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Ron Wilson needs to be fired! 4 years of Failure.

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Old
12-23-2011, 05:47 PM
  #376
Darcy Tucker
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Originally Posted by bjtkyo View Post
I just hate the incredible fallacy of "he's a good coach, so we should keep him."

Plenty of great coaches, the best of all time, had to move teams because they were fired or not extended. Just because Wilson is a decent coach doesn't justify keeping him if he's not a good fit. Versteeg is a good player, but wasn't fitting in with Toronto and wasn't doing a great job.
maybe this is true, but you dont make a coaching overhaul unless you are desperate and things just arent working out here. Wilson finally has a steady roster and dependable goaltending and his best players are playing to their capability. As a result we are 4 games over .500 and in a playoff spot at Christmas for the first time in a long time.

in what other market would this justify the GM firing the headcoach?

did Wilson date some of you guys moms? so much hate.

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Old
12-23-2011, 06:09 PM
  #377
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I don't think he'll to be fired this season unless we go into a huge funk, and I expect his future will depend on whether we make the playoffs.

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12-23-2011, 06:57 PM
  #378
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Originally Posted by keonsbitterness View Post
I don't think he'll to be fired this season unless we go into a huge funk, and I expect his future will depend on whether we make the playoffs.
To be honest, I think he shoud be fired regardless of how the team does this year.

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12-23-2011, 07:02 PM
  #379
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Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
To be honest, I think he shoud be fired regardless of how the team does this year.
besides the PK, why?

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Old
12-23-2011, 07:17 PM
  #380
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Originally Posted by Darcy Tucker View Post
besides the PK, why?
A 30th ranked PK for a 4th straight year that could now cost us a playoff spot isn't enough to warrant change?

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12-23-2011, 07:29 PM
  #381
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Originally Posted by Darcy Tucker View Post
besides the PK, why?
It's not just the PK, it's even strength defense too. You can't be one of the worst defensive teams year after year, with new players throughout, and expect to win with consistency.

Any player can be at least solid defensively. While the elite defensive players have the vision to see plays coming at them, any player can perform the basics - back-check, pick up your man, stay in position, look for guys to cover, block shots, don't cheat on offense, etc. As I tell my players, there are lots of excuses for having a bad day on offense, but there is never an excuse for having a bad day defensively. Discipline and effort are the only things you need to contibute defensively, and those are things that any player, regardless of abilitty, can do on a nightly basis.

Since the Leafs have been pathetic defensively since Wilson has been here, there are only 2 possible reasons. First, Ron Wilson does not demand that his players do the above basics of defensive hockey. Second, Ron Wilson does demand them, but the players won't listen to him. Neither of those suggest he should continue to coach this team.

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Old
12-23-2011, 07:38 PM
  #382
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Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
To be honest, I think he shoud be fired regardless of how the team does this year.
So, say we win the Cup...

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Old
12-23-2011, 07:38 PM
  #383
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Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
It's not just the PK, it's even strength defense too. You can't be one of the worst defensive teams year after year, with new players throughout, and expect to win with consistency.

Any player can be at least solid defensively. While the elite defensive players have the vision to see plays coming at them, any player can perform the basics - back-check, pick up your man, stay in position, look for guys to cover, block shots, don't cheat on offense, etc. As I tell my players, there are lots of excuses for having a bad day on offense, but there is never an excuse for having a bad day defensively. Discipline and effort are the only things you need to contibute defensively, and those are things that any player, regardless of abilitty, can do on a nightly basis.

Since the Leafs have been pathetic defensively since Wilson has been here, there are only 2 possible reasons. First, Ron Wilson does not demand that his players do the above basics of defensive hockey. Second, Ron Wilson does demand them, but the players won't listen to him. Neither of those suggest he should continue to coach this team.
Good post, you should ask Tucker the poster why also. But the why is, why does he deserve an extension based on the 4 years he has been here? This will prove to be a more challenging arguement. You only extend him if he makes the playoffs and the team gives a good account of themselves in the first rd over more.

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Old
12-23-2011, 07:47 PM
  #384
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Originally Posted by AlmightyPO View Post
A 30th ranked PK for a 4th straight year that could now cost us a playoff spot isn't enough to warrant change?
No, it's just the one thing that those who are more concerned with RW's personality than his coaching abilities can continually point to.

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12-23-2011, 07:49 PM
  #385
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Originally Posted by russmatuss View Post
So, say we win the Cup...
That would depend. This team needs to make some major changes to even compete for the Cup. One of those changes needs to be coaching. If Ron Wilson can make the changes he needs to make, he can stay.....

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12-23-2011, 07:56 PM
  #386
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No, it's just the one thing that those who are more concerned with RW's personality than his coaching abilities can continually point to.
This is ridiculous Edg27, Leafs fans would tolerate RW's personality if would bring this city a Cup, heck even winning 1 playoff rd. That's all fans want. They wouldn't care less if the guy was a dcik if we were winning.

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Old
12-23-2011, 08:23 PM
  #387
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Originally Posted by egd27 View Post
No, it's just the one thing that those who are more concerned with RW's personality than his coaching abilities can continually point to.
So what exactly is needed for a Wilson firing to be warranted?

Since to me such shotty defensive play, despite both player and assistant coach changes, for however many years is exactly why he should go. People can claim all they want that the players are just not following his system, but the fact is if the players are not following his system he has to go. Even if he has a great system, it hasn't shown, and we will need a coach who can get the players to buy into a system that preaches some defense if we want to go anywhere.

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Old
12-24-2011, 03:23 AM
  #388
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Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
It's not just the PK, it's even strength defense too. You can't be one of the worst defensive teams year after year, with new players throughout, and expect to win with consistency.

So, what would you like to back these statements up?

At 5:5, the Leafs are 8th in the NHL at GF/GA ratio, better than great defensive teams like:

Chicago, Dallas, Pittsburg, Edmonton, Winnipeg, Phoenix, Buffalo, Minnesota, Montreal, Calgary, Washington, Ottawa, Nashville, Florida, Tampa, New Jersey, Carolina, Colorado, LA, Columbus, Anaheim, NYI

Leafs are 24 in overall GA/game.

Leafs are 17th in 5:5 Goals against per game. 1 goal more than Philly, Winnipeg, Dallas, Calgary, and 2 more than Florida, Buffalo, and Nashville. (Therefore 2 goals away from 10th).

edit: learned this from a friend

Leafs are 4th in the NHL when leading after the 1st period (.917)
Leafs are tied for 1st when leading after 2 periods (1.00)
Leafs are tied for 1st when leading after the 3rd (1.00)


Last edited by smoke meat pete*: 12-24-2011 at 03:32 AM.
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Old
12-24-2011, 03:54 AM
  #389
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Originally Posted by dynrehab View Post
So, what would you like to back these statements up?

At 5:5, the Leafs are 8th in the NHL at GF/GA ratio, better than great defensive teams like:

Chicago, Dallas, Pittsburg, Edmonton, Winnipeg, Phoenix, Buffalo, Minnesota, Montreal, Calgary, Washington, Ottawa, Nashville, Florida, Tampa, New Jersey, Carolina, Colorado, LA, Columbus, Anaheim, NYI

Leafs are 24 in overall GA/game.

Leafs are 17th in 5:5 Goals against per game. 1 goal more than Philly, Winnipeg, Dallas, Calgary, and 2 more than Florida, Buffalo, and Nashville. (Therefore 2 goals away from 10th).

edit: learned this from a friend

Leafs are 4th in the NHL when leading after the 1st period (.917)
Leafs are tied for 1st when leading after 2 periods (1.00)
Leafs are tied for 1st when leading after the 3rd (1.00)
if we get out goalies to stay solid rest of the season and pk unit under check we should be fine.

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12-24-2011, 05:55 AM
  #390
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Originally Posted by dynrehab View Post
So, what would you like to back these statements?
Never let facts get in the way of bleating out an opinion. I'm fairly certain that's in the site rules, though I haven't looked.

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12-24-2011, 07:55 AM
  #391
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Originally Posted by dynrehab View Post
So, what would you like to back these statements up?
I didn't make it up. Even at their best, the Leafs have been a below average team defensively under Wilson.... and they haven't been their best very often.

Quote:
At 5:5, the Leafs are 8th in the NHL at GF/GA ratio, better than great defensive teams like:

Chicago, Dallas, Pittsburg, Edmonton, Winnipeg, Phoenix, Buffalo, Minnesota, Montreal, Calgary, Washington, Ottawa, Nashville, Florida, Tampa, New Jersey, Carolina, Colorado, LA, Columbus, Anaheim, NYI
So to counter my argument that they suck defensively, you use an argument that relies on goals for?

Quote:
Leafs are 24 in overall GA/game.
That's my point. They are terrible defensively.

The scary thing is that this is the highest they have ranked under Wilson. In previous years, they were 25th, 29th, and 27th.

Quote:
Leafs are 17th in 5:5 Goals against per game. 1 goal more than Philly, Winnipeg, Dallas, Calgary, and 2 more than Florida, Buffalo, and Nashville. (Therefore 2 goals away from 10th).
So, we're almost average in one defensive statistic? Excellent!

Quote:
Leafs are 4th in the NHL when leading after the 1st period (.917)
Leafs are tied for 1st when leading after 2 periods (1.00)
Leafs are tied for 1st when leading after the 3rd (1.00)
And when trailing, they have one of the worst come-back records. That's more a sign of a team that's hot and cold, mentally fragile, or a bunch of front-runners.

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Old
12-24-2011, 08:00 AM
  #392
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I think it's HILARIOUS this thread stays at the top of the page, despite the fact we have our BEST record at the Christmas break in 7 years!

Kills me.


Fire this a hole now!

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Old
12-24-2011, 08:13 AM
  #393
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Originally Posted by SteveV View Post
I think it's HILARIOUS this thread stays at the top of the page, despite the fact we have our BEST record at the Christmas break in 7 years!

Kills me.


Fire this a hole now!
I'm sure it has nothing to do with the fact that we have the best roster in 7 years....

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12-24-2011, 08:24 AM
  #394
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Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
I'm sure it has nothing to do with the fact that we have the best roster in 7 years....
Just as our complete crap roster his first three years had nothing to do with failure then RIGHT?

Exactly.

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12-24-2011, 08:30 AM
  #395
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Just as our complete crap roster his first three years had nothing to do with failure then RIGHT?

Exactly.
I hate Wilson...having said that I hope Burke extends him for 3 more years...I know fans like you love the wheel-spinning that Ron provides. Career .500 coach with zero playoff results. Bring it on.

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12-24-2011, 08:32 AM
  #396
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I hate Wilson...having said that I hope Burke extends him for 3 more years...I know fans like you love the wheel-spinning that Ron provides. Career .500 coach with zero playoff results. Bring it on.
Yes, like you I can't stand the way we usually outwork every team we play. Wilson is a good coach, period.

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12-24-2011, 08:34 AM
  #397
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Yes, like you I can't stand the way we usually outwork every team we play. Wilson is a good coach, period.
Poor Ronnie...a career of coaching crappy rosters...the guy can't catch a break....

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12-24-2011, 08:36 AM
  #398
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Poor Ronnie...a career of coaching crappy rosters...the guy can't catch a break....
Best record at the break in seven years! Poor whiny people with an axe to grind.

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Old
12-24-2011, 08:37 AM
  #399
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Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
I didn't make it up. Even at their best, the Leafs have been a below average team defensively under Wilson.... and they haven't been their best very often.



So to counter my argument that they suck defensively, you use an argument that relies on goals for?



That's my point. They are terrible defensively.

The scary thing is that this is the highest they have ranked under Wilson. In previous years, they were 25th, 29th, and 27th.



So, we're almost average in one defensive statistic? Excellent!



And when trailing, they have one of the worst come-back records. That's more a sign of a team that's hot and cold, mentally fragile, or a bunch of front-runners.
and this (and the defensive mistakes) have NOTHING to do with the team being the youngest in the league?

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Old
12-24-2011, 08:46 AM
  #400
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Yes, like you I can't stand the way we usually outwork every team we play. Wilson is a good coach, period.
The Bruins work hard, the majority of NHL teams work hard, this doesn't make one a good coach. Systems, special teams play, adapting on the fly to other teams are factors are just a few other factors that make a good coach.

Leafs are winning simply because there is more talent on this roster, not Wilson. He is coaching the same since year 1 here as in year 4, the players are the sole reason why this team is winning. Let's not be fooled, the last 3 games we haven't looked great, Reimer stole us 3 out of 4 points against Buffalo and LA. Last night we held on against a bad hockey team, PK under Wilson is still a problem moving fwd. Nice that we got 5 out of 6 points, but it's also healthy to analyze just where we are, team still has areas that they can improve on.

Most positive thing to come out of the break is Nazem Kadri's development under Eakins, Wilson should call Dallas and thank him for getting him back on track.

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