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Caps vs Sabres - 1st Niagara Center - 7pm - 12/26/11

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Old
12-27-2011, 08:44 AM
  #326
strungout
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Yes but those teams played 'the wrong' way while now the team is playing 'the right' way. Clearly 'the right' way is better...



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12-27-2011, 08:46 AM
  #327
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The D isn't right either. I don't rage against what McPhee has done with that D. I mean, at least he has tried at it. The only really solid defensive D man we have is Karl Alzner. John Carlson is also good enough on balance that he helps the D corps. Wideman is always giving up chances. He was a bad pick up by McPhee. The way he plays creates a bad dynamic on the team. He is too wild west because his O skills are not good enough to create many actual goals. Mike Green is a top talent, but brittle and not great defensively. He needs to get healthy and to have an Alzner type to play with. Erskine tries but is never going to be a good skater. He's a #7 fill in and the only D guy who will body check, board or fight other players. Who am I missing? Hamrlik. I don't know what his problem is. He was a very skilled player once. I guess he's just too old now to keep up.

In sum, the offense from the D is not good enough to create any offense. Particularly w/ Green out. And the defense from the D is not very defensive.

And Neuvirth sure isn't good enough to bail them out. Patrick Roy wasn't that good.

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12-27-2011, 08:54 AM
  #328
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I also think the team could be built into a contenda with a few shrewd trades. It's not necessarily as bad as it looks--but if McPhee could do it then he already would've. I'm afraid he has to go and I don't know who the right GM is.

I'd definitely dump these players if I could: Schultz, Laich, Neuvirth, Knuble, Wideman (!), Hamrlik.

And possibly: Semin, Mojo, Ward, Halpern, Hendricks.

We might not get much for the lot of them. But if a GM had a good idea about team chemisty I think the Caps could be built into a good team in short order.

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12-27-2011, 09:00 AM
  #329
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I also think the team could be built into a contenda with a few shrewd trades. It's not necessarily as bad as it looks--but if McPhee could do it then he already would've. I'm afraid he has to go and I don't know who the right GM is.

I'd definitely dump these players if I could: Schultz, Laich, Neuvirth, Knuble, Wideman (!), Hamrlik.

And possibly: Semin, Mojo, Ward, Halpern, Hendricks.

We might not get much for the lot of them. But if a GM had a good idea about team chemisty I think the Caps could be built into a good team in short order.
lol, you listed just about everyone on this team. You're asking for a rebuilding again, right?

I'm not sure if something that drastic is necessary.

But what do I know, I'm not a GM.

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12-27-2011, 09:03 AM
  #330
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lol, you listed just about everyone on this team. You're asking for a rebuilding again, right?

I'm not sure if something that drastic is necessary.

But what do I know, I'm not a GM.

Well, even if you try to deal every player you won't be able to do it. But those are all guys I'd be willing or even happy to trade. It's not my call, of course. It's that those are the guys I see that are making the team worse or, like with Mojo, he's a young guy who would be attractive for a trade. If there is a guy you really think could improve your team maybe you trade him for that guy.

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12-27-2011, 09:04 AM
  #331
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And I do think something drastic is needed. The personnel ain't right here.

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12-27-2011, 09:05 AM
  #332
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They still don't play the right way. Their cohesion may be the worst in the league...certainly up there when it comes to matching a team's push with any sort of backbone. They're the same old dumb individualistic team, only now they're passive on top of it.

It looks more and more like the Montreal series was the turning point for the offense and perhaps their confidence generally. Very little in the way of evolving habits is disturbing and once again their leadership/maturity seems pretty questionable. Knuble said they look like clowns and that's close enough to a Mickey Mouse-style rip. Either own that reality and mature or it'll own them.

If McPhee had an idea about chemistry this team would be built differently in pretty much all aspects of the roster except for maybe half the defense and half the top six forwards. Hunter's approach only underlines that, which makes the hire all the more questionable.

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12-27-2011, 09:13 AM
  #333
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This team has never had chemistry.

The only time I saw it was during the 09-10 season. And it wasn't the whole team, it was just SOB who had chemistry. Those guys have been the backbone of this team for a long time. They masked everything that was wrong, IMO. And now that they can't keep carrying this team, the "team" has been exposed.

I do think with proper coaching the team can develop some sort of cohesion. But I'm not sure that is going to happen this year. That might be something that requires an entire offseason with a coach who focuses on developing it.

Edit: Awesome avatar, Langway. I watched Bronson a few months ago and loved it.

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12-27-2011, 09:16 AM
  #334
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Originally Posted by Atlas View Post
I also think the team could be built into a contenda with a few shrewd trades. It's not necessarily as bad as it looks--but if McPhee could do it then he already would've. I'm afraid he has to go and I don't know who the right GM is.

I'd definitely dump these players if I could: Schultz, Laich, Neuvirth, Knuble, Wideman (!), Hamrlik.

And possibly: Semin, Mojo, Ward, Halpern, Hendricks.

We might not get much for the lot of them. But if a GM had a good idea about team chemisty I think the Caps could be built into a good team in short order.
Rather trade Ovechkin than most of those players. Laich has proven me wrong about his contract.

Edit: Obviously agree with the two posts above mine. As much as I love the guy, McPhee's time has probably run out at this point. I'm absolutely terrified of Leonsis having any role in hiring his replacement, but I'll just have to hope for the best I suppose.

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12-27-2011, 09:21 AM
  #335
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Originally Posted by tycoonheart View Post
This team has never had chemistry.

The only time I saw it was during the 09-10 season. And it wasn't the whole team, it was just SOB who had chemistry. Those guys have been the backbone of this team for a long time. They masked everything that was wrong, IMO. And now that they can't keep carrying this team, the "team" has been exposed.

Good point. I think that's right. The chemistry was never quite right across the whole team. The forward lines were pretty damn hot for a few years. The PP rocked and the PK was solid. But the goaltending and D were not quite there. Varly was close but Boudreau put him the doghouse. The 09' and 10' teams had a lot to like.

Now, you can just see the chemistry is all wrong. The O looks more out of sync than anything else. Again, I say the Caps lack skill at forward. Beyond the SOB, the Caps are a bunch of hack plumbers.

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12-27-2011, 09:24 AM
  #336
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Originally Posted by Millhaus View Post
Yes but those teams played 'the wrong' way while now the team is playing 'the right' way. Clearly 'the right' way is better...

BUT BUT, I rather play the "right way" and lose all teh games then play teh "wrong way" and win all teh gamesss!11!111

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12-27-2011, 09:39 AM
  #337
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Originally Posted by Langway View Post
They still don't play the right way. Their cohesion may be the worst in the league...certainly up there when it comes to matching a team's push with any sort of backbone. They're the same old dumb individualistic team, only now they're passive on top of it.

It looks more and more like the Montreal series was the turning point for the offense and perhaps their confidence generally. Very little in the way of evolving habits is disturbing and once again their leadership/maturity seems pretty questionable. Knuble said they look like clowns and that's close enough to a Mickey Mouse-style rip. Either own that reality and mature or it'll own them.

If McPhee had an idea about chemistry this team would be built differently in pretty much all aspects of the roster except for maybe half the defense and half the top six forwards. Hunter's approach only underlines that, which makes the hire all the more questionable.
I wish at times I had the patience to care enough to express such a detailed post for the masses

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12-27-2011, 09:57 AM
  #338
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Originally Posted by Langway View Post
They still don't play the right way. Their cohesion may be the worst in the league...certainly up there when it comes to matching a team's push with any sort of backbone. They're the same old dumb individualistic team, only now they're passive on top of it.

It looks more and more like the Montreal series was the turning point for the offense and perhaps their confidence generally. Very little in the way of evolving habits is disturbing and once again their leadership/maturity seems pretty questionable. Knuble said they look like clowns and that's close enough to a Mickey Mouse-style rip. Either own that reality and mature or it'll own them.

If McPhee had an idea about chemistry this team would be built differently in pretty much all aspects of the roster except for maybe half the defense and half the top six forwards. Hunter's approach only underlines that, which makes the hire all the more questionable.
Not that I’m disagreeing with you, but hindsight is always 20/20…
I do remember majority of the posters here were pretty happy with additions GMGM has made in the past: Theo, Feds, Arnott, and now Brouwer, TVo, Ward. Are they enough? Apparently not, but at the time his moves made complete sense, at list to me…

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Old
12-27-2011, 11:24 AM
  #339
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so...you are having more fun now?
I'm not having more fun now watching the Caps than I did two Decembers ago, but I'm having more fun than I have the past three springs.

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Old
12-27-2011, 11:52 AM
  #340
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Coming out flat has been a common theme for a few years now; I think G play may be a factor, giving up an early one. Regardless, I refuse to read into an away game 4-2 loss on what was a national holiday. If you were expecting a win last night, you set high expectations.

Hovering around 500 with a new coach with as crappy as we looked before he got here, seems about right where we should be. He is installing new systems in all zones. Our stars are giving a respectable effort. Problems are being addressed.

Hopefully George has a roster trade up his sleeve. The core became too complacent, heck everyone here knew he wouldn't move any of his prized picks.

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12-27-2011, 12:00 PM
  #341
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Yeah, Hamrlik pretty much set the tone for last night with that stupid play 9 seconds into the game. Unfortunately, for whatever reason, our guys right now do not have the mental makeup to overcome a blunder like that, especially in an away game. I just had the feeling that the game was done after the PP goal that came out of that mistake by Hamrlik.

Right now the way they will win away games is by weathering the storm early and slowly ramping up offensively as the game progress. The way they beat Ottawa early this month.

These guys don't have much confidence to overcome early debacles like that.

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Old
12-27-2011, 12:07 PM
  #342
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Crazy Ottawa and Atlanta comebacks are so out of their mental make-up.

Then again you don't get to play teams that crappy that often.

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12-27-2011, 01:04 PM
  #343
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And I do think something drastic is needed. The personnel ain't right here.
Well, if that something drastic means some trades, I don't McPhee involved in that. His record on trades is abysmal right now. And frankly in retrospect, the drafting hasn't been that great either. So probably the drastic thing needed is a change in management, but I seriously doubt that'll happen, especially during the season.

But please McPhee, no trades. Unless you have someone else handle it. It's just not your forte.

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12-27-2011, 01:07 PM
  #344
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Trading is probably his biggest strength, depending how much credit you give him for the drafting. He may trade for the wrong players, but he's excellent at getting value.

If players are being traded for futures this year, there's probably no one I'd rather have overseeing that process than McPhee.

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12-27-2011, 01:10 PM
  #345
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Trading is probably his biggest strength, depending how much credit you give him for the drafting. He may trade for the wrong players, but he's excellent at getting value.
On the surface. But when you look retrospectively, it's not good at all. Value is just a component of it, if may trade for equal puzzle pieces in terms of worth, but if that piece doesn't fit, it does about as much good as getting a piece of inferior value.

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12-27-2011, 01:11 PM
  #346
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Trading is probably his biggest strength, depending how much credit you give him for the drafting. He may trade for the wrong players, but he's excellent at getting value.

If players are being traded for futures this year, there's probably no one I'd rather have overseeing that process than McPhee.
I agree about GMGM winning battles. And if its a selloff in isolation, agreed I want GMGM.

My concerns are his motivation. And if he sells someone that SHOULD be re-signed, or would be re-signed, by the 2012-13 GM.

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12-27-2011, 01:17 PM
  #347
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I agree about GMGM winning battles. And if its a selloff in isolation, agreed I want GMGM.

My concerns are his motivation. And if he sells someone that SHOULD be re-signed, or would be re-signed, by the 2012-13 GM.
Oh, yeah, I'm definitely afraid of a panic-induced move that ultimately backfires.

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12-27-2011, 02:20 PM
  #348
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The D isn't right either. I don't rage against what McPhee has done with that D. I mean, at least he has tried at it. The only really solid defensive D man we have is Karl Alzner. John Carlson is also good enough on balance that he helps the D corps. Wideman is always giving up chances. He was a bad pick up by McPhee. The way he plays creates a bad dynamic on the team. He is too wild west because his O skills are not good enough to create many actual goals. Mike Green is a top talent, but brittle and not great defensively. He needs to get healthy and to have an Alzner type to play with. Erskine tries but is never going to be a good skater. He's a #7 fill in and the only D guy who will body check, board or fight other players. Who am I missing? Hamrlik. I don't know what his problem is. He was a very skilled player once. I guess he's just too old now to keep up.

In sum, the offense from the D is not good enough to create any offense. Particularly w/ Green out. And the defense from the D is not very defensive.

And Neuvirth sure isn't good enough to bail them out. Patrick Roy wasn't that good.
Wideman is a bad pickup? Come on...

Without Wideman, this team would be playing Jeff Schultz full time right now, maybe in the top pair. As for as McPhee's resume of D pickups go, this might be his best ever.

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12-27-2011, 02:30 PM
  #349
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of course a drastic change is required. this core has never so much as SNIFFED the cup, nevermind had a legitimate chance of winning it. the lead d-man is a glass doll who can barely play in 1 of the 3 zones, the $10M franchise player is producing at a complimentary player level, and the 2nd line scoring threat making $7M has HALF as many points as olli jokinen

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12-27-2011, 03:27 PM
  #350
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Wideman is a bad pickup? Come on...

Without Wideman, this team would be playing Jeff Schultz full time right now, maybe in the top pair. As for as McPhee's resume of D pickups go, this might be his best ever.
I'm not a fan of Wideman, but give GMGM credit, that was a steal in getting him from the Panthers for a 3rd round draft choice and Jake Hauswirth. I suppose it was due to Wideman still having another year left on his 3.9 contract at the time.

Wideman's offensive side I believe could get at minimum a 2nd rounder in return this season.

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