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Liles Out With Concussion-like symptoms

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Old
12-28-2011, 12:57 PM
  #76
Mansfield
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Originally Posted by Darylman View Post
Some of you are really ridiculous. They announce a concussion on Armstrong because..HE HAS A CONCUSSION. With Liles, he has symptoms of a concussion, like headaches, neck stiffness etc. while NOT HAVING A CONCUSSION. It's really very simple. Armstrong failed cognitive tests in relation to his baseline and Liles did not. Hence his return to the game.
well guys, looks like we're in luck - we have the leafs resident concussion expert posting on hfboards!

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12-28-2011, 01:45 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Mansfield View Post
well guys, looks like we're in luck - we have the leafs resident concussion expert posting on hfboards!
If by expert you mean I know how to read and draw elementary inferences then yes, I'm an expert.

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12-28-2011, 02:20 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by SteveV View Post
jonasTSN1050 Jonas Siegel
Liles remains with Leafs on road trip. Hoping to skate with team later in the week with us. Entirely dependent on how he feels.


Really good sign he is still travelling with the team, not sure flying is advisable with a bad concussion?
awesome stuff.

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01-05-2012, 11:41 AM
  #79
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According to Jonas Siegel (twitter) now Liles is dealing with bronchitis and his concussion...

I feel for the guy. The bad stuff just piling on him right now.

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01-05-2012, 08:59 PM
  #80
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Aww man, PP will take a big hit.

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01-05-2012, 10:38 PM
  #81
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he should be ready soon?

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01-05-2012, 10:45 PM
  #82
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Bowen mentioned it during the game, its the bronchitis thats holding him back.

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01-05-2012, 11:27 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Darylman View Post
Some of you are really ridiculous. They announce a concussion on Armstrong because..HE HAS A CONCUSSION. With Liles, he has symptoms of a concussion, like headaches, neck stiffness etc. while NOT HAVING A CONCUSSION. It's really very simple. Armstrong failed cognitive tests in relation to his baseline and Liles did not. Hence his return to the game.
Liles gets rocked, has symptoms in line with a concussion, and you think it's what.. a migrane? A cold? I doubt it.

The impact test is not perfect. Crosby passed his, and is likely going to miss the season for example.

If Liles has "concusion like symptoms" he more than likley suffered some degree of concussion. Same with Reimer who was held out for "concussion like symptoms".

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01-06-2012, 12:16 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by NewFang View Post
Liles gets rocked, has symptoms in line with a concussion, and you think it's what.. a migrane? A cold? I doubt it.

The impact test is not perfect. Crosby passed his, and is likely going to miss the season for example.

If Liles has "concusion like symptoms" he more than likley suffered some degree of concussion. Same with Reimer who was held out for "concussion like symptoms".
This is wrong.

There is definitely many cases where you can have symptoms and not be concussed since a 'concussion' is a very specific term

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01-06-2012, 01:56 AM
  #85
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Aww man, PP will take a big hit.
While I would love to have him back ASAP with his smooth skating, QB abilities and first pass skills, the PP has looked robust without him. Let him rest up a bit more if he needs it. No urgency to rush him back.

Keep him rested for the playoffs

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01-06-2012, 02:02 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Vexxed14 View Post
This is wrong.

There is definitely many cases where you can have symptoms and not be concussed since a 'concussion' is a very specific term
And these symptoms are caused by what exactly? Leading neurologists disagree with what you are saying.


When it comes to a concussion, you either have one or you don’t.

So when sports team officials announce that a player is suffering from “concussion-like symptoms,” they’re actually fudging the facts of an injury, two of Canada’s top neurosurgeons suggest.

“There is no (clinical) term ‘concussion-like.’ You either have one or you don’t,” Dr. Charles Tator, a Toronto Western Hospital neurologist says of the phrase.

“It’s a make-believe term that I think teams cook up to avoid the issue that a player has had a concussion.”


http://www.thestar.com/sports/hockey...urologists-say

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01-06-2012, 02:11 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by NewFang View Post
And these symptoms are caused by what exactly? Leading neurologists disagree with what you are saying.


When it comes to a concussion, you either have one or you don’t.

So when sports team officials announce that a player is suffering from “concussion-like symptoms,” they’re actually fudging the facts of an injury, two of Canada’s top neurosurgeons suggest.

“There is no (clinical) term ‘concussion-like.’ You either have one or you don’t,” Dr. Charles Tator, a Toronto Western Hospital neurologist says of the phrase.

“It’s a make-believe term that I think teams cook up to avoid the issue that a player has had a concussion.”


http://www.thestar.com/sports/hockey...urologists-say
Exactly

You either have one or you don't. I wont go as far as to say every 'concussion like symptom" is a real concussion in disguise. You can suffer whiplash or other neck/shoulder injuries that result in similar symptoms as a concussion. There doesn't need to be a quote from some doctor jumping on the media bandwagon to make that clear.

With other terms like upper body injury and lower body injury, the only thing that is clear is that the NHL is not clear with injuries in general. Doesn't make the speculation accurate either

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01-06-2012, 10:38 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by NewFang View Post
And these symptoms are caused by what exactly? Leading neurologists disagree with what you are saying.


When it comes to a concussion, you either have one or you don’t.

So when sports team officials announce that a player is suffering from “concussion-like symptoms,” they’re actually fudging the facts of an injury, two of Canada’s top neurosurgeons suggest.

“There is no (clinical) term ‘concussion-like.’ You either have one or you don’t,” Dr. Charles Tator, a Toronto Western Hospital neurologist says of the phrase.

“It’s a make-believe term that I think teams cook up to avoid the issue that a player has had a concussion.”


http://www.thestar.com/sports/hockey...urologists-say
Just because concussion-like is not a medical term does not mean using the term automatically suggests that a concussion has happened but is being covered up. The term is implemented solely as a precaution. Two neurosurgeons theories on why sports teams use the term is in no way equivalent to a factual, medical opinion.

Concussions are often diagnosed based on symptoms but your argument has become confused with thinking that concussions are defined by its symptoms. A concussion is defined by minor to severe injury to the brain. Cognitive testing is not perfect but that is the primary baseline in diagnosing a concussion, the accompanying symptoms are what support the diagnosis.

My friend was in a bad car accident and she had hit her head against the steering wheel. She experienced headaches for weeks after the accident. Went for brain scans, did cognitive tests and relayed all symptoms she was feeling. Brain scan found nothing. She passed her cognitive test with flying colours but she had a couple of symptoms that are shared with a concussion. Guess what the verdict was - no concussion or any brain related injury.

I know of three other incidents almost identicle to the above. On the flipside, I know of two people who were diagnosed with concussions - both had the symptoms but most importantly was that neither passed their cognitive testing. You also need to keep in mind that cognitive testing is administered consistently during the period an individual is feeling symptoms. That's obviously to ensure that the cognitive abilities do not decline as that would potentially result in reassessing the diagnosis - and I'm sure sports doctors do multiple cognitive testing as well to determine if anything needs to be reassessed.

And the biggest issue with your argument is that you ignore how lifestyle can affect the symptoms being experienced. In your 'you either have one or you don't argument, it's very possible that if Liles were not an athlete and did not make a living playing a fast, intense sport where collisions and danger is a constant threat, he would fall into the category of 'you don't have it'. So again, it all falls into the area of precaution. The most important information does not support a diagnosis of concussion but if you're having headaches and you have a sore neck, I'm not going to put you on the ice and put you in the position to get knocked around while you're still trying heal in two areas that could develop into a far dangerous situation if provoked. The term 'concussion-like' also benefits teams as it jusitifies not dressing a player, justifies putting them on IR and justifies calling someone else up while they wait for symptoms to clear.

So as hard as you try to paint the picture as black and white, that's simply not the case.

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01-06-2012, 10:50 AM
  #89
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Well there you have it, HF boards doctors have proven that stiff necks and migraines are always concussions. Didn't realize I had so many!

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01-06-2012, 11:06 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by HockeyCrazed101 View Post
Just because concussion-like is not a medical term does not mean using the term automatically suggests that a concussion has happened but is being covered up. The term is implemented solely as a precaution. Two neurosurgeons theories on why sports teams use the term is in no way equivalent to a factual, medical opinion.
While I do think that some teams may cover up concussions, I think you're bang on with this point. Some in the medical community may not realize that the sports world likes to make up their own words and rarely (if ever) do they make sense in the scientific world. If a team deems someone to have "concussions-like symptoms" then they will take the necessary pre-cautions and run the appropriate test. You most definitely could have symptoms that correspond with a concussion but it doesn't mean you have one. That seems pretty logical to me.

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01-06-2012, 11:26 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Vexxed14 View Post
Exactly

You either have one or you don't. I wont go as far as to say every 'concussion like symptom" is a real concussion in disguise. You can suffer whiplash or other neck/shoulder injuries that result in similar symptoms as a concussion. There doesn't need to be a quote from some doctor jumping on the media bandwagon to make that clear.

With other terms like upper body injury and lower body injury, the only thing that is clear is that the NHL is not clear with injuries in general. Doesn't make the speculation accurate either
Connolly was out with concussion like symptoms when it was a neck/jaw injury. This was while with the Sabres and they thought it was a concussion and once they found the cause and corrected it the symptons went away.

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01-15-2012, 02:50 PM
  #92
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no updates on him i guess ?

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01-15-2012, 02:57 PM
  #93
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no updates on him i guess ?
I think Jonas said that liles will start skating with the leafs this week. I really hope we get him back as soon as possible. Our pp sucks without him.

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01-15-2012, 02:59 PM
  #94
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I think Jonas said that liles will start skating with the leafs this week. I really hope we get him back as soon as possible. Our pp sucks without him.
not to mention how slow our D is now, Dion, Komi, Schenn and Aulie being slow as hell and having poor puck moving skill....

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01-16-2012, 01:19 AM
  #95
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Liles has been out 10 games.

Our PP has been 8/35 = 22.9% in the last 10 games.

Someone want to explain how it has struggled?

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01-16-2012, 01:25 AM
  #96
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We are a much better team with Liles in the line-up. Let's put it that way.

Love this guy. He'll be a big part of the last half on the ref season.

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01-16-2012, 06:29 AM
  #97
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hopefully he will be back by next week or the week after

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01-16-2012, 08:25 AM
  #98
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Originally Posted by A1LeafNation View Post
Liles has been out 10 games.

Our PP has been 8/35 = 22.9% in the last 10 games.

Someone want to explain how it has struggled?
It hasn't "looked" as smooth. We've still managed to put up the points though which is a great sign.

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01-16-2012, 09:05 AM
  #99
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Liles is vital to this team. Our defense are a joke moving the puck and that's his best asset.

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01-16-2012, 10:37 AM
  #100
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He's on the ice before practice with Armstrong today... not sure if that's good or bad. I was hoping he'd be back this week... or tomorrow

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