If only this were true, San Jose was a crappy roster also? I don't understand why people can't see Ronnie has had tremendously talented rosters before and failed.
San Jose was a rebuilding team when he took over.
Washington was a rebuilding team when he took over.
Toronto was a rebuilding team when he took over.
Anaheim was an expansion team when he took the coaching job.
Why is that so hard to recognize? On 4 separate occassions, a GM put his reputation and job on the line to hire the guy they thought was the best fit to coach a rebuilding/expansion team. RW's overall win/loss record, used as an argument for why he is not a good coach is complete crap, used by people who have nothing else to cling to.
Washington was a rebuilding team when he took over.
Toronto was a rebuilding team when he took over.
Anaheim was an expansion team when he took the coaching job.
Why is that so hard to recognize? On 4 separate occassions, a GM put his reputation and job on the line to hire the guy they thought was the best fit to coach a rebuilding/expansion team. RW's overall win/loss record, used as an argument for why he is not a good coach is complete crap, used by people who have nothing else to cling to.
Wilson's always had more success building than finishing, I guess it depends on how you view this team. Personally I'd prefer someone who could take them from fringe to legitimate contenders and I'm skeptical Wilson is that guy, but I don't have a better name off the top of my head.
Washington was a rebuilding team when he took over.
Toronto was a rebuilding team when he took over.
Anaheim was an expansion team when he took the coaching job.
Why is that so hard to recognize? On 4 separate occassions, a GM put his reputation and job on the line to hire the guy they thought was the best fit to coach a rebuilding/expansion team. RW's overall win/loss record, used as an argument for why he is not a good coach is complete crap, used by people who have nothing else to cling to.
This is all fine and dandy, but what does this have to do with the discussion of a possible contract extension or is he the coach that can deliver a Stanley Cup to this city?
We've had this discussion once already, you know where I stand, why ask a question you know the answer to.
Please....being .500 is really mediocrity...no playoff results....no Cups. Not as a player or coach. Leafs finished bottom 5 twice under Wilson.
Look at this impressive coaching record....
Total 1,294 613W 481L 119T 81OTL
Is that the record of a succesful coach?...You would think so. But that is the record of another failure. Jacques Martin. Wouldn't want him as a coach either.
This is all fine and dandy, but what does this have to do with the discussion of a possible contract extension or is he the coach that can deliver a Stanley Cup to this city?
We've had this discussion once already, you know where I stand, why ask a question you know the answer to.
Because someone was trying to use his career record to justify why he's not a good coach and why he should not be coach of the Leafs.
Wilson's always had more success building than finishing, I guess it depends on how you view this team. Personally I'd prefer someone who could take them from fringe to legitimate contenders and I'm skeptical Wilson is that guy, but I don't have a better name off the top of my head.
Well then we agree. I've said it before, and I'll say it again, I want a different coach next year, but it doesn't mean Wilson was a bad coach for the Leafs.
Well then we agree. I've said it before, and I'll say it again, I want a different coach next year, but it doesn't mean Wilson was a bad coach for the Leafs.
I feel this way as well. I don't feel wilson should be fired, but I would like to see a change next year. If the Marlies continue their success for the entire season, I wouldn't be surprised to see Eakins given the reigns. He uses the same system and has institutional knowledge about the organization.
I feel this way as well. I don't feel wilson should be fired, but I would like to see a change next year. If the Marlies continue their success for the entire season, I wouldn't be surprised to see Eakins given the reigns. He uses the same system and has institutional knowledge about the organization.
Perhaps Wilson will move upstairs...
I kinda thought we'd see one of the assistant coaches as his replacement.
How about this for a reason not to give him an extension. It seems most on this site acknowledge that this is now one of the better young teams in the league and "better" than last year. At the beginning of the year, the single biggest improvements needed to be in the PK and the goals against, obviously related issues. We are last in PK again, and the percentage is even worse than last year. The goals against are higher than last year. Pretty special coach that can have a better team but still regress defensively.
How about this for a reason not to give him an extension. It seems most on this site acknowledge that this is now one of the better young teams in the league and "better" than last year. At the beginning of the year, the single biggest improvements needed to be in the PK and the goals against, obviously related issues. We are last in PK again, and the percentage is even worse than last year. The goals against are higher than last year. Pretty special coach that can have a better team but still regress defensively.
Yes, like how our powerplay is better than last year with a "better team"? Is that regression too, since it's all about special teams?? 22nd to 3rd! What a coach.
I didn't make it up. Even at their best, the Leafs have been a below average team defensively under Wilson.... and they haven't been their best very often.
No, they are terrible at penalty kill. The rest has been average or better all season.
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So to counter my argument that they suck defensively, you use an argument that relies on goals for?
The goal of a hockey game is to score more goals than you allow. At even strength, the Leafs allow less goals than they score.
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That's my point. They are terrible defensively.
The scary thing is that this is the highest they have ranked under Wilson. In previous years, they were 25th, 29th, and 27th.
The PK sucks.
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So, we're almost average in one defensive statistic? Excellent!
Because of the system Wilson allows, it is expected to have higher goals against than teams who trap. But, somehow playing this completely crap system, at even strength they are average.
Combine that with a carousel of inexperienced goaltenders and a very young defence, I'm not bothered by it.
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And when trailing, they have one of the worst come-back records. That's more a sign of a team that's hot and cold, mentally fragile, or a bunch of front-runners
.
They are 16th when trailing after 1, and 20th when trailing after 2.
Yes, like how our powerplay is better than last year with a "better team"? Is that regression too, since it's all about special teams?? 22nd to 3rd! What a coach.
I forgot - that's the new style coaching. Offense wins championships not defense. Good luck with that if or when we make the playoffs.
I kinda thought we'd see one of the assistant coaches as his replacement.
True, I would imagine both Eakins and Gordon would interview for it. I believe Eakins would win the job though. He has more experience with our youngsters, and has several years of head coaching experience in the org already.
Begs the question though. What is the best way to become a head coach in the NHL? Head coach in the ahl or assistant in the nhl? My guess is the AHL route is the way to go. Maybe thats why Eakins moved to the AHL.
True, I would imagine both Eakins and Gordon would interview for it. I believe Eakins would win the job though. He has more experience with our youngsters, and has several years of head coaching experience in the org already.
Begs the question though. What is the best way to become a head coach in the NHL? Head coach in the ahl or assistant in the nhl? My guess is the AHL route is the way to go. Maybe thats why Eakins moved to the AHL.
I guess I didn't finish my thought. I see Cronin or Gordon being head coach, and Eakins as Assistant with the Leafs.
I guess I didn't finish my thought. I see Cronin or Gordon being head coach, and Eakins as Assistant with the Leafs.
I think it will be the other way around. Gordon or Cronin will take the Marlies and eakins will take over the big club. Eakins has earned it and has been integral in building this team from the ground up. I think Burke will interview all of them before he even considers re signing Wilson. He is keeping his options open imo. If none of them show promise and interview poorly, we might see many more years of wilson.
You also forgot to address my point, but since you don't seem to have one in retort, we get this turd.
What's the point in addressing your point when you chose to misstate mine. I did not say it was all about the special teams. You might not be aware of this, but goals against apply whether a team is playing shorthanded, at equal strength or on the man advantage. Try concentrating when your read.
Then Wilson's SJ results are an even more colossal failure to use that standard.
SJ was stacked when Wilson was the coach. They were supposed to win the cup with not even trying. BUT RW failed to even get this team past the 1st round. Result, he was fired.
Why is it different here in Toronto? He has managed to miss the playoffs every season he has been here. Add two bottom 5 finishes. Worst PK in the league for 3 years. Voted the #1 most hated/undesirable coach to play for by the players all over the NHL.
Don't look at this on a 1 games basis. Just because the Leafs win a game or 2. He has lost 8 out of the last 12 games.
The Leafs would benefit from a coaching change for sure. BUT Burke is protecting his college friend to the end.
SJ was stacked when Wilson was the coach. They were supposed to win the cup with not even trying. BUT RW failed to even get this team past the 1st round. Result, he was fired.
The only season he failed to win a round was his first year, so he wasn't fired for failing to get past te 2nd round.
SJ was stacked when Wilson was the coach. They were supposed to win the cup with not even trying. BUT RW failed to even get this team past the 1st round. Result, he was fired.
2002-2003 Out of playoffs (mid-season replacement)
2003-2004 Lost in conference final
2004-2005 Lockout
2005-2006 Lost in 2nd round
2006-2007 Lost in 2nd round
2007-2008 Lost in 2nd round
SJ was stacked when Wilson was the coach. They were supposed to win the cup with not even trying. BUT RW failed to even get this team past the 1st round. Result, he was fired.
Why is it different here in Toronto? He has managed to miss the playoffs every season he has been here. Add two bottom 5 finishes. Worst PK in the league for 3 years. Voted the #1 most hated/undesirable coach to play for by the players all over the NHL.
Don't look at this on a 1 games basis. Just because the Leafs win a game or 2. He has lost 8 out of the last 12 games.
The Leafs would benefit from a coaching change for sure. BUT Burke is protecting his college friend to the end.
As Ulf said on the other Wilson thread, all a coach is measured to is wins and losses. Not the opinion based argument whether his is a good developmental coach or that his players work hard for him. Stats/facts carry far more weight in the real world, whether this applies to hockey or life. The facts are Leafs have the worst PK 4 years running, a substandard defensive record/system and poor results. The Wilson apologists will cling to the developmental angle, this is a waste of time arguing. My favorite colour is blue, try arguing that. It's not possible, it's an opinion. Try arguing worst pk, missed the playoffs 3 years straight. It's concrete, it's fact.
As Ulf said on the other Wilson thread, all a coach is measured to is wins and losses. Not the opinion based argument whether his is a good developmental coach or that his players work hard for him. Stats/facts carry far more weight in the real world, whether this applies to hockey or life. The facts are Leafs have the worst PK 4 years running, a substandard defensive record/system and poor results. The Wilson apologists will cling to the developmental angle, this is a waste of time arguing. My favorite colour is blue, try arguing that. It's not possible, it's an opinion. Try arguing worst pk, missed the playoffs 3 years straight. It's concrete, it's fact.
It is a very naive way to look at building a team and evaluating a coach.
2002-2003 Out of playoffs (mid-season replacement)
2003-2004 Lost in conference final
2004-2005 Lockout
2005-2006 Lost in 2nd round
2006-2007 Lost in 2nd round
2007-2008 Lost in 2nd round
He never made it out of the 1st round?
Lost in 2nd rd is the prevailing theme, Out of Playoffs in 02-03, lost in rd 1 in 99-00 and 00-01. His teams fail in playoff hockey far more than they succeed. Want his PK record also, I posted those stats also this week, they are shockingly bad.
It is a very naive way to look at building a team and evaluating a coach.
It's more naive ignoring stats, but saying that I have watched almost every Leafs game played the last 4 years, when you apply stats and actually witnessing how this team plays, it's easy to form a judgement that Wilson while not a bad coach, he is very mediocre as his record indicates through 20+ years of coaching.
