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Old
12-22-2011, 01:17 PM
  #51
R4lph B4ckstrom
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This team represented my great-grandfather, my grandpa, my father, and me.

Not anymore.



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12-22-2011, 01:29 PM
  #52
MasterDecoy
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Disagree entirely. It's worse than that. First, you cannot have a top-notch penalty kill without good coaching, a team that wants to play for its coach and hard work. Simple as that.

It's too easy for fans and the media to say that effort is the issue. It's not. Effort is something fans know can be controlled because fans generally have no understanding of the talent of these guys. The difference between an NHL player and an AHL player is actually quite small because of the law of diminishing marginal returns -- but it is insurmountable.

The issues are scoring and depth. They have been for a while. It was obvious last night that the talent level is not there. The Blackhawks players do everything at top speed with their feet moving. Anyone who has done any scouting knows that one of the things that separates the players is the ability to do everything with one's feet moving. It's a level of difficulty above the norm. Too many times the Canadiens were playing from a standstill or without their feet moving. It's not always a conscious choice to stop taking strides or stop. It's an ability issue.

Depth has been an issue for a while, too. That should be immediately obvious any time T Moen suits up for a line that isn't the 4th one. Boston didn't win last year b/c of "grit" or "toughness." It was talent and depth. Their first 2 lines are just a touch better than ours. Their 3rd and 4th lines are a lot better than ours. Ideally you need about seven 20 goal scorers to win the Cup; five is a minimum. That's one of the measures coaches use, even in the "trap" or "left-wing lock" era. Boston had four last year, with one at 18 and the Wheeler/Peverley combo at 17, plus a d-man at 14, as well as an 18 yr old and two thugs in double digits. Our team last year was far and away the lowest scoring playoff team in the east.

That's not all on Martin and his system. If anything his system was in place b/c the talent dictated no other choice. The same thing happens in basketball and football. You can coach defense. Offense depends on talent.
gawd... DAMN!

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12-22-2011, 02:30 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by R4lph B4ckstrom View Post
This team represented my great-grandfather, my grandpa, my father, and me.

Not anymore.


Long live the Maroons, then !

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12-22-2011, 02:54 PM
  #54
Melvin Udall
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Originally Posted by Kingbobert View Post
This team is lifeless...they have no fire they have no passion they have no will to play. This team no longer represent the passionate crazy rowdy fans it has.

Teams of the past always had the same life on and off the ice that their fans had but now, we've burned ourselves out cheering with nothing in return. We're tired and are starting to lose interest.

Usually in times like this, you turn to your leaders to light a fire under the teams ass, but unfortunately, our captain is as boring and even tempered as the man that runs this team PG. The GM lies to us to keep us happy about things (markov situation) and has the personality of a grass blade.

This organization has become such a bore, so lifeless. How can a team thats legendary across all sports allow itself to be the complete opposite of what it has been throughout its existence?

Kingbobert,

You sir are way too accurate and honest to even be on this board.

I don't know about you but - I'm confused!

I got flamed off the board a few times in the past for suggesting that the HABS need (and for that matter have long needed) a complete rebuild and a lot of (no doubt, the most hockey-savvy) poster on this board assured me that this team was an injured player or 2 away from being a GENUINE Stanley Cup contender.

Now - we have some of these same people complainig that the Habs are not good.

No wonder I'm confused!


Reality: When Gainey blew the Habs up in the summer of 2009 he should have tanked the team drafted well (prolem there - he would have had to re-structure the scouting staff) and built the team through the draft.

Whomever takes over from Gauthier - I hope he finally does the job the right way.


GO HABS GO!


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12-22-2011, 03:09 PM
  #55
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There's at least 25 other franchises that would love to have the fans we do here...
Hmmm... no.

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Old
12-22-2011, 07:24 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Kingbobert View Post


why cant we have a team on ice that's as passionate as its fans

most of you seem to have misunderstood this thread as a world is ending thread, but it's just an observation

most ppl that have been watching since atleast the early 90s will tell you this is one of the lifeless teams we've ever had
agree with you 110% I have been watching the team since I was born and my earliest memories are from the 80's battles with Quebec and some other teams. Those were the last memorable teams for me character wise. We've had a few players come and go who I thought were born for the CH but for the most part, all the last couple of decades blend in with eachother,only being distinguishable by extremely poor management and coaching landmarks. Obviously 93 was an exception. This team bores me to death and I'm pretty annoyed by the team overall. I still see a really good future if they play their cards remotely well, but my confidence in their abilities to do that is very little.

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12-22-2011, 10:45 PM
  #57
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of course it doesn't , upper management doesn't care about the fanbase culture and half the players are mercenaries.I also hate the way they give us useless quebecois 4th line players to manipulate us into feeling better about it.Screw them.

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12-23-2011, 04:07 PM
  #58
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As an outsider [Flyers fan} who puts the game of Hockey and the NHL above any one team,I think it is a very bad thing for the NHL as a league to have the once proud Montreal Canadien's struggling the way they have recently.I have watched quite a few Montreal games this past season, and its quite disturbing to watch a club that is just a shell of what it once was....I see the team as very soft, lacking a will to win, and void of any REAL leadership out on the ice....I honestly feel for you Habs fans, because i know the Habs are the New York Yankees of Hockey up in Canada.....Hopefully some MAJOR changes will come your way soon and the ship can be righted...

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12-23-2011, 04:20 PM
  #59
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I think it's more complicated that that. Do you honestly think the players are HAPPY with the way things are going? When this team plays well, we call the SAME bunch of people warriors, beating the odds, making us proud, etc. Now that they are in a massive slump (in which we've already abandoned the injury factor) everyone just assumes they are greedy millionaires.

I agree they SUCK right now, but the reason they aren't playing "with passion" is cuz they don't know what to do on the ice. Again and again it's been repeated, there is no cohesion. The young players are learning, the veterans expect to be spoon-fed and it's just not a good combination...right now.

Also, if our fans are defined as cultural bigots who sink to new lows, then I think yeah, maybe the team reflects that. Thankfully the former are fringe non-fans and I do believe that in the end we'll look like the team we were supposed to be. I'm doubtful about the playoffs now just cuz it requires a huge streak, even though we're still pretty close, but I have hope, I'm still going to watch every game and I expect them to figure things out.

From the comments on these boards, you can say something about us - a lot of us are capricious, petty and repetitive, you never know what the next outburst is going to be. Again, in that respect, we resemble the team. I'd rather not go down the darkest day route and would rather see the ship right itself instead of explode and hope for some 3 year rebuild (which everyone assumes would win us the cup). All we can do is wait and hope.

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Old
12-23-2011, 04:26 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by SgtJoseph View Post
As an outsider [Flyers fan} who puts the game of Hockey and the NHL above any one team,I think it is a very bad thing for the NHL as a league to have the once proud Montreal Canadien's struggling the way they have recently.I have watched quite a few Montreal games this past season, and its quite disturbing to watch a club that is just a shell of what it once was....I see the team as very soft, lacking a will to win, and void of any REAL leadership out on the ice....I honestly feel for you Habs fans, because i know the Habs are the New York Yankees of Hockey up in Canada.....Hopefully some MAJOR changes will come your way soon and the ship can be righted...
If you feel so bad you could give us Giroux

Seriously though, thanks for the kind words. Hopefully this skid wakes the organization up from its slumber, and it starts investing money in good hockey people (no matter the language they speak.).

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12-23-2011, 04:26 PM
  #61
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I represent myself.

Maybe I'm just too free-minded.

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12-23-2011, 04:40 PM
  #62
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If this team represented it's fans it would be a bunch of beer swilling garage leaguers with too much time on their hands.........nevermind....they DO represent their fans very well right now.


Seriously? represent the fans? Come-on. This is the year 2011, there are more than just francophones living in quebec now. There is the anglos, other european immigrants, asians, africans, all their descendants.

Not to mention, who gives a crap where they are from and what language they speak. The only thing they need to do is win.



I bet all those who "don`t feel represented" would participate in that farce of a protest on Jan 7th.


And before anyone says something....


Je suis francophone. J`était né à Montréal et élevé en Ontario. J`ai vécu à travers notre pays pendant les dernières 19 ans que je suis dans les Forces Canadiennes. Oui, je suis un Canadien en PREMIER!

Je suis fière d`être un amateur des Canadiens. Si vous est tellement déçu arrète de suivre l`équipe òu attends pour vos Nordiques.

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12-23-2011, 05:00 PM
  #63
habtastic
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Originally Posted by Halifaxhab View Post
If this team represented it's fans it would be a bunch of beer swilling garage leaguers with too much time on their hands.........nevermind....they DO represent their fans very well right now.


Seriously? represent the fans? Come-on. This is the year 2011, there are more than just francophones living in quebec now. There is the anglos, other european immigrants, asians, africans, all their descendants.

Not to mention, who gives a crap where they are from and what language they speak. The only thing they need to do is win.



I bet all those who "don`t feel represented" would participate in that farce of a protest on Jan 7th.


And before anyone says something....


Je suis francophone. J`était né à Montréal et élevé en Ontario. J`ai vécu à travers notre pays pendant les dernières 19 ans que je suis dans les Forces Canadiennes. Oui, je suis un Canadien en PREMIER!

Je suis fière d`être un amateur des Canadiens. Si vous est tellement déçu arrète de suivre l`équipe òu attends pour vos Nordiques.
Au sujet de langue (et de culture)...^ça

this^


ps. our players are mercenaries. what a hyperbolic and stupid remark.

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12-23-2011, 05:28 PM
  #64
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Au sujet de langue (et de culture)...^ça

this^


ps. our players are mercenaries. what a hyperbolic and stupid remark.
merci...exactly. All go to highest bidder

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Old
12-23-2011, 09:14 PM
  #65
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Guys - Since the late 60s I've watched our team have a few terrible seasons. I've also watched them win 9 Cups. But mostly, I've watched a whole lot of in-between. We're now in one of those uncomfortable transitions from in-between to bad, just when we thought we were headed the other way. Instead of up, we're inexplicably on a downward course. That's what makes it so tough. Just like 2010's playoffs were amazing because the results were so much better than expected, this season's results are agonizing because they're so much worse than expected. I mean, WTF?? The same core of players that finished a solid 6th, with the addition of Cole and the return of Pacioretty -- how can we NOT be better?? It still makes no sense and yet here we are, floundering. Reasons are most likely mental and motivational -- which is good news as far as trade bait. Teams won't nibble at damaged goods, but they WILL jump to acquire some other team's unhappy talent.

Mark it - we will come back, as every team does and as the Habs have always done. We'll improve. We'll change where needed. And we will contend. Not because PG will suddenly become Sam Pollock, or even Serge Savard, but because I cannot believe the Molsons will allow their business heritage to fail. Good, passionate owners demand results and expect success, and they'll spend the money to get both. Geoff Molson grew up with the same team we did, and I'm convinced his feelings for the Canadiens run much deeper than a business investment. He'll do what it takes, and get the best people available. Next year's free agents, this year's trades, immediate help in management -- all being examined as we speak.

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12-23-2011, 10:35 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Halifaxhab View Post
If this team represented it's fans it would be a bunch of beer swilling garage leaguers with too much time on their hands.........nevermind....they DO represent their fans very well right now.


Seriously? represent the fans? Come-on. This is the year 2011, there are more than just francophones living in quebec now. There is the anglos, other european immigrants, asians, africans, all their descendants.

Not to mention, who gives a crap where they are from and what language they speak. The only thing they need to do is win.



I bet all those who "don`t feel represented" would participate in that farce of a protest on Jan 7th.


And before anyone says something....


Je suis francophone. J`était né à Montréal et élevé en Ontario. J`ai vécu à travers notre pays pendant les dernières 19 ans que je suis dans les Forces Canadiennes. Oui, je suis un Canadien en PREMIER!

Je suis fière d`être un amateur des Canadiens. Si vous est tellement déçu arrète de suivre l`équipe òu attends pour vos Nordiques.

you would of benefited from reading my first post and not just the title as i never mentioned anything about the team representing the french...

just in case you're not familiar with world flags, the flag under my avatar is a GREEK flag, since i'm GREEK and was born in GREECE not a French Canadian born in Quebec so I really dont understand where you got the idea that i mean the team should represent francophones.

but as irrelevant as your post is to mine, i agree with you

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12-24-2011, 04:52 AM
  #67
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no, on the contrary, i think this organization represents it's fan perfectly.

win now, no patience regarding anything, a season ending without a cup is a failure, 2 losses in a row and people need to be fired, 2 point-less game and people need to be traded, more in touch with the reality of the seventies than the reality of the two-thousandsies

montreal has the team it deserves.

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Old
12-24-2011, 07:26 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Kingbobert View Post
you would of benefited from reading my first post and not just the title as i never mentioned anything about the team representing the french...

just in case you're not familiar with world flags, the flag under my avatar is a GREEK flag, since i'm GREEK and was born in GREECE not a French Canadian born in Quebec so I really dont understand where you got the idea that i mean the team should represent francophones.

but as irrelevant as your post is to mine, i agree with you
I did read your OP. And I have been in the military for a long time and because of that I am (unfortunately) very well travelled. And TBH I can care less what flag you or anyone else wants to fly. The only one that matters in this whole mess is the Flag of the Montreal Canadiens.

My post was directed at the many posts after your OP with regards to the language / culture issue.


To answer your OP...

"This team is lifeless" ---

A -This team is not lifeless, they are simply unable to win because they lack some key elements to the team. This is due to injuries to some extent, but mostly due to the rescent patchwork at the expense of picks/prospects.

"Usually in times like this, you turn to your leaders to light a fire under the teams ass, but unfortunately, our captain is as boring and even tempered as the man that runs this team PG. The GM lies to us to keep us happy about things (markov situation) and has the personality of a grass blade."

A-There is nothing wrong with Gionta as captain, he may be quiet with the media, but he is known to be a vocal dressing room leader (which is more important) and gives 100% effort at all times on the ice, thus setting a good example to the rest of the team (some of who have disregarded). Although I agree that the management team needs to be shaken up, but not because of their personalities, but because of their lack of mid/long term planning. This is not directed to Trevor Timmins and the scouting staff who have been able to gives us an NHL player for every two picks made in the draft - which no other team can boast.


"How can a team thats legendary across all sports allow itself to be the complete opposite of what it has been throughout its existence?"----------------

A- Parity my friend, Parity. The difference between teams is so minimal now because talent is watered down. The Red Wings were known as the Dead Wings for many years, they then drafted and devellopped players wisely, managed and coached well and it has paid off with nearly 20 years of being a Stanley Cup Contender. Our problem has more to do with the management of assets and some poor moves made at the NHL level of the franchise.


I feel this year is one of those key gut checks that come to a franchise once a decade that decide its fate for the next 10years. I am hoping they make the choice to sell some outgoing assets to upgrade the youth, depth and talent of this franchise.

And an honest question to you - Would this team represent you/us if they were winning or would you still feel the same?

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Old
12-24-2011, 07:56 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by MasterDecoy View Post
no, on the contrary, i think this organization represents it's fan perfectly.

win now, no patience regarding anything, a season ending without a cup is a failure, 2 losses in a row and people need to be fired, 2 point-less game and people need to be traded, more in touch with the reality of the seventies than the reality of the two-thousandsies

montreal has the team it deserves.
No. That is untrue, and unfair.

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12-24-2011, 07:59 AM
  #70
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Disagree entirely. It's worse than that. First, you cannot have a top-notch penalty kill without good coaching, a team that wants to play for its coach and hard work. Simple as that.

It's too easy for fans and the media to say that effort is the issue. It's not. Effort is something fans know can be controlled because fans generally have no understanding of the talent of these guys. The difference between an NHL player and an AHL player is actually quite small because of the law of diminishing marginal returns -- but it is insurmountable.

The issues are scoring and depth. They have been for a while. It was obvious last night that the talent level is not there. The Blackhawks players do everything at top speed with their feet moving. Anyone who has done any scouting knows that one of the things that separates the players is the ability to do everything with one's feet moving. It's a level of difficulty above the norm. Too many times the Canadiens were playing from a standstill or without their feet moving. It's not always a conscious choice to stop taking strides or stop. It's an ability issue.

Depth has been an issue for a while, too. That should be immediately obvious any time T Moen suits up for a line that isn't the 4th one. Boston didn't win last year b/c of "grit" or "toughness." It was talent and depth. Their first 2 lines are just a touch better than ours. Their 3rd and 4th lines are a lot better than ours. Ideally you need about seven 20 goal scorers to win the Cup; five is a minimum. That's one of the measures coaches use, even in the "trap" or "left-wing lock" era. Boston had four last year, with one at 18 and the Wheeler/Peverley combo at 17, plus a d-man at 14, as well as an 18 yr old and two thugs in double digits. Our team last year was far and away the lowest scoring playoff team in the east.

That's not all on Martin and his system. If anything his system was in place b/c the talent dictated no other choice. The same thing happens in basketball and football. You can coach defense. Offense depends on talent.
I'm just gonna quote this again because this is so true.

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12-24-2011, 08:10 AM
  #71
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Habs fans suck, so the team represent us pretty well.

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12-24-2011, 08:22 AM
  #72
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I feel represented by Gorges, a Canadian-born guy with German roots.

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12-24-2011, 03:17 PM
  #73
MasterDecoy
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No. That is untrue, and unfair.
i would say it's completely true and completely fair. i am a reasonable person, convince me otherwise...

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12-24-2011, 04:37 PM
  #74
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I did read your OP. And I have been in the military for a long time and because of that I am (unfortunately) very well travelled. And TBH I can care less what flag you or anyone else wants to fly. The only one that matters in this whole mess is the Flag of the Montreal Canadiens.

My post was directed at the many posts after your OP with regards to the language / culture issue.
considering the part you wrote in french clearly shows you're losing it... meh...

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12-24-2011, 08:33 PM
  #75
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considering the part you wrote in french clearly shows you're losing it... meh...
hopefully only losing the fair weather fans who wait on a return of the nordiques. And I am getting very tired of this crap. I am not looking forward to seeing that silly protest.

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