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It's not panic time in Buffalo -- yet

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Old
12-21-2011, 02:51 PM
  #76
Zip15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slip View Post
To be honest Josh, I have no idea what ails Anaheim, although I would venture to guess it has a lot more to do with their defense corps rather than who mans the third and 4th lines. The core group of forwards you mention won Anaheim the cup, but they also had Pronger and Niedermayer anchoring the blue line back then, not old man Loods and a banged up Visnovovsky.
While it's not the only problem, it's certainly one of the primary ones. If any of you bought the Hockey Prospectus, they called this happening to Anaheim. Here are a few snippets:

Quote:
Having beaten the luck horse to death, we’ll discuss the Ducks most obvious weakness, which answers the question of how a team with top players like Ryan Getzlaf, Corey Perry, Bobby Ryan, Teemu Selanne, and Lubomir Visnovsky can be possibly considered such an underdog: they have utterly no depth.
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Can you picture this scene? Randy Carlyle, having coached the Anaheim Ducks into the postseason five of the past six seasons including a Stanley Cup in 2006-07, angrily slams GM Bob Murray’s table while negotiating his three-year extension. “Dammit, Bob! I’m telling you for the last time! If we’re going to get past the first round, you know what we’ll need!” “Yes,” Murray responds with a sigh. “It won’t be easy, but I’ll sign every Oilers castoff I can find.”

For whatever reason, “not enough Oiler rejects” sprang to mind when the Ducks reviewed their roster this offseason. They added the league’s worst faceoff man Andrew Cogliano, skating-challenged enforcer Jean-Francois Jacques, depth defenseman Kurtis Foster, and rubber-allergic backup netminder Jeff Drouin.


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While their Big Five (Perry, Getzlaf, Ryan, Selanne, Koivu) combined for an amazing 91 goals above replacement-level, their other thirteen skaters provided only 33. Nowhere else in the NHL will you see such a huge gap between the top line and the rest of the team, which makes road games an uphill struggle because opposing teams can avoid the tough matchups and key in on their weaker lines.
Quote:
“The power play is nice, the top-end talent is spectacular, but the efforts of a lot of very good players are being wasted because the team’s only about 10 skaters deep,” Jonathan Willis sums up nicely. Unless Charlie Sheen winds up in court with a funny judge who orders him to coach the Ducks, it is going to be a long, dull season in Anaheim.
Mind you, this was written last summer.

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Old
12-22-2011, 03:45 AM
  #77
SECRET SQUIRREL
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Originally Posted by Jim Bob View Post
Vanek and Pominville have been invisible?

Really?
Misspoke there J B... Was really refering to Roy and Stafford for the most part but Vanek and Pommer have definitely cooled down these last few weeks.

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Old
12-22-2011, 01:28 PM
  #78
joshjull
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Very interesting point. Although I will say this... The difference between the two is that Group B has already won a Cup (minus Ryan). The same can not be said about Group A.

My point is no matter how good your top 4 or 5 players are. You need a deep, well built team to have sustained regular season success and to be able to push for a Cup.

Even with the proven players the Ducks have, they are still floundering.

Quote:
Originally Posted by slip View Post
To be honest Josh, I have no idea what ails Anaheim, although I would venture to guess it has a lot more to do with their defense corps rather than who mans the third and 4th lines. The core group of forwards you mention won Anaheim the cup, but they also had Pronger and Niedermayer anchoring the blue line back then, not old man Loods and a banged up Visnovovsky
I've been a Ducks fan post lockout and Zip did a good job laying out their recent issues. But its been building up to this point (or more accurately tearing down) and it goes back to things that happened right after they won the Cup.

In the summer after winning the Cup they lost Penner to an offersheet. But the loss they never recovered from was the trading away of Andy McDonald to the Blues for Doug Weight 33gms into the 07-08 season.

McDonald was their point per game #1 center.

05-06 ---> 82gms 34g 51a 85pts
06-07 ---> 82gms 27g 51a 78pts

During their Cup run those seasons he centered their top line and played with Selanne. In the 2007 playoffs he led the Ducks in total goals (10) and PP goals (5) on their way to a Cup victory.

They lost in the 1st round of the 2008 playoffs that year and they still had Pronger, Nieds and Beauchemin. The three guys that eat huge minutes for them on defense

Then the following season (08-09) they traded away Kunitz, Pahlson and Moen. Essentially gutting what was left of the top 9 that won the Cup in 2007.

Kunitz/McDonald/Selanne
Penner/Getzlaf/Perry
Moen/Pahlson/Nieds

Only the bolded guys were left going into the 2009 playoffs. They still had Pronger, Nieds and Beauchemin on the blueline and lost in the 2nd round of the playoffs.

After the season Pronger gets traded to Philly and Beauchemin leaves in free agency. So they only have Nieds left and they miss the playoffs in the 09-10 season. Then Nieds retires. Last year they got knocked out in the first round and they are currently floundering at the bottom of the league.


The Ducks lost a lot of talent after their Cup win and have done a horrible job trying to replace it. Because of that they heavily rely on Getzlaf, Perry, Ryan and Selanne to shoulder the load for them. Its obviously not nearly enough. Which ties in with my point that no matter how good your top players are. You need a deep and well built team around them to have sustained success in the regular season and playoffs.


Last edited by joshjull: 12-22-2011 at 01:44 PM.
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Old
12-22-2011, 02:57 PM
  #79
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Bruins fan but I come in peace. i posted a similar thread on the trade rumor board sometime back, but I expect a [I]major[/I] move from the Sabres on or before deadline day. YOu do not have to go far to take that implication from Black's statements and it seems very logical to do so.

YOu have a decent core but the ownership is looking to get bigger and meaner. (See Kassian McNabb etc) This is the right way to go and the owner has the money to pick up an extra junk contract to make a trade work.....If San Jose continues to struggle, I might look to them as a trade partner as they have plenty of size but could use more scoring and maybe speed...Also I like Derek Roy more than most, but I were him I would have a realtor on my speedial....
Ty for being peaceful

I agree with some of your points....

I also have one of my own. This 3 year plan everyone is *so* fixated on. We haven't gotten past year one? I'm happy with Pegula/Black. Did you all HONESTLY expect them to swoop in on white horses clean out every piece of dead-weight and have this team as first in the conference within their first year?

I swear logic doesn't come into play when it comes to being a sports fan, I get it....while watching the games i feel the same way.

They HAVE alluded to working on things....hell Darcy Regier, while vocal about the injuries being a problem, has mentioned he's been talking to other GMs. When does he ever do that?

If we get to the start of year three, and this team is exactly the same....and the "core" is intact, I'll start to wonder about him. But there is entirely too much that can be done in a short time to riot like some people are.

I will agree on the stupidity Ruff has been doing, its outrageous. But to blame Ted and Terry for not knee-jerking and blowing up the ship is ridiculous.

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Old
12-23-2011, 10:52 PM
  #80
Jaba the Puck
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It is panic time, because they are sucking bad. They have dropped way too many home games and its going to end up biting them in the behind come the end of the year just like it did a few years ago. I honestly don't even see them making the PO's and even if they do by some miracle, We will get bounced most likely in the first round and I don't even think it will be semi exciting like a 4-2. 4-3 series... we are looking at a being swept real quick series with the way we are playing.

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Old
12-24-2011, 02:53 AM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cursednumber6 View Post
Bruins fan but I come in peace. i posted a similar thread on the trade rumor board sometime back, but I expect a [I]major[/I] move from the Sabres on or before deadline day. YOu do not have to go far to take that implication from Black's statements and it seems very logical to do so.

YOu have a decent core but the ownership is looking to get bigger and meaner. (See Kassian McNabb etc) This is the right way to go and the owner has the money to pick up an extra junk contract to make a trade work.....If San Jose continues to struggle, I might look to them as a trade partner as they have plenty of size but could use more scoring and maybe speed...Also I like Derek Roy more than most, but I were him I would have a realtor on my speedial....
Last time I checked, they were in 1st place in the Pacific Division. What am I missing?

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Old
12-24-2011, 03:38 AM
  #82
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I would be willing to make a generous offer for Pavelski or Couture. Couture is a Bills fan, too! Sadly the price would most likely be way too steep for either of them.

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Old
12-24-2011, 11:29 AM
  #83
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Quote:
Buffalo goes back to work at home Monday against Washington. For the Sabres, the brief pause could be a line in the sand, a chance to treat the next three-plus months like a fresh season.

That happened last year. Following an awful 5-2 loss Dec. 27 in Calgary, the Sabres regrouped, storming from 12th to seventh with a 29-11-6 finish.
http://niagara-gazette.com/prosports...s-take-a-break

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