HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Toronto Maple Leafs
Notices

Mediocrity not Meritocracy

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-29-2011, 04:02 PM
  #51
iPunch
Leafs Fan
 
iPunch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 22,967
vCash: 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Slick View Post
Seriously? This team could coach itself without wilson and have better records. 30th in pk, 25th in worse team defense. Good job by both Wilson and Burke.

The really sad part is, this team will make the playoffs in spite of Wilson as the coach, and of course the world will say Wilson is a good coach because they made the playoffs.
The sad thing is, people will say they made the playoffs in spite of Wilson.

How twisted is that? The man can literally do no good for some.

iPunch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-29-2011, 04:09 PM
  #52
Dreakmur
Registered User
 
Dreakmur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Orillia, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,768
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WoratCase View Post
Cox and the rest of the media are just mad that Wilson had them all scrambling on Christmas day. Their own fault for being the tools that they are. Bunch of vultures. As long as Wilson keeps making the media his *****, I'm happy to have him as coach.
Of course.... if he spend less time worrying about the media, and more time doing his job, the team might be better than mediocre.


The Leafs are once again on track to fight for a play-off spot. Their 18-14-4 record is exactly the same as the league average.

Dreakmur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-29-2011, 04:10 PM
  #53
Sam Slick*
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: St John's NL
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,639
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafidelity View Post
The sad thing is, people will say they made the playoffs in spite of Wilson.

How twisted is that? The man can literally do no good for some.
Funny thing about the truth isn't it.

All you Wilson lovers get a reality check. He has never won anything in the NHL. His record with San Jose is because he DID have good players.

Wilson's team stats speak for themselves. Read up on it. The numbers cannot be denied. He was awarded an extension on mediocre numbers. Sorry folks but thems the facts.

Sam Slick* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-29-2011, 04:10 PM
  #54
WoratCase*
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,319
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
Of course.... if he spend less time worrying about the media, and more time doing his job, the team might be better than mediocre.


The Leafs are once again on track to fight for a play-off spot. Their 18-14-4 record is exactly the same as the league average.
I'm not sure what you expected of this team. Obviously your expectations are unrealistic. Typical.

WoratCase* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-29-2011, 04:14 PM
  #55
hotpaws
Registered User
 
hotpaws's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 7,447
vCash: 1000
Quote:
Originally Posted by WoratCase View Post
As long as Wilson keeps making the media his *****, I'm happy to have him as coach.
Some fans want a coach than can develop a winning team while others are happy with this .

To each there own i guess .

hotpaws is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-29-2011, 04:16 PM
  #56
Newfie John
Hall of Famer
 
Newfie John's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,203
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Slick View Post
Funny thing about the truth isn't it.

All you Wilson lovers get a reality check. He has never won anything in the NHL. His record with San Jose is because he DID have good players.

Wilson's team stats speak for themselves. Read up on it. The numbers cannot be denied. He was awarded an extension on mediocre numbers. Sorry folks but thems the facts.
So good players is the only reason why he did well in San Jose.

But bad players is not an excuse for his time in Toronto (despite having great 5 on 5/PP stats).

Tough to argue with logic like that.

Newfie John is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-29-2011, 04:18 PM
  #57
hotpaws
Registered User
 
hotpaws's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 7,447
vCash: 1000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newfie John View Post
So good players is the only reason why he did well in San Jose.

But bad players is not an excuse for his time in Toronto (despite having great 5 on 5/PP stats).

Tough to argue with logic like that.
So your saying that coaching has zero to do with how a team performs ?

hotpaws is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-29-2011, 04:18 PM
  #58
Newfie John
Hall of Famer
 
Newfie John's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,203
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotpaws View Post
Some fans want a coach than can develop a winning team while others are happy with this .

To each there own i guess .
Some more faulty logic for us.

Because he likes the way Wilson draws the ire of the media, therefore automatically means that he does not want to watch a winning team?

Again.. tough to argue with such bulletproof logic.

Newfie John is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-29-2011, 04:20 PM
  #59
WoratCase*
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,319
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotpaws View Post
Some fans want a coach than can develop a winning team while others are happy with this .

To each there own i guess .
The team is right where I expect them to be so Wilson trolling the media is a bonus. Last time I checked this team isn't a losing team. They're 18-14-4 which is .500 in my eyes but others may consider them a winning team. Not a losing team, though. So sick of Leaf fans being unrealistic and making us all look bad.

WoratCase* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-29-2011, 04:21 PM
  #60
Newfie John
Hall of Famer
 
Newfie John's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,203
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotpaws View Post
So your saying that coaching has zero to do with how a team performs ?
Yes. Precisely.


Last edited by MoreMogilny: 12-29-2011 at 04:48 PM. Reason: OT talk
Newfie John is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-29-2011, 04:23 PM
  #61
iPunch
Leafs Fan
 
iPunch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 22,967
vCash: 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Slick View Post
Funny thing about the truth isn't it.

All you Wilson lovers get a reality check. He has never won anything in the NHL. His record with San Jose is because he DID have good players.

Wilson's team stats speak for themselves. Read up on it. The numbers cannot be denied. He was awarded an extension on mediocre numbers. Sorry folks but thems the facts.
Yeah only only stumbled onto these thing;

Regular season games coached
1337 (6th alltime)

Regular season coaching wins
619 (7th alltime)

But I guess he's been employed all this time because he's Burkes buddy right?

Guy gets the Larry Murphy treatment from absolutely psychotic fans. A 1 year extension and people want to fire the GM? All failure but no success should be credited to Wilson? Do you people even realize how unstable you sound?

Do I think he's the best coach in of all time? Ofcourse not, but I realize you can't place 100% of the blame for a game played on the ice on a man standing on the bench. Wilson should take some blame, but so should that personnel that can't execute. I'm not going to fly off the handle because the GM has decided to stay the course for a team that is just now finding an identity.

Burke decides to stay the course, because he has a young playoff-projected team, and some of you act like he's set the building on fire and locked everyone in.

Get ahold of yourselves and learn a little tact, it's freaking embarrassing to other Leafs fans.

iPunch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-29-2011, 04:25 PM
  #62
iPunch
Leafs Fan
 
iPunch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 22,967
vCash: 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Slick View Post
Funny thing about the truth isn't it.

All you Wilson lovers get a reality check. He has never won anything in the NHL. His record with San Jose is because he DID have good players.

Wilson's team stats speak for themselves. Read up on it. The numbers cannot be denied. He was awarded an extension on mediocre numbers. Sorry folks but thems the facts.
Yeah only only stumbled onto these thing;

Regular season games coached
1337 (6th alltime)

Regular season coaching wins
619 (7th alltime)

But I guess he's been employed all this time because he's Burkes buddy right?

Guy gets the Larry Murphy treatment from absolutely psychotic fans. A 1 year extension and people want to fire the GM? All failure but no success should be credited to Wilson? Do you people even realize how unstable you sound?

Do I think he's the best coach in of all time? Ofcourse not, but I realize you can't place 100% of the blame for a game played on the ice on a man standing on the bench. Wilson should take some blame, but so should that personnel that can't execute. I'm not going to fly off the handle because the GM has decided to stay the course for a team that is just now finding an identity.

Burke decides to stay the course, because he has a young playoff-projected team, and some of you act like he's set the building on fire and locked everyone in.

Get ahold of yourselves and learn a little tact, it's freaking embarrassing to other Leafs fans.

iPunch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-29-2011, 04:27 PM
  #63
The Blue Devil
Registered User
 
The Blue Devil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 5,529
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Slick View Post
Funny thing about the truth isn't it.

All you Wilson lovers get a reality check. He has never won anything in the NHL. His record with San Jose is because he DID have good players.

Wilson's team stats speak for themselves. Read up on it. The numbers cannot be denied. He was awarded an extension on mediocre numbers. Sorry folks but thems the facts.
So he's not supposed to win with good players?

The Blue Devil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-29-2011, 04:28 PM
  #64
hotpaws
Registered User
 
hotpaws's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 7,447
vCash: 1000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newfie John View Post
Some more faulty logic for us.

Because he likes the way Wilson draws the ire of the media, therefore automatically means that he does not want to watch a winning team?

Again.. tough to argue with such bulletproof logic.
He said Ronnie was his man as long as he keeps ****ing with the media . He didn't say anything about winning being a criteria for employment with the leafs .

Also lets start being honest shall we .

Burkies fan club will support Wilson as coach up to the second his BFF fires him and not a second longer .

hotpaws is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-29-2011, 04:38 PM
  #65
WoratCase*
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,319
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotpaws View Post
He said Ronnie was his man as long as he keeps ****ing with the media . He didn't say anything about winning being a criteria for employment with the leafs .

Also lets start being honest shall we .

Burkies fan club will support Wilson as coach up to the second his BFF fires him and not a second longer .
I'm actually not fond of Wilson as coach. The fact is this team is playing on par or better than expected. Yes the PK is bad but other than that, what more does this coach have to do. You really didn't think this team would be top 5 in the conference, did you? I guess you're just another unrealistic Leaf fan.

There are at the very least 6 teams in the East with more talent and better goaltending. The Leafs sit in 7th place and have been 6th for a while. The team is ahead of some more talented teams. You don't want to look at that though. I have news for you:

The Leafs Aren't Going To Win Every Game!

Smarten up.

WoratCase* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-29-2011, 04:40 PM
  #66
hotpaws
Registered User
 
hotpaws's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 7,447
vCash: 1000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafidelity View Post
Yeah only only stumbled onto these thing;

Regular season games coached
1337 (6th alltime)

Regular season coaching wins
619 (7th alltime)

But I guess he's been employed all this time because he's Burkes buddy right?

Guy gets the Larry Murphy treatment from absolutely psychotic fans. A 1 year extension and people want to fire the GM? All failure but no success should be credited to Wilson? Do you people even realize how unstable you sound?

Do I think he's the best coach in of all time? Ofcourse not, but I realize you can't place 100% of the blame for a game played on the ice on a man standing on the bench. Wilson should take some blame, but so should that personnel that can't execute. I'm not going to fly off the handle because the GM has decided to stay the course for a team that is just now finding an identity.

Burke decides to stay the course, because he has a young playoff-projected team, and some of you act like he's set the building on fire and locked everyone in.

Get ahold of yourselves and learn a little tact, it's freaking embarrassing to other Leafs fans.
I remember the Raptors had one of the all time winningest coach's as well . He was well past his prime by the time he was hired here however .

Any reason why you left off where he stands on all time losses .

hotpaws is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-29-2011, 04:44 PM
  #67
ECanuck
Registered User
 
ECanuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Hamilton
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,505
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mogwai View Post
Pretty true.

Wilson's extension is nothing more than guaranteed money for next year from his best friend. Hell, I'd do the same, considering he might get fired anyway.
Burke is a good man. Brian "Santa Claus" Burke.

ECanuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-29-2011, 04:47 PM
  #68
hotpaws
Registered User
 
hotpaws's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 7,447
vCash: 1000
Quote:
Originally Posted by WoratCase View Post
I'm actually not fond of Wilson as coach. The fact is this team is playing on par or better than expected. Yes the PK is bad but other than that, what more does this coach have to do. You really didn't think this team would be top 5 in the conference, did you? I guess you're just another unrealistic Leaf fan.

There are at the very least 6 teams in the East with more talent and better goaltending. The Leafs sit in 7th place and have been 6th for a while. The team is ahead of some more talented teams. You don't want to look at that though. I have news for you:

The Leafs Aren't Going To Win Every Game!

Smarten up.
Come on Worat , you don't give a damn about Wilson . You're only defending him because Burkie hasn't turfed him yet .

hotpaws is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-29-2011, 04:56 PM
  #69
Joey Hoser
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Guelph
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,194
vCash: 500
Quote:
It matters not, this contract extension Ron Wilson is gloating over. Or at least, it changes nothing.

He makes the playoffs, he'll stay as Leaf coach. He misses, he won't.
Quote:
What does matter, in a larger sense, is that this is an undeniable instance of Burke's hockey club openly embracing mediocrity.
If he's still going to be let go if they fail to make the playoffs, how on earth is this an embrace of mediocrity?

His article could have made sense had he left out the first quote.

Joey Hoser is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-29-2011, 04:59 PM
  #70
WoratCase*
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,319
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotpaws View Post
Come on Worat , you don't give a damn about Wilson . You're only defending him because Burkie hasn't turfed him yet .
I'm not defending anything. Just stating facts. Your weak answer just shows me that no matter what Wilson does, you will hate him. I DO NOT LIKE WILSON AS A COACH. The thing is this team is playing on par or above expectations. I'm not just going to rip the coach because I don't like him. I'm giving him credit where credit is due. If Wilson would have gotten a 3 year term,say, then it would be a problem. A one year extension is understandable at this point. Unlike you, I don't base my opinions on pre-conceived notions. You just hate to hate, I don't.

WoratCase* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-29-2011, 05:16 PM
  #71
Dayjobdave
Registered User
 
Dayjobdave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,789
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueBaron View Post
It was a short sighted artical showing no understanding of the bench dynamic. To compare the coach to Grabo or Liles....

The term lame duck coach exists for a reason, never heard the term lame duck 3rd line center before, and with good reason.

Coaches need some degree of security to have credibility with their players, "why change your game or your approach when this clown could be gone next year" is the thinking. Unless Cox has a share in the ownership why the hell should he care that Wilson got a 1 year extention that could have him fired at any time ? Makes 0 sense. And don't kid yourselves, if Wilson is fired he would not be unemployed for very long anyway so it costs the Leafs nothing to make this move while strengthening Wilsons bench presence for the short term.

How can anyone be bothered by this ?
^^this^^

Bearing this in mind, extending Wilson increases the likelihood that players will listen to him. This increases the likelihood of success. Considering a one year extension is roughly equivalent to the profits from one period of playoff hockey, that makes this a pretty good bet.

Cox is just wrong.

Dayjobdave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-29-2011, 05:20 PM
  #72
rustysvetz
Registered User
 
rustysvetz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 83
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotpaws View Post
I remember the Raptors had one of the all time winningest coach's as well . He was well past his prime by the time he was hired here however .

Any reason why you left off where he stands on all time losses .
Worst argument ever. Said it before and I will say it again: most coaches don't have a job in the nhl long enough to accumulate as many losses

rustysvetz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-29-2011, 05:26 PM
  #73
Ari91
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,443
vCash: 500
As usual, the article as so many holes to it. Cox would at least be a semi-decent journalist if he knew how to put across his opinions objectively and not double speak. Mentioning Wilson gloating over his extenstion - just an example of why the article reeks of personal attack rather than providing objective perspective. I would care less if a journalist was bias but at least owned up to it. Cox's work reeks of bias but he tries to dress it up in objectivity and fails miserably.

Cox did a previous article that suggested that Wilson was finally given a fair chance with a roster that is capable of making playoffs. If Cox has recognized that Wilson's past rosters extremely limited Wilson's ability to help coach into the post-season, why is he using Wilson's past record in Toronto as a jab at him? Cox can't seem to keep track of the things he writes.

And the biggest flaw to his argument is that he admits to believing that if Wilson fails to take the team to the playoffs, he will be fired - so how does this embrace mediocrity if you are openly acknowledging that despite the contract, Wilson's job is not guaranteed?

Ari91 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-29-2011, 05:29 PM
  #74
thewave
Registered User
 
thewave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 8,707
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darylman View Post
In no way is it "your money". That's ludicrous. It's their money and they can do with it what they like. The Ducks extended Carlyle for 3 years and then fired him. OMG WHERES THE UPROARRRR.

Your second point is competely lost on me. Vancouver's building blocks were all put into place by Burke/Nonis, are you saying you think they are simultaneously incapable of doing their jobs AND geniuses? Bravo sir.
It is the fan's money. No fans no money, our money that keeps the team going. If it were other markets the people would turn to another product and the stadium empty.

I have never said Burke sucks. Burke gets it done so lets be clear on that. I have always been saying it's a coaching issue not a Burke issue. Where did you ever get that I am saying they are incapable of doing their jobs?

Burke IS keeping his buddy around though and the unwillingness to play a more defensive game is not working. It will never work, and Wilson will have to be fired but now will get severance. Fan money. Your money, my money, our money. It's bad business period.

thewave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-29-2011, 05:39 PM
  #75
hotpaws
Registered User
 
hotpaws's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 7,447
vCash: 1000
Quote:
Originally Posted by WoratCase View Post
I'm not defending anything. Just stating facts. Your weak answer just shows me that no matter what Wilson does, you will hate him. I DO NOT LIKE WILSON AS A COACH. The thing is this team is playing on par or above expectations. I'm not just going to rip the coach because I don't like him. I'm giving him credit where credit is due. If Wilson would have gotten a 3 year term,say, then it would be a problem. A one year extension is understandable at this point. Unlike you, I don't base my opinions on pre-conceived notions. You just hate to hate, I don't.
Your saying the team is performing up to expectations but you still don't like him as a coach yet your happy he was extended as long as it was for only one year (hopefully).

Kind of all over the place arn't you .

If you think he's doing a good job then why don't you like him and why wouldn't you want him extended for a longer period ?

hotpaws is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:35 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.