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Del Zotto Quietly leading Team in +/- (among the league leaders)

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Old
12-24-2011, 10:13 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
I agree that the stat itself is somewhat misleading, but nobody can argue against the fact that Del Zotto has been fantastic on the defensive side of the puck this year. He's really playing excellent 3-zone hockey.
Totally agree, but we don't need a silly stat to tell us that, that's all.

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12-24-2011, 10:36 PM
  #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zuccarello Awesome View Post
I like how when a player has a bad plus/minus, we dismiss the stat as useless (which it really is in most cases), but when one of our players has one of the best plus/minus ratings in the league, we get excited and devote a thread to it. Typical HF.
Malik being the exception that guy was a plus machine yet universally hated ( although my father and myself before giving up our tickets understood his playing against top players always and his very underrated first pass )

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12-24-2011, 10:59 PM
  #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zuccarello Awesome View Post
I like how when a player has a bad plus/minus, we dismiss the stat as useless (which it really is in most cases), but when one of our players has one of the best plus/minus ratings in the league, we get excited and devote a thread to it. Typical HF.
I agree that +/- aren't good indicators of good defensive play, however, they do mean a little something when a guy has been a - player for his two previous seasons, and then becomes a +22 player. That's a pretty drastic change from a -20 and -5.

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12-25-2011, 12:02 AM
  #104
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You know, it's funny how people inside and outside of hockey say they discount +/- but in the years I worked in hockey I never found hockey people discounting it. Taken in context, absolutely, but a stat everyone (including the players) knew. I remember one player complaining bitterly about getting a minus he felt he didn't deserve.

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12-25-2011, 12:58 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by ecemleafs View Post
Del Zotto will be one of those perennial AHL all stars but never play an NHL game.
LMAO.
I knew he'd get it back together, but I didn't think it'd be this quickly, or even necessarily with this organization. I really feared us trading him and then him developing elsewhere. Glad to see the organization show patience.

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12-25-2011, 01:46 AM
  #106
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It's a damn good thing folks in the Org. kept their collective cool with this kid. It's impossible to say what would have happened had they given up on him. I'm glad we'll never have to find out. Major embarrassment averted, IMO.

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12-25-2011, 07:33 AM
  #107
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Personally I think the +/- stat is very useful. It's a way of gauging even strength play. I'd assume most people would have some context for it--like we know that Girardi and McDonagh having lower +/- but also play against other team's best lines/players--but MDZ has solidified himself on the second pairing and is facing good players and getting lots of ice time--he's only 21 and whether you pay attention to the stat or not his defensive play has improved dramatically.

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12-25-2011, 08:44 PM
  #108
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I think +/- is only misleading if you do not consider the complete context in which the statistic is derived and in order to draw any conclusions from +/-, it's vital to be familiar with the player's performances in any given season, the player's teammates' play, and how the player gets utilized on the ice at even strength...

Ranger fans being familiar with how MDZ has performed this season can look at his +/- and conclude that he has been a large factor in contributing to that +/-....

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12-26-2011, 01:20 AM
  #109
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I have to admit I've always been a bit confused by the stat and the controversy surrounding it. A stat indicating a comparison between the number of times a player is on the ice for a goal against vs a goal for. Seems that could be important, no? I often see people saying the stat means nothing. If that's the case why does the NHL follow it so closely?

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12-26-2011, 01:25 AM
  #110
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The only thing +/- is useful for is the swings. You can see when a player improves/gets worse when his +/- REALLY swings one way or another. I mean, sometimes that is the team play there, but massive swings tend to at least give a small clue.

It's a relatively useless stat, but you may scrape some tiny bit of value from the depths with it.

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Old
12-26-2011, 03:14 AM
  #111
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Del Zotto is now 3rd in the league with a +22 ( behind Seguin and Marchand)

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12-27-2011, 12:03 AM
  #112
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You don't often see such incredibly quick transformations. Kudos to the team for creating the factors that led to his improvement. He is playing like a star the last 3 weeks, and pretty well before that. This month, he's added offensive presence 5-on-5 to the incredibly rapid improvement in defense and already adequate (now better) power play minutes. He made some Leetchesque moves tonight. He's picking his spots at the right times, and he isn't sacrificing positioning to make risky plays. He's even decreased the stupid hit chasing. Impressive. Keep it up, MDZ!

Tortorella, Gernander, Sullivan, Clark, Gorton, Richards, Callahan, whoever else has played a big part in this, the people he trains with in the summer...bravo, folks. I always had my doubts about Del Zotto. Never disliked the pick, but was a bit skeptical. His play last year was dreadful. Now, he's playing much better than the rookie season. Let's see if he sustains it, but if he does...that's a great pick. He's looking like a top offensive defenseman. He looks far more focused, his head is in the game now. You can tell from the performance and even from the looks on his face, IMO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbop View Post
You know, it's funny how people inside and outside of hockey say they discount +/- but in the years I worked in hockey I never found hockey people discounting it. Taken in context, absolutely, but a stat everyone (including the players) knew. I remember one player complaining bitterly about getting a minus he felt he didn't deserve.
It's definitely a useful stat. If everyone understood how to take it in context, there wouldn't be any discrepancies. If you take any player's plus/minus, and analyze the circumstances surrounding the player, you should be able to see if the rating is misleading or not for that player. Once in a blue moon, there are exceptions to the rule. There are definitely players who are as good as the plus/minus stat indicates for them, just as there are players who are definitely not as bad as their plus/minus would indicate.

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12-27-2011, 12:33 AM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pizza View Post
I have to admit I've always been a bit confused by the stat and the controversy surrounding it. A stat indicating a comparison between the number of times a player is on the ice for a goal against vs a goal for. Seems that could be important, no? I often see people saying the stat means nothing. If that's the case why does the NHL follow it so closely?
Seems like a situation with confirmation bias, IMO. People say it's useless, although it's generally helpful. Then, when there's one wacky situation with a player whose +/- is totally out of whack, they say "Well, see? It's totally useless."

Regardless, MDZ's high +/- is no fluke. He's dominating on both sides of the puck. Controlling play, being physical, and making things happen.

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12-27-2011, 12:40 AM
  #114
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+/- is excellent when used in context, mainly when there is a huge discrepancy between the team's overall goal differential and a player's +/-. Like Jack Johnson for example.

MDZ's +/- is excellent, but it's just as indicative of the team's overall two-way play as it is his play. Not to say it isn't impressive given his career prior to this year, but I don't like proclaiming it because of the +/-, He's on the ice alot, and this team is scoring more goals than not at a consistent rate.

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12-27-2011, 01:24 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Zenith View Post
+/- is excellent when used in context, mainly when there is a huge discrepancy between the team's overall goal differential and a player's +/-. Like Jack Johnson for example.

MDZ's +/- is excellent, but it's just as indicative of the team's overall two-way play as it is his play. Not to say it isn't impressive given his career prior to this year, but I don't like proclaiming it because of the +/-, He's on the ice alot, and this team is scoring more goals than not at a consistent rate.
I really don't know what to make of his +25 rating. It is really an incredible figure, considering he's not the most defensive minded blueliner.

To me, what's really puzzling is that no one else on this team is even close to that figure. And that's strange. Although his defense partner, Stralman has a +10 in only 11 games played. Step is second on the team with a +13.

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12-27-2011, 03:49 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by ohbaby View Post
I really don't know what to make of his +25 rating. It is really an incredible figure, considering he's not the most defensive minded blueliner.

To me, what's really puzzling is that no one else on this team is even close to that figure. And that's strange. Although his defense partner, Stralman has a +10 in only 11 games played. Step is second on the team with a +13.
Hagelin is +11 in 16 games, too.

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12-27-2011, 07:11 AM
  #117
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I guess we'll use this as the MDZ general thread.

I still can't believe how ridiculous he was last night. He created two of the three of our goals. He didn't get fluky assists, and even though he didn't get the primary assist on the one where he deked Nielsen, that was all him. Hags' second one, he came deep into the zone and made a crisp pass through traffic right onto his stick.

Like i've said in the past, we're winning games because our defense is contributing to our offense. It gives our offense multiple dimensions. And now not only is he making ridiculous plays in the offensive zone, he's GOOD, even great sometimes- not bad, not average, GOOD- in the defensive zone.

This kid is special.


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12-27-2011, 07:51 AM
  #118
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MDZ in October and November:

8 points in 21 games, +8

MDZ in December:

13 points in 13 games, +17

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12-27-2011, 08:37 AM
  #119
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Originally Posted by ohbaby View Post
I really don't know what to make of his +25 rating. It is really an incredible figure, considering he's not the most defensive minded blueliner.

To me, what's really puzzling is that no one else on this team is even close to that figure. And that's strange. Although his defense partner, Stralman has a +10 in only 11 games played. Step is second on the team with a +13.
Sauer was his partner for much of the season and he is +9. Add that to Stralman and you start to get close. And that makes sense because Sauer (I think) led Rangers in +/- last year.

Don't sell MDZ short defensively. He's been very good although he is generally spared matching up with other teams' top lines. He reminds me of Mattheu Schneider -- he plays much better when he plays with an edge.

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Old
12-27-2011, 08:45 AM
  #120
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#SeenDelZotto?

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12-27-2011, 08:45 AM
  #121
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For anyone not impressed by the +/- stat:
Quote:
Del Zotto has been on the ice for 54 of the Blueshirts’ 101 goals. He’s been on for 37 of 75 even-strength goals, 14 of 21 power-play goals and three of five shorthanded goals. It’s an astonishing stat for the third-year pro who is averaging 22:42 per game.
Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/range...#ixzz1hkLCNhcR

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12-27-2011, 09:12 AM
  #122
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DZ's +/- is very indicative of his play thus far. He is always involved in whatever offense is being generated, and like I've said earlier it's the defensive side of his game that's been outstanding.

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12-27-2011, 09:46 AM
  #123
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I hate judging Dmen by stats....especially when talking about their defensive responsibility

the only real test, imo, is the eye ball test...watching how the he plays away from the puck, watching how often he needs to be bailed out by his teammates, watching his play in front of the net, watching his ability to break up plays

and even if he had a negative +/- right now, id still be saying that Del Zotto has passed the eyeball test with flying colors thus far this season

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Old
12-27-2011, 10:24 AM
  #124
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guy will still be 21 years old well after this season comes to a close. And he will already have 200 NHL games and around 80-90 points under his belt. As a Defenseman.

The number of players who can say that you could probably count on your hands. Kid is going to be good for a while.

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12-27-2011, 11:27 AM
  #125
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I wouldn't trade MDZ right now for the most overrated player in the league, Drew Doughty.

MDZ 4eva

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