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Will Bryzgalov ever be worth his contract?

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Old
12-28-2011, 10:07 PM
  #726
Ryker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
.890 3.01

but yeah none of that is on him.
I hope you realize there isn't a single person here that is saying none of that is on him, so I really don't get why you bring these strawmen arguments out. I mean, none of us are happy with the situation, some are just saying there could be other contributing factors to this. I personally think both our defense and Bryz suck badly on such plays, but I don't think it's clear-cut at all who should take the greater blame. And I hate Bryz's contract, as well, because I do agree he should be playing like a top 5 - 10 goalie, and right now he's far from it. But on the other hand, we are either spending most or second most in the league on defense (at least in terms of cap hit), and having them play like that isn't acceptable, either. Whether that's the players' fault or someone else's, I can't really say, but the whole defensive corps is as overrated as Bryz is, at least at the moment.

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12-28-2011, 10:21 PM
  #727
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And now I feel sympathy for him after 24/7 Christmas and family shots. Plus the dude has been the star of the series...how anti-climactic would that be if he doesn't even play in the game?!

If Bob plays well tomorrow, Bryz gets the nod for the Winter Classic, and then Bob goes for a few games after that imo.

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12-28-2011, 10:46 PM
  #728
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Originally Posted by Ryker View Post
I hope you realize there isn't a single person here that is saying none of that is on him, so I really don't get why you bring these strawmen arguments out. I mean, none of us are happy with the situation, some are just saying there could be other contributing factors to this. I personally think both our defense and Bryz suck badly on such plays, but I don't think it's clear-cut at all who should take the greater blame. And I hate Bryz's contract, as well, because I do agree he should be playing like a top 5 - 10 goalie, and right now he's far from it. But on the other hand, we are either spending most or second most in the league on defense (at least in terms of cap hit), and having them play like that isn't acceptable, either. Whether that's the players' fault or someone else's, I can't really say, but the whole defensive corps is as overrated as Bryz is, at least at the moment.
i know this. Just pointing out the numbers because some seem to be absolving Bryzgaliov of quite a bit of the blame of whats gone on in some of these games. His positioning and lateral movement have been horrible. His body langiage also is poor.
I just watched the last goal in the Rangers game on the 24/7 show. A NHL goalie should not be giving up that goal. Especially one who is supposed to be a top end goalie.
I am seeing a guy who right now needs to get his act together in every aspect both mentally and physically. Bryzgalov has zero ability right now to shake off a bad goal. If he gives up a softy early in a game the Flyers are toast.
If Bobrovsky plays well tomorrow night in Pittsburgh I would absolutely start Bobrovsky in the WC. Let Mr. Hollywood sit and think about his play of late.

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12-28-2011, 10:50 PM
  #729
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Originally Posted by sobrien View Post
And now I feel sympathy for him after 24/7 Christmas and family shots. Plus the dude has been the star of the series...how anti-climactic would that be if he doesn't even play in the game?!

If Bob plays well tomorrow, Bryz gets the nod for the Winter Classic, and then Bob goes for a few games after that imo.
Regardless of Bobrovsky's play tomorrow, I think Bryzgalov plays in the Winter Classic. The team will be hoping their prize acquisition puts on a display for the nationwide audience in an attempt to quiet the sceptics, but as shown by his play recently - this could very easily backfire. Personally, if Bobrovsky plays decent or better tomorrow - he's the guy I go to for a while. Let Bryzgalov take some games on the bench.

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12-28-2011, 11:01 PM
  #730
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
I agree he hasn't been playing well, but the problem is you are talking about hypothetically nullifying his contract next season after less than half a season. That seems a little absurd to me. He may not turn it around this season or even next, but I think you have to at least let him play out one full season before talking about stuff like nullifying a contract under a new CBA.

Just out of curiosity, is this nullification thing actually a possibility in the new CBA? Not saying it isn't or anything, I just haven't heard anything about it.
Nobody knows but people have been talking about it so it's not a stretch.

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12-28-2011, 11:02 PM
  #731
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
i know this. Just pointing out the numbers because some seem to be absolving Bryzgaliov of quite a bit of the blame of whats gone on in some of these games. His positioning and lateral movement have been horrible. His body langiage also is poor.
I just watched the last goal in the Rangers game on the 24/7 show. A NHL goalie should not be giving up that goal. Especially one who is supposed to be a top end goalie.
I am seeing a guy who right now needs to get his act together in every aspect both mentally and physically. Bryzgalov has zero ability right now to shake off a bad goal. If he gives up a softy early in a game the Flyers are toast.
If Bobrovsky plays well tomorrow night in Pittsburgh I would absolutely start Bobrovsky in the WC. Let Mr. Hollywood sit and think about his play of late.
I agree, he looks slow and disinterested. And I'm afraid all of this self-deprecating he shows in interviews is just going to further this downward spiral he's on.

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12-29-2011, 02:32 AM
  #732
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On Bryz:

I was against the signing before the end of last season...
I was against the contract before Homer throw it to him....
I was against a NTC before we know about it...

But...:

We loose Gagne (really good 2 way player)
We loose Richards (maybe the best 2 way center in the league)
We loose Carter (solid 2 way play)
We loose Pronger (most of the time)
We loose Odonnel (who plays solid as a rock for the most time)


We added Lilja who plays like crap
We added Schenn (with him we loose 90% of our games)
We added Walker who plays like crap
We give JVR more ice time who is not really a good defence player
We add Simmonds who is not a good defence player

I could go on and on....


We lost a lot of man games due to injuries...


So its clear we will have problems with our defense.

But Bryz is buy in to be dominant and solve the problems the roster is having in the future due to his expensive contract. So if he donīt dominate and win games for us he isnīt worth his contract...

So get him out of here although he is funny with his universe talking and all the stuff with the media... We want to win games not money with selling fan gear.... Or maybe thats the case??


just my two cents.....

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Old
12-29-2011, 07:01 AM
  #733
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Remember when we started the season and Bryz posted the shutout and the goaltending situation looked so bright?

Something went wrong with our defense and it's not just about losing Pronger - who hasn't been playing anywhere close to 100% before we lost him.
Just some observations from my side: they seem to watch the play instead of interfering way too often, no grittiness, not getting their nose dirty...we are lacking a real warrior on the blue line, someone like Derian Hatcher.

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12-29-2011, 09:14 AM
  #734
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dats81 View Post
Remember when we started the season and Bryz posted the shutout and the goaltending situation looked so bright?
Sadly the same thing almost happened with Emery if he was ever going to be a long-term solution after his one year deal. He played really well (his final record of 16-11-1, GAA 2.64, SV% .905 doesn't reflect how well he played before getting his "injury") including 3 shutouts in 29 games. Since coming back to the NHL his stats have been good (Ducks - 7-2-0, 2.28 GAA, SV% .926 and Hawks - 9-2-2, GAA 2.54, SV% .908).

Take those numbers as you will but Bryz's numbers of GAA 3.01 and SV% of .890 with 1 shutout in 26 games can show one of three things.

1) Bryz played better with the Yotes (SV% over .920, GAA under 2.50 and 15 shutouts over 2 seasons with a record of 78-40-16) for any number of reasons and he is not a top tier goalie (either due to mental things like "being lost in the woods" or playing in a different system)

or

2) The Flyer's system is not nearly as good as it was the year Emery played (the year we went to the finals after sneaking into the playoffs) and we're starting to see it level off due to injuries/trading of players (which means it's not 100% on Bryz)

or

3) Emery is a better goalie than Bryz

Personally I think it's a mixture of 1 and 2 where the system/mentality plays a huge aspect of goalie performance and the team itself does not have the same players or had to deal with the same injuries as previous years. Only time will tell due to the small sample size of games played where the end result will be largely based on whether or not we win the cup.

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Old
12-29-2011, 10:21 AM
  #735
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JXC View Post
The common factors are two:

a) they're not God, so they allow goals

b) they play in Philadelphia, where fans simply have to have someone to blame for Every. Single. Goal.

Some of these "fans" would rip Bernie Parent for surrendering a goal to Guy Lafleur on a wrister from the slot.
This is exactly my point. Goalies that are good elsewhere, come here and look bad and goalies that are BAD here, go elsewhere and look good. I will attribute bad goals to our goalies but there needs to be a recognition on behalf of the fans and on behalf of the management that there is a reason that Philadelphia Flyers + Any goalie = goaltending problems.

It simply cannot be that every goalie we sign/play is bad.

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12-29-2011, 10:32 AM
  #736
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dats81 View Post
Remember when we started the season and Bryz posted the shutout and the goaltending situation looked so bright?

Something went wrong with our defense and it's not just about losing Pronger - who hasn't been playing anywhere close to 100% before we lost him.
Just some observations from my side: they seem to watch the play instead of interfering way too often, no grittiness, not getting their nose dirty...we are lacking a real warrior on the blue line, someone like Derian Hatcher.
Someone else on here said it well - When we win and look good, we attribute that to our Defense. When we lose and look like @ss - we attribute that to bad goaltending.

I think until we hold accountability on others, the way we do on goalies (i.e. if Matt Carle has an absolutely awful game, bench him and throw him under the bus) - maybe it won't take our goalies so long to regain their stride.

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Old
12-29-2011, 02:53 PM
  #737
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Originally Posted by NewYorkFlyerFan View Post
No. The only real factor is W-L-OTL 14-8-3 SV% .890 GAA 3.01 SO 1.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
.890 3.01
Again:

If you watched the game in Tampa and you still believe in Save Pctg and GAA as measures of goaltending efffectiveness, you're better suited for bocce or curling, 'cause this sport ain't for you.

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Old
12-29-2011, 03:00 PM
  #738
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Q: Will Bryzgalov ever be worth his contract?
A: if he hoists the CUP in the series winner.

/thread

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12-29-2011, 03:27 PM
  #739
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JXC View Post
Again:

If you watched the game in Tampa and you still believe in Save Pctg and GAA as measures of goaltending efffectiveness, you're better suited for bocce or curling, 'cause this sport ain't for you.
Do explain. How are his stats not perfectly in line with his performance this year?

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12-29-2011, 03:29 PM
  #740
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Do explain. How are his stats not perfectly in line with his performance this year?
idk too, it kinda reflects he isnt doing really well, isnt it?

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12-29-2011, 03:39 PM
  #741
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JXC View Post
Again:

If you watched the game in Tampa and you still believe in Save Pctg and GAA as measures of goaltending efffectiveness, you're better suited for bocce or curling, 'cause this sport ain't for you.
so using that theory if Bryzgalov was 7-13-2 and had a GAA of 1.90 and a save percentage of .925 we could put a good amount of blame on him for losing right?

I have yet to really figure out what you are doing. I have an idea, but proving that would take for you to admit to it.

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12-29-2011, 04:56 PM
  #742
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
so using that theory if Bryzgalov was 7-13-2 and had a GAA of 1.90 and a save percentage of .925 we could put a good amount of blame on him for losing right?

I have yet to really figure out what you are doing. I have an idea, but proving that would take for you to admit to it.
No. I'd say team defense is great and we can't score. Goalie stats are LARGELY team numbers.

Goalies don't play 1 vs 5. We didnt sign an athletic goalie, bryz is NOT routinely "make saves he shouldn't". He's all position and system, and when that works, he's great.
Recently, blame him for tb goal one fine...goal 5 he had good position and a 50 goal scorer had a great shot (not to mention coburn and Liljas mixup). But vora in the slot didn't lay down blocking downies lay up goal. Crap rotation by jagr/ G leads to wide open stamkos to collect a rebound. Bad rebound on pp goes right to tb player (stamkos or maybe downie) and its a layup.

Bryz would be great if we fire lavy and bring back hitch, Stevens, or Murray. Lavy likes up tempo press...and without good forwards on D there will be bad goals.

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12-29-2011, 05:06 PM
  #743
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Has anyone here ever played goalie in organized hockey? Id love their opinion on this.

I played soccer G...and I'd be pissed when D blew a mental assignment. If a guy gets beat that's no prob, because we all get beat from time to time...but something like voracek not even laying his stick down in the slot to block the pass would infuriate me.
If the opponent makes a saucer over the stick for the layup...then you tip your hat.

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12-29-2011, 05:42 PM
  #744
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Bryz would be great if we fire lavy and bring back hitch, Stevens, or Murray. Lavy likes up tempo press...and without good forwards on D there will be bad goals.

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12-29-2011, 05:54 PM
  #745
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At the end of the day Bryz has to stop the puck. Thats what it boils down to and he just isn't doing that right now. He needs to step up and make that huge save and hasn't. This is coming from a Bryz supporter. Sv % and GAA is a good stat too because like I said before the goalie still needs to make the save in the end. The system or coaches aren't doing that for him. The system and d-man help but don't make or break a goalie. The goalie has the last say in everything.

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12-29-2011, 06:13 PM
  #746
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Originally Posted by flyersfan9180 View Post
At the end of the day Bryz has to stop the puck. Thats what it boils down to and he just isn't doing that right now. He needs to step up and make that huge save and hasn't. This is coming from a Bryz supporter. Sv % and GAA is a good stat too because like I said before the goalie still needs to make the save in the end. The system or coaches aren't doing that for him. The system and d-man help but don't make or break a goalie. The goalie has the last say in everything.
Rediculous.

Let's just have all 5 guys hang out at the blue line, waiting for the breakout? Goalies just gotta make the save....and think of the breakaways when he outlets that puck!

It's a symbiotic relationship. This isn't the mid 80s hockey.

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12-29-2011, 06:16 PM
  #747
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Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
So you fully believe that if bryz went back to a heavy d system (see phx) his stats wouldn't markedly improve?

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12-29-2011, 06:49 PM
  #748
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Rediculous.

Let's just have all 5 guys hang out at the blue line, waiting for the breakout? Goalies just gotta make the save....and think of the breakaways when he outlets that puck!

It's a symbiotic relationship. This isn't the mid 80s hockey.
lol well if thats how we played then yes I would blame our defense....

Even the GM of our team has called out Bryz and said he needs to play better. That is a indicator that he isn't playing well right there.

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Old
12-29-2011, 07:03 PM
  #749
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please remember this thread is about him being worth his contract. a goalie with his contract can't rely solely on the defense to make it easy for him and not have him make hard saves.

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12-29-2011, 07:53 PM
  #750
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Originally Posted by RevUpThoseFlyers View Post
please remember this thread is about him being worth his contract. a goalie with his contract can't rely solely on the defense to make it easy for him and not have him make hard saves.
Also remember that it is a 9 year contract, not a 35 game contract. Even if he is relegated to backup this year (which I doubt happens), he still has eight years to earn his contract.

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