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Old
12-11-2005, 11:32 AM
  #26
8snake
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Higgy, as a Wings fan I certainly hope Hudler can become not only a good NHL'er but a big contributer for Detroit for several years. So it's not like I'm rooting AGAINST his success. Second, if you dont think the players I mentioned...Sullivan, Walker, Gionta (guys 5'8 or under) arent terrific skaters I cant imagine who you are watching. All 3 of those guys along with St.Louis, Samsonov, Kapanen are some of the fastest players in the league regardless of size. On the ice Hudler's work ethic seems fine for the most part, it's his limited physical abilities that I feel hinder his ultimate success...not his heart. Hackett, Riberio is a better skater than Hudler. He plays a slower game, but as far as skating Hudler isnt as good. I'll say it again, if you are 5'8 or under in the NHL you HAVE to be a great skater.

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12-11-2005, 12:23 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8snake
He plays a slower game, but as far as skating Hudler isnt as good.
Alot of people don't seem to notice or realize that. I've gotten to see Hudler play every game here in GR the last few years..and skating is by far his weakest asset. He's slow, and a very choppy skater..along with his size, it could hold him back.

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12-11-2005, 01:06 PM
  #28
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his feet look like a toddler's!!

im sure that doesnt help his stride

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Old
12-11-2005, 04:24 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winger98
Howard was sent down to GR, also. It's just the wings saving as much money as possible by sending them to GR as often as possible.
They got in their cars and drove back to Detroit immediately after the game too.

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Old
12-11-2005, 07:21 PM
  #30
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I am not here to say that Hudler will or wont be a quality NHL hockey player. I am simply saying its too early to tell. We seem to have some scouts in here who are already saying what kind of player he will end up being.

Fact is...its just too early. And the Wings will never find out what type of player he is if they dont play him a little more.

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Old
12-11-2005, 07:27 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8snake
Higgy, as a Wings fan I certainly hope Hudler can become not only a good NHL'er but a big contributer for Detroit for several years. So it's not like I'm rooting AGAINST his success. Second, if you dont think the players I mentioned...Sullivan, Walker, Gionta (guys 5'8 or under) arent terrific skaters I cant imagine who you are watching. All 3 of those guys along with St.Louis, Samsonov, Kapanen are some of the fastest players in the league regardless of size. On the ice Hudler's work ethic seems fine for the most part, it's his limited physical abilities that I feel hinder his ultimate success...not his heart. Hackett, Riberio is a better skater than Hudler. He plays a slower game, but as far as skating Hudler isnt as good. I'll say it again, if you are 5'8 or under in the NHL you HAVE to be a great skater.
I never said those guys weren't great skaters. Although I cant figure out why you keep saying Scott Walker? First of all he is about 5'10 / 200 lbs, and he isnt all that swift of a skater. So he is niether small nor overly fast. Not sure where he fits into your argument. The fact of the matter is that to even get to this level of professional hockey, you HAVE to be a great skater already. Everybody in the NHL can skate. Well...maybe not Jason Allison...but you get my point.

If his skating is just average, then there is always the chance he can keep progressing as an NHL player. He isnt a fantastic skater at all. But he isnt any worse a skater than Tomas Holmstrom or Henrik Zetterberg and both of those guys have done fairly well and neither is what you would call a big guy.

Its rediculous that you have already tagged him as a "fringe NHL player" simply because YOU think his skating needs work. For player you named that is fast, there are many not so fast guys that have made careers in the NHL. Go ask Igor Larionov how much speed he needed to play in the NHL. Speed is an asset that is great to have, but it isnt a hinderance if you can excel in other areas. And its still VERY possible that Hudler can keep improving and become a decent NHL hockey player.

Just dont write him off so fast. Thats all I am saying.

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Old
12-11-2005, 09:06 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8snake
I've played and watched enough hockey to have a feel for a guys ability, and likelihood of success regardless of ice time. Hudler is 5'8...and watching him play in G-raps even that may be a tad generous. Given his size, name for me another smallish player in the NHL that is an average to below average skater. I'm not talking about a star like St. Louis, ANY player 5'8 and under. Go ahead. Gionta, Walker, Sullivan....there is NO player in the league Hudler's size that isnt an exceptional skater. Commom knowledge in the NHL is if you are small, you better be able to skate. There is nothing else in Hudler's game that can compensate for his poor skating. He's a very creative, crafty kid with slick moves and a decent touch....but those positives in his game dont make up for his lack of size and speed. Either Hudler works like hell on his skating or he wont be in the league, simple as that.
Those are PRECISELY the reasons I have never been high on the kid. This may be an unpopular opinion, but if we can get a top 4 d-man in return right now I would be more than willing to part with Hudler.

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Old
12-11-2005, 09:08 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Higgy4
I never said those guys weren't great skaters. Although I cant figure out why you keep saying Scott Walker? First of all he is about 5'10 / 200 lbs, and he isnt all that swift of a skater. So he is niether small nor overly fast. Not sure where he fits into your argument. The fact of the matter is that to even get to this level of professional hockey, you HAVE to be a great skater already. Everybody in the NHL can skate. Well...maybe not Jason Allison...but you get my point.

If his skating is just average, then there is always the chance he can keep progressing as an NHL player. He isnt a fantastic skater at all. But he isnt any worse a skater than Tomas Holmstrom or Henrik Zetterberg and both of those guys have done fairly well and neither is what you would call a big guy.

Its rediculous that you have already tagged him as a "fringe NHL player" simply because YOU think his skating needs work. For player you named that is fast, there are many not so fast guys that have made careers in the NHL. Go ask Igor Larionov how much speed he needed to play in the NHL. Speed is an asset that is great to have, but it isnt a hinderance if you can excel in other areas. And its still VERY possible that Hudler can keep improving and become a decent NHL hockey player.

Just dont write him off so fast. Thats all I am saying.
I've kinda written him off for 2 years now, and my opinion has not changed.

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Old
12-11-2005, 09:18 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruiser008
I've kinda written him off for 2 years now, and my opinion has not changed.
He's still two years younger than Datsyuk was before Pavel ever crossed the Atlantic. Datsyuk was small, frail, and slow when he crossed over and has slowly filled himself out and gotten faster in the last couple years. He's also learned how to use his elusiveness (actually he's still working on that) to become more effective against NHL defenders.

Hudler has also achieved FAR more at his point in hockey development than Pavel did prior to coming into training camp. He has the vision and the skills he just needs to adapt to the speed of the game. I wouldn't write him off yet.

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Old
12-11-2005, 10:14 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by norrisnick
He's still two years younger than Datsyuk was before Pavel ever crossed the Atlantic. Datsyuk was small, frail, and slow when he crossed over and has slowly filled himself out and gotten faster in the last couple years. He's also learned how to use his elusiveness (actually he's still working on that) to become more effective against NHL defenders.

Hudler has also achieved FAR more at his point in hockey development than Pavel did prior to coming into training camp. He has the vision and the skills he just needs to adapt to the speed of the game. I wouldn't write him off yet.
Valid pts. However I just don't see the top-6 forward upside unless Hudler improves his skating by leaps and bounds (Datsyuk and Zetterberg during their rookie years were both better skaters than Hudler is right now). It's not like I've given up on the kid since I was never high on him to begin with. But to each his own.

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Old
12-11-2005, 10:23 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruiser008
Those are PRECISELY the reasons I have never been high on the kid. This may be an unpopular opinion, but if we can get a top 4 d-man in return right now I would be more than willing to part with Hudler.
So...let me see if I follow you.

You think this kid will never be a good NHL player. You wrote him off completely years ago.

But, you think he is good enough that the Wings might get a Top 4 dman in return???

If he is good enough to get a Top 4 dman, then I think he will make it in this league.

Which is it?

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Old
12-11-2005, 10:25 PM
  #37
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From HF:

Talent Analysis

Hudler is a dazzling puckhandler who has a phenomenal offensive arsenal. He is a good skater with great foot speed which he uses to avoid opponents in the corners effectively. His good hockey sense, on-ice vision and playmaking ability make him an offensive threat on every shift. He has good scoring instincts and a quick accurate shot that he is willing to use in all situations. He is a great leader and hard worker which he showed at the U-18 WJC where he was capitan. The downside is that he sometimes tends to shy away from physical contact and is a bit of a liability defensively.


Yeah...we should just forget about this 22 year old kid. Lets see if we can get a 5th rounder for him now before he completely falls off the radar.

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Old
12-12-2005, 12:31 AM
  #38
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I wish Detroid traded him a long time ago, this organisation is just wasting his talent.

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Old
12-12-2005, 12:54 AM
  #39
Cruiser008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Higgy4
So...let me see if I follow you.

You think this kid will never be a good NHL player. You wrote him off completely years ago.

But, you think he is good enough that the Wings might get a Top 4 dman in return???

If he is good enough to get a Top 4 dman, then I think he will make it in this league.

Which is it?
1) Information asymmetry (i.e. we know more about our prospects then our suitors)
2) Salary cap dump.

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Old
12-12-2005, 06:39 AM
  #40
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First of all, obviously HF hasnt done their homework or watched Hudler play because it is CLEAR by all accounts including those in the Wings organization that Hudler is a poor skater. Second, every body in the NHL CANNOT skate. My goodness, there are 3 examples on the Wings team alone....I dont know how you conclude that you must be a good skater to play at that level. Third, Zetterberg and Homer, for as average to poor skaters at they are have other qualities that minimize that aspect of their game. And I've always maintained that Zetterberg's skating holds his overall game back. Finally, though Larionov slowed down considerably his last few years in Detroit, throughout his career and in his first few seasons with the Wings Larionov was an excellent skater. To the point about comparing Datsyuk and Hudler and their development. I will bet any amount of money Hudler at this stage would not have played a minute under Bowman, yet Pavel centered Hull. Brett and others including Yzerman talked about how impressive Pavel was...Hull correctly called him a future star. Hudler hasnt recieved that type of praise.

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12-12-2005, 07:02 AM
  #41
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I think a lot of people base his speed on the slow time he had at the AHL all star game last year or the year before. Granted, he doesn't look that fast out there, but I haven't seen any opportunity for him to really hump it out there - I haven't seen him in an end-to-ender yet, etc. And before that all star game thing, everyone who had scouted him said he had good speed. So let's just give him a bit to see what kind of speed he's really got. He strikes me as the type that would have good acceleration but poor top speed. We haven't seen it yet though.

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Old
12-12-2005, 07:37 AM
  #42
Higgy4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8snake
First of all, obviously HF hasnt done their homework or watched Hudler play because it is CLEAR by all accounts including those in the Wings organization that Hudler is a poor skater. Second, every body in the NHL CANNOT skate. My goodness, there are 3 examples on the Wings team alone....I dont know how you conclude that you must be a good skater to play at that level. Third, Zetterberg and Homer, for as average to poor skaters at they are have other qualities that minimize that aspect of their game. And I've always maintained that Zetterberg's skating holds his overall game back. Finally, though Larionov slowed down considerably his last few years in Detroit, throughout his career and in his first few seasons with the Wings Larionov was an excellent skater. To the point about comparing Datsyuk and Hudler and their development. I will bet any amount of money Hudler at this stage would not have played a minute under Bowman, yet Pavel centered Hull. Brett and others including Yzerman talked about how impressive Pavel was...Hull correctly called him a future star. Hudler hasnt recieved that type of praise.
Again...you should submit your resume to all 30 NHL teams. Apparently you feel you have the abilility to see things that others cannont. Now you are claiming that the people at HF have no clue? Do you ever try to see both sides of anything? Or just your side?

You say that Holmstrom and Zetts have other skills that help counteract thier lack of skating? Ok...I totally agree. But why cant Hudler do the same type of thing?

Just forget it. We will just have to agree to disagree. Its tough to argue with a future NHL scout anyway. Apparaently I am way out of my league here.

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Old
12-12-2005, 07:46 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sarcastro
I think a lot of people base his speed on the slow time he had at the AHL all star game last year or the year before. Granted, he doesn't look that fast out there, but I haven't seen any opportunity for him to really hump it out there - I haven't seen him in an end-to-ender yet, etc. And before that all star game thing, everyone who had scouted him said he had good speed. So let's just give him a bit to see what kind of speed he's really got. He strikes me as the type that would have good acceleration but poor top speed. We haven't seen it yet though.
Sounds logical to me. Hudler isnt the best skater in the world. But he can obviously skate well enough for the people at HF (people who work year round to scout young players...this is their JOB) to say he has is an excellent skater with good foot speed. Maybe they arent exactly right. But I am sure they didnt completely miss with that assumption, either. Hudler isnt a slug out there. He is an average skater with other above average skills. And...he wont turn 22 until next month.

Give....him....time.

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