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Old
12-22-2011, 10:41 AM
  #251
AtlantaWhaler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathradio View Post


Alexander Radulov



Andrei Kostitsyn
Ohhhh no....no. Even if AK was signed, nevermind the fact that he's an UFA in a few months.

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Old
12-22-2011, 10:50 AM
  #252
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Originally Posted by token grinder View Post
radulov. but if you are talking time spent in the A and became nhlers-erat, hartnell, hornquist.
So recent is Hornk. Four years ago??? That is the problem. Huge problem. Our forward pool is just weak. Or maybe Ads is the problem. Maybe they just kill all the scorers over there.

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12-22-2011, 10:52 AM
  #253
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I want the guys who is been here a lot longer then me name at least one forward who was called up from Ads and start contributing points regularly???
over the course of our history, Hartnell, Erat, Radulov, Hornqvist, Wilson all come to mind.

other ex Ads who went on to be legit NHL players but arent really scorers include Fiddler, Smithson, Tootoo, and now Spaling

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12-22-2011, 12:10 PM
  #254
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Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
over the course of our history, Hartnell, Erat, Radulov, Hornqvist, Wilson all come to mind.

other ex Ads who went on to be legit NHL players but arent really scorers include Fiddler, Smithson, Tootoo, and now Spaling
upshall and hall fit into this mold as well.

I think our main problem is we haven't sucked bad enough to get a top 3 pick in the draft and get the young stars, and when we draft, we usually know what we are getting in terms of the kind of player we draft-hard nosed, hard working kids. We don't take many chances on divas or basket cases. It is rare to find that kid with sick mitts and a goal scorers touch that is also willing to work harder than anyone else in the mid to late rounds. With scouting getting so much better, the datsyuks and zetterburgs are going to get rarer and rarer.

I don't know the answer to this, but who was the last player drafted in the 4th round or later to pot 40 goals? or even 30?

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12-22-2011, 12:43 PM
  #255
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Originally Posted by token grinder View Post
I don't know the answer to this, but who was the last player drafted in the 4th round or later to pot 40 goals? or even 30?
Probably Datsyuk or Zetterburg.

We have a couple of guys in Milwaukee with some offensive talent like Puustinen and Latta. We'll see if Budish can overcome his injuries and develop into a pro power forward. Cehlin is still in Europe. Shalla isn't doing bad in the OHL.

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Old
12-22-2011, 01:02 PM
  #256
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He hasn't scored 30 yet but Jamie Benn was drafted in the 5th round and is a solid 20-25 goal scorer.

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Old
12-22-2011, 01:09 PM
  #257
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Quote:
Originally Posted by token grinder View Post
I don't know the answer to this, but who was the last player drafted in the 4th round or later to pot 40 goals? or even 30?
The most recent player to do it was Matt Moulson, last year. He was the only one.

I also went ahead and put together a full list of players that have done it since the lockout. Note that seasons are indicated based on the highest level the player reached, so a 40 goal season is implied as a 30 goal season, but counted separately from 30 goal seasons, if that makes sense.

Fourth round or later:
Matt Moulson (twice)
Patric Hornqvist
Jussi Jokinen
Mikael Samuelsson
Pavel Datsyuk (twice)
Henrik Zetterberg (four times)
Milan Hejduk (once; 30 twice, 40 once, and 50 once before lockout)
Michael Ryder (twice)
Tomas Holmstrom
Miroslav Satan (once; 40 once before lockout, 30 twice)
Mike Knuble (once; once before lockout)
Anson Carter
Jere Lehtinen (once; once before lockout)
Marek Svatos
Steve Sullivan (once; once before lockout)
Petr Prucha

Undrafted players:
Dustin Penner
Martin St. Louis (30 three times, 40 once)
Jason Blake (40 once)
Andy McDonald

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12-22-2011, 01:27 PM
  #258
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I hate the Ning, but St. Louis is so awesome.

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Old
12-22-2011, 01:42 PM
  #259
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Benn is a hell of a young player. Moulson looked good a few weeks ago when he lit up the Stars with four goals at the AAC. Those guys are rare finds late in the draft ... we've lucked out with Erat and Hornqvist so far along with some of those late round goalie picks.

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12-22-2011, 02:13 PM
  #260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by token grinder View Post
upshall and hall fit into this mold as well.

I think our main problem is we haven't sucked bad enough to get a top 3 pick in the draft and get the young stars, and when we draft, we usually know what we are getting in terms of the kind of player we draft-hard nosed, hard working kids. We don't take many chances on divas or basket cases. It is rare to find that kid with sick mitts and a goal scorers touch that is also willing to work harder than anyone else in the mid to late rounds. With scouting getting so much better, the datsyuks and zetterburgs are going to get rarer and rarer.

I don't know the answer to this, but who was the last player drafted in the 4th round or later to pot 40 goals? or even 30?
actually Halll basically come right from Michigan State (he got 6 games with the Ads right after his senior year ended but then made the preds the next fall)

but your main point is exactly correct. we have never drafted higher than 6th after our first season and only have drafted in the top 10 once since 2003 and that was via trade. When you draft that low, you either choose a safer player that you know what you are getting or you take a gamble and hit or miss.. It just sucks that the one player who is an elite scorer that we did draft lower in the first has cephalo-rectal translocation and ran home to Russia...

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12-22-2011, 02:16 PM
  #261
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But is not like we don't pick in first or second round at all.
We do. Where are those guys???

Since 2001 we have only 3 forwards picked in first 3 rounds who developed into somewhat decent. Wilson, Radulov, Upshall.

Is it enough???

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12-22-2011, 02:36 PM
  #262
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Originally Posted by tserberis View Post
But is not like we don't pick in first or second round at all.
We do. Where are those guys???

Since 2001 we have only 3 forwards picked in first 3 rounds who developed into somewhat decent. Wilson, Radulov, Upshall.

Is it enough???
Less than 50% of the 2nd rounders from '09 have played a single game in the NHL ... Ryan O'Reilly and Clifford are the only two with double digit career points to date. The '08 draft class has three 2nd rounders with double digit points, and one is a defender. '07 ... seven players with career double digit points from the 2nd round.

Meanwhile, we have the last pick of the 2005 draft with two full seasons, both over 20 goals.

It's the great myth of what the performance of a typical draft pick really is. We all complain about Legwand when he's the median for a second forward taken over the past two decades. We moan that we don't have a 35 goal scorer when that's a top 15 scorer in the league most seasons. On average, there are four 20+ goal scorers per team per season ... 120 for the league. Of those 120, about 20-30 reach the 30 goal plateau.

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Old
12-22-2011, 03:10 PM
  #263
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Look at the Pens ... you have to go back to the '04 draft to find a forward taken outside of the top five overall with 50 or more games played (T. Kennedy) ... ten games total from all of their draft choices combined since 2008.

The Hawks ... 06 draft class only one player has played in the NHL, 07 draft class has two ... Sweatt with two whole games.

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Old
12-22-2011, 04:28 PM
  #264
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Quote:
Originally Posted by token grinder View Post
I don't know the answer to this, but who was the last player drafted in the 4th round or later to pot 40 goals? or even 30?
Martin St Louis was undrafted and scored 31 last season if that counts. Matt Moulson was drafted in the 9th round in 2003 and scored 31 last season. Gionta was a third rounder and had 29, so I guess he just missed both qualifiers.

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12-23-2011, 12:36 PM
  #265
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Martin St Louis was undrafted and scored 31 last season if that counts. Matt Moulson was drafted in the 9th round in 2003 and scored 31 last season. Gionta was a third rounder and had 29, so I guess he just missed both qualifiers.
all these posts re kinda making my point for me. those late gems are few and far between if moulson and gasp! hornquist are the last two late round gems. these guys are harder to find as scouting gets better.

I think in future years, the majority of late round gems will be russians, not becasue of talent, but because of the khl. it will cause them to drop.

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12-23-2011, 03:52 PM
  #266
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Here are the picks the Preds have to move for a trade.

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Old
12-23-2011, 04:15 PM
  #267
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Like Worst, Token grinder’s question about 30/40 goal scorers drafted in the 4th round or later sent me looking in the data archives. I was looking at it by draft year starting in 2000. No player drafted in the 4th round or later starting with the 2000 draft has scored more than 40 goals in a season, yet. 5 players have scored 30 goals or more in a season – Marek Svatos (2001 7th round), Jussi Jokinen (2001 6th round), Petr Prucha (2002 8th round), Matt Moulson (2003 9th round), and Patric Hörnqvist (2005 7th round). Matt Moulson is the only one to have scored 30 goals twice. Svatos’ 32 goals is the most scored in a single season.

I also looked at how many players had reached the 20 goal plateau. In addition to the five 30 goal scorers, 19 others have reached the 20 goal plateau. So, only 24 players drafted in the 4th round or lower from 2000 onward have had 20 goal seasons. The 24 includes Sergei Kostitsyn (2005 7th round) with the Preds last year and Mike Santorelli (2004 6th round) with the Panthers last year. Note the 24 also includes Matthew Lombardi who was originally drafted in the 7th round in 2000, but was drafted again in the 3rd round in 2002.

Of the 24, two have scored more than 20 goals in a season three times – Brooks Laich (2001 6th round) and Joe Pavelski (2003 7th round). Eight others have scored more than 20 goals 2 times – Marek Svatos (2001 7th round), Ryane Clowe (2001 6th round), Petr Prucha (2002 8th round), Matt Moulson (2003 9th round), Grabovski (2004 5th round), Kris Versteg (2004 5th round), Patric Hörnqvist (2005 7th round) and Jaime Benn (2007 5th round). So, only 10 players drafted in the 4th round or lower beginning with the 2000 draft have had multiple 20 goal NHL seasons.

Of course, the more recently drafted players are still in the development stages, but Token grinder’s point is well taken. I should note that since I was looking at draft data – any undrafted scorers are not included. A couple of more tidbits – so far only 4 players drafted in 2005 or later have cracked the 20 goal mark – with Matt D’Agostini (2005 6th round) joining Benn, S. Kostitsyn and Hörnqvist. So far, 2004 leads the way with late round 20 goal scorers with 6. 2002 on the other hand has produced one (Prucha). 2000 has produced 2 if you consider Lombardi a 7th rounder in 2000 instead of a 3rd rounder in 2002. Otherwise 2000, also, has produced only 1 Antti Miettinen (2000, 7th round). And finally, surprisingly to me, only 2 of the 24 were actually drafted in the 4th round. The other 22 were drafted in the 5th round or later (eight 7th rounders lead the way).

My apologies to those who don’t like numbers (though I doubt you made it to the apology!). Looking at the thread topic – just realized my post might be off-topic. So, FWIW, and in case you didn’t hear it, in an interview last week (Coffee with Coach 102.5, I believe),Trotz was asked if he rather the Preds acquire a top 6 forward or a D-man. He wanted both, but said if it was one or the other, he went with the D-man.

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Old
12-23-2011, 10:15 PM
  #268
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Kostitsyn was snatched by Canadiens the year early then he was suppose to go. Look at his numbers in juniors. He would go second round at least.

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12-23-2011, 10:23 PM
  #269
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I know everyone wants a goal scorer; but I really think that we need a top flight penalty killing forward RIGHT FREAKING NOW to take care of our ailing PK!!

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12-23-2011, 11:18 PM
  #270
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I know everyone wants a goal scorer; but I really think that we need a top flight penalty killing forward RIGHT FREAKING NOW to take care of our ailing PK!!
you want another penalty killing forward? with spaling, smithson, legwand, erat, fisher, kostitsyn, and halischuck? what we need is a crease clearing dmen

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12-23-2011, 11:19 PM
  #271
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I wasn't doing anything more than answering a question

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Old
12-23-2011, 11:20 PM
  #272
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And Token is right. Another shutdown defenseman who can play second pairing minutes (plus Klein coming back) makes our PK better

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12-23-2011, 11:49 PM
  #273
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Originally Posted by token grinder View Post
you want another penalty killing forward? with spaling, smithson, legwand, erat, fisher, kostitsyn, and halischuck? what we need is a crease clearing dmen
a.freakin.men... our defense is soft outside of weber. we need an acquisition similar to brendan witt, remember him? but not necessarily him.. lol

id still rather have another scorer upfront.. i believe our d-corps have the ability to grow as the season goes on and get better.. however them being soft down low and in the crease won't change so much imo

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12-23-2011, 11:56 PM
  #274
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I think if/when Poile gets the bigger dman, and I honestly wouldn't expect more than a 3rd pair type, It will do two things. Remove Hillen from the lineup and create compotition between josi and blum, and it will raise both their games.

edit:

actually I think I am wrong here. I think we will find a way to keep both Blum and Josi in the lineup. When we get desperate for offense, we can't have 3 defensive dmen. Last year, trotz put franson and blum together late in games when we were behind and it was effective. I can see the same deal with josi and blum. I don't think Klein or Cube s the answer there. I think the bouillon becoes the scratch as long as these two kids are playing the right way. It will be a matter of which kid we need to protect and when.

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12-24-2011, 01:58 AM
  #275
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So many mistakes on this roster given the spot we were in heading into the off-season. The thing is - we have all the assets and a ton of cap space to fix it. If Blum doesn't turn it around soon, he could be the piece used to acquire a forward. A defensemen will definitely be acquired at some point. I just hope he is a useful upgrade.

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