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Montreal Worst Team In Canada:Damien Cox

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Old
12-25-2011, 11:17 AM
  #51
sheed36
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Originally Posted by Habs23 View Post
Damien Cox is the worst sports writer in Canada, and a known Habs hater. But we are actually the worst team in Canada.
+1

My thoughts exactly.. He is right though about the Habs being the worst team in Canada right now. No direction or leadership and in utter chaos at the moment..

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12-25-2011, 11:42 AM
  #52
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Cox is defiantly a big Cox sucker, but it's hard to argue this article (fair warning I didn't read it, just going by title). The Habs are approaching Florida/Columbus area of team management, this team is going to get ugly IMO.

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12-25-2011, 11:47 AM
  #53
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Why are sports journalists such a bunch of nerds these days? It's unreal. They seem like a bunch of tightass guys who think they are above everything even though they have experienced zip. Whatever happened to the real sports journalists who were more in the down and dirty nitty gritty, who knew what was going on on the ground, who knew the athletes personaly and wouldn't just make something up?

More importantly the old school journalists were passionate about the sport while the new ones seem to spend their time denigrating the sport.

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12-25-2011, 11:49 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Tricolore#20 View Post
Hard to dispute. The most depressing aspect of our team is that we have so many relatively long-term contracts being used on underachieving players, who are past their prime (Gomez/Markov/Gionta/Cammalleri/Kaberle). It will take several years to get out of this gutter.
yup, management fked up , now its a few more years of futility

could be a blessing in disguise , a few top picks and if our kids can develop quickly the pain may not be as bad

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12-25-2011, 11:51 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Magic33 View Post
You can't actually believe that?

In fact, in my opinion, Martin was the only thing keeping this team afloat for the last few years. People think we should be a run and gun type of team but we actually don't have the horses for that. We needed to play that defensive system and it worked for most of the time he was here. They're just not that good of a team, you just need to take off your Geoff Molson rose colored glasses!
We have several top 6 forwards. Pacioretty, Plekanec, AK, Gionta, Cammalleri, Cole and if he didn't suck, Gomez. We're not a bad team on paper, but we're obviously lacking a balance to the line-up or an environment to get most out of said players.

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12-25-2011, 12:00 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Tricolore#20 View Post
Hard to dispute. The most depressing aspect of our team is that we have so many relatively long-term contracts being used on underachieving players, who are past their prime (Gomez/Markov/Gionta/Cammalleri/Kaberle). It will take several years to get out of this gutter.
It's depressing, and it's been like that for years and years. What's to tell me that they won't hire more washed up veterans so we can continue finish 8th-10th every year when the current crop expires?

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12-25-2011, 12:00 PM
  #57
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I can't drink enough booze to get myself out of this.. We suck

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12-25-2011, 12:03 PM
  #58
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I can't drink enough booze to get myself out of this.. We suck
let's tank!

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12-25-2011, 12:34 PM
  #59
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The truth hurts...coming from a Toronto sports writer, it's ******* excruciating.

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12-25-2011, 12:35 PM
  #60
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So what? We don't need to compare ourselves to any kind of category of team to know this is boring talentless team anyway.

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12-25-2011, 12:44 PM
  #61
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The defense with the exception of Emelin is way too soft, then we have the midgets, too many. This team is skilled but way too small and soft.

get rid of gomez, cammy, gio, desharnais, darche, kaberle, gill, weber, diaz.

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12-25-2011, 01:40 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Young Gun View Post
I agree on Ellar, people have him overrated on the board, looks good but no finish, translates into no points. He steps it up or gets shipped out !!
You can't spell his name. You can't give your opinion ! ZERO credibility.

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12-25-2011, 02:27 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by pelletier666 View Post
Cox is a known Habs hater and Leafs homer. The Habs would be first in the Eastern Conference and he would be posting such crap.
You obviously haven't read many of his articles over the years.
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Originally Posted by Roy33Clutch View Post
Damien Cox is a horsecrap writer. He seriously is pathetic, jumping at the chance to kick us while were down. Uninformed garbage as usual (and im not just referring to when he writes about the habs). While im ranting same goes for jack todd or whatever his name is haha
What's your problem with the article? The Habs have hit a wall after a series of panic moves. He's dead on in this article.
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Originally Posted by FiveForDrawingBlood View Post
i noticed years before cox has a blind hatred for the habs. he is known to jab the habs at every chance. a few years ago he was a kick about habs winnning cups because we had sole access to french players
Show us the link.
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Originally Posted by JGRB View Post
Patrick Roy would light a fire under their ***** so hot it would singe their ass hairs off.
Yeah... and wouldn't that just be great. If you think things are bad now, just add Patrick Roy. Iceberg meet Titanic.
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Originally Posted by Erik Estrada View Post
Remember when the Leafs were falling apart under John Ferguson Jr. a few years back... They were picked on by every sports writer in Canada...

It was like watching a car accident in slow motion... It's our turn...
Exactly. We've hit a wall and the article is very timely with all the chaos that's going on.

We still have time to turn it around but things look bleak at the moment.
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Originally Posted by Habs23 View Post
Keep in Mind that Cox is the same writer that said he hates Habs fans, on a trip to the Equator he was disturbed that he saw a guy with a Habs Tee-Shirt & had that printed in the Toronto Sun. saying were everywhere & seemed like it ruined his vacation.

Leafs fans Love to crap on Montreal, it's our war let us Montreal'ers fight it!
Yeah right... I hear he likes to pull the wings off birds too.

We've sucked. Don't shoot the messanger.
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Originally Posted by sheed36 View Post
+1

My thoughts exactly.. He is right though about the Habs being the worst team in Canada right now. No direction or leadership and in utter chaos at the moment..
Absolutely correct. If we don't want to see these kinds of articles, then we should build better teams. These articles get written about poor teams all the time. We just happen to fall into that category right now unfortunately.

And a typo on one of our younger 3rd line players doesn't change anything.

Oh btw, Merry Christmas everyone!

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Old
12-25-2011, 03:12 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
Jacques Martin destroyed all moral in the lockeroom. Give them some time to get their bearings.
Markov being out way longer then originally expected and the team missing 3rd line veteran checking center is what killed this team.

The team couldnt score early on the pp and unable to hold out in close games late because they didn't have the depth. If those players were in place JM is probably still coach.

I read the article it makes good points, its very interesting the fine line teams like Montreal on the bubble walk, doesnt take much to push them into a bad season, once the media and morale gets down its hard to fight back.

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Old
12-25-2011, 03:14 PM
  #65
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Can someone explain to me what is so bad about the Habs' situation?

Sometimes for whatever reason a season goes poorly, that doesn't negate all of the good things about the Habs at all, yet some people try to make it seem that way.

It's really bizarre.

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12-25-2011, 04:02 PM
  #66
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I'm no fan of Cox... guy is a terrible writer plain and simple... but hard to disagree with much, if any, of what he said.


going into the holiday break, habs are last (tied with Edm, who have 2 games in hand) as far as canadian teams in the NHL go.

we have a simmering controversy over the language issue adding pressure and negativity to an already scrambling team.

we've got a roster full of either injury-prone or underperforming (or both) veteran players, none of which have played anywhere near elite level hockey (minus ~20 PO games for cammy) despite being paid that way.

we've got some decent prospects in the organization, but no clear-cut future "stars" /blue-chippers.

our best young talent has been doing ok (Price, Subban, MaxPac, Eller), but 2 of them were benched going into the holidays.



our team & our organization is downright pathetic right now. Forget Mediocre, we've dropped even below that level.

until the team either picks it up, or ownership gets a clue and gets rid of the awful management team that has presided over this mess, no reason to argue with anyone saying that the habs are in the worst situation of all the canadian teams... it's true.

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12-25-2011, 04:04 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
I'm no fan of Cox... guy is a terrible writer plain and simple... but hard to disagree with much, if any, of what he said.


going into the holiday break, habs are last (tied with Edm, who have 2 games in hand) as far as canadian teams in the NHL go.

we have a simmering controversy over the language issue adding pressure and negativity to an already scrambling team.

we've got a roster full of either injury-prone or underperforming (or both) veteran players, none of which have played anywhere near elite level hockey (minus ~20 PO games for cammy) despite being paid that way.

we've got some decent prospects in the organization, but no clear-cut future "stars" /blue-chippers.

our best young talent has been doing ok (Price, Subban, MaxPac, Eller), but 2 of them were benched going into the holidays.



our team & our organization is downright pathetic right now. Forget Mediocre, we've dropped even below that level.

until the team either picks it up, or ownership gets a clue and gets rid of the awful management team that has presided over this mess, no reason to argue with anyone saying that the habs are in the worst situation of all the canadian teams... it's true.
LoL @ the doom and gloom some people have.

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12-25-2011, 04:21 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by UniverStalinGraduate View Post
LoL @ the doom and gloom some people have.
?

what doom and gloom...

Reality is sometimes hard to face, but ignoring it is useless (mind you, they do say "ignorance is bliss")



habs are 25th in the league (with 2 teams below them having games in hand)
habs are 12th in the conference (with 2 teams below them having games in hand)

habs are 6 pts out of a playoff spot

habs are tied for worst of the canadian teams, but Edm has games in hand

habs have created a hornets nest of controversy in the local/provincial media

habs have no player in the top-40 for pts


those are the facts, wether you like them or not.

With those facts in mind, it is not "doom and gloom" to articulate that, at the 2011 X-mas break, the habs are in the worst situation of the Canadian teams, at least as far as this season goes.

looking at beyond, it is more debatable, but some factors playing against us:
- worst contract situation of cdn teams (more money tied up in underperforming players than any other canadian team beyond this season)
- arguably, with calgary, the thinnest high-end prospect group
- very difficult cap situation fast approaching with several key assets needing new deals and limited cap space given terrible veteran contracts on the books



now, a great manager could certainly work with what he have and right the ship pretty quickly...

price, subban, maxpac, eller give the team a very solid core of talented young pieces to build around.

even a good manager could probably work his way out of the cap mess we're floating towards...

but we do not have that person in place currently, and the guy "advising" our ownership on how to proceed, is the same guy who built this sinking ship (before handing it off to his equally ineffective underling) in teh first place.


doom and gloom? meh, it's the holidays and besides there is more than enough crap in the world to get upset about a hockey team...

but just because one prefers ignorance to honesty, doesn't change the facts of the situation.

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12-25-2011, 04:25 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
?

what doom and gloom...

Reality is sometimes hard to face, but ignoring it is useless (mind you, they do say "ignorance is bliss")



habs are 25th in the league (with 2 teams below them having games in hand)
habs are 12th in the conference (with 2 teams below them having games in hand)

habs are 6 pts out of a playoff spot

habs are tied for worst of the canadian teams, but Edm has games in hand

habs have created a hornets nest of controversy in the local/provincial media

habs have no player in the top-40 for pts


those are the facts, wether you like them or not.

With those facts in mind, it is not "doom and gloom" to articulate that, at the 2011 X-mas break, the habs are in the worst situation of the Canadian teams, at least as far as this season goes.

looking at beyond, it is more debatable, but some factors playing against us:
- worst contract situation of cdn teams (more money tied up in underperforming players than any other canadian team beyond this season)
- arguably, with calgary, the thinnest high-end prospect group
- very difficult cap situation fast approaching with several key assets needing new deals and limited cap space given terrible veteran contracts on the books



now, a great manager could certainly work with what he have and right the ship pretty quickly...

price, subban, maxpac, eller give the team a very solid core of talented young pieces to build around.

even a good manager could probably work his way out of the cap mess we're floating towards...

but we do not have that person in place currently, and the guy "advising" our ownership on how to proceed, is the same guy who built this sinking ship (before handing it off to his equally ineffective underling) in teh first place.


doom and gloom? meh, it's the holidays and besides there is more than enough crap in the world to get upset about a hockey team...

but just because one prefers ignorance to honesty, doesn't change the facts of the situation.

So one offseason and things are an undisputable disaster?

You say yourself they have a good young core in place, what is so bad about the Habs situation moving forward? Every year 14 teams in the league miss the playoffs. Since the lockout the Habs have made the playoffs more often than not.

Gauthier has made several very good moves and everytime I ask for examples of all the awful moves it's just malarkie I get as an answer. Meaningless crap that proves nothing.

I love where this team is headed in the future and would be more than happy if Gauthie was the man leading them.

The habs might be lacking blue chip high end prsopects, but they have several guys ALREADY producing and they actually have a pretty sweet little group of guys not in the NHL yet...and when you combine that with the possibilities they have this season and offseason the group could look unbelievably imrpessive.

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12-25-2011, 04:27 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by UniverStalinGraduate View Post
Can someone explain to me what is so bad about the Habs' situation?

Sometimes for whatever reason a season goes poorly, that doesn't negate all of the good things about the Habs at all, yet some people try to make it seem that way.

It's really bizarre.
It's not too bad. Most of our long term contracts end in 2 years anyway. The only issue is moving those contracts for younger talent so we can build a new core. That's the biggest difficulty here. The rest isn't a big deal, it's external stuff like a billingual coach which has zero to do with product on the ice. Not to mention, season not over either.

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12-25-2011, 04:31 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
It's not too bad. Most of our long term contracts end in 2 years anyway. The only issue is moving those contracts for younger talent so we can build a new core. That's the biggest difficulty here. The rest isn't a big deal, it's external stuff like a billingual coach which has zero to do with product on the ice. Not to mention, season not over either.
Yep, the only 2 contracts that aren't over in 2 years time after this season are Cole (GREAT addition, why doesn't PG get any credit for that?) and Plekanec (great signing, again I wonder why he gets no credit for that) neither of whom are a problem for this team at all.

Cap issues can be dealt with in a variety of ways, that's why these guys get paid the big bucks. Are we really hanging our hats on the fact that Montreal is terrible and doomed to suffer through psuedo mediocrity for now and forever more because they have some underachieving guys making big money who are off the books in 2 seasons time?

Asinine, simply asinine.

Also, to add to that...as inconsistent as Gionta and Cammalleri are at times, they could both be dealt for a decent return (nothing spectacular mind you, but some good pieces coming back) which would both clear up cap space and improve the teams future.

Gomez is awful, no denying that...but they took a risk on him and it didn't pay off. Sucks that mcD had to be given up, but it's hardly the worst trade ever. Defence is one of the habs biggest strengths now I think.

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12-25-2011, 04:50 PM
  #72
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Yep, the only 2 contracts that aren't over in 2 years time after this season are Cole (GREAT addition, why doesn't PG get any credit for that?) and Plekanec (great signing, again I wonder why he gets no credit for that) neither of whom are a problem for this team at all.

Cap issues can be dealt with in a variety of ways, that's why these guys get paid the big bucks. Are we really hanging our hats on the fact that Montreal is terrible and doomed to suffer through psuedo mediocrity for now and forever more because they have some underachieving guys making big money who are off the books in 2 seasons time?

Asinine, simply asinine.

Also, to add to that...as inconsistent as Gionta and Cammalleri are at times, they could both be dealt for a decent return (nothing spectacular mind you, but some good pieces coming back) which would both clear up cap space and improve the teams future.

Gomez is awful, no denying that...but they took a risk on him and it didn't pay off. Sucks that mcD had to be given up, but it's hardly the worst trade ever. Defence is one of the habs biggest strengths now I think.
I agree with you 100%. My only wish is that we take these veterans move them for younger players to try and speed the retool process. I don't think the current contracts are the end of the world, but if we have trouble maintaining consistency with these players, we should retool accordingly. It happens all the time in sports. There's cycles and in this case, we can probably be competitive on a decent year with this core, but we'll never be top of the league, so take the young talent you have and seek out the correct players to compliment them or add to the core. For instance, adding a legit top line center in a Eric Staal, Getzlaf, etc...(although unavailable) would change the dynamic of the team already but that's my opinion. I just hope the guys making the big bucks realize we have a lot of assets that will help us down the road and all we need is to surround the paciorettys, subbans, price and so on with other strong talent. Easier said than done, but this issue is no different than many other teams in the league missing a 1st line center, a top pairing d or a starting goalie. We're experiencing something(on ice product) that even a team like Philly did. They were a good team, had a bad year, retooled and got picks and got JVR and company going forward. They recognized it wasn't their year and prepared for the future, that's the only thing I can realistically ask from management. The rest? Just details like language issues.

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12-25-2011, 05:02 PM
  #73
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I agree with you 100%. My only wish is that we take these veterans move them for younger players to try and speed the retool process. I don't think the current contracts are the end of the world, but if we have trouble maintaining consistency with these players, we should retool accordingly. It happens all the time in sports. There's cycles and in this case, we can probably be competitive on a decent year with this core, but we'll never be top of the league, so take the young talent you have and seek out the correct players to compliment them or add to the core. For instance, adding a legit top line center in a Eric Staal, Getzlaf, etc...(although unavailable) would change the dynamic of the team already but that's my opinion. I just hope the guys making the big bucks realize we have a lot of assets that will help us down the road and all we need is to surround the paciorettys, subbans, price and so on with other strong talent. Easier said than done, but this issue is no different than many other teams in the league missing a 1st line center, a top pairing d or a starting goalie. We're experiencing something(on ice product) that even a team like Philly did. They were a good team, had a bad year, retooled and got picks and got JVR and company going forward. They recognized it wasn't their year and prepared for the future, that's the only thing I can realistically ask from management. The rest? Just details like language issues.
Agreed LL, I'm a bit worried about them moving out some picks/prsopects for a quick fix...but historically the habs haven't done that at all. Sure they moved a 2nd and a 5th for Wizniewski but that was a 2nd in a pretty weak draft year AND they addressed a sore need. This year they had a serious need and addressed it in the Kaberle/Spacek deal.

Which brings up another amusing thing, people talk about the poor asset management, and how that was such a desperation move...yet we always complain about moving out picks and prospects and here we moved out a 38 year old injury prone d-man for a 33 year old d-man with far more offensive capabilities. Signed at a fairly reasonable price as well.

If the Habs had traded a d-man they signed just in the Summer who had gotten off to a rought start, for a depth d-man in return people would have been up in arms about the poor return, selling low, blah blah blah...but how much praise have we seen for the Habs taking advantage of a situation where Carolina desparately wanted out of that contract?

If on the off chance Markov comes back and is a highly effective player, one of him or Kaberle becomes pretty attractive trade bait.

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12-25-2011, 05:19 PM
  #74
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Agreed LL, I'm a bit worried about them moving out some picks/prsopects for a quick fix...but historically the habs haven't done that at all. Sure they moved a 2nd and a 5th for Wizniewski but that was a 2nd in a pretty weak draft year AND they addressed a sore need. This year they had a serious need and addressed it in the Kaberle/Spacek deal.

Which brings up another amusing thing, people talk about the poor asset management, and how that was such a desperation move...yet we always complain about moving out picks and prospects and here we moved out a 38 year old injury prone d-man for a 33 year old d-man with far more offensive capabilities. Signed at a fairly reasonable price as well.

If the Habs had traded a d-man they signed just in the Summer who had gotten off to a rought start, for a depth d-man in return people would have been up in arms about the poor return, selling low, blah blah blah...but how much praise have we seen for the Habs taking advantage of a situation where Carolina desparately wanted out of that contract?

If on the off chance Markov comes back and is a highly effective player, one of him or Kaberle becomes pretty attractive trade bait.
Personally I like Kaberle and i'm obviously excited about possibility of having 3 top offensive d-man who play different styles in kaberle, markov and subban. That's a lethal combo. So in a sense, i'm not concerned. However, that being said, we cannot deny the kaberle trade was a risk. It worked out decently for us(for now) and I can't really argue it but doesn't mean it didn't have a risk factor.

To be honest with you, i'm not concerned about management trading away assets. Historically Gainey and Gauthier rarely give up firsts or top prospects. Okay a 1st for tanguay, mcdonagh in gomez trade...not much else. A few 2nds here and there but the wiz helped us out, so did moore, so no big deal. What i'm concerned about is management failing to address the direction this team is going. I consider "the moves you didn't make" also reflective on management performance. Not signing X player at a high cap hit may be a good thing, but letting guys go at the right cap is also a bad thing. In this case, failing to retool would be an issue for me. Status quo isn't the way to go here. Montreal has the potential to get in some younger talent and replace cammy and company with guys(currently headed for UFA/RFA market) in weber, suter, parise, semin, doan, hemsky, etc... Granted, some we value more than others but there is some talented projected to be there come july 1st. Most will re-sign, but there will be a few leftover. Case in point, look at the Rivet trade, we got pacioretty and gorges for a UFA. I'm no hockey guru, but i'd like to see more of that. In a salary cap world, young nhl ready talent on a good contract is a premium. If you can get that and create depth and upside in a young core, then acquiring the veteran support as UFA shouldn't be an issue. Doing nothing can be criticized too IMO.

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12-25-2011, 05:23 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
Personally I like Kaberle and i'm obviously excited about possibility of having 3 top offensive d-man who play different styles in kaberle, markov and subban. That's a lethal combo. So in a sense, i'm not concerned. However, that being said, we cannot deny the kaberle trade was a risk. It worked out decently for us(for now) and I can't really argue it but doesn't mean it didn't have a risk factor.

To be honest with you, i'm not concerned about management trading away assets. Historically Gainey and Gauthier rarely give up firsts or top prospects. Okay a 1st for tanguay, mcdonagh in gomez trade...not much else. A few 2nds here and there but the wiz helped us out, so did moore, so no big deal. What i'm concerned about is management failing to address the direction this team is going. I consider "the moves you didn't make" also reflective on management performance. Not signing X player at a high cap hit may be a good thing, but letting guys go at the right cap is also a bad thing. In this case, failing to retool would be an issue for me. Status quo isn't the way to go here. Montreal has the potential to get in some younger talent and replace cammy and company with guys(currently headed for UFA/RFA market) in weber, suter, parise, semin, doan, hemsky, etc... Granted, some we value more than others but there is some talented projected to be there come july 1st. Most will re-sign, but there will be a few leftover. Case in point, look at the Rivet trade, we got pacioretty and gorges for a UFA. I'm no hockey guru, but i'd like to see more of that. In a salary cap world, young nhl ready talent on a good contract is a premium. If you can get that and create depth and upside in a young core, then acquiring the veteran support as UFA shouldn't be an issue. Doing nothing can be criticized too IMO.
I dunno LL, I don't see the big risk, Give up no assets and add a guy for 3 years at 4.25. Not super long term, he's very durable something this team could certainly use, he's a very bright offensive player.

My problem currently is Campoli. He has no business being in the line up. To me the habs need to trade Gill and Campoli both, one because there's no spot for him and the other because he's a proven playoff warrior.

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