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Penalty kill-AHL#1,NHL#30?????

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Old
12-28-2011, 11:27 AM
  #26
Interactif
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Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
It makes a lot of sense to compare the AHL to the NHL.

I'm sure the things that work on a player at the skill level of Luca Caputi work the same on guys like Crosby and Stamkos.

Keep bringing logical things to the table guys.
Almost all of the better coach's in the NHL once coached in the minors. They had to teach some sort of system to be successful in the NHL.

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12-28-2011, 11:27 AM
  #27
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Mike Zigomanis!

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12-28-2011, 11:37 AM
  #28
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12-28-2011, 11:45 AM
  #29
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12-28-2011, 12:08 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
It makes a lot of sense to compare the AHL to the NHL.

I'm sure the things that work on a player at the skill level of Luca Caputi work the same on guys like Crosby and Stamkos.

Keep bringing logical things to the table guys.
In case you didn't notice, (ie:last night)the Leafs don't play Crosby and Stamkos every night, and they still get lit up. You don't find it odd that 2 teams within the same orginization are on the complete opposite ends of the spectrum in their respective leagues? It would seem to me that there is a GLARING difference in the systems they use.

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12-28-2011, 12:11 PM
  #31
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We're not playing to the strength of our team. Our current system requires smart positional play and ballsy shot blocking. Our team is quick and feisty so we should probably be playing more aggressive.

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12-28-2011, 01:33 PM
  #32
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I believe it to be odd that people would equate the difference in PK %'s to coaching when literally every other variable involved between the two teams (Marlies/Leafs) is also different

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12-28-2011, 02:05 PM
  #33
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Having watched the AHL for awhile here in Winnipeg, and now the NHL, the biggest difference on the PP is that in the AHL, players tend to be a lot more stationary. There is a lot more movement in the NHL on the PP and the Leafs PKers just tend to chase a lot. Eakins' strategy (I've seen it first hand many times when the Marlies played the Moose) would be a little less effective in the NHL because the players are more composed on the PP, and they move around, forcing them to chase a lot.

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12-28-2011, 02:16 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ripe4theSnipe View Post
We're not playing to the strength of our team. Our current system requires smart positional play and ballsy shot blocking. Our team is quick and feisty so we should probably be playing more aggressive.
We have been using an aggressive/large box for over a month. Low defensive IQ of our players have us chasing. When we used a passive collapsing box our low IQ players couldn't clog passing lanes to the point and allowed the D to take one timers from the top of the circles. When we used a diamond for like one game well it was ineffective. So please tell me what Ron should instruct his players to do? The only thing that hasn't been tried is abandoning fronting on the D and clearing the front. This will lead to taking more penalties. Hmmm ok, what else.

It's easy to stand on a chair and scream it's Wilson's fault, ok lets assume it is. How do you fix the PK. I thought that's what this thread was for.

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12-28-2011, 03:03 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by KesselPhaneufTML View Post
I think its only a matter of time until Eakins gets a job offer from another NHL team if we don't give him a role on the NHL team soon. I could be wrong, just my opionion
Apparenty nonis said that any NHL team that wants to talk to eakins has to wait till the end of the season. So it kinda sounds like some teams are interested

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12-28-2011, 06:53 PM
  #36
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I dont know why people think just because you have success at one level, it should work in another. Does a player who leads the AHL in scoring come up & dominate the NHL? No. Different leagues, different levels.

The Leafs should have got someone in the off-season who has coached the PK at the NHL level.

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Old
12-28-2011, 07:14 PM
  #37
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Leafs first pk last night, 0:46-1:00 on this video...



Phaneuf loses a battle on the boards. Bozak can't stop the pass back, then falls down. Joey Crabb is in no-mans land the entire time. Reimer lets in a so-so goal.

The funny thing is to watch Crabb, what a lost soul. I've said it before and I'll say it again with video evidence. Get Phaneuf and Crabb the hell off the pk, these guys are utterly sans clue. Just like the coaches.

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12-28-2011, 07:15 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by indigobuffalo View Post
Oh good. Why would they? It's not like the purpose of the AHL is to prepare these guys to play on the NHL club.

Out of curiosity where do I go to find out exactly what the system is that both teams employ?
I believe trying to figure out the difference between the AHL penalty kill and the NHL penalty kill, for the Leafs, is the point of this thread.

Someone posted the strategy for the Marlies above, and you can contrast that strategy with the Leafs, to see the noticeable difference.

Some coaches for whatever reason choose to still employ the same failing strategies. Wilson and co. need to employ the exact opposite of what they are doing on the PK, because what they are in fact doing, is failing this team.

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12-28-2011, 07:29 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mulebreath View Post
Leafs first pk last night, 0:46-1:00 on this video...



Phaneuf loses a battle on the boards. Bozak can't stop the pass back, then falls down. Joey Crabb is in no-mans land the entire time. Reimer lets in a so-so goal.

The funny thing is to watch Crabb, what a lost soul. I've said it before and I'll say it again with video evidence. Get Phaneuf and Crabb the hell off the pk, these guys are utterly sans clue. Just like the coaches.
Crabb only left his position because Bozak slipped and fell, which caused the goal.

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12-28-2011, 07:32 PM
  #40
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I think it's pretty clear that our PK woes are an issue with the players not the coaches.

New assistant coaches were brought in to address the fact that it could be the coaching. Nothing changed, the Leafs PK remained the worst in the league.

You could hire whoever you like, if you're guys just don't have a mind for defence, which this team obviously does not, you will have a hard time killing penalties.

The Leafs really need to make a couple of key additions to become a serious contender. There's a good base laid down, now the team needs to fine tune to get to where they need to be.

TL;DR: Not coaching, players fault. Good base of players on team, needs fine tuning to shore up glaring problems.

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Old
12-28-2011, 07:42 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy Boucher View Post
Crabb only left his position because Bozak slipped and fell, which caused the goal.
That's not the way I see it. Crabb was out of position the entire time, before and after Bozak fell. He's supposed to be top left in the box of horrors, the right dman should never have been that wide-open. What the hell is he doing standing in the slot the whole time? Only the Leafs can come up with an arrangement like that.

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12-28-2011, 09:03 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mulebreath View Post
That's not the way I see it. Crabb was out of position the entire time, before and after Bozak fell. He's supposed to be top left in the box of horrors, the right dman should never have been that wide-open. What the hell is he doing standing in the slot the whole time? Only the Leafs can come up with an arrangement like that.
That's not the way I see it. You really want him to be high up in the top left covering the right d-man? You know how many cross ice passes would fly pass him. Can't bite too hard on the d-men. And no, he shouldn't be in the slot, but he only did so to cover up the fallen Bozak as the other poster already said.

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12-28-2011, 09:04 PM
  #43
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Coincidence? I think not

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12-28-2011, 09:14 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
There is no doubt the talent in the AHL is higher end, but if you ask me what the MO of our PK is up here, I would seriously have a tough time describing it. One hand you have games where guys are standing stationary in a box, no puck pressure. Another game you will have 3 guys in a corner, with one guy flat on his back. There is no rhyme or reason to this PK. Passes through the box, guys unmarked in front of the net. It's a mess. Now one thing I did point out that Eakins preaches is he uses high energy guys to keep the pressure on opposing teams up ice, everyone is rightfully focused on the play in your own zone but wasting seconds making it hard for other teams to set up in our zone is overlooked and is just as valuable in the PK.
What a cement head Wilson is, to tell 3 of them to go in the corner. We need a good coach that won't teach them that crap.

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12-28-2011, 09:23 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by TeamBester View Post
What a cement head Wilson is, to tell 3 of them to go in the corner. We need a good coach that won't teach them that crap.
Maybe he is telling 4 of them to go into the corner, but the players have tuned him out.

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12-28-2011, 09:23 PM
  #46
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Board play is the biggest problem that this team has. If you guys remember when we killed the last penalty in Buffalo game, we won every single board play in our zone, which led to efficient clear.

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Old
12-28-2011, 09:31 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
Maybe he is telling 4 of them to go into the corner, but the players have tuned him out.
That's as believable as thinking that being super aggressive with the best playmakers in the world will do a damn thing other than allow them to be beaten on one move or elite professional pass to the obviously open man. This isn't the AHL, and the balance of when to force as opposed to when to clog the lane is not easy for players to learn. This is why killing penalties is a skill, the players are not easily programmed robots.

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12-28-2011, 09:32 PM
  #48
mulebreath
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Originally Posted by Eb View Post
That's not the way I see it. You really want him to be high up in the top left covering the right d-man? You know how many cross ice passes would fly pass him. Can't bite too hard on the d-men. And no, he shouldn't be in the slot, but he only did so to cover up the fallen Bozak as the other poster already said.
That's just plain wrong . Freeze the 0:52 shot. There's Bozak standing up and Crabb way, way, way too low. Nobody's saying he should be standing next to the right dman. But he should be higher up in a proper position.
And Gardiner...Good Gawd... Reimer was late getting to the cross-ice because he was entirely screened the whole time... way to box him out, Jake. Another guy in no-man's land.
Results speak for themselves... 3 guys without a clue about where to position themselves and the one guy who has a clue fell down.
Absolute freaking mess, no excuse for this garbage.

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Old
12-28-2011, 09:41 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by mulebreath View Post
That's just plain wrong . Freeze the 0:52 shot. There's Bozak standing up and Crabb way, way, way too low. Nobody's saying he should be standing next to the right dman. But he should be higher up in a proper position.
And Gardiner...Good Gawd... Reimer was late getting to the cross-ice because he was entirely screened the whole time... way to box him out, Jake. Another guy in no-man's land.
Results speak for themselves... 3 guys without a clue about where to position themselves and the one guy who has a clue fell down.
Absolute freaking mess, no excuse for this garbage.
Crabb and Gardiner are where Wilson (or the PK coach) wants them. Crabb is down low for support on the weak side and Gardiner, like all of the other Leafs d-men, don't worry about boxing out their job is to get in the lane and block the shot. You can say Phaneuf and Bozak didn't execute, but the other two are doing the same things you'll see on every Leafs PK. Our d-men haven't boxed out players for years and the weak side winger collapses down for support. Seems like the players are where they should be, it's just not the right spots to be on that particular play.

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12-28-2011, 09:54 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by EazyB97 View Post
Crabb and Gardiner are where Wilson (or the PK coach) wants them. Crabb is down low for support on the weak side and Gardiner, like all of the other Leafs d-men, don't worry about boxing out their job is to get in the lane and block the shot. You can say Phaneuf and Bozak didn't execute, but the other two are doing the same things you'll see on every Leafs PK. Our d-men haven't boxed out players for years and the weak side winger collapses down for support. Seems like the players are where they should be, it's just not the right spots to be on that particular play.
If one accepts that Gardiner and Crabb are not at fault and positioned where the coaches want them....
What good are they in this play? Neither one of them accomplished a thing.
Left dman wide open... because of Bozak falling and Phaneuf not making a play.
Right dman wide open... because Crabb is too low.
Forward with an uncontested screen... because Gardiner is executing coach's policy in not trying to box him out.
You say that the positioning didn't work for this "particular play". When has it ever worked? This is a 15-second microcosm of everything that spews about what could be the most poorly coached and executed unit in the sporting world... ever... of all time.

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