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At what point does Kopitar take responsibility?

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Old
12-31-2011, 01:58 AM
  #101
likid
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In short.

Main point of some in this topic is: Kopi should earn his 6,8 mio per year somewhere else...

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12-31-2011, 08:07 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by sjmay View Post
Why though?

Are people really going to be unhappy if Kopitar is a +3 every game?
Sure - that's realistic

He's been +3 a total of 9 times in his 431 regular season game career. He's also been -3 or worse 8 times...

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12-31-2011, 09:33 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by PSP View Post
Sure - that's realistic

He's been +3 a total of 9 times in his 431 regular season game career. He's also been -3 or worse 8 times...
LOL,

Look up, you missed the point again....

Kopitar being a +3 every night is as realistic as saying he is invisible unless he is on the score sheet everynight....

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12-31-2011, 09:41 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by likid View Post
In short.

Main point of some in this topic is: Kopi should earn his 6,8 mio per year somewhere else...
I thought the main point is he should earn it in LA by providing more production on offense.

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12-31-2011, 10:26 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Chazz Reinhold View Post
Look, I'm glad he plays hard at both ends of the ice, but as someone else said, he wasn't given a $6.8 million cap hit to be Sami Pahlsson. He was given a $6.8 million cap hit to be THE GUY. Not a complimentary player. THE GUY. 0 goals over the course of what amounts to almost half of the games that have been played so far isn't getting it done.

And please, don't point to assists. Assists are such an arbitrary thing.
Hm, maybe we should trade him for THE guy Lecavalier or Gomez.

Man , am i sick of this he is getting 6,8; he s worth 6,8 the way he is playing now and he is worth 9M the way he was playing in October.

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12-31-2011, 10:28 AM
  #106
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Yes, I would. There's no such thing as a "secondary goal." There are "secondary assists."
Well then trade lets trade him for Kessel; I am sure Toronto would agree

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12-31-2011, 10:59 AM
  #107
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Folks shouldn't get too hung up on the Kopitar $$'s this season. To be fair, offensively, almost no Kings player is earning their salary so far this season and he's still producing at a nearly point-per-game clip even in this offensive drought the team is in.

Defensively however, it's another story entirely. Kopitar's 2-way play is outstanding.

Is he earning $6.8 so far this season? No, but it's not far from that. Maybe $6MM when you throw in what he contributes defensively, so let's not get hung up on $$'s (as someone else noted, he was playing like a $8-9MM player at the start of the season). He plays more minutes per night than 4 of the 6 regulars on defense.

Not to mention the biggest bargain of a lifetime on D - Jon Quick at $1.8MM a season. He'd be a vezina finalist if the voters weren't in bed when he plays most nights, but I digress... it's all about Kopitar.

There's no question this recurring slump hurts his value, but he's still earning most of what he makes when you put an entire season together.

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12-31-2011, 11:32 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by TonySCV View Post
Folks shouldn't get too hung up on the Kopitar $$'s this season. To be fair, offensively, almost no Kings player is earning their salary so far this season and he's still producing at a nearly point-per-game clip even in this offensive drought the team is in.

Defensively however, it's another story entirely. Kopitar's 2-way play is outstanding.

Is he earning $6.8 so far this season? No, but it's not far from that. Maybe $6MM when you throw in what he contributes defensively, so let's not get hung up on $$'s (as someone else noted, he was playing like a $8-9MM player at the start of the season). He plays more minutes per night than 4 of the 6 regulars on defense.

Not to mention the biggest bargain of a lifetime on D - Jon Quick at $1.8MM a season. He'd be a vezina finalist if the voters weren't in bed when he plays most nights, but I digress... it's all about Kopitar.

There's no question this recurring slump hurts his value, but he's still earning most of what he makes when you put an entire season together.
Which I think is a good argument for cutting the amount of time he spends on the PK. That energy can be better expended during the PP and 5-on-5 play.

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12-31-2011, 11:48 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
Which I think is a good argument for cutting the amount of time he spends on the PK. That energy can be better expended during the PP and 5-on-5 play.
Agreed, but how much PK time is he seeing?

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12-31-2011, 12:19 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by sjmay View Post
Agreed, but how much PK time is he seeing?
26 overall in SH TOI at 2:36

the only forwards ahead of him who are expected to also have an above-average offensive contribution are:

Shawn Horcoff 2:53
Tomas Plekanec 2:53
Jordan Staal 2:48
Claude Giroux 2:45

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12-31-2011, 12:22 PM
  #111
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Leave Kopitar alone, he's fine. With him and Richards we are set for years down the middle. I don't blame Lombardi for our problems at wing either, we have enough past 30 goal scorers on the wings to win the cup twice. It must come back to the team system and coaching.
Great at D, crap at O
I think the players probably got too comfortable with Murray. I doubt that will happen with Sutter anytime soon. Hopefully Penner, Williams and Gagne will heat up and pot a few more goals once Sutters irons out any kinks he sees in their play.

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12-31-2011, 12:37 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by 123slam View Post
Yeah, Toews is more creative, and I think we saw flashes of that earlier in Kopi's career...but I really think his supporting cast and the offensive system has made him go away from that. Maybe bringing in some more creative players will help Kopi and will push him to work on it.
Yup. Look at the guys Toews has to be creative with...


Hossa, Kane, Sharp...


now compare that to..


Brown, Richards.....Williams? Gagne?


Not to say those players aren't creative in their own right but they are very different kinds of players then the former. Very different. If you put Kopitar with Hossa and Sharp...I mean you are easily looking at Kopitar nabbing 90+ points.

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12-31-2011, 12:39 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by nki View Post
26 overall in SH TOI at 2:36

the only forwards ahead of him who are expected to also have an above-average offensive contribution are:

Shawn Horcoff 2:53
Tomas Plekanec 2:53
Jordan Staal 2:48
Claude Giroux 2:45
Fair enough,

Who fills the 2:36 then a game of SH,

Kopitar is probably our best defensive forward...and a huge reason why our PK is so good...

Who do you replace him with?

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12-31-2011, 01:09 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by sjmay View Post
Fair enough,

Who fills the 2:36 then a game of SH,

Kopitar is probably our best defensive forward...and a huge reason why our PK is so good...

Who do you replace him with?
Fraser, Stoll, Lewis, and Brown. It doesn't have to be one guy.

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12-31-2011, 01:21 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
Fraser, Stoll, Lewis, and Brown. It doesn't have to be one guy.
Exactly. It's not an EA NHL game where you have to have 2 set lines of 4 pk forwards. Realistically they rotate everyone.

Fraser, Lewis, Richardson, Richards, Brown, hell even Penner was out there once...under Sutter. Gagne can kill penalties as well.

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12-31-2011, 01:24 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
Fraser, Stoll, Lewis, and Brown. It doesn't have to be one guy.
Stoll and Brown? Seriously?

I don't get down on players, but those are probably the last two you want out there, hell, I would put Westgarth out there on a PK before those two,

Really?

Anyways, yea, it doesn't have to be one guy, I agree, but again, there is a reason why the Kings PK is so good, huge part of that is the play of Kopitar.

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12-31-2011, 01:59 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by sjmay View Post
Stoll and Brown? Seriously?

I don't get down on players, but those are probably the last two you want out there, hell, I would put Westgarth out there on a PK before those two,

Really?

Anyways, yea, it doesn't have to be one guy, I agree, but again, there is a reason why the Kings PK is so good, huge part of that is the play of Kopitar.
Are you kidding me, man? Stoll is a great PKer, and so is Brown. You're delusional.

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12-31-2011, 02:18 PM
  #118
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Are you kidding me, man? Stoll is a great PKer, and so is Brown. You're delusional.
No, no they aren't.

Stoll is a great faceoff man which you want on the PK, but in zone play, his hockey IQ is absolutely brutal.

Brown, works his ass off and sacrifices his body, which, again, you want on the PK, but again, his hockey IQ is brutal,

I would rather set up these six forwards as PK'ers,

Kopitar
Richards
Lewis
Fraser
Richardson


The sixth one is tough, Penner, Williams, Gagne, Westgarth, Hunter, Brown and Stoll,

Out of that group, I would probably say Brown, which goes to show you how vital Kopitar on the PK is.

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12-31-2011, 02:37 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by sjmay View Post
Stoll and Brown? Seriously?

I don't get down on players, but those are probably the last two you want out there, hell, I would put Westgarth out there on a PK before those two,

Really?

Anyways, yea, it doesn't have to be one guy, I agree, but again, there is a reason why the Kings PK is so good, huge part of that is the play of Kopitar.
No doubt Kopitar does a great job on the PK. I just don't think it's the best use of his talent at this point in time. Save him for a key PK late in a game? Sure, but he doesn't need to be out there on the PK all the time. I want his ice time cut so he is fresher for duty in the offensive zone.

Stoll and Brown don't suck on the PK. They are both fast aggressive players that can do the job.

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12-31-2011, 02:51 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
No doubt Kopitar does a great job on the PK. I just don't think it's the best use of his talent at this point in time. Save him for a key PK late in a game? Sure, but he doesn't need to be out there on the PK all the time. I want his ice time cut so he is fresher for duty in the offensive zone.

Stoll and Brown don't suck on the PK. They are both fast aggressive players that can do the job.
Brown is fast and aggressive, but his IQ sucks on the PK,

Stoll meh, not so fast, not as aggressive etc, but his IQ sucks,

I would rather have guys who can think the game out there a bit quicker, than those two,

PK isn't about being fast, or having a good shot, it's about being in position, anticipation, and knowing what to do in a situation.

There is a reason you rarely saw Johnson on the PK, you see him more often, but you see Scuderi, Mitchell, Greene, etc more than you see Johnson on the PK,

It's not because they are faster or more aggressive,

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12-31-2011, 03:01 PM
  #121
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op

Really?

Have you been watching the team play?

It's just that what do you expect from Kopi? He can only do what he can do with the direction he is being given in my opinion.

Who knows?

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12-31-2011, 03:18 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by sjmay View Post
Why though?

Are people really going to be unhappy if Kopitar is a +3 every game?
Last 20 games:

2 goals, 13 assists for 15 points, and a -4. He registered at least one point in just 11 of the 20 games.

He has been a positive player in just 6 of those 20, and in all 6 he contributed at least one point. He was a minus player in 9 of those 20, even though he registered at least a point in 5 of those 9 as well.

Take away the two multiple point nights against Anaheim (20 games ago) and the recent effort against Phoenix, and those numbers are absolutely abysmal for your teams best player - 1 goal, 10 assists and -9 over those 18 games.

He has to be held to a higher standard. He played very well against Phoenix - not over his head, not spectacular - just a solid effort. It is always related to effort with Anze - and his celebrated defensive skill is overrated as well. He is just solid in his zone, nothing special. He's better on some nights than others, which is part of the problem. He earned several of those minuses by simply not hustling.

I don't know why so many give him so much praise for his defensive work - y'all need to stop listening to Fox's pro-Brown and Kopitar PR hype during the broadcasts. Those two sulked thier way to getting their coach fired - add in maybe Doughty, and you have the "core" group who was most responsible for the teams failings this year. You may have seen a lack of producton from others, but their effort was never questionable. Brown and Kopitar just stopped playing with any passion, exactly when this team needed them to step up. They need to be held accountable, not excused.

Anze Kopitar is a very good player capable of being a great one. But he just doesn't want it bad enough to push himself to be the best player he can be. This team isn't gong to take the next step until either he accepts that challenge, or is moved for a more committed #1 centerman. You just need more from the top of the lineup than good defense and the occasional big nights.

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12-31-2011, 03:49 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by sjmay View Post
No, no they aren't.

Stoll is a great faceoff man which you want on the PK, but in zone play, his hockey IQ is absolutely brutal.

Brown, works his ass off and sacrifices his body, which, again, you want on the PK, but again, his hockey IQ is brutal,
The Kings PK is 4th in the NHL and Stoll is 3rd at 2:21, just 2 seconds less than Richards and Brown is 6th at 1:37.

But Stoll is a horrible PK player and too stupid to play defense? On the season, Stoll is +2 and Kopitar is -4.

Kopitar's last 17 games: 0 goals and 10 assists. That would be a 48 point pace for 82 games. Shouldn't the Kings expect more out of their #1 center?

When the Kings started 5-1-1, Kopitar had 4 goals and 10 points. Kopitar scoring is vital to the Kings success and right now he is failing the team.

Kings are on a huge home stand that could get them back into the playoff race and maybe back into the Pacific race. Last season they failed to capitalize on a long home stand, let's hope Kopitar and the Kings don't fail again.

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12-31-2011, 04:04 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
op

Really?

Have you been watching the team play?

It's just that what do you expect from Kopi? He can only do what he can do with the direction he is being given in my opinion.

Who knows?
I think you are giving the "kids" too much of a break. At this point in time Kopitar and Brown are vets. Kopitar has been an absolute failure in the offensive zone the last 24 games. He needs to man up and take the puck right to the net where something good can happen like it did in Chicago for the 4th line.

If Kopitar doesn't score more goals this team is going to underachieve by a large amount this season. He simply has to get out of this habit of next to no production for a stretch of 20-25 games during a season. It's ridiculous and completely unacceptable given the money he is getting and the role on the team that he occupies.

I am watching the Pitt/NJ game right now. Check out what Malkin just did. He refused to go to the boards on the rush. He takes the puck to the middle gets off a shot and draws a penalty. That is the type of play we should all expect from Kopitar. Nine times out of ten Kopitar takes that puck to the boards, circles the net and looks to make a meaningless pass back to the point.

bland is right on the mark with Kopitar.

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12-31-2011, 05:40 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
The Kings PK is 4th in the NHL and Stoll is 3rd at 2:21, just 2 seconds less than Richards and Brown is 6th at 1:37.

But Stoll is a horrible PK player and too stupid to play defense? On the season, Stoll is +2 and Kopitar is -4.

Kopitar's last 17 games: 0 goals and 10 assists. That would be a 48 point pace for 82 games. Shouldn't the Kings expect more out of their #1 center?

When the Kings started 5-1-1, Kopitar had 4 goals and 10 points. Kopitar scoring is vital to the Kings success and right now he is failing the team.

Kings are on a huge home stand that could get them back into the playoff race and maybe back into the Pacific race. Last season they failed to capitalize on a long home stand, let's hope Kopitar and the Kings don't fail again.
Yes, Stoll is not the best PK'er out there, do you even realize WHY he gets 2:21 of PK time, I can guarantee you it's not because he's good at killing penalties, he's out there because he wins faceoffs, if you actually watch the game instead of the scoresheet, you will see exactly what I mean, he spends far too much time watching the play instead of anticipating it, he is clueless about the guys behind him, he has no idea when a D sneaks in behind him.

You are bringing +/- stats into a discussion that involves plays that do not record +/- stats,

Really????????

So, you measure players by stretches of games, and not only that, you measure them based on stats you see on the scoresheet, and not the actual play of the player?

And you wonder why people don't think much of your opinions....

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