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Habs lose again 4-0

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Old
12-25-2011, 05:23 PM
  #351
MathMan
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The big problem is that the Habs were basically collapsing under multiple injuries, and Martin's juggling was basically holding the whole thing together about as well as he could hope to, and the Habs were slowly inching in the standings as a result, ready to get going again when one or two players came off IR.

Then he was fired and replaced by a guy who believes that the best way to help a shorthanded roster is to make it more shorthanded.

The most amazing thing, to me, quite beyond rolling four lines and silly scratchings and this odd Blunden fetish, is how little Cunneyworth seems to be aware of why Martin did what he did. He was right there!

Why would he keep Martin's lines and jumble their roles? It only makes sense to use Moen on the Plekanec line if they're going to be your primary defensive unit. If you are going to give them offensive draws, use Kostitsyn!

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12-25-2011, 05:27 PM
  #352
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Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
The big problem is that the Habs were basically collapsing under multiple injuries, and Martin's juggling was basically holding the whole thing together about as well as he could hope to, and the Habs were slowly inching in the standings as a result, ready to get going again when one or two players came off IR.

Then he was fired and replaced by a guy who believes that the best way to help a shorthanded roster is to make it more shorthanded.

The most amazing thing, to me, quite beyond rolling four lines and silly scratchings and this odd Blunden fetish, is how little Cunneyworth seems to be aware of why Martin did what he did. He was right there!

Why would he keep Martin's lines and jumble their roles? It only makes sense to use Moen on the Plekanec line if they're going to be your primary defensive unit. If you are going to give them offensive draws, use Kostitsyn!
Martin's not coming back...give it up already.

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12-25-2011, 06:16 PM
  #353
MathMan
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Martin's not coming back...give it up already.
So? I think it's relevant to point out the differences between what he did and what Cunneyworth does, so we can understand why he's failing and what qualities will be required of the (one hopes) soon-to-be-named successor.

Also, understanding the situation the Habs were and are still in, and how a skilled coach might handle it and what he might hope to accomplish, is very relevant. And why the new guy isn't managing as much.

As is understanding the consequences of the change of coach and why they are happening.

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Old
12-25-2011, 09:28 PM
  #354
Lafleurs Guy
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Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
The big problem is that the Habs were basically collapsing under multiple injuries, and Martin's juggling was basically holding the whole thing together about as well as he could hope to, and the Habs were slowly inching in the standings as a result, ready to get going again when one or two players came off IR.

Then he was fired and replaced by a guy who believes that the best way to help a shorthanded roster is to make it more shorthanded.

The most amazing thing, to me, quite beyond rolling four lines and silly scratchings and this odd Blunden fetish, is how little Cunneyworth seems to be aware of why Martin did what he did. He was right there!

Why would he keep Martin's lines and jumble their roles? It only makes sense to use Moen on the Plekanec line if they're going to be your primary defensive unit. If you are going to give them offensive draws, use Kostitsyn!
I thought you said we were playing great... just unlucky.

Now it's "we were crushed by injuries." Pick whatever excuse you want, the club hasn't been able to score much this year (same as always) and that's why we are where we are. And rather than deal with it the way we should have, we've gone into panic mode. Picking up Thomas Kaberle and now firing the coach and throwing the new guy under the bus.

At what point do you just accept that our club wasn't all that great to begin with?

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12-25-2011, 10:24 PM
  #355
Teufelsdreck
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Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
So? I think it's relevant to point out the differences between what he did and what Cunneyworth does, so we can understand why he's failing and what qualities will be required of the (one hopes) soon-to-be-named successor.

Also, understanding the situation the Habs were and are still in, and how a skilled coach might handle it and what he might hope to accomplish, is very relevant. And why the new guy isn't managing as much.

As is understanding the consequences of the change of coach and why they are happening.
I don't understand a single sentence of your post. How long would it take you to edit it so that it has at least a semblance of clarity?

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Old
12-25-2011, 10:29 PM
  #356
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Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
I don't understand a single sentence of your post. How long would it take you to edit it so that it has at least a semblance of clarity?
His post was perfectly clear.

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12-25-2011, 11:42 PM
  #357
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Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
So? I think it's relevant to point out the differences between what he did and what Cunneyworth does, so we can understand why he's failing and what qualities will be required of the (one hopes) soon-to-be-named successor.

Also, understanding the situation the Habs were and are still in, and how a skilled coach might handle it and what he might hope to accomplish, is very relevant. And why the new guy isn't managing as much.

As is understanding the consequences of the change of coach and why they are happening.
Cunneyworth isn't failing. Our players have been offensively stunted under Martin. Cunneyworth is trying to open it up a little. When you've been taught to sit back for years and you're suddenly expected to think offence, it's not going to be easy. We need a change in philosophy - that's what he's bringing. It doesn't mean that, just because the team isn't winning now, Cunneyworth is failing. We owe him some time. That's what's happening.

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Old
12-26-2011, 01:18 AM
  #358
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
I thought you said we were playing great... just unlucky.

Now it's "we were crushed by injuries." Pick whatever excuse you want, the club hasn't been able to score much this year (same as always) and that's why we are where we are. And rather than deal with it the way we should have, we've gone into panic mode. Picking up Thomas Kaberle and now firing the coach and throwing the new guy under the bus.

At what point do you just accept that our club wasn't all that great to begin with?
Honestly I'm all for the retool (mainly because we are in a great position if we start now) but we were legitimately good but unlucky at the beginning of the season but since since 20 games or so we've been legitimately terrible like lottery team terrible(41.9 corsi is if I'm not mistaken, last year's oilers kind of bad) I already posted a link to the article I'm refering to in another thread but I'll just post it again for anyone who hasn't seen it, since it's a pretty good read.
http://blogs.thescore.com/nhl/2011/1...ook-at-us-now/

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12-26-2011, 08:17 AM
  #359
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I can't believe people are mad that we're no longer overachieving.

I'd rather succeed at our potential than overachieve and lose consistently when it matters the most.

At least the true incapacity of this team is being revealed and we may make desperate changes that have been necessary for a long time.

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Old
12-26-2011, 08:39 AM
  #360
Bill McNeal
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Originally Posted by EllertoKostitsynGoal View Post
Honestly I'm all for the retool (mainly because we are in a great position if we start now) but we were legitimately good but unlucky at the beginning of the season but since since 20 games or so we've been legitimately terrible like lottery team terrible(41.9 corsi is if I'm not mistaken, last year's oilers kind of bad) I already posted a link to the article I'm refering to in another thread but I'll just post it again for anyone who hasn't seen it, since it's a pretty good read.
http://blogs.thescore.com/nhl/2011/1...ook-at-us-now/
I don't follow the numbers like some do, but that was the general impression I've gotten of the team just from watching.

I was very impressed with their early season play. They outchanced and outworked their opponents on a regular basis. Seemed to me that it was only a matter of time until the wins came. But then we had a really putrid game (against Carolina or the Isles, can't remember) and it worried me a bit. The team's played started slipping from there. Very inconsistent efforts. We even had a few games where we won and I thought it was undeserved, a virtual 180 from October.

Then Martin got fired and the team has looked awful in the 4 games since.

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Old
12-26-2011, 12:30 PM
  #361
Roke
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Originally Posted by Bill McNeal View Post
I don't follow the numbers like some do, but that was the general impression I've gotten of the team just from watching.

I was very impressed with their early season play. They outchanced and outworked their opponents on a regular basis. Seemed to me that it was only a matter of time until the wins came. But then we had a really putrid game (against Carolina or the Isles, can't remember) and it worried me a bit. The team's played started slipping from there. Very inconsistent efforts. We even had a few games where we won and I thought it was undeserved, a virtual 180 from October.

Then Martin got fired and the team has looked awful in the 4 games since.
If you like arbitrary endpoints, that Carolina game on November 23rd appears to be the point where it all fell apart. The team generally controlled play like a top-10 or so team up until then and then fell apart into lottery-calibre afterwards.

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12-26-2011, 12:46 PM
  #362
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If you like arbitrary endpoints, that Carolina game on November 23rd appears to be the point where it all fell apart. The team generally controlled play like a top-10 or so team up until then and then fell apart into lottery-calibre afterwards.
Yeah that's pretty much it. It's actually a completly crazy drop from top ten to bottom 5. I would be curious to see an example of recent teams who had something like that happen to them. Pretty sure this mostly happens to injury riddled teams.

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12-26-2011, 12:59 PM
  #363
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Originally Posted by EllertoKostitsynGoal View Post
Yeah that's pretty much it. It's actually a completly crazy drop from top ten to bottom 5. I would be curious to see an example of recent teams who had something like that happen to them. Pretty sure this mostly happens to injury riddled teams.
honestly, i think it's that simple. our lack of experience on our blue line started to show

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Old
12-26-2011, 01:23 PM
  #364
EllertoKostitsynGoal
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honestly, i think it's that simple. our lack of experience on our blue line started to show
For sure and hell I hate Gomez taking Eller's spot at center when he's there(would mind less if he took DD's who's better suited as a winger) and he doesn't produce and he's overpaid but he's still a decent two way guy. And it also seems the fowards we lost to injuries have all been guys who do a pretty important job defensively(Gionta, Moen and even Gomez). So on a team with only 2 real top 4 dman losing some of our best defensives fowards really really hurts. I know people don't really give a **** about defence since it can't get classified in the same way assists and goals do but our 5-5 offence has also gone down since then because two-way guys tend to be pretty good puck possession players and when you never have the puck...

So yeah with Moen +Gio out the team basically only had 4 guys capable of playing any kind of shutdown role against top lines (Gorges, Plekanec,Subban,Eller)that's 4 on a roster of 20+. Now look how many of those guys Boston has, Chicago, Pittsburg...

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Old
12-26-2011, 11:02 PM
  #365
Lafleurs Guy
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Originally Posted by Bill McNeal View Post
I don't follow the numbers like some do, but that was the general impression I've gotten of the team just from watching.

I was very impressed with their early season play. They outchanced and outworked their opponents on a regular basis. Seemed to me that it was only a matter of time until the wins came. But then we had a really putrid game (against Carolina or the Isles, can't remember) and it worried me a bit. The team's played started slipping from there. Very inconsistent efforts. We even had a few games where we won and I thought it was undeserved, a virtual 180 from October.

Then Martin got fired and the team has looked awful in the 4 games since.
Outchancing your opponent only means something if you're actually able to score. We just haven't done very well in that department for a long time now.

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Old
12-26-2011, 11:22 PM
  #366
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His post was perfectly clear.
Yeah TD...headscratcher. His post was more than clear enough.

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