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Looking back 7 years/Jaromir Jagr appreciation

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Old
12-23-2011, 12:36 PM
  #76
John Torturella
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Must say this whole thread is disappointing. I think you guys are just mad he is a Flyer. If you go back to threads rumoring his NHL return, there is no hate fest there.

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12-23-2011, 12:36 PM
  #77
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Any fan following the team over the 7 YEAR stretch of pitiful hockey deserves to give this man a round of applause. I had to grind through some of the least enjoyable, unsuccessful hockey that I have ever seen.

Jagr comes to the team, has a better season wearing the NYR uniform than anyone (I know some will debate it, but statistically it was), gets us back into the post season and removes us from being the laughing stock of the NHL. Or do people genuinely forget how much of a joke the NYR organization was prior to him coming to the Broadway Blue Shirts?

And sure, we didn't do much with him here, but what have we done with Lundqvist here? Not a whole lot. The best Lundqvist has managed was a second round KO. I don't see anyone holding it against him. Thus, no one should hold it against Jagr.

While I don't think his number should go up into the rafters, he brought electrifying hockey back the Garden, brought credibility back to the NYR and because of that plays an integral role in post 2000 NYR history. That should be applauded.

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12-23-2011, 12:37 PM
  #78
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I definitely agree that Jagr prevented us from rebuilding properly, but that's on Sather and not Jagr. Sather was the one who opted to go in that direction in the first place instead of rebuilding from scratch and avoiding marquee players until the team was ready for it. To hold that against Jagr is a little misguided.

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12-23-2011, 12:37 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by chip chipperson View Post
not in 05/06. jagr put the team on his back and should have won the mvp. yes hank was a factor but that year was all jagr.
Honestly, Lundqvist took the back seat to Jagr each of his first two years here. The third season is a different story. But even than, Jagr was a machine in the post season.

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12-23-2011, 12:37 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
If no Jagr/Straka/Nylander/Rozsival/Malik, the Rangers are a bottom 4 team in the NHL in 2005-06. Here are the top 5 picks in the 2006 draft:

1) Erik Johnson
2) Jordan Staal
3) Jonathan Toews
4) Niklas Backstrom
5) Phil Kessel

They could have easily been just as bad the next year and had a shot at drafting Patrick Kane.

Yeah, the team is very nice the way it is today, but did you enjoy 2007-08? How about 2008-09? 2009-10? All pretty ****** seasons, if you ask me. ****** hockey, ****** teams, no chances at tangible playoff success.
i will take a chance at making the playoffs and winning a cup. and if you want to ***** about a draft, its the 03 one.

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12-23-2011, 12:38 PM
  #81
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Do any of you guys remember prior to the lockout? We had Kovalev, Lindros, Bure, Nedved, Carter, Ruchinsky among others and we couldnt make the playoffs. That was an embarrasment. SO yes the purge had to happen and there was no salary cap before that so Sather purged the team to rebuild not knowing whether there would be a cap or not.

We were picked to be 15th in the east and last in the league and 30th in the league. Lundqvist and Jagr saved that team but you have to give Jagr his props. If not for him, we dont score enough goals to win any games. The season he had was ridiculous, even if it was just that one post-lockout year. I mean, Lemieux and Gretzky had those amazing years in an offensive NHL, you think they are apologetic for that? That team did more in terms of our respectability, which led us to sign free agents like Drury, Shanahan, Gomez, Redden. Did those moves workout? No, but that season that Jagr had gave the Rangers something that they didnt have or years, which was respect. We missed the playoffs for 7 straight years and without that season or Jags leadership, it would have been extended to at least 9.

Jagr also loved being a Ranger, this is where he wanted to go and I guarentee you if the Rangers offered him a better contract, he would have stayed. He is the opponent now and if you dont like him fine. But you cannot deny what he did for the franchise. If I was at the game, I would cheer once and that would be it.

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12-23-2011, 12:38 PM
  #82
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Jagr pouted as is Jagr's way.

And it showed in his play on the ice...as is Jagr's way.

in 97 it was Neil Smith running Messier out of town (after offering him the same money Gretzky was making)

this time it was Sather running Jagr out of town because he didn't negotiate a contract extension DURING the season?

It's never the players decision to want more than they are/were worth. It's ALWAYS the Management teams fault for trying to do what was best for the organization then (97) and now (Sather with Jagr)

As I stated, screw Jagr. And screw Messier as well.

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12-23-2011, 12:39 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by OverTheCap View Post
I definitely agree that Jagr prevented us from rebuilding properly, but that's on Sather and not Jagr. Sather was the one who opted to go in that direction in the first place instead of rebuilding from scratch and avoiding marquee players until the team was ready for it. To hold that against Jagr is a little misguided.
Sather knew what he was doing, perhaps not long term, but in the short run, yes. He made us a competitive team. When we took the Sabres to 6 games in the semi-conference finals we were one elite defense man away from making a legitimate run to the SCF. Legitimately. And the still could have built with youth (it's not like his $4 million cap it was crippling to the team).

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12-23-2011, 12:40 PM
  #84
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-Making the playoffs and not having any reasonable chance to do anything there is not respectable. It's called mediocre, or barely above that, and it only delays the rebuilding process for bad teams like the Rangers were.

-The Rangers were never contenders when Jagr was here. They had one season as an above average club, 2006-07.

-The Rangers could have been where they are today several years ago if they had never acquired Jagr at all. You know, like a rebuilding team might have done. Jagr's presence here essentially delayed the inevitable and probably cost us several year's of Lundqvist's career. Jagr's presence cost us a chance to draft in the top 3-4 for a season or two.

-Jagr never played defense, routinely took his time skating leisurely back to the bench after shifts while opposing teams got odd man rushes against. This happened virtually every game and a bunch of goals against every year were a result of that.

-The fact that the Rangers single season goal record belongs to a guy who got it in a season where scoring was ridiculously inflated sucks. Yeah, Jagr scored 56 goals the way Gomez scored 33 and Gionta scored 48. Give me a ****ing break.

-The team's "success" because of Jagr, and the resulting delusions about the team's greatness, spurred them to sign Gomez and Drury.

-Jagr didn't look anywhere near as good in 2007-08 as he does this season, but he wanted a ******** of money to stay, anyway. Remember how he didn't feel he could properly assume his role as a leader of a team unless he was paid like one, or whatever ******** he said?

Jagr is a great player, arguably the greatest European player of all-time. Watching him play was enjoyable, but his presence here did more harm than good for this franchise. His presence here allowed Sather to continue destroying this team, and if it weren't for Bob Gainey agreeing to make one of the worst moves in the history of the league, the Rangers would still be in the nightmarish scenario that stemmed from Jagr and his time with the club.

And, once again, I can't stand when this team gets hated players from huge rivals. I don't want to see guys I have a deep-seeded hatred for skating in Ranger sweaters. I want to beat those players. I didn't want Lindros, I didn't want Holik, I didn't want Kasparaitis, I didn't want Jagr, I didn't want Gomez. Get your own damn players! I don't care how good they are. I don't want Parise, either. I want New York Rangers!
I don't get this at all.

So you're blaming Jagr because he caused Sather to make signing mistakes and the fact we weren't a lottery team because of him?

How does this make any sense? I agree he routinely took nights off and barely played defense, especially in his last year here, but you're putting blame on the guy for not leading us to a Cup. How is it his fault Sather decided to sign Drury/Gomez? Yes, he signed Gomez for a guy to play with Jagr, but Sather was the who signed him, not Jagr.

What did you expect the guy to do when he was here? Scored 200 points and lead us to a Cup by himself? And this is coming from someone who couldn't stand Jagr in his last year here.

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12-23-2011, 12:43 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
If no Jagr/Straka/Nylander/Rozsival/Malik, the Rangers are a bottom 4 team in the NHL in 2005-06. Here are the top 5 picks in the 2006 draft:

1) Erik Johnson
2) Jordan Staal
3) Jonathan Toews
4) Niklas Backstrom
5) Phil Kessel

They could have easily been just as bad the next year and had a shot at drafting Patrick Kane.

Yeah, the team is very nice the way it is today, but did you enjoy 2007-08? How about 2008-09? 2009-10? All pretty ****** seasons, if you ask me. ****** hockey, ****** teams, no chances at tangible playoff success.
Again, this is absurd.

You're blaming Jagr for not allowing this team to rebuild properly. Im sorry, but this makes no sense.

Blame Sather then, not Jagr.

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12-23-2011, 12:43 PM
  #86
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I'll always have a soft spot for Jagr in my heart.

He was a great Ranger. I wish he would've stayed with us instead of wasting three years in the KHL. He sure would look good on our team this year.

I know it's silly but it annoys me that Jagr is so happy in Philly and that he's doing the salute celebration for every friggin goal it seems. He didn't salute once as a Ranger! Hehe.

However, I am rooting for him to absolutely fail this season. **** the Flyers. I hope they miss the playoffs, lol.

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12-23-2011, 12:47 PM
  #87
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I don't get this at all.

So you're blaming Jagr because he caused Sather to make signing mistakes and the fact we weren't a lottery team because of him?

How does this make any sense? I agree he routinely took nights off and barely played defense, especially in his last year here, but you're putting blame on the guy for not leading us to a Cup. How is it his fault Sather decided to sign Drury/Gomez? Yes, he signed Gomez for a guy to play with Jagr, but Sather was the who signed him, not Jagr.

What did you expect the guy to do when he was here? Scored 200 points and lead us to a Cup by himself? And this is coming from someone who couldn't stand Jagr in his last year here.
Jagr's presence and his reg. season success pretty much forced Sather to try to sign guys that could support Jagr.

The fact is that we are 3 years further into our developement curve and quite possibly a true contender if Sather would have started the process sooner.

No one is blaming Jagr for the mistake signings, they are blaming his presence for the reasoning behind such decisions.

Jagr not on the Rangers, we pick top 5 for at least 2-3 years. Imagine where we are today (5, 6 and 7 years later) if we were able to select some of those guys then?

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12-23-2011, 12:54 PM
  #88
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I'm not blaming Jagr for anything related to team-building, I just refuse to celebrate his presence here as some sort of great thing for the franchise. It was a horrible thing for the franchise. It was the complete opposite of what the team should have been doing. It's the same exact mentality that caused this team to need to rebuild in the first place, and it is the direct precursor to some of the worst roster moves in team history.

And call me crazy, but players who decide to play hard only when they decide they want to..yeah, not my favorite players. Why don't you ask Washington Capitals fans how they feel about Jagr and the way he played there? I guess they didn't pay him enough millions to deserve for him to play his best.

Dude brought out everything I loathe most about this team's fanbase, too, starting with the pathetic lack of patience and the propensity for mass delusion.

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12-23-2011, 12:54 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
Jagr's presence and his reg. season success pretty much forced Sather to try to sign guys that could support Jagr.

The fact is that we are 3 years further into our developement curve and quite possibly a true contender if Sather would have started the process sooner.

No one is blaming Jagr for the mistake signings, they are blaming his presence for the reasoning behind such decisions.

Jagr not on the Rangers, we pick top 5 for at least 2-3 years. Imagine where we are today (5, 6 and 7 years later) if we were able to select some of those guys then?
i've never heard this point before, not just with jagr but for any player. i've never heard fans wish they're star player didn't help get them into the playoffs for a better draft pick. especially since we drafted pretty well anyway. 05 :staal, sauer, 06: sanguinetti, anisimov, 07: chereponov, 08: del zotto and stepan. 1 of those guys didn't work out and one of them died. the draft argument doesn't make sense. the 03 draft is the one to ***** about.

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12-23-2011, 12:57 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
I'm not blaming Jagr for anything related to team-building, I just refuse to celebrate his presence here as some sort of great thing for the franchise. It was a horrible thing for the franchise. It was the complete opposite of what the team should have been doing. It's the same exact mentality that caused this team to need to rebuild in the first place, and it is the direct precursor to some of the worst roster moves in team history.

And call me crazy, but players who decide to play hard only when they decide they want to..yeah, not my favorite players. Why don't you ask Washington Capitals fans how they feel about Jagr and the way he played there? I guess they didn't pay him enough millions to deserve for him to play his best.

Dude brought out everything I loathe most about this team's fanbase, too, starting with the pathetic lack of patience and the propensity for mass delusion.
to say jagr's presence was horrible for the franchise is just dumb. so your telling me when he led us to the playoffs you were upset and didn't want to be there?

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12-23-2011, 01:00 PM
  #91
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Again, this is absurd.

You're blaming Jagr for not allowing this team to rebuild properly. Im sorry, but this makes no sense.

Blame Sather then, not Jagr.
When you have a talent like Jagr, a motivated Jagr, you try to win with that player other wise you get a Washington Capitals version.

Had we moved in another direction, the attempt to trade a moping Jagr would have been a waste. After the crap he pulled in Pitt, then in Washington. He finally got his wish to be in NY, if he pouted about the direction we went in there was no way we would have been able to trade him and that would not have been a good thing.

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12-23-2011, 01:06 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by chip chipperson View Post
to say jagr's presence was horrible for the franchise is just dumb. so your telling me when he led us to the playoffs you were upset and didn't want to be there?
That is what it sounds like. It sounds like people would have preferred missing the playoffs another 2 years...

I don't know about you guys, but after 7 years, I had enough non-playoff hockey.

We should blame Sather for not signing the worst 12 forwards and 6 defense man he could find to tank for a top-5 draft pick

I'm glad we signed Jagr and I'm glad we made the playoffs with him.

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12-23-2011, 01:07 PM
  #93
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i've never heard this point before, not just with jagr but for any player. i've never heard fans wish they're star player didn't help get them into the playoffs for a better draft pick. especially since we drafted pretty well anyway. 05 :staal, sauer, 06: sanguinetti, anisimov, 07: chereponov, 08: del zotto and stepan. 1 of those guys didn't work out and one of them died. the draft argument doesn't make sense. the 03 draft is the one to ***** about.
I seem to remember quite a few posts on this message board debating the virtues of tanking for high draft picks so that we could rebuild with top notch players.

The time flies fast, but those debates got pretty heated and I remember them quite well.

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12-23-2011, 01:10 PM
  #94
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I seem to remember quite a few posts on this message board debating the virtues of tanking for high draft picks so that we could rebuild with top notch players.

The time flies fast, but those debates got pretty heated and I remember them quite well.
Fans want their team to tank when they are mediocre and have no shot at making the making playoffs and are a 9th or 10th seed.

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12-23-2011, 01:13 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
Jagr's presence and his reg. season success pretty much forced Sather to try to sign guys that could support Jagr.

The fact is that we are 3 years further into our developement curve and quite possibly a true contender if Sather would have started the process sooner.

No one is blaming Jagr for the mistake signings, they are blaming his presence for the reasoning behind such decisions.

Jagr not on the Rangers, we pick top 5 for at least 2-3 years. Imagine where we are today (5, 6 and 7 years later) if we were able to select some of those guys then?
While I would agree with some of what you've posted, the fatal flaw in your argument is the following:

Whether it's coming from Dolan or Sather or both...this team has never and will never be without a star player, and will never ever go through a total rebuild. While this disappoints me and many Ranger fans, this the reality we are faced with.

So all the posts about if we didn't build around Jagr,we would have been had Top 5 picks 4 drafts in a row, is an LCD hallucination, because as we all know "Hockey's different here".

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12-23-2011, 01:14 PM
  #96
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to say jagr's presence was horrible for the franchise is just dumb. so your telling me when he led us to the playoffs you were upset and didn't want to be there?
It's always nice to discuss things with someone whose primary response to points that he doesn't agree with is to call them "dumb," especially when this is the same person that considered a team with a defense constituted of Rozsival, Malik, very young Tyutin, very young Girardi, Pock, Mara, and Karel Rachunek to be a Cup contender. Because that isn't "dumb."

As for how I felt during the playoffs in 2005-06? I was furious. Part of me was excited, sure, although mainly because I had been waiting for Lundqvist to show up for 3 years and he was even better than I had imagined. But, by and large I was furious. Finally, I thought the Rangers were going to do the right thing and rebuild. Then they get Jagr, and somehow my nightmares live on. The team was god awful. Zero talent in the prospect pool, no depth on the roster, and virtually no players who had an actual future with the team. The team sucked and was dragged into the playoffs by two players, clearly not having a chance to do anything once there.

I knew exactly what was going to happen. They'd go out and over pay a bunch of **** free agents just like they did before the lockout. Guess what? That's exactly what they did. I knew they weren't going to win anything because the team sucked overall. Guess what? They didn't win anything. I knew that thanks to that worthless ****ing 2005-06 season that got us nowhere, we'd have to wait another 5 years before we actually had a team with players who were going to be there for a while, a team worth giving a damn about. Lo and behold, here we are, 2011-12, and finally, we have an actual team.

16 out of 30 teams get into the playoffs. Making the playoffs doesn't mean anything, and it doesn't do you any good, unless you actually have what it takes to do something once you get there.

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12-23-2011, 01:14 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
I'm not blaming Jagr for anything related to team-building, I just refuse to celebrate his presence here as some sort of great thing for the franchise. It was a horrible thing for the franchise. It was the complete opposite of what the team should have been doing. It's the same exact mentality that caused this team to need to rebuild in the first place, and it is the direct precursor to some of the worst roster moves in team history.

And call me crazy, but players who decide to play hard only when they decide they want to..yeah, not my favorite players. Why don't you ask Washington Capitals fans how they feel about Jagr and the way he played there? I guess they didn't pay him enough millions to deserve for him to play his best.

Dude brought out everything I loathe most about this team's fanbase, too, starting with the pathetic lack of patience and the propensity for mass delusion.
You're essentially putting all the blame on Jagr, when it is really Sather making the calls.

Blaming "Jagr's presence" for not being able to rebuild properly is ridiculous. Did this team not make the playoffs with him? He was one of the main reasons why we got there. I've never heard fans blame a star player on their team for the fact the team wasn't bad enough to have a chance at a high pick. Makes no sense.

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12-23-2011, 01:18 PM
  #98
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Im not going to bash Jagr - he was fun to watch the majority of his time here.

But the reality of it is his time here was just a band-aid for the organization. Your argument that the team "changed" while he was here is simply untrue. In fact, it was just "more of the same" with the ridiculous Gomez/Drury/Redden signings. It just happened to be masked a bit by Jagr's supreme talent, which was on the decline by his final season.

I also cant understand the logic of compounding the problems with the aforementioned ridiculous signings by giving a +35 Jagr a multi-year deal worth $7M+, making the situation an even bigger problem.

A better argument can be made that the team really started to "change" when he left.
I didn't make an argument that the team changed while he was here. I'm simply stating that I'm not going to get all bent out of shape about him leaving & the circumstances around it, because at this point, it's over and done with and the team has changed and moved forward.

The comment about compounding mistakes by giving Jagr a multi year deal is a very one sided way of looking at things. From the Rangers POV, sure what you're saying makes plenty of sense. From Jagr's POV, things look different. He's the captain. He's the leading scorer. He's the skater that the team leans on. Why shouldn't his salary reflect this? If the Rangers decided to blow their cap load on Drury, Gomez & then Redden, that's their problem. When he saw he wasn't a priority, he moved on.

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12-23-2011, 01:18 PM
  #99
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Jagr's presence and his reg. season success pretty much forced Sather to try to sign guys that could support Jagr.

The fact is that we are 3 years further into our developement curve and quite possibly a true contender if Sather would have started the process sooner.

No one is blaming Jagr for the mistake signings, they are blaming his presence for the reasoning behind such decisions.

Jagr not on the Rangers, we pick top 5 for at least 2-3 years. Imagine where we are today (5, 6 and 7 years later) if we were able to select some of those guys then?
Yet for some reason, many of you are putting your hate towards him, when really it should be towards Sather.

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12-23-2011, 01:19 PM
  #100
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He may have never been as talented as the goal production he showed in his rookie campaign. Honestly though, you don't think a player can be damaged because of stunted growth in their beginning stages of professional hockey? What happened afterwards could be a direct result of it, it's all speculation, it's not an exact science. Though, that's not what I am talking about.
I think he was damaged by absorbing repeated, crushing hits, as well as the nasty knee-on-knee collision. He went from a dynamo in the dirty areas around the net to someone who was more content to be a perimeter player--a role in which he was not effective.

Could we have coaxed some more production out of him had we handed him a larger role and utilized him differently? Possibly. I still think the end result would have been the same for Prucha.

It's impossible to say for sure, but that's how I have always seen it.

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