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Old
12-28-2011, 06:36 PM
  #76
J17 Vs Proclamation
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Originally Posted by SoupyFIN View Post
I would kill to have him on this team. Like I said earlier, he is a lot like Tootoo but with more skill. I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up playing for the senior team in the WCs this spring.
The Forwards are very talented. I wouldn't want Armia personally, but he does have high end skill. Markus Granlund will definitely be a national team player one day, although his NHL prospects rely on gaining physical strength. Barkov obviously will be a potential Top 5 selection next year. Teravainen is an interesting Forward too from what i've heard.

I think the Finns can medal under the right circumstances here. All of the big 4 have their weaknesses and with Junior hockey (and short tournaments) consistency can go amiss. You'll just need consistent Goaltending, the type of D you got today (which was very good, though with such a young unit it may be difficult to maintain) and consistent output from the big Forwards.

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12-28-2011, 06:52 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by J17 Vs Proclamation View Post
I wouldn't want Armia personally, but he does have high end skill.
Me neither. He is waaaay too streaky for my taste. On top of that, he plays for Ässät which my team played against a qualifying series to the FEL (bottom team of FEL vs winner of Mestis- 2nd highest league) a couple years ago. We lost in Game 7.
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Markus Granlund will definitely be a national team player one day, although his NHL prospects rely on gaining physical strength.
Markus is a case of flipping a coin. It could go either way, and you can't say which way surely yet.
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Barkov obviously will be a potential Top 5 selection next year.
Barkov is a beast. Playing in FEL at the age of 16 and semi-dominating against men. I've said it before, if there is ever to come a 1st overall pick out of Finland- Barkov is that guy.
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Teravainen is an interesting Forward too from what i've heard.
Teräväinen could have easily made the team, if there only was a spot available in the top6. He would have been wasted in the bottom6.

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12-28-2011, 08:08 PM
  #78
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Watched about half the game - our US team didn't play badly on offense, but the defense is prone to mistakes, and Finland played a very patient game (read: trap, they played with 3 men back at all times, collapsing toward the net to choke off all shooting lanes and be first to any rebounds, hence the reason the US team couldn't score). Team USA hung in there though and tied the game, but then that stupid penalty by Gibson...somehow it threw off the team's chemistry and they started making more mistakes. Next thing you knew Finland found their way to the net 3 times and put it way out of reach as the American kids started forcing the play more and making even more mistakes, falling apart, trying to get fancy instead of keeping it simple, playing more individually, and just generally showing a lack of discipline.

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12-28-2011, 08:21 PM
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Count me in on the Huberdeau hype train

He's going to be really special for you folks!

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12-28-2011, 08:23 PM
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Count me in on the Huberdeau hype train

He's going to be really special for you folks!
Yeah, he keeps racking up the points.

Who has Stone? He's been lights out.

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12-28-2011, 08:42 PM
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Yeah, he keeps racking up the points.

Who has Stone? He's been lights out.
Ottawa, sixth-round pick.

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12-29-2011, 12:53 PM
  #82
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Anyone know of a site that has actual statistics, or can anyone post stats for the Panthers' prospects in the tournament? All I've been able to find are game summaries and standings, I want to know goal and assist totals.

Don't think Howden got on the scoresheet at all last night, but I did see him on the ice for one of Canada's goals.

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12-29-2011, 12:54 PM
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Anyone know of a site that has actual statistics, or can anyone post stats for the Panthers' prospects in the tournament? All I've been able to find are game summaries and standings, I want to know goal and assist totals.
iihf.com

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12-29-2011, 01:06 PM
  #84
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Anyone know of a site that has actual statistics, or can anyone post stats for the Panthers' prospects in the tournament? All I've been able to find are game summaries and standings, I want to know goal and assist totals.
http://panthers.nhl.com/club/page.ht...id=DL|FLA|home

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12-29-2011, 01:17 PM
  #85
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nice even better thnx

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12-29-2011, 03:26 PM
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Me neither. He is waaaay too streaky for my taste. On top of that, he plays for Ässät which my team played against a qualifying series to the FEL (bottom team of FEL vs winner of Mestis- 2nd highest league) a couple years ago. We lost in Game 7.
I assume that must have been the deciding game before the league is closed from promotion/relegation. Who is your team? To me i don't understand the prevention of promotion and relegation. It may work in NA because there is no history of it, but once it is there, you cannot take it away.


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Markus is a case of flipping a coin. It could go either way, and you can't say which way surely yet.
It will come down to dedication, physical training and a little bit of luck. Enough skills are there.

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Barkov is a beast. Playing in FEL at the age of 16 and semi-dominating against men. I've said it before, if there is ever to come a 1st overall pick out of Finland- Barkov is that guy.
Does need to improve his skating. That's the main issue with his game. Isn't he a few weeks from the cutout for the 2014 draft? It's weird because he happens to fall within an absolutely loaded North American Forward draft. A developed 18 yr old Barkov (if we assume projections go according to plan) would be in contention for #1 overall this year due to the lack of elite North American Forwards. Unfortunately 2013 has 5 or 6 outstanding North American Forwards, so i don't think he'll go #1. Yet he has to be a Top 5 selection right now.

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Teräväinen could have easily made the team, if there only was a spot available in the top6. He would have been wasted in the bottom6.
Will be interesting to see where his draft stock heads. He's seen some SM-Liga time recently, and will need to stabilise his place there if he wishes to go 1st round.

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12-29-2011, 03:32 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Acadmus View Post
Anyone know of a site that has actual statistics, or can anyone post stats for the Panthers' prospects in the tournament? All I've been able to find are game summaries and standings, I want to know goal and assist totals.

Don't think Howden got on the scoresheet at all last night, but I did see him on the ice for one of Canada's goals.
He got an assist

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12-29-2011, 03:37 PM
  #88
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I didn't watch the Canada/Czech game (Frankly, i don't enjoy watching Canada win) but i watched the other 3 games.

Finland were much better against the US. Against Canada they were awful. So bad. I think they have the tools to win a medal, but i struggle to see them winning the Gold because i think it will be difficult for all their units to remain consistent.

Russia were so lazy against Slovakia. The forwards skate the puck beautifully through the neutral zone, glide around in the Offensize zone as much as they want, but then look like they can barely be bothered to do anything else. And when a pass was made to create a chance, the player would rather fumble it, or hold, skate around again. Rince and repeat. Skate, skate, sigh, pass, skate, skate, turn over or bad shot. Kuznetsov did this all game. Kucherov apparently lost his ability to control the puck. Telegin was smoking dope. Yakupov apparently just wanted to skate and play ice hockey without a puck. Grigorenko i was actually very impressed with, he wasn't exactly on full throttle. Gusev thought he was hand gliding. Koko was doing the hoovering. Kulikov was making some toast. Barbashev was taking a bath. I just don't understand what they were doing.

Kosov was actually very good. Really physical, nice drive to the net, good puck skills. I think he has a chance to be a critical member of the Russian squad. Overall i think the Russians can still win gold, but you better hope they are nearly through their 2 week cruise in the south pacific.

Sweden was nearly as lazy too. The D was really sloppy and their Goaltending was pretty poor. Friberg was hilarious. Sundstrom and Rakell were really dangerous.

I onlu caught the 2nd half of the US game, but it seemed they lacked any real penetration. Not many high quality chances. Their D made some bad turnovers though. But again i expect them to come out of cruise control.

Basically, 3 of the Big 4 in this event are too busy banging the hell out of an attractive receptionist to realise they have a family at home that needs care.

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12-29-2011, 05:21 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SensFanatic
Count me in on the Huberdeau hype train

He's going to be really special for you folks!
Watched the Canada - Czech game last night. Actually for a 5-0 game it was really good, 1-0 till about half.

Hubs is unreal! He seems like the ultimate playmaker. Strong on the puck, and extra lanky for that great reach. I was basically drooling last night watching him play. To me, Stone doesn't look that great, he basically has to tap in open net goals that Hubs sets him up for. Where you really get to notice him playmaking is behind the net. He looks like a bigger Gretzky behind there. Just wait untill he puts on a couple Lbs.

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Don't think Howden got on the scoresheet at all last night, but I did see him on the ice for one of Canada's goals.
From watching all the games last year that I remember, and so far this year, Howden probably played his worst game last night 5-on-5. A couple times he couldn't get the puck out, and made a poor pass or two. Also remember him getting knocked off the puck a couple times. That being said, on the PK he is great! Real good instincts and positioning, and not afraid to drop down a block a shot.
I'm sure he just had an off night last night.

Won't be watching the Canada game tonight, as I'm at work. Also I don't bother watching them play teams like Denmark, and I'm sure they will post at least 10 goals.

I will be watching New Years Eve against the US, probably like most of you.

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12-29-2011, 06:04 PM
  #90
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I assume that must have been the deciding game before the league is closed from promotion/relegation. Who is your team? To me i don't understand the prevention of promotion and relegation. It may work in NA because there is no history of it, but once it is there, you cannot take it away.
SM-Liiga (FEL) was open for promotion/relegation until 2000 when it was closed, though KalPa got promoted (they didn't even have to qualify, just win Mestis..) during the NHL lock-out season when they had players like Kimmo Timonen, Sami Kapanen and Adam Hall playing for them. It was opened again for the 2008-2009 season, 2 bottom FEL-teams would play a "play-out" series best of 5 with the losing team facing the winner Mestis.

We had our hopes up, Ässät had been terrible all season long and it had been a long time since the 1975-1976 season which was the last and sadly the only season we have ever played in FEL. The series was nasty, highlighted by poor refs and the battle between the two teams coaches in the media. Heading into Game 6, we had the series lead 3-2, and our hopes of promotion were crushed in OT as we hit the post and Ässät scored soon after that to win the game 2-3 in OT. We never recovered from that, and Ässät won Game 7 3-0 at home.

We reached the promotion-series again this year, but the sheer difference nowadays between Sm-Liiga and Mestis is just too high, and we got swept 4-0.

http://www.eliteprospects.com/team.php?team=423
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sport_%28Vaasa%29

Some stats for the team:

Finland2 (Mestis) Champion, Gold: 1975 (known then as I-division), 2009, 2011
Finland2 2nd place, Silver: 1977&2000 (I-division), 2005, 2006
Finland2 3rd place, Bronze: 1999 (I-division), 2007
Finland3 (Suomi-sarja) Champion: 1986&1997 (known then as II-division)

And of course, my avatar is the logo of Sport.

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Old
12-29-2011, 06:17 PM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoupyFIN View Post
SM-Liiga (FEL) was open for promotion/relegation until 2000 when it was closed, though KalPa got promoted (they didn't even have to qualify, just win Mestis..) during the NHL lock-out season when they had players like Kimmo Timonen, Sami Kapanen and Adam Hall playing for them. It was opened again for the 2008-2009 season, 2 bottom FEL-teams would play a "play-out" series best of 5 with the losing team facing the winner Mestis.

We had our hopes up, Ässät had been terrible all season long and it had been a long time since the 1975-1976 season which was the last and sadly the only season we have ever played in FEL. The series was nasty, highlighted by poor refs and the battle between the two teams coaches in the media. Heading into Game 6, we had the series lead 3-2, and our hopes of promotion were crushed in OT as we hit the post and Ässät scored soon after that to win the game 2-3 in OT. We never recovered from that, and Ässät won Game 7 3-0 at home.

We reached the promotion-series again this year, but the sheer difference nowadays between Sm-Liiga and Mestis is just too high, and we got swept 4-0.

http://www.eliteprospects.com/team.php?team=423
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sport_%28Vaasa%29

Some stats for the team:

Finland2 (Mestis) Champion, Gold: 1975 (known then as I-division), 2009, 2011
Finland2 2nd place, Silver: 1977&2000 (I-division), 2005, 2006
Finland2 3rd place, Bronze: 1999 (I-division), 2007
Finland3 (Suomi-sarja) Champion: 1986&1997 (known then as II-division)

And of course, my avatar is the logo of Sport.
Interesting indeed. SEL-2 teams are much more known than Mestis teams. If im not mistaken Byrnas were there until recently, whilst Malmo/Leksand are the big guns down there now (AIK were until two years ago) whilst Rogle in the 2nd tier has an excellent Junior system coming through. What this tells me is that having a stable solid high quality 2nd division allows greater competition and more incentive. This has a big impact on Junior development. A unclosed 2nd league can generate more revenue, big teams who are relegated down don't automatically lose fan support, and there is a reason to invest in youth. I imagine those teams in Mestis have no reason to develop their own talent, and many become the place where SM-LIGA clubs send many youngsters (Pokka for instance this year). Although i am not particulay educated enough on the dealings of the clubs and relationship with SM-Liga, so perhaps i am wrong here

To me it just ruins competition, youth development and finances of those below the closed elite.

Now im not a Junior hockey expert, but this closed around the time when Youth development in Finland began to struggle. Clearly the specifics Finland focused on (Playing time for all, not concentrating on the elite etc) played heavily here, but perhaps it has some link? I don't know what the 2nd tier teams were like in developing talent before the closed league.

I think Assat have to be my Finnish team now


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Old
12-29-2011, 06:48 PM
  #92
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Interesting indeed. SEL-2 teams are much more known than Mestis teams. If im not mistaken Byrnas were there until recently, whilst Malmo/Leksand are the big guns down there now (AIK were until two years ago) whilst Rogle in the 2nd tier has an excellent Junior system coming through. What this tells me is that having a stable solid high quality 2nd division allows greater competition and more incentive. This has a big impact on Junior development. A unclosed 2nd league can generate more revenue, big teams who are relegated down don't automatically lose fan support, and there is a reason to invest in youth. I imagine those teams in Mestis have no reason to develop their own talent, and many become the place where SM-LIGA clubs send many youngsters (Pokka for instance this year). Although i am not particulay educated enough on the dealings of the clubs and relationship with SM-Liga, so perhaps i am wrong here

To me it just ruins competition, youth development and finances of those below the closed elite.

Now im not a Junior hockey expert, but this closed around the time when Youth development in Finland began to struggle. Clearly the specifics Finland focused on (Playing time for all, not concentrating on the elite etc) played heavily here, but perhaps it has some link? I don't know what the 2nd tier teams were like in developing talent before the closed league.

I think Assat have to be my Finnish team now
IIRC Sweden has a system that drops the bottom team of SEL without a qualifying-series and the winner of Allsvenskan goes directly to Elitserien.

I can't really either say if it has affected the junior-development, but the relegation thing prior to 2000 included the usual suspects year in and year out, KalPa & SaiPa & Pelicans. There were some current Mestis teams in FEL during the 90s for a short period, KooKoo & Jokipojat & TuTo IIRC.

But Sport is probably the only team currently in Mestis that could take the leap to Sm-Liiga without a bankruptcy, though we have had our fair share of financial problems during the last few years thanks to our crazy ex GM/HC Tamminen. We have a large enough arena, though it would be the smallest one in FEL my some 50 seats. Our fans (fanatic ones are called Red Army) are said to be one of the loudest and best in finnish hockey, and the arena is pretty often sold-out (4448 total) and during the playoffs it's really hard to get tickets.

But before this thread goes all OT, let's talk about the WJCs.

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Old
12-29-2011, 11:08 PM
  #93
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Two points tonight for Howden he's getting better every game. Although, it was against Denmark tonight, so that's not a very good measuring stick.
The game got boring quite fast, so I didn't watch a lot of it.

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12-30-2011, 01:21 AM
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Just came back from the Russia Latvia game, I met Brian Skrudland before the game, still in disbelief that I met him, he was talking with Scott Luce and some other scouts, couldn't have been nicer group of guys.

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12-30-2011, 07:09 AM
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Just came back from the Russia Latvia game, I met Brian Skrudland before the game, still in disbelief that I met him, he was talking with Scott Luce and some other scouts, couldn't have been nicer group of guys.
Cool ,where were you sitting? I was in a private suite for that game so it made the 14-0 game bearable Kosov I believe scored one of those 14 on a one timer, but it was hard to keep track.

I've been to best game of tournament so far in Sweden and Swiss and then the biggest blowout tonight. I can't wait to see Sweden-Russia New Years Eve (1st level for $35). The 50/50 tix are going to be nuts...maybe close to 100 grand?? I wish Markstrom was still playing


--Hopefully you let him know there are some die hard Panthers fans up here since the very beginning when he was Captain

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12-30-2011, 06:20 PM
  #96
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USA disappoints too much in the wjc, its maddening. They should have beaten finland and Czech, no excuses. Tbh I really didn't like this lineup either, poorly constructed. Sucks that Bjugstad never really got back into his groove in this tourney, just coming off an upper body injury. He didn't look like himself. The US was counting heavily on production from him. Rau probably exceeded expectations though. Rooting for Hubey and Howden now.

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12-30-2011, 07:10 PM
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USA disappoints too much in the wjc, its maddening. They should have beaten finland and Czech, no excuses. Tbh I really didn't like this lineup either, poorly constructed. Sucks that Bjugstad never really got back into his groove in this tourney, just coming off an upper body injury. He didn't look like himself. The US was counting heavily on production from him. Rau probably exceeded expectations though. Rooting for Hubey and Howden now.
really sucks indeed...Bjugs is playing in the Rau line though no?

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12-30-2011, 07:22 PM
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really sucks indeed...Bjugs is playing in the Rau line though no?
Mostly, but he didn't assist on all his goals. Nick didn't play badly, but he wasn't himself. A 100% Bjugstad could have done a lot more for this team. He did not look sharp at all at times.

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12-30-2011, 07:56 PM
  #99
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I said the last game that I didn't think this team was very good, apparently was true. Didn't see them standing a chance against Canada. Fell asleep at 2-2, woke up to 5-2 with 20 seconds left. Sucks.

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12-31-2011, 01:41 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by Markstrom Rules View Post
USA disappoints too much in the wjc, its maddening. They should have beaten finland and Czech, no excuses. Tbh I really didn't like this lineup either, poorly constructed. Sucks that Bjugstad never really got back into his groove in this tourney, just coming off an upper body injury. He didn't look like himself. The US was counting heavily on production from him. Rau probably exceeded expectations though. Rooting for Hubey and Howden now.
Rau exceeded expecations in that he made the team. Otherwise he was rather meaningless. I didn't see the Denmark game (although, assessing anything from Denmark is rather redundant) but he was rather useless against Finland and The Czech Republic. Gudbranson4prez said he was to have a Jordan Eberle type performance. Well, you could argue he was correct. Eberle wasn't eligible, and didn't have an impact. Niether did Rau.

Of course the US was percieved as a strong contender for a medal this year, but the defeat to Finland isn't that shocking. Finland has a talented team and the score against Canada in no way resembles the actual talent they have. The Czech defeat was suprising, but when you run into a hot goaltender, clinical finishing and lack any real creativity then anything is possible.

The US to me just looked weak. Alot of shots, but i felt few were high calibre opportunities, or rather, few were bourne out of creativity and high end ability. Both Sweden and Russia have sleepwalked through the event so far, but seemed to display more flare and gamebreaking ability than the US. Etem, Saad, Bjugstad were all rather inept ; all the supposed high end guys.

Anyway, it's good for international hockey that this can happen. The Czechs still aren't really close to turning the development system around, its still years away, but it's good to see some development.

I would be prepared to have eat Cauliflower and learn how to iron if it meant Canada doesn't win Gold.

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