year's playoffs, I'd be a ready to get rid of him.

I would be Ok if he turned out to be a 25 goal 50 point player.

I think they need to have patience with him. However, if the opportunity came along to get a defenseman the likes of Suter or Weber, it would be hard to pass up, especially assuming that Pronger is done for good.

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12-22-2011, 09:29 PM
  #41
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JVR is one of those young players that i always find myself pulling for from game to game, but i am usually disappointed in his play after most games it seems.....I am going to give him the benefit of doubt that he is playing hurt and is not 100%.....He is actually playing like he has either a shoulder issue or some other upper body type issue, which can and will really effect ones play, especially on the boards and in the corners......I hope the lad heals up and makes his mark come playoff time.As long as others are stepping up for now, i think JVR can keep his minutes down and perhaps get healed up as he goes along?

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12-22-2011, 09:49 PM
  #42
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Isn't he not 100%? Then rest him till he is. We can go on.

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12-22-2011, 10:02 PM
  #43
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James Van Useless may yet have some value as trade bait for a good defenseman.

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12-22-2011, 10:13 PM
  #44
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His development may be behind b/c of playing College and not Major Jr?

I like him, he just needs to find.... wait for it....







consistency!

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12-22-2011, 11:34 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Well, all of this movement up and down the lineup doesn't help.

He certainly isn't 100% healthy, I can assure you of that.

Usually what you see glimpses of in these kinds of players at this young an age is what they become more consistently by the age of 23 or 24. If JVR comes even within 1/2 of the monster he was for the playoffs then god help the rest of the league.

This really feels like that half year of limbo where everyone thought Giroux might fade out into a 50-point playmaker because he would get hot in spurts but couldn't find any consistency. People here worry a lot.

Notice how quickly Read's offensive start has disappeared. Also take a look at where Voracek, Read, and JVR sit in relation to points on this roster. These three are the guys who aren't seeing the bulk of the playing time and are moving up and down the lineup regularly. You'll start to see JVR and Voracek get some streaks going on to boost their point totals.
JVR has the raw size and skill to become a dominant player...he's got a 100+ mph slapshot, soft/quick hands, great speed at his size...at age 22, he's just scratching the surface of what he can do.

I recall Richards, Carter and even Giroux, each having their growing pains when they were in the early stages of their NHL careers. We heard some people saying the same type of negative things about them then that we are hearing now about JVR. Some called them busts and/or wanted them traded before they eventually raised their games and became more valuable players, forcing the naysayers to eat crow. JVR's production thus far has been only modestly lower than that of Carter and Richards at a similar stage of NHL experience, keeping in mind JVR has had significantly less PP and overall minutes than those two did.

JVR has played about a couple of hundred NHL games. In that time, he's shown flashes of the kind of talent that would be expected of a player of his size and draft position but like many developing young players, he is inconsistent...at this stage of the game it is pretty rare for a player to put it all together and play up to their potential. It would be a mistake to come to negative conclusions about JVRs NHL potential based primarily his current play, especially if he's playing hurt (remember it took a while for Briere to come back after his abdominal surgery).

As others have mentioned, there is that old adage, that it takes power forwards longer to mature. Yes, JVR is a power forward type of player...he may not actually be established as one in the NHL at this point, but when healthy and on top of his game (playoffs last season) he's shown he the ability to assert himself physically along the boards and use his speed and body to blow past the opposition and take the puck to the hole for goals...at times he was holding position down low and cleaning up some garbage in front. This is power forward type stuff.

Thing is, at 6'3" 200 lbs, JVR has not yet fully matured physically (or mentally for that matter). It's going to take 2-3 years for him to add about 20-30 lbs of muscle and become fully developed man...that's part of why it takes power forwards longer to develop...with that additional size and strength comes the confidence it takes to assert physically in the NHL like they once did at lower levels, where opposing players were younger and smaller. Give JVR a year or two... that kind of size and speed converging with a more developed, high-end skillset should result in a pretty formidable NHL player...one we're gonna need once Jagr is gone and Hartnell's contract is up. In the mean time, 50-60 points of production in a second/third line role ain't too shabby.

Given these factors, and considering the route he took to the pros (fewer college games vs. what you get in Junior hockey), people should be a little more patient with JVR.

That said, if you had to send JVR to the Preds in a deal for Weber, that would be one of the few scenarios I'd consider moving him. Otherwise, I consider him a critical part of the Flyers future.


Last edited by fauxflex: 12-22-2011 at 11:40 PM.
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Old
12-23-2011, 12:15 AM
  #46
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JVR has the raw size and skill to become a dominant player...he's got a 100+ mph slapshot, soft/quick hands, great speed at his size...at age 22, he's just scratching the surface of what he can do.

I recall Richards, Carter and even Giroux, each having their growing pains when they were in the early stages of their NHL careers. We heard some people saying the same type of negative things about them then that we are hearing now about JVR. Some called them busts and/or wanted them traded before they eventually raised their games and became more valuable players, forcing the naysayers to eat crow. JVR's production thus far has been only modestly lower than that of Carter and Richards at a similar stage of NHL experience, keeping in mind JVR has had significantly less PP and overall minutes than those two did.

JVR has played about a couple of hundred NHL games. In that time, he's shown flashes of the kind of talent that would be expected of a player of his size and draft position but like many developing young players, he is inconsistent...at this stage of the game it is pretty rare for a player to put it all together and play up to their potential. It would be a mistake to come to negative conclusions about JVRs NHL potential based primarily his current play, especially if he's playing hurt (remember it took a while for Briere to come back after his abdominal surgery).

As others have mentioned, there is that old adage, that it takes power forwards longer to mature. Yes, JVR is a power forward type of player...he may not actually be established as one in the NHL at this point, but when healthy and on top of his game (playoffs last season) he's shown he the ability to assert himself physically along the boards and use his speed and body to blow past the opposition and take the puck to the hole for goals...at times he was holding position down low and cleaning up some garbage in front. This is power forward type stuff.

Thing is, at 6'3" 200 lbs, JVR has not yet fully matured physically (or mentally for that matter). It's going to take 2-3 years for him to add about 20-30 lbs of muscle and become fully developed man...that's part of why it takes power forwards longer to develop...with that additional size and strength comes the confidence it takes to assert physically in the NHL like they once did at lower levels, where opposing players were younger and smaller. Give JVR a year or two... that kind of size and speed converging with a more developed, high-end skillset should result in a pretty formidable NHL player...one we're gonna need once Jagr is gone and Hartnell's contract is up. In the mean time, 50-60 points of production in a second/third line role ain't too shabby.

Given these factors, and considering the route he took to the pros (fewer college games vs. what you get in Junior hockey), people should be a little more patient with JVR.

That said, if you had to send JVR to the Preds in a deal for Weber, that would be one of the few scenarios I'd consider moving him. Otherwise, I consider him a critical part of the Flyers future.

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12-23-2011, 12:23 AM
  #47
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I think when we get some more healthy bodies back (Schenn, Couturier), they may sit him to rest whatever is ailing.

And since I don't think any injury has been made public, he probably can't be traded because he won't pass the physical of his new team. It'll be Blair Betts all over again.

I don't think it's realistic to expect what he gave us out of last year's BOS series every game. Guys always find a little extra in the playoffs. Briere is a mad man in the playoffs, and he occasionally disappears in the regular season too.

With a new contract extension, if JvR himself isn't his own biggest critic, then he has Lavy, Homer, and Snider there to kick him in the ass if need be.

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12-23-2011, 12:40 AM
  #48
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This isnt true though. JVR started the season with Jagr and Giroux, and honestly he was the weak point on that line. He play didnt match Giroux and Jagr's who seemed to have the puck possession into the zone and passed it to each other.

JVR then got moved to Briere's line, with Voracek moving to a line with Read and Talbot. It was only within the pat 5-10 last games that JVR got put on a line with Talbot and Voracek. And you say he needs better linemates. Voracek is producing at the same pace with the same linemates (mostly Talbot and Read).

What pisses me off the most is, his get to the blueline and chestsnipe it, and the go down the wing and try the wraparound which I think he only has scored on it once in his career and he does a few times a game.
I think that he hasn't been healthy all season which has affected his ability to play regardless of what line he is on. Take this as you will but 21 games out of 28 JVR has played 16:30 or less a game (including many between 12 and 14 mins). That just seems like he has spent most of the season shuffling between lines with limited PP time. He also already sat out due to injury this season and one game for Lavy not liking how he was playing. What it comes down to is probably his play habits have changed while being hurt and he falls back to doing things he shouldn't be doing. Generally though JVR, if healthy, should be getting 1st/2nd line duty over 3rd much like how Couturier shouldn't be playing on the 4th line when he was healthy. Give the kid a break.

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12-23-2011, 01:23 AM
  #49
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That's right, get rid of the bum. Power forwards should DEFINITELY be scoring 50 goals a season by this point in their careers and if they aren't they'll never amount to anyhting. Time to trade him for Gonchar.



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12-23-2011, 01:24 AM
  #50
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I'm guessing sports hernia.

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