HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Jacques Martin Fired V2.0

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-21-2011, 04:47 PM
  #151
HCH
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: The Wild West
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,691
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jigger77 View Post
JM had time to not accomplish anything and RC hasn't had time to not accomplish anything so RC is therefore the better coach. Got it.
You are the one drawing the conclusions.

I simply think that Cunneyworth's approach might be more successful and it is worth trying to see what he can do. We can make the judgments later.

HCH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-21-2011, 04:50 PM
  #152
SouthernHab
jak się masz
 
SouthernHab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 10,883
vCash: 500
With Carriere standing behind the bench, it is obvious that Cunneyworth is not getting a chance to completely take over this team.

What we are seeing is all Gauthier as GM and coach with Cunneyworth set up to take the blame for failure. And even if this team is successful, Molson has already stated that Cunneyworth is simply the interim guy.

Bless Cunneyworth for taking this on. But, I guess its just a job and he is still getting paid to do it, one way or another for the rest of the season.

SouthernHab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-21-2011, 04:51 PM
  #153
Jigger77
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,216
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HCH View Post
You are the one drawing the conclusions.

I simply think that Cunneyworth's approach might be more successful and it is worth trying to see what he can do. We can make the judgments later.
I agree with everything you say. I'm not drawing conclusions the other poster said he thinks RC is a better coach. I'm just wondering how he can possibly know this. Anyway, doesn't matter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
With Carriere standing behind the bench, it is obvious that Cunneyworth is not getting a chance to completely take over this team.

What we are seeing is all Gauthier as GM and coach with Cunneyworth set up to take the blame for failure. And even if this team is successful, Molson has already stated that Cunneyworth is simply the interim guy.

Bless Cunneyworth for taking this on. But, I guess its just a job and he is still getting paid to do it, one way or another for the rest of the season.
What does any of this have to do with Carrière?


Last edited by overlords: 12-21-2011 at 05:12 PM.
Jigger77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-21-2011, 05:30 PM
  #154
Agnostic
11 Stanley Cups
 
Agnostic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,291
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
With Carriere standing behind the bench, it is obvious that Cunneyworth is not getting a chance to completely take over this team.

What we are seeing is all Gauthier as GM and coach with Cunneyworth set up to take the blame for failure. And even if this team is successful, Molson has already stated that Cunneyworth is simply the interim guy.

Bless Cunneyworth for taking this on. But, I guess its just a job and he is still getting paid to do it, one way or another for the rest of the season.
Wondering if Carriere is the next GM, and getting a look-see at what he'll be needing to fix. I don't think it's thriftiness that has put him behind the bench.

Gauthier has to be waiting for the axe to fall, but it won't happen until Carriere has filed his report and go-forward plan with Molson.

Very unorthodox but the end justifies the means in this case.

Agnostic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-21-2011, 05:32 PM
  #155
SouthernHab
jak się masz
 
SouthernHab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 10,883
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jigger77 View Post
I agree with everything you say. I'm not drawing conclusions the other poster said he thinks RC is a better coach. I'm just wondering how he can possibly know this. Anyway, doesn't matter.



What does any of this have to do with Carrière?
Have you ever seen an NHL hockey team employ an assistant coach with zero coaching experience?

Neither have I. He is the Assistant GM put there by the GM for a reason. Coaching the team on the finer aspects of hockey obviously is not one of them.

SouthernHab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-21-2011, 06:47 PM
  #156
Poulet Kostopoulos
Registered User
 
Poulet Kostopoulos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,844
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jigger77 View Post
I agree with everything you say. I'm not drawing conclusions the other poster said he thinks RC is a better coach. I'm just wondering how he can possibly know this. Anyway, doesn't matter.
I got your point and your questions are valid. I have no clue why the others didn't get it.

RC hasn't proved a thing but he's better than JM. I too wonder how people can be so convinced about that.

Poulet Kostopoulos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-21-2011, 07:04 PM
  #157
PunkinDrublic*
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Sutton,Qc-Sudbury,On
Posts: 8,283
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poulet Kostopoulos View Post
I got your point and your questions are valid. I have no clue why the others didn't get it.

RC hasn't proved a thing but he's better than JM. I too wonder how people can be so convinced about that.
Because JM sucks ! How's that ?

PunkinDrublic* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-21-2011, 10:31 PM
  #158
Schooner Guy
Registered User
 
Schooner Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,661
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Have you ever seen an NHL hockey team employ an assistant coach with zero coaching experience?

Neither have I. He is the Assistant GM put there by the GM for a reason. Coaching the team on the finer aspects of hockey obviously is not one of them.
How long have you been following hockey? Do you not remember an NHL head coach in the mid-90's named Mario Tremblay? Don't think Shutt and Cournoyer (assistant coaches during Houle era) ever had any coaching experience either. Maybe I'm just showing my age but what about Rod Brind'Amour in Carolina? It's actually not as uncommon as you think. Komisarek was on our bench coaching after Lucic beat him silly.

Schooner Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-21-2011, 10:34 PM
  #159
Schooner Guy
Registered User
 
Schooner Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,661
vCash: 500
I miss the stability this team had under Jacques Martin. I miss the results that Jacques Martin produced with a sub-mediocre lineup. I hate the circus that Mr Molson has created. I feel so bad for Cunneyworth....good hockey guy in an impossible situation.

Schooner Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-21-2011, 10:38 PM
  #160
Poulet Kostopoulos
Registered User
 
Poulet Kostopoulos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,844
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schooner Guy View Post
I miss the stability this team had under Jacques Martin. I miss the results that Jacques Martin produced with a sub-mediocre lineup. I hate the circus that Mr Molson has created. I feel so bad for Cunneyworth....good hockey guy in an impossible situation.
RC probably knew what he was getting into... well, I hope so. Otherwise, yes, sad seeing him thrown to the wolves, so to speak.

Poulet Kostopoulos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-21-2011, 10:44 PM
  #161
Kriss E
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 24,654
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poulet Kostopoulos View Post
RC probably knew what he was getting into... well, I hope so. Otherwise, yes, sad seeing him thrown to the wolves, so to speak.
He didn't get into anything, he was placed into a situation.
Gauthier tells him he fired JM and he's now in charge of the team, you think Cunneyworth is going to say ''No thank you''?..
Doesn't have much of a choice.

Kriss E is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-23-2011, 12:49 PM
  #162
FiveForDrawingBlood
Registered User
 
FiveForDrawingBlood's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,477
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schooner Guy View Post
I miss the stability this team had under Jacques Martin. I miss the results that Jacques Martin produced with a sub-mediocre lineup. I hate the circus that Mr Molson has created. I feel so bad for Cunneyworth....good hockey guy in an impossible situation.
Posters on this board who were hollering for Martin's firing for last 2 months need to learn something about coaches and the NHL. I imagine they are starting to see it now? Martine had them a game over .500 despite 3 losses the direct results of terrible blown calls by refs. Plus without Markov not a game out of his best defenseman this year. He would have them 4-5th in conference by year's end. A scoring forward away from a Cup threat. Now....looks like a lenghty rebuilding process

FiveForDrawingBlood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-23-2011, 12:52 PM
  #163
habitue*
 
habitue*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,858
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HCH View Post
You are the one drawing the conclusions.

I simply think that Cunneyworth's approach might be more successful and it is worth trying to see what he can do. We can make the judgments later.
It could be more sucessful, but he needs the horses to play his style of game. And he doesn't have those players.

It's a spineless team, and it needs BIG changes.

habitue* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-23-2011, 12:53 PM
  #164
habitue*
 
habitue*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,858
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FiveForDrawingBlood View Post
Posters on this board who were hollering for Martin's firing for last 2 months need to learn something about coaches and the NHL. I imagine they are starting to see it now? Martine had them a game over .500 despite 3 losses the direct results of terrible blown calls by refs. Plus without Markov not a game out of his best defenseman this year. He would have them 4-5th in conference by year's end. A scoring forward away from a Cup threat. Now....looks like a lenghty rebuilding process
The timing for his firing was really bad.

Now Gauthier must be shown the door.

habitue* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-23-2011, 01:03 PM
  #165
Ollie Williams
Registered User
 
Ollie Williams's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,041
vCash: 200
Have we been playing much worse defensively without Martin? In the last 3 games we've allowed a total of 12 goals. I know people hated Martin for his "boring defense" but at least we were 1 goal shy of tying or taking the lead. We're not scoring more now than we were with Martin behind the bench either. We have scored 3 goals in the last 3 games in fact. Why was he fired again? Even if he was emotionless during games or conferences, what good did his firing do?

Ollie Williams is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-23-2011, 01:22 PM
  #166
habitue*
 
habitue*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,858
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ollie Williams View Post
Have we been playing much worse defensively without Martin? In the last 3 games we've allowed a total of 12 goals. I know people hated Martin for his "boring defense" but at least we were 1 goal shy of tying or taking the lead. We're not scoring more now than we were with Martin behind the bench either. We have scored 3 goals in the last 3 games in fact. Why was he fired again? Even if he was emotionless during games or conferences, what good did his firing do?
Usually, a firing like that should spark the team to play better and with emotion.

Results ?

habitue* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-23-2011, 01:23 PM
  #167
Miller Time
Registered User
 
Miller Time's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 8,293
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schooner Guy View Post
I miss the stability this team had under Jacques Martin. I miss the results that Jacques Martin produced with a sub-mediocre lineup. I hate the circus that Mr Molson has created. I feel so bad for Cunneyworth....good hockey guy in an impossible situation.
I was/am not unhappy that Martin was removed... For his obvious qualities as a HC, I think he's shown that he's missing a level of adaptability to both connect with the younger generation of athletes & that his in-game ability to adjust was severely lacking.

in many ways, i think he's far better suited to be an assistant coach than a head coach...


that said, his ability with getting his team to play "close enough to win" certainly allowed our less than stellar lineup to perform at/above the level many other coaches would be able to get out of such a poorly assembled roster (even when healthy).


I had no problem seeing the habs give RC a shot, but the way they've done it is absurd.

the guy has basically no weight/influence over the locker room. You take an inexperienced head coach, throw him into a team stuck in a deepeining downward spiral full of underperforming vets, you slap him with an interim label, and then cut his legs even further by having the owner come out and assure the angry & vocal section of the fan base that the "next coach" will be billingual (in others words confirming that he has no shot at being the permanent HC).

total bush league...

Martin's firing needed to be preceeded by Gauthier's firing, and if anything, Martin is the one who should have been left to finish the season, b/c at least with him the athletes knew what they were getting and a new GM would make it clear that everybody was under the magnifiying glass, not just the new eunuch of a head coach.


instead, we get the perfect recipe for destroying the team much deeper than one missed playoff year...

if Subban, Price, MaxPac, Gorges take the circus that is this season & the negative media pressure that goes with it, to heart, how likely do you think it is that they negotiate their next contracts favorably?

instead, you'll get guys pinning to leave town, and even though we control the RFA's to a degree, as teh Turris situation showed, when you alienate your young talent, you pretty much ensure that moving them is the only option... Yotes did well in the return they got, but in our situation, Subban/Price/MaxPac are the highlights of what we can potentially build with, replacing them with similarly talented young players will be difficult, if not impossible with the incompetent management team we currently have in place.

Miller Time is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-23-2011, 01:29 PM
  #168
danisonfire
2313 Saint Catherine
 
danisonfire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,139
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ollie Williams View Post
Have we been playing much worse defensively without Martin? In the last 3 games we've allowed a total of 12 goals. I know people hated Martin for his "boring defense" but at least we were 1 goal shy of tying or taking the lead. We're not scoring more now than we were with Martin behind the bench either. We have scored 3 goals in the last 3 games in fact. Why was he fired again? Even if he was emotionless during games or conferences, what good did his firing do?
Made the tanking process easier because JM was essentially turning our 15th place team into a 8th place playoff team! Only thing I can think of, they might be smart after all.

danisonfire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-23-2011, 01:31 PM
  #169
habitue*
 
habitue*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,858
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
I was/am not unhappy that Martin was removed... For his obvious qualities as a HC, I think he's shown that he's missing a level of adaptability to both connect with the younger generation of athletes & that his in-game ability to adjust was severely lacking.

in many ways, i think he's far better suited to be an assistant coach than a head coach...


that said, his ability with getting his team to play "close enough to win" certainly allowed our less than stellar lineup to perform at/above the level many other coaches would be able to get out of such a poorly assembled roster (even when healthy).


I had no problem seeing the habs give RC a shot, but the way they've done it is absurd.

the guy has basically no weight/influence over the locker room. You take an inexperienced head coach, throw him into a team stuck in a deepeining downward spiral full of underperforming vets, you slap him with an interim label, and then cut his legs even further by having the owner come out and assure the angry & vocal section of the fan base that the "next coach" will be billingual (in others words confirming that he has no shot at being the permanent HC).

total bush league...

Martin's firing needed to be preceeded by Gauthier's firing, and if anything, Martin is the one who should have been left to finish the season, b/c at least with him the athletes knew what they were getting and a new GM would make it clear that everybody was under the magnifiying glass, not just the new eunuch of a head coach.


instead, we get the perfect recipe for destroying the team much deeper than one missed playoff year...

if Subban, Price, MaxPac, Gorges take the circus that is this season & the negative media pressure that goes with it, to heart, how likely do you think it is that they negotiate their next contracts favorably?

instead, you'll get guys pinning to leave town, and even though we control the RFA's to a degree, as teh Turris situation showed, when you alienate your young talent, you pretty much ensure that moving them is the only option... Yotes did well in the return they got, but in our situation, Subban/Price/MaxPac are the highlights of what we can potentially build with, replacing them with similarly talented young players will be difficult, if not impossible with the incompetent management team we currently have in place.
Lots of excellent points in your post.

A MUST READ !

habitue* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-23-2011, 03:53 PM
  #170
Ollie Williams
Registered User
 
Ollie Williams's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,041
vCash: 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
I was/am not unhappy that Martin was removed... For his obvious qualities as a HC, I think he's shown that he's missing a level of adaptability to both connect with the younger generation of athletes & that his in-game ability to adjust was severely lacking.

in many ways, i think he's far better suited to be an assistant coach than a head coach...


that said, his ability with getting his team to play "close enough to win" certainly allowed our less than stellar lineup to perform at/above the level many other coaches would be able to get out of such a poorly assembled roster (even when healthy).


I had no problem seeing the habs give RC a shot, but the way they've done it is absurd.

the guy has basically no weight/influence over the locker room. You take an inexperienced head coach, throw him into a team stuck in a deepeining downward spiral full of underperforming vets, you slap him with an interim label, and then cut his legs even further by having the owner come out and assure the angry & vocal section of the fan base that the "next coach" will be billingual (in others words confirming that he has no shot at being the permanent HC).

total bush league...

Martin's firing needed to be preceeded by Gauthier's firing, and if anything, Martin is the one who should have been left to finish the season, b/c at least with him the athletes knew what they were getting and a new GM would make it clear that everybody was under the magnifiying glass, not just the new eunuch of a head coach.


instead, we get the perfect recipe for destroying the team much deeper than one missed playoff year...

if Subban, Price, MaxPac, Gorges take the circus that is this season & the negative media pressure that goes with it, to heart, how likely do you think it is that they negotiate their next contracts favorably?

instead, you'll get guys pinning to leave town, and even though we control the RFA's to a degree, as teh Turris situation showed, when you alienate your young talent, you pretty much ensure that moving them is the only option... Yotes did well in the return they got, but in our situation, Subban/Price/MaxPac are the highlights of what we can potentially build with, replacing them with similarly talented young players will be difficult, if not impossible with the incompetent management team we currently have in place.
Well said. I've stated before that I wasn't against replacing Martin, but if we were to replace him, at least have the pieces in place for the new coach to work with (something that Martin did not have but was managing with nonetheless). A new coach even at the end of this season won't be changing much (regardless of the fact that he would knowingly walk into a position of assured failure) unless we can quickly place a group of players on the ice he can work with to be successful. I have a feeling this is what will happen, a "Bob Gainey experiment version 2.0" in the coming off-season.

Ollie Williams is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-23-2011, 07:55 PM
  #171
Habsterix*
@Habsterix
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,475
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
I was/am not unhappy that Martin was removed... For his obvious qualities as a HC, I think he's shown that he's missing a level of adaptability to both connect with the younger generation of athletes & that his in-game ability to adjust was severely lacking.

in many ways, i think he's far better suited to be an assistant coach than a head coach...


that said, his ability with getting his team to play "close enough to win" certainly allowed our less than stellar lineup to perform at/above the level many other coaches would be able to get out of such a poorly assembled roster (even when healthy).


I had no problem seeing the habs give RC a shot, but the way they've done it is absurd.

the guy has basically no weight/influence over the locker room. You take an inexperienced head coach, throw him into a team stuck in a deepeining downward spiral full of underperforming vets, you slap him with an interim label, and then cut his legs even further by having the owner come out and assure the angry & vocal section of the fan base that the "next coach" will be billingual (in others words confirming that he has no shot at being the permanent HC).

total bush league...

Martin's firing needed to be preceeded by Gauthier's firing, and if anything, Martin is the one who should have been left to finish the season, b/c at least with him the athletes knew what they were getting and a new GM would make it clear that everybody was under the magnifiying glass, not just the new eunuch of a head coach.


instead, we get the perfect recipe for destroying the team much deeper than one missed playoff year...

if Subban, Price, MaxPac, Gorges take the circus that is this season & the negative media pressure that goes with it, to heart, how likely do you think it is that they negotiate their next contracts favorably?

instead, you'll get guys pinning to leave town, and even though we control the RFA's to a degree, as teh Turris situation showed, when you alienate your young talent, you pretty much ensure that moving them is the only option... Yotes did well in the return they got, but in our situation, Subban/Price/MaxPac are the highlights of what we can potentially build with, replacing them with similarly talented young players will be difficult, if not impossible with the incompetent management team we currently have in place.
This. I'd also add that the timing of the firing was pretty convenient for the Martin lovers to come out of the closet, with the teams the Habs had to face. But it will all even out when it's all said and done. I'm pleased with the firing and will never think otherwise. As a matter of fact, it was done too late.

Habsterix* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-23-2011, 09:17 PM
  #172
Poulet Kostopoulos
Registered User
 
Poulet Kostopoulos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,844
vCash: 500
People were barking at the wrong tree in blaming JM. Fact of the matter is this team has been missing throughout the season: Gomez, Gionta, Hamrlik (who we haven't replaced), to a lesser extent, Spacek, and a PP quarterback (Markov or a patch). We then got a patch for the PP quarterback position in Kaberle but then we fired the coach. What a monumental bonehead move.

This move will have farther reaching consequences than simply a coaching change, as Miller Time has suggested.

Poulet Kostopoulos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-23-2011, 11:33 PM
  #173
Habsterix*
@Habsterix
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,475
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poulet Kostopoulos View Post
People were barking at the wrong tree in blaming JM.
Most people were after Martin for his smothering system and his doubtful decisions. Not sure how this qualifies as "barking at the wrong tree"...

Habsterix* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-23-2011, 11:41 PM
  #174
THE HOFF
Registered User
 
THE HOFF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,181
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
Most people were after Martin for his smothering system and his doubtful decisions. Not sure how this qualifies as "barking at the wrong tree"...
Listen, We all know you were a martin hater ...

perhaps you can tell me what kind of system we are now playing... or what kind of system we were playing prior to jacques ... ?

Under him we had a well organized team ... if anything, his system gave us a chance to win every night.


Last edited by THE HOFF: 12-24-2011 at 10:00 AM.
THE HOFF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-24-2011, 03:20 AM
  #175
LeBlondeDemon10
BlindLemon Haystacks
 
LeBlondeDemon10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,064
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ollie Williams View Post
Have we been playing much worse defensively without Martin? In the last 3 games we've allowed a total of 12 goals. I know people hated Martin for his "boring defense" but at least we were 1 goal shy of tying or taking the lead. We're not scoring more now than we were with Martin behind the bench either. We have scored 3 goals in the last 3 games in fact. Why was he fired again? Even if he was emotionless during games or conferences, what good did his firing do?
Exactly. From one goal losses to 3 and 4 goal losses. Firing the coach was not the answer. Trading for a scorer was/is the answer.

LeBlondeDemon10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:34 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.