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Survey: Canadians would support ban on fighting

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Old
12-18-2011, 06:48 PM
  #26
pooleboy
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lol at survey.

Most Canadian hockey fans like hockey. I dont know one person who would be in favour of taking it out and if have any idea about hockey would want to keep it in the game

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Old
12-18-2011, 06:52 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IME View Post
the only 'survey' you need is the sound of the crowd during a fight. Do you hear 'boos' or 'cheers'?

That's what I thought.
I'd cheer on a fight in a church parking lot, doesn't mean it's okay

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12-18-2011, 06:57 PM
  #28
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I think people are smart enough to realize that it's dangerous, and the long-term health effects to the combatants is more important than our entertainment.

The fact that fans love it shouldn't be a factor. Guys love watching crap blow up, but we all think laws against arson and bomb-building are pretty good ideas.

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12-18-2011, 07:14 PM
  #29
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fighting amongst two players that just lose it in the heat of the moment is ok by me. Staged fighting between enforcers is just stupid.

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Old
12-18-2011, 09:43 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Hockeyhopeful View Post
fighting amongst two players that just lose it in the heat of the moment is ok by me. Staged fighting between enforcers is just stupid.
I agree. Or if an opponent does something disrespectful or illegal thats egregious enough to warrant a smackdown. I certainly have no taste for staged fights or deliberate provocations setup to try & raise a teams morale or send a message late in a game; fighting used as a tactic, enforcers employed. Unfortunately, when winning is everything, Managers'll sign em, Coaches deploy them tactically.

Really, I think its time for a cultural change beginning at the amateur & Jr. levels, rescinding mandatory full cages, eliminating the instigator rule, teaching respect & control, getting back to the "code". Start suspending & fining Jr. & pro coaches who send out their Cruiserweights & Instigators (along with the players) to mix it up when their teams are down late in a game whether they directly ordered it or not, as usually its by intimation alone. Cut roster spots by one player per team from Jr. through the minors to the NHL. Re-insert the center ice red-line; use soft topped shoulder & elbow pads; start calling High Sticking, Charging, Boarding, Unsportsman Likes, dishing out multi-game & full season suspensions; Gross Misconducts... the rules are already in place, start calling them & stick to it.

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Old
12-18-2011, 11:01 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevFu View Post
I think people are smart enough to realize that it's dangerous, and the long-term health effects to the combatants is more important than our entertainment.

The fact that fans love it shouldn't be a factor. Guys love watching crap blow up, but we all think laws against arson and bomb-building are pretty good ideas.
Except this is a sport and not a crime.

See MMA.

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Old
12-18-2011, 11:05 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by dronald View Post
Except this is a sport and not a crime.

See MMA.
Yeah, but the goal of hockey is to put the biscuit in the basket. That can be done without fighting... MMA can't.

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Old
12-19-2011, 11:06 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Ugmo View Post
Yeah, but the goal of hockey is to put the biscuit in the basket. That can be done without fighting... MMA can't.
That doesn't change the fact that MMA is fighting. It's probably the biggest marquee event that any city/arena can bring in, its probably the most in demand event on television that occurs more than once a year, is a huge business with a tremendously growing fan base. It is fighting. Pure fighting, no purpose other than pummeling your opponent into submission or knockout.

What people have to realize is that hockey is not a series of independent plays that have little to no effect on the next action, like baseball or football where there is a reset of sorts after each play. Hockey flows and action on the ice effects the next. Every time you tinker with the rules, the intended action has a subsequent unintended action further down the line. When the instigator came in, the role of the enforcer was marginalized because he could no longer go out an protect the star players. The result was that liberties were taken with those stars occasionally, and cheap shots result because you can't drop the gloves. Often, the cheap shots get over looked by the officials, taking place behind the play. Out of the lockout we removed the red line, eliminated clutch and grab and prevented goaltenders from playing the puck outside the trapezoid. Unfortunately this prevents defenders from being able to slow down an offensive attack, players can fly into the zone at top speed and when you get to high traffic areas, collisions occur and injuries result.

The issue is that if fighting is eliminated altogether, there will be a rise in those sorts of plays (cheap shots and such, that is). Fighting has always been part of this game, if you don't like it, don't watch. Nobody is forcing anyone to watch hockey. These are free countries. Don't like the fighting, fine. Stick to football or MMA because those are obviously not contact sports, with violence, that are obviously not more popular than hockey...

If anyone wants to question the support for fighting, the clearest case of support are the 15-20,000 fans who stand on their feet and cheer when two guys drop the gloves, staged or not, enforcers or superstars. Those fans, the thousands that pay hand over fist to see the NHL in an NHL building are the ones that matter the most to owners and the league. They put money in their pockets. So long as the fans stand and cheer in support of fisticuffs, it will remain part of the NHL.

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Old
12-19-2011, 12:06 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Trevor3 View Post
The issue is that if fighting is eliminated altogether, there will be a rise in those sorts of plays (cheap shots and such, that is).
But that kind of fighting doesn't exist to the same extent in European leagues, and the incidence of cheap shots isn't any higher. I think you have cobbled together a theory that isn't logical.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor3 View Post
Fighting has always been part of this game, if you don't like it, don't watch.
What if I like the rest of it apart from the staged goon show?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor3 View Post
If anyone wants to question the support for fighting, the clearest case of support are the 15-20,000 fans who stand on their feet and cheer when two guys drop the gloves, staged or not, enforcers or superstars.
I'm with the guy who said he'd watch a fight in a parking lot (awesome quote, cracked me up), but that doesn't make it right. So 15,000 people like to watch two designated brawlers give each other concussions - how is that good for the game? I don't like MMA because I don't really want to watch meatheads beating on each other. If other people do, that's cool, but I watch hockey for the skill and speed, not for the brawling.

I could just as easily say to you "If you like brawling, watch MMA and not hockey."

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Old
12-19-2011, 12:24 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Eaglepride View Post
Exactly some of us would love having more fights in the SEL. There are some things in hockey no one should mess with because they are part of the tradition, the crowd loves it and on top of that are good for the well being of rookies, star players fighting is one of these.
What's the European penalty for fighting? I remember liking that.

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Old
12-19-2011, 01:07 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Ugmo View Post
Yeah, but the goal of hockey is to put the biscuit in the basket. That can be done without fighting... MMA can't.
You can't on one hand say fighting should be banned in hockey due to health etc but mma should not be banned.

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Old
12-19-2011, 01:13 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by wjhl2009fan View Post
You can't on one hand say fighting should be banned in hockey due to health etc but mma should not be banned.


Sure, ban that crap too, for all I care.

I'm not really all that invested in this issue, to be honest. I just don't get the logic of "15,000 people at the game love fighting, therefore it's okay." I mean 40 people betting on dogfighting love watching dogs fight too! Admittedly there are some flaws in that comparison, but you know what I mean.

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Old
12-19-2011, 01:16 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wjhl2009fan View Post
You can't on one hand say fighting should be banned in hockey due to health etc but mma should not be banned.
I guess it might depend on what the majority of hockey players believe they're becoming a part of when they become hockey players or join the professional ranks. If most don't expect that being a hockey player involves such a risk, then they probably won't want that risk as part of their hockey life. Whereas in the MMA it should be a known fact that it's a risk that part of the sport.

You could say that hockey players that don't want to take that risk then don't have to fight. But when you're part of a team sport, it's hard to justify to your teammates (and to fans) that certain risks are for some players to take and not for others.

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Old
12-27-2011, 01:58 PM
  #39
NHL Dude 120
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fighting

personally while i see the intensity of fighting i think fighting should
be eliminated
1. tough guys seem useless to me: if you have a player who is only designated to fight that's a waste to me all players and i dont care top six forwards or a top four defenceman you can stand up for yourself. its pathetic if you cant stand up for yourself.

2. a guy like Darcy Hordichuk in 495 games doesnt even have 70 points what a waste.

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Old
12-27-2011, 02:48 PM
  #40
wjhl2009fan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NHL Dude 120 View Post
personally while i see the intensity of fighting i think fighting should
be eliminated
1. tough guys seem useless to me: if you have a player who is only designated to fight that's a waste to me all players and i dont care top six forwards or a top four defenceman you can stand up for yourself. its pathetic if you cant stand up for yourself.

2. a guy like Darcy Hordichuk in 495 games doesnt even have 70 points what a waste.
I don't want it eliminated as i do think we would see more cheap dirty plays what i would like to see is less fights.

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Old
12-27-2011, 02:52 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by MoreOrr View Post
I guess it might depend on what the majority of hockey players believe they're becoming a part of when they become hockey players or join the professional ranks. If most don't expect that being a hockey player involves such a risk, then they probably won't want that risk as part of their hockey life. Whereas in the MMA it should be a known fact that it's a risk that part of the sport.

You could say that hockey players that don't want to take that risk then don't have to fight. But when you're part of a team sport, it's hard to justify to your teammates (and to fans) that certain risks are for some players to take and not for others.
Sure but you could say the same about hits as a fan i am more worried about hits from behind and to the head then fighting.

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Old
12-27-2011, 04:08 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NHL Dude 120 View Post
personally while i see the intensity of fighting i think fighting should
be eliminated
1. tough guys seem useless to me: if you have a player who is only designated to fight that's a waste to me all players and i dont care top six forwards or a top four defenceman you can stand up for yourself. its pathetic if you cant stand up for yourself.

2. a guy like Darcy Hordichuk in 495 games doesnt even have 70 points what a waste.
17,000 Leaf fans disagree with you.


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Old
12-27-2011, 04:14 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by dronald View Post
17,000 Leaf fans disagree with you.

So do most other NHL fans. Fighting is part of the integrity and tradition of this sport and hopefully here to stay. This year is already showing how boring some games are without the top guys dropping the mits.

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Old
12-27-2011, 04:26 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by wjhl2009fan View Post
Sure but you could say the same about hits as a fan i am more worried about hits from behind and to the head then fighting.
And hits from behind are being penalized more and becoming less common. Whereas fighting creates a certain kind of energy in the rink, players and teams need a stricter form of penalization in order for it to be reduced (in comparison to the hits from behind). But many players today, going back to my original point, may well not like the risks that are becoming well-known for either of those types of situations, and may be very content for the League to manage the situation to have both reduced.

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