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Shakeup of roster looms as Rangers get healthier

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Old
12-27-2011, 07:48 AM
  #101
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
Let's not say that. Right now Hags is on pace for what Zukes was over an 82 game season.

He does blow him away defensively, though.
I'm totally comfortable saying that.

Hagelin looks to be a better stick handler, he's stronger on the puck and he's not as dependant on his line-mates as Zuccs was to score goals.

I see Hagelin as a much better offensive contrbutor than Zuccs regardless of their totals or projected totals.

In Hagelin I see a lot of similarities to both Callahan and Versteeg aside from the physical attributes (they are all pretty much the same height/weight)

Obviously Cally throws the body a bit more, but the hustle is there, the nose for the net is there. Understanding of your defensive responsibilities is there.

Would love to have 2 Callahan types on the Rangers. one on RW the other on LW

OMG

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12-27-2011, 08:05 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
I'm totally comfortable saying that.

Hagelin looks to be a better stick handler, he's stronger on the puck and he's not as dependant on his line-mates as Zuccs was to score goals.

I see Hagelin as a much better offensive contrbutor than Zuccs regardless of their totals or projected totals.

In Hagelin I see a lot of similarities to both Callahan and Versteeg aside from the physical attributes (they are all pretty much the same height/weight)

Obviously Cally throws the body a bit more, but the hustle is there, the nose for the net is there. Understanding of your defensive responsibilities is there.

Would love to have 2 Callahan types on the Rangers. one on RW the other on LW

OMG
Doesn't make it right.

MZA was very good offensively when he was here.

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12-27-2011, 08:17 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
Doesn't make it right.

MZA was very good offensively when he was here.
Hagelin starts in the offensive zone 37.5% of the times while Zuccarello started in it a staggering 67.1% of times last year. Hagelin is worth all the praise.. he is a beast possession wise and now he is scoring too.

If Hagelin slows down on scoring he shouldn't be going anywhere, but if Zuccs isn't scoring, he just isn't worth it..

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12-27-2011, 08:21 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by broadwayhat View Post
Hagelin starts in the offensive zone 37.5% of the times while Zuccarello started in it a staggering 67.1% of times last year. Hagelin is worth all the praise.. he is a beast possession wise and now he is scoring too.

If Hagelin slows down on scoring he shouldn't be going anywhere, but if Zuccs isn't scoring, he just isn't worth it..
I'm not saying Hagelin isn't better.

I'm saying MZA was good offensively as well.

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12-27-2011, 08:33 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Glennsoe View Post
Like I said in the post game thread;

Hagelin is this years zuccarello, and he's here to stay...
Ugh, I hope he's not. I actually like Hagelin.

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12-27-2011, 08:34 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
I'm totally comfortable saying that.

Hagelin looks to be a better stick handler, he's stronger on the puck and he's not as dependant on his line-mates as Zuccs was to score goals.

I see Hagelin as a much better offensive contrbutor than Zuccs regardless of their totals or projected totals.

In Hagelin I see a lot of similarities to both Callahan and Versteeg aside from the physical attributes (they are all pretty much the same height/weight)

Obviously Cally throws the body a bit more, but the hustle is there, the nose for the net is there. Understanding of your defensive responsibilities is there.

Would love to have 2 Callahan types on the Rangers. one on RW the other on LW

OMG
I think you're giving Hagelin a little too much credit on the offensive side at this point. This is coming from someone who was not overly impressed with Zuccarello's offensive prowess, despite it being clearly the strongest point of his game.

Hes off to a great start, but Im not ready to pencil Hagelin in for top 6 duties just yet.

When comparing him to Zuccarello, Hagelin does blow MZA out of the water when it comes to literally every other facet of the game. Hes extremely fast, hes defensively capable, and - perhaps best of all - hes very well schooled and has a high hockey IQ.

This team has some issues on LW, and Hagelin has been a God-send as an extremely solid 3rd line option who can fill in on the 2nd line. Will be be a fixture up there with Richards and Callahan? Not ready to say yes to that quite yet.

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12-27-2011, 08:35 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Glennsoe View Post
Like I said in the post game thread;

Hagelin is this years zuccarello, and he's here to stay...
Comparing Hagelin to Zuccarello is a great disservice to Hagelin, who is a much better/more complete player.

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12-27-2011, 08:55 AM
  #108
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I don't see much of a shakeup happening until the D is healthy. Wolski slots in on the 2nd line and we have a slight shuffle in the bottom six. Pretty straight forward.

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12-27-2011, 09:04 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
I don't see much of a shakeup happening until the D is healthy. Wolski slots in on the 2nd line and we have a slight shuffle in the bottom six. Pretty straight forward.
Yup. Dont think we'll need any shakeup on D assuming Staal, Sauer, and Eminger can get healthy in the next couple of months. Could see Stralman and Eminger trading the #6 spot depending on the opponent.

Wolski is going to get his chance to see what he can do in that top 6 LW spot that has been so troublesome. If he flops, perhaps it'll be time for a trade at the deadline. Or, perhaps Dubinsky awakens from his funk.

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12-27-2011, 09:16 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Callagraves View Post
This is just foolish. Wolski was looking and playing well before he got injured. He's larger, stronger, faster, and better than Christensen in nearly every aspect of the game. It legitimately looked like he had bought into the system, and was playing the Rangers sort of game. If he can grind, forecheck, and cycle, it's downright FOOLISH not to use him. He's not the ideal player. But he's one of our more talented players, and to not even let him get a shot at an offense that can honestly use another 25 goal scorer is a mistake I don't think Torts is looking to make.

As for all the hate Christensen gets, what the **** guys? He's a young guy who has all the skill, but has never, and probably won't be able to put it together, signed for less than 1m, and was able to go out there last season and with the help of Zucc and Wolski (neither of which are playing with the team at the moment, interestingly) help put this team into the playoffs.

Most of us hate the shootout. We think it's fun as all hell, but it should never decide the distribution of points within the league. That said, it's presently a fact of the game. Right now, this team doesn't need to worry about the shootout, we're winning games in regulation. Last season, we needed to win ALL of those games. We needed Christensen, or Wolski, or Zucc to score EVERY shootout goal they did. I understand that we don't want him playing with the Rangers. I see no reason not to put him in Hartford, let him collect his paycheck, and god forbid we lose a center or two, we have a plug who has NHL experience.

I understand hating a player for being cheap, dirty, or embarrassing to the team. I understand if you think a player is being lazy, because they're not as fast, or skilled, or down right as good as they need to be to be effective. But these are NHL players. They do what we all wish we could do. To assume that they're just lazy and heartless without seeing anything but how they play the game is presumptuous and unfounded.

I'm not a Wolski fan. It looked like Torts lit his ass on fire and told him to skate as hard as he could to put it out. Then he got injured. Lets see if he comes back with that fire again.

/rant

p.s. I don't know where that came from. I'm sure you're all wonderful people.
WW has played 43 games for us and scored 6 goals. 6 goals from a guy that doesn't play defense, doesn't hit...if he is going to give me the same offensive production as Mitchell, I will keep Mitchell in the lineup.

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12-27-2011, 09:16 AM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I think you're giving Hagelin a little too much credit on the offensive side at this point. This is coming from someone who was not overly impressed with Zuccarello's offensive prowess, despite it being clearly the strongest point of his game.

Hes off to a great start, but Im not ready to pencil Hagelin in for top 6 duties just yet.

When comparing him to Zuccarello, Hagelin does blow MZA out of the water when it comes to literally every other facet of the game. Hes extremely fast, hes defensively capable, and - perhaps best of all - hes very well schooled and has a high hockey IQ.

This team has some issues on LW, and Hagelin has been a God-send as an extremely solid 3rd line option who can fill in on the 2nd line. Will be be a fixture up there with Richards and Callahan? Not ready to say yes to that quite yet.
Be it due to lack of depth, doesn't matter right now, he's taking advantage of every opportunity he has been given. Ice time hasn't effected that, either, which is another sign. He's effective when he's on the ice. With and without the puck.

Sometimes players are better at the Pro level then they are in lower levels. Better players are able to take advantage of what that player does more so then players do at lower levels. Its a strange thing. Its been discussed that he looks better now then he did at Michigan last year. And he was damn good in Michigan. And I believe it has to do with better players taking advantage of what Hags provides. His speed and smarts and hard work is a catalyst for whatever line he's on.

Mitchell mentioned that while in Hartford, he would use Hagelin's speed to set him up. He'd dump the puck in and let Hagelin gain possession, then get the puck back from Hagelin and use his body to protect and possess the puck to open space for Hagelin. Same thing is happening here with the Rangers.

Add to it his PK ability.

And, you'll love this, this is the reason Kreider will be a game breaker at the NHL level. Because he won't have lesser players around him anymore not taking advantage of what he brings to the table.

Hags is a good story. Unlikely that a 6th round pick would be this effective. But regardless, kid is here, he is what he is, and there's no reason to believe he won't continue to progress with this group of players and this coaching staff.

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12-27-2011, 09:17 AM
  #112
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And he's much better then Zuccarello, in every facet of the game other then passing/vision.

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12-27-2011, 09:20 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by UlfNilsson View Post
Torts pretty much confirmed this on the last Behind the Bench. He's staying up with the team, which is the right decision.

If anything - find a sucker to take Dubinsky off our hands.
So Dubinsky is slumping and you want some team to take him off our hands?

Guys slump,Dubinsky is a good player and the rangers would be se
Ling extremely low on him

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12-27-2011, 09:31 AM
  #114
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NO need to trade Dubinsky at this point.

He's slumping, but Dubi is still able to contribute on the defensive side along with upping our physical game.

We won't get fair value for him, therefore hes worth more to our team.

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12-27-2011, 09:49 AM
  #115
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not necessarily what i would do, but i dont think Torts touches the top 3 lines whilst we are winning.

He may drop WW in on the 4th line and go with WW-Rupp-Prust. and use WW as a sort of powerplay specialist. Feds isn't getting too much ice time at the moment.

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12-27-2011, 09:53 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Comparing Hagelin to Zuccarello is a great disservice to Hagelin, who is a much better/more complete player.
i don't think the poster really meant it as a comparison of quality. He just sees him as the guy coming up from the minors, making an immediate impact and winning the hearts of most of the fans.

Even if Zuc did those things (and it's hard to make the argument he didn't, even if he did slow down), if we're going to compare Hags to any player brought up from the A last year, it should be McD. No one really expected him to be NHL ready, but he showed up and brought it.

MZA will never play for NYR again, while Hags will hopefully be around for years and years.

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12-27-2011, 09:54 AM
  #117
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I would like to see

Anisimov-Stepan-Gaborik
Wolski-Richards-Callahan
Hagelin-Dubinsky-Boyle
Feds-Rupp-Prust

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12-27-2011, 09:54 AM
  #118
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Wolski was actually playing great for the couple of games he played in before getting hurt again

if he could pick up where he left off it would be a fantastic stroke of luck for this team

im not holding my breath, but put me in the camp that wants to see him with Richards and Callahan.

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12-27-2011, 09:56 AM
  #119
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Only if we would be able talking up cheraponov at this point. Guy would have been perfect on the rangers playing with Richards

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12-27-2011, 10:08 AM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
WW has played 43 games for us and scored 6 goals. 6 goals from a guy that doesn't play defense, doesn't hit...if he is going to give me the same offensive production as Mitchell, I will keep Mitchell in the lineup.
Are you going to ignore Wolski's track record of producing at the NHL level? Knowing you, yes, you are - but I figured I'd ask anyway.

Noone is saying hes the perfect solution, or even a solution. But hes been kept around for a reason, and is going to get first crack at 2nd line LW before the team starts looking outside the organization for another offensive threat.

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12-27-2011, 10:27 AM
  #121
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Originally Posted by YoungD4 View Post
Only if we would be able talking up cheraponov at this point. Guy would have been perfect on the rangers playing with Richards
jesus hell. Adding Chere to this team, and Kreider next. Damn. I would have loved to see that happen.

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12-27-2011, 10:43 AM
  #122
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The praise for the Dubi-Boyle-Mitch line is a little overboard. Sure, they spend lots of time in the offensive zone. The problem with that line is that they never seem to move the puck off the wall. So either they need someone like Hagelin there who can create some space with his skating or they need someone like Wolski, who is more creative and can get the puck going towards the net. Either way, the line can be improved.

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12-27-2011, 10:54 AM
  #123
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The praise for the Dubi-Boyle-Mitch line is a little overboard. Sure, they spend lots of time in the offensive zone. The problem with that line is that they never seem to move the puck off the wall. So either they need someone like Hagelin there who can create some space with his skating or they need someone like Wolski, who is more creative and can get the puck going towards the net. Either way, the line can be improved.
Agreed, they do a great job of wearing out other teams top lines though. I would eventually like Wolski on 2nd Line, and Hags on the 3rd line with Dubi/Boyle.

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12-27-2011, 10:57 AM
  #124
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I think Wolski should go to Hartford on a Conditioning Assignment as soon as he is cleared to play.
That's the best solution I've read in this thread. Might buy you a little more time to make a decision and make sure that Wolski is definitely ready to go this time before making any roster changes.

I do have to disagree with you on Stralman though. He's now playing 22-24 minutes/night, is a + player and has 4 points in the last 3 games. In fact, I think he's only been on ice for one goal against and that was the Daly goal against Dallas that everyone blamed on Woywitka.

Therein lies the heart of the issue. I was a fan of Stralman, but even I was skeptical of his ability to fit in and produce for the Rangers. Now, I can't imagine that state of this depleted defense without him. I've got my doubts about Wolski too, but the potential is there for him to exceed expectations. You've gotta believe Torts feels the same way because conventional wisdom says the team should have parted ways with him along time ago.

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12-27-2011, 11:24 AM
  #125
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Originally Posted by Callagraves View Post
As for all the hate Christensen gets, what the **** guys? He's a young guy who has all the skill, but has never, and probably won't be able to put it together, signed for less than 1m, and was able to go out there last season and with the help of Zucc and Wolski (neither of which are playing with the team at the moment, interestingly) help put this team into the playoffs.

I understand hating a player for being cheap, dirty, or embarrassing to the team. I understand if you think a player is being lazy, because they're not as fast, or skilled, or down right as good as they need to be to be effective. But these are NHL players. They do what we all wish we could do. To assume that they're just lazy and heartless without seeing anything but how they play the game is presumptuous and unfounded.
If you understand all of those things then you should realize that people dislike EC because he doesn't do anything. To act like EC is getting some raw deal from the fan base is a little absurd. When have talented players that don't work hard ever made it in this city? Especially when their talent doesn't equate to anything of significance. I understand your rant and where you're going but the bolded is one of the most ridiculous things I think I've ever heard. So you're implying that we're all too hard on EC because we don't know if he works hard off the ice? And we're only judging him on "how he plays the game"? Seriously? You're right. I feel terrible now thinking about my dislike for the invisible, heartless, coasting, terrified to be touched on the ice Erik Christensen. I really should think about just how hard he rides that exercise bike on off days. I feel terrible!


Quote:
Originally Posted by MorrisWanchuk View Post
not necessarily what i would do, but i dont think Torts touches the top 3 lines whilst we are winning.

He may drop WW in on the 4th line and go with WW-Rupp-Prust. and use WW as a sort of powerplay specialist. Feds isn't getting too much ice time at the moment.
Wouldn't shock me. I'm not a huge Wolski fan but if he can't succeed with Richards and Cally he is never going to work here. He needs to be given that chance.

I understand that Hagelin has played well, but he has been solid everywhere he's played. He plays a simple, defense first game, and uses his speed. It doesn't matter who Hagelin in playing with right now. Dropping him back down to the third line isn't a demotion or a negative for him. Play Wolski with Richards and Cally and give it some time. If it doesn't work it doesn't work.

Playing Wolski on that third line might make some sense given the type of bodies we have there, but I fear that Torts will just put Wolski in a bad spot where he's barely playing 10 minutes a night and then everyone will act like he's horrible.

Whether or not any of us like Wolski, think he's any good, or have any hope for him, we absolutely have to try him in the top 6 and see what happens. It makes no sense to do it any other way.

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