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At what point does Kopitar take responsibility?

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Old
12-30-2011, 07:46 PM
  #51
123slam
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Kopitar has taken over the games. Richardson is non an NHL starter and the fact that he's on the first line beefing every opportunity is telling enough. Nevermind the fact that he scored a goal the other day. Everyone knows Richardson didn't touch that puck including himself from what he said in his interview. It was Voinov's goal.
Yup...

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12-30-2011, 07:48 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by 123slam View Post
Seriously? He's echelons above Kopi's level. Better fitness, better speed, better passing/playmaking ability, better "hero" ability to put the game on his shoulders. You cray!

Edit: You added more to your post, which I agree with. It is will and desire, but Crosby is 10x the talent Kopi is.

Also, I know we've all seen Kopitar try to take over games (sometimes, not as often as we would like), and everytime he does so, I feel like his wingers just **** it up for him. .02.
What about a guy like Toews then? Is his success because he has Kane, Hossa, and Sharp around him? I think it may be partially due to his supporting cast, but there is something else there with Toews that Kopitar is missing IMO.

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12-30-2011, 07:50 PM
  #53
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Kopitar has taken over the games. Richardson is non an NHL starter and the fact that he's on the first line beefing every opportunity is telling enough. Nevermind the fact that he scored a goal the other day. Everyone knows Richardson didn't touch that puck including himself from what he said in his interview. It was Voinov's goal.
Six Years, Brad has not been his winger for Six years. The point is Kopitar does this EVERY YEAR.

No matter what Winger he has, He has had NHL caliber Wingers on his line for periods at a time. It happens EVERY YEAR.

That is what people are upset with.

Which again Kopitar has to DECIDE he is tired of sucking for Two months out of the season.

No Sniper in the NHL is going to change that for Kopitar.

Kopitar has to take ownership of his annual slump and DECIDE he doesn't want to do it anymore.

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12-30-2011, 07:52 PM
  #54
Chazz Reinhold
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I didn't realize Richardson has been on Kopitar's wing all 17 games...

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12-30-2011, 07:52 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
What about a guy like Toews then? Is his success because he has Kane, Hossa, and Sharp around him? I think it may be partially due to his supporting cast, but there is something else there with Toews that Kopitar is missing IMO.
Yeah, Toews is more creative, and I think we saw flashes of that earlier in Kopi's career...but I really think his supporting cast and the offensive system has made him go away from that. Maybe bringing in some more creative players will help Kopi and will push him to work on it.

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12-30-2011, 07:54 PM
  #56
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I think Kopi not scoring in 17 games has clouded some judgment around here. Kopi is RARELY invisible on the ice...IMO his effort has increased tremendously over the years. He could've easily had 7-8 goals in this slump, the puck jsut hasn't been going in. Effort can only help so much.

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12-30-2011, 07:55 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Chazz Reinhold View Post
Apparently you don't see that pattern that Kopitar goes into long slumps like this EVERY season, despite who is on his wings.
Again, you don't have anything to prove your point. Because that "despite who is on his wings" is never there. You could ONLY prove it by having good wingers playing great and Kopitar playing badly. That is the ONLY way you can prove that. Seriously.

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Has he ever had a season when he hasn't disappeared for around 6 weeks?
Disappearing would suggest that he also plays no defense. It would be hard to have 5th best PK in the league with him playing no defense, considering his PK TOI.

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What is the difference between his wingers in October and his wingers in December?
I will tell you what. They started playing much worse. You can't say that Williams today is the same as Williams in October. If you don't think that difference is important...

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12-30-2011, 08:01 PM
  #58
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still don't understand all the kopi backlash. he still on pace for what he has done in his career. His face off percentage has improved, what more do you want from the guy.

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12-30-2011, 08:03 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by bobafettish View Post
still don't understand all the kopi backlash. he still on pace for what he has done in his career. His face off percentage has improved, what more do you want from the guy.
A season where he doesn't disappear Goal wise for four to six weeks.

One of these years Kopitar will decide he doesn't like this annual Goal slumps.


Last edited by damacles1156: 12-30-2011 at 08:10 PM.
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12-30-2011, 08:14 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
A season where he doesn't disappear Goal wise for four to six weeks.

One of these years Kopitar will decide he doesn't like this annual Goal slumps.
You think he likes it? Guaranteed he's absolutely pissed, but there's only so much he can do with Richie and Brownie on his line.

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12-30-2011, 08:14 PM
  #61
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Again, you don't have anything to prove your point. Because that "despite who is on his wings" is never there. You could ONLY prove it by having good wingers playing great and Kopitar playing badly. That is the ONLY way you can prove that. Seriously.
And what the **** have you proved? If I don't have anything, what do you have? You haven't cited one single substantive fact to show that you're correct. You want me to go back and list his goal scoring droughts from each season?

It's pretty convenient that you resort to the "well, his wingers went from playing well to playing bad during his goal scoring droughts" to support your point. Clearly it's all his wingers' fault. He has no influence on his inability to score in 17 straight games. None. Good call.

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12-30-2011, 08:15 PM
  #62
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Through tough times, you're going to need to have your top players give that extra push. When was the last game we could say Kopitar dictated the play? Him and all of the other struggling players are capable of doing more.

The problem is that now they have this burden on their minds and you could visibly see that it's affecting their play. They're gripping their sticks too tightly and over thinking what to do with the puck: those are traits you see from players who haven't found the net in a while.

While I'm noticing the extra effort being put in on the defensive side of the game, we've yet to see that extra effort being put in on the offensive side. This team has the size and talent to sustain possession of the puck. They've done it before with pretty much the exact same roster, but now they have better players.

I'm not making excuses, I honestly feel that this problem is between their ears. When you're constantly thinking on the ice, your natural instincts and reaction time slows down, and that's when you see mistakes occur on the ice.

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12-30-2011, 08:15 PM
  #63
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When has he had an elite sniper on his wing? That's the point that's trying to be made here...and I agree with it. Kopi has never had a good enough winger. Period. I blame DL fully.
I agree that he's never had a true first line winger, but that doesn't change the fact that he's playing with the same "not good enough" wingers when he goes into these slumps as he is the rest of the year.

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Originally Posted by 123slam View Post
I think Kopi not scoring in 17 games has clouded some judgment around here. Kopi is RARELY invisible on the ice...IMO his effort has increased tremendously over the years. He could've easily had 7-8 goals in this slump, the puck jsut hasn't been going in. Effort can only help so much.
I can only speak for myself, but I am not insinuating that Kopitar has been invisible, I'm just saying that 17 games without a goal is unacceptable. You just can't have it from your highest paid forward and alternate captain. Kopitar is out there to be a game changer, and he's not doing it. After all, you don't pay Sammy Pahlsson 6.8 million a year (that's 82 games, for those that need the clarification.)

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12-30-2011, 08:28 PM
  #64
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You think he likes it? Guaranteed he's absolutely pissed, but there's only so much he can do with Richie and Brownie on his line.
Once again Brown and Brad have not been his winger for SIX YEARS. He does this EVERY YEAR.

I would like a year where he decides not to do it. Smyth and Willie were his wingers one year and he did it that year TOO. Both of those guys are NHL caliber Wingers.

Can we all agree Kopitar needs to pull himself out this. Also next year DECIDE not to do it again.

Drive the freakin net more, FORCE defenders to go to the slot WITH YOU. Do something other than going every year with a patch of 16 to 20 games without a Goal.

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12-30-2011, 08:38 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
A season where he doesn't disappear Goal wise for four to six weeks.

One of these years Kopitar will decide he doesn't like this annual Goal slumps.
Again, I could care less if Kopitar doesn't score one more goal all season, as long as he averages 2.5 assists per game...

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12-30-2011, 08:46 PM
  #66
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Again, I could care less if Kopitar doesn't score one more goal all season, as long as he averages 2.5 assists per game...
That's fine if you are ok with that. I am not.

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12-30-2011, 08:48 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
Yeah, I guess we need a larger sample size than approximately 6 weeks, every season for 6 seasons.
By evaluation I mean this argument over him being playmaking or shooting center.


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Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
Crosby

He isn't super more talented than Kopitar, Will and Desire.
Whatever you have been smoking, I want some. Pass it on, bro.


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Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
What about a guy like Toews then? Is his success because he has Kane, Hossa, and Sharp around him? I think it may be partially due to his supporting cast, but there is something else there with Toews that Kopitar is missing IMO.
What are we talking here, points and goals? Cups? Not to take anything away from Toews, but what would their point totals be today, if you simply swapped Kopitar and Toews? I tried to guess myself and I started laughing when I imagined Toews with Richards and Williams as he plays today.

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No matter what Winger he has, He has had NHL caliber Wingers on his line for periods at a time. It happens EVERY YEAR.
As I've said before, as long as those NHL caliber wingers played like NHL caliber wingers, Kopitar was producing. We can say that Kopitar is inconsistent, but it is also true that he has had at least equally inconsistent wingers. And just so it happens that they play bad at the same time. Is that a coincidence?

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Which again Kopitar has to DECIDE he is tired of sucking for Two months out of the season.
That is not a matter of a simple decision imo. If it would have been, Kopitar would have done it long time ago. It's not like deciding to lose 30 pounds.


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Originally Posted by Chazz Reinhold View Post
And what the **** have you proved? If I don't have anything, what do you have? You haven't cited one single substantive fact to show that you're correct. You want me to go back and list his goal scoring droughts from each season?

It's pretty convenient that you resort to the "well, his wingers went from playing well to playing bad during his goal scoring droughts" to support your point. Clearly it's all his wingers' fault. He has no influence on his inability to score in 17 straight games. None. Good call.
I haven't proved anything, but it's not me making such claims, it's you. You said that it would have been the same, if he had wingers playing great on his line. I said that you can't know that. I didn't say you were wrong, I just said that you can't prove it, until it happens.
It is however true that I believe you are wrong, because sample size shows that Kopitar has been able to dominate the game as long as he had good wingers (not even elite) on his line. I think that I have a little bit more to support my belief than you, but at this point we can both only believe, we can't know for sure.


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Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
I'm not making excuses, I honestly feel that this problem is between their ears. When you're constantly thinking on the ice, your natural instincts and reaction time slows down, and that's when you see mistakes occur on the ice.
I agree, I hope that Sutter will be able to change that. He is said to be able to get max from the players. If he gets max from Kopitar I think our problems are solved. He would need to have "maxed" wingers too, though. Imagine "maxed" Kopitar-Williams-Penner line.

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12-30-2011, 08:55 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by sjmay View Post
Again, I could care less if Kopitar doesn't score one more goal all season, as long as he averages 2.5 assists per game...
When has Kopitar ever averaged 2.5 assists per game over a sustained period? If the guy disappears for long stretches at a time, what makes you think he will all of sudden become the reincarnation of Gretzky?

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12-30-2011, 08:56 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
That's fine if you are ok with that. I am not.
Fair enough, if Kopitar is averaging 2.5 assists, that means LA is scoring 3 goals a game, I could care less if Bailey the circus bear is the one putting them in the net..

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Originally Posted by Chazz Reinhold View Post
When has Kopitar ever averaged 2.5 assists per game over a sustained period? If the guy disappears for long stretches at a time, what makes you think he will all of sudden become the reincarnation of Gretzky?
When has Kopitar stopped scoring in December and not scored another goal?


Last edited by TonySCV: 12-30-2011 at 11:48 PM. Reason: merged
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12-30-2011, 09:07 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Nex06 View Post
I haven't proved anything, but it's not me making such claims, it's you. You said that it would have been the same, if he had wingers playing great on his line. I said that you can't know that. I didn't say you were wrong, I just said that you can't prove it, until it happens.
It is however true that I believe you are wrong, because sample size shows that Kopitar has been able to dominate the game as long as he had good wingers (not even elite) on his line. I think that I have a little bit more to support my belief than you, but at this point we can both only believe, we can't know for sure.
Actually, you were the one making the claim in the first place. Then you covered your ass by saying that whenever Kopitar went into a slump with "good" players on his line, they weren't playing well, so that's why he wasn't scoring.

The bolded above is not true at all because his slumps have coincided with players such as Brown, Gagne, Williams, and Smyth on his line.

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Originally Posted by sjmay View Post
When has Kopitar stopped scoring in December and not scored another goal?
I never said he wouldn't score a goal another goal, I was just replying to your absurd scenario. For a guy who is supposed to be THE #1 GUY, he sure disappears for long stretches at a time each season. He's being paid as the #1 guy. He's labeled as the #1 guy. It's time for him to start BEING the #1 guy.


Last edited by TonySCV: 12-30-2011 at 11:48 PM. Reason: merged
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12-30-2011, 09:19 PM
  #71
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Oh , its the yearly "lets bash Kopi" thread again; I dont know what you are watching but Kopi has been playing great lately EVEN if he is not scoring.

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12-30-2011, 09:23 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Chazz Reinhold View Post
I never said he wouldn't score a goal another goal, I was just replying to your absurd scenario. For a guy who is supposed to be THE #1 GUY, he sure disappears for long stretches at a time each season. He's being paid as the #1 guy. He's labeled as the #1 guy. It's time for him to start BEING the #1 guy.
You really think Kopitar has disappeared? Really?

Oh wait, scoresheet watcher??

Sorry, just checking...

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12-30-2011, 09:26 PM
  #73
Chazz Reinhold
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You really think Kopitar has disappeared? Really?

Oh wait, scoresheet watcher??

Sorry, just checking...
Says the guy who comes into most game day threads with: "I only watched a period or so, but this is what I think..."

I watch every single minute of every single game.

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12-30-2011, 09:40 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Chazz Reinhold View Post
Says the guy who comes into most game day threads with: "I only watched a period or so, but this is what I think..."

I watch every single minute of every single game.
If you watch every single minute of every single game, then how the hell can you sit there and accuse Kopitar of disappearing?

Just asking...

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12-30-2011, 09:47 PM
  #75
Chazz Reinhold
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Originally Posted by sjmay View Post
If you watch every single minute of every single game, then how the hell can you sit there and accuse Kopitar of disappearing?

Just asking...
Look, I'm glad he plays hard at both ends of the ice, but as someone else said, he wasn't given a $6.8 million cap hit to be Sami Pahlsson. He was given a $6.8 million cap hit to be THE GUY. Not a complimentary player. THE GUY. 0 goals over the course of what amounts to almost half of the games that have been played so far isn't getting it done.

And please, don't point to assists. Assists are such an arbitrary thing.

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