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Game #37: St. Louis Blues vs. Nashville Predators

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Old
12-31-2011, 02:05 AM
  #176
Celtic Note
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Originally Posted by PocketNines View Post
On Perron I am definitely grading him against the curve of his recovery and against the curve of other Blues players generating offense.

With Sobotka there's never been a time where he was at the level of Steen, Oshie or Backes and it would be unfair IMO to compare him to them. I guess since I always think of him as a 3d/4th liner I'm unconsciously grading him against the curve of expectations for that role. When he puts together shifts where he's generating dangerous scoring chances and delivering hits nobody that little has any business delivering it makes me think of Bob Bassen, one of my all time favorite Blues.
I didn't mean that he would or could play to their skill level, rather their level of consistency from shift to shift.

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12-31-2011, 02:16 AM
  #177
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I guess I'm part of the minority who thinks making a trade now is stupid right now.

I like Berglund, his hands and size make it very hard for him to lose the puck, and he always creates space to create a play. In his defense, have you guys ever seen steen when taking a shot, half the time he fans on the puck or completely misses the shot, so its not like Berglund is the only one has some bad luck shooting, it happens to players, sometimes luck is with him and other times it isn't, that's just part of the game.

I also like Stewart, but it is harder to defend him. He's a big guy with a nice shot, but if you notice, most of his goals come from him being in front of the net, and ever since Hitchcock came, I haven't seen him there at all. Plus, if we did trade him, why on earth would we want Iginla? Give up a young 40+ goal scorer for someone who won't give us more than 20? That doesn't seem to make any sense to me

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12-31-2011, 03:07 AM
  #178
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Originally Posted by Bluesnatic27 View Post
I guess I'm part of the minority who thinks making a trade now is stupid right now.

I like Berglund, his hands and size make it very hard for him to lose the puck, and he always creates space to create a play. In his defense, have you guys ever seen steen when taking a shot, half the time he fans on the puck or completely misses the shot, so its not like Berglund is the only one has some bad luck shooting, it happens to players, sometimes luck is with him and other times it isn't, that's just part of the game.

I also like Stewart, but it is harder to defend him. He's a big guy with a nice shot, but if you notice, most of his goals come from him being in front of the net, and ever since Hitchcock came, I haven't seen him there at all. Plus, if we did trade him, why on earth would we want Iginla? Give up a young 40+ goal scorer for someone who won't give us more than 20? That doesn't seem to make any sense to me
Agreed. In my opinion, we should keep the team as it is. We're playing good hockey, we just have some issues to work out, and i think they are issues that could easily be solved with the team we have now.
The team plays some really good hockey, and we have to realizes that we've been doing really well, but it's impossible for us to win every game.
At the very least tonight, we got a point. And from what i saw on the nhl.com highlights, we had a lot of close chances (Backes ringing one off the cross bar).
I think if the team can work more on the powerplay (It's been doing better as of late) and maybe practice shoot outs more (Halak seems to do pretty well at keeping the team in the shoot out, but we just don't get any goals to support him) then we should be just fine.

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12-31-2011, 04:19 AM
  #179
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Sobotka I like him as 3rd/4th line player that's what he is and I think he's good at it.

Berglund Frustrates the hell out of me but can't help but get the feeling he's going to pull it all together I would be reluctant to get trade him.

Stewart Now I know he has been a two time 28 goal scorer but I have to say he disappoints me, maybe it's just me but I was hoping for I don't know a Lucic + type player with him, you know all bristling aggression & intimidation but with a scoring touch a real power forward but he gets pushed off the puck too easily & loses too many battles along the boards & hardly dominates in front of net but hey maybe it's just me.

I don't know it's just that after years of... for want of a better word s**t we seem so close to getting it all together and maybe I'm/ we're getting to picky but we've been close before and the small details can make the difference between a playoff team and a real contender and we seem to built on similar lines to Boston so physicality is important.

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12-31-2011, 09:03 AM
  #180
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What more can be said? This is who we are. The games are always close and we just can't seem to get the offense we need at crucial times. But we're still winning.

Not too much pressure, Andy Mac, but he could be the solution to all the offensive problems right now.

Understand the frustration with Berglund. He is a mystery.

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12-31-2011, 09:32 AM
  #181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Celtic Note View Post
I didn't mean that he would or could play to their skill level, rather their level of consistency from shift to shift.
That's fair, but wouldn't you agree that what makes Steen, Backes and Oshie who they are is the fact that they are so consistent shift to shift? Sobotka is, even now at his best, a 3d liner. So when he produces shifts with offensive skill and flair I compare him to guys like D'Agostini who I don't expect to be a difference maker on every shift. Right now the Blues can spare D'Agostini but not Sobotka. I suspect Sobotka's game will translate well in the playoffs. At any rate, that was a hell of a trade for Warsofsky.

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12-31-2011, 10:15 AM
  #182
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Originally Posted by PocketNines View Post
That's fair, but wouldn't you agree that what makes Steen, Backes and Oshie who they are is the fact that they are so consistent shift to shift? Sobotka is, even now at his best, a 3d liner. So when he produces shifts with offensive skill and flair I compare him to guys like D'Agostini who I don't expect to be a difference maker on every shift. Right now the Blues can spare D'Agostini but not Sobotka. I suspect Sobotka's game will translate well in the playoffs. At any rate, that was a hell of a trade for Warsofsky.
I agree that consistency is one of the major characteristics that makes those three really good players. While most every player could be better with consistency, there are some players that seem to have the ability to get there because of their makeup. Sobotka seems like that kind of player to me. He is the kind of player that can be a consistently solid player from shift to shift. Since you brought him up, D'Agostini doesn't seem to have as much of that makeup. I think D'Ags has moments where he plays above his skill level. Mainly because he occasionally makes plays you don't expect he would make.

I agree that the Warsofsky trade was an excellent move.

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12-31-2011, 11:47 AM
  #183
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Originally Posted by Bluesnatic27 View Post
I guess I'm part of the minority who thinks making a trade now is stupid right now.

I like Berglund, his hands and size make it very hard for him to lose the puck, and he always creates space to create a play. In his defense, have you guys ever seen steen when taking a shot, half the time he fans on the puck or completely misses the shot, so its not like Berglund is the only one has some bad luck shooting, it happens to players, sometimes luck is with him and other times it isn't, that's just part of the game.

I also like Stewart, but it is harder to defend him. He's a big guy with a nice shot, but if you notice, most of his goals come from him being in front of the net, and ever since Hitchcock came, I haven't seen him there at all. Plus, if we did trade him, why on earth would we want Iginla? Give up a young 40+ goal scorer for someone who won't give us more than 20? That doesn't seem to make any sense to me
HAHAHA how can you say Iginla won't give us more than 20 goals? He put up 43 last season. How many did Berglund put up last season? 22. Berglund isn't a young 40+ goal scorer...What are you talking about?

We should grab Iginla for several reasons. The first being, he is still playing amazing. He has more points on calgary's struggling team right now than anyone on our team currently. Iginla put up 86 points last season. Berglund won't be a 40 goal scorer. That prediction is ridiculous. He is on pace for nearly 40 points this season let alone 40 goals in one season haha. Calgary owes it to Iginla to trade him to a cup contender so he can win a cup in the same fashion Bourque won one in Colorado. Also, Calgary could use a center like Berglund since he is young and emerging into a powerforward. Don't tell me you wouldn't want to see Iginla, Mcdonald, and Stewart on the same line heading into the playoffs. Additionally, once we let go of Iginla, we will have Tarasenko and Schwartz here anyways.

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12-31-2011, 12:12 PM
  #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyman1707 View Post
HAHAHA how can you say Iginla won't give us more than 20 goals? He put up 43 last season. How many did Berglund put up last season? 22. Berglund isn't a young 40+ goal scorer...What are you talking about?

We should grab Iginla for several reasons. The first being, he is still playing amazing. He has more points on calgary's struggling team right now than anyone on our team currently. Iginla put up 86 points last season. Berglund won't be a 40 goal scorer. That prediction is ridiculous. He is on pace for nearly 40 points this season let alone 40 goals in one season haha. Calgary owes it to Iginla to trade him to a cup contender so he can win a cup in the same fashion Bourque won one in Colorado. Also, Calgary could use a center like Berglund since he is young and emerging into a powerforward. Don't tell me you wouldn't want to see Iginla, Mcdonald, and Stewart on the same line heading into the playoffs. Additionally, once we let go of Iginla, we will have Tarasenko and Schwartz here anyways.
For one, Iginla won't be coming here. He gave out a list earlier in the season and the Blues were not on it. Secondly, he's slowing down from his numbers of old. At this point he's played almost half the season and has 14 goals. That's 1 more than Alex Steen. He's 34 and has a 7 million dollar contract that goes past this year. We can't pay for that.

The Blues should be, and I believe are, are looking for more complementary guys. Guys who can score and help the team, but aren't necessarily superstars that you have to give up huge amounts of value for.

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12-31-2011, 12:23 PM
  #185
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Originally Posted by Thallis View Post
For one, Iginla won't be coming here. He gave out a list earlier in the season and the Blues were not on it. Secondly, he's slowing down from his numbers of old. At this point he's played almost half the season and has 14 goals. That's 1 more than Alex Steen. He's 34 and has a 7 million dollar contract that goes past this year. We can't pay for that.

The Blues should be, and I believe are, are looking for more complementary guys. Guys who can score and help the team, but aren't necessarily superstars that you have to give up huge amounts of value for.
Yeah, he probably won't, but we said the same thing about trading Erik Johnson. Doug Armstrong isn't afraid to pull the trigger. Don't be surprised if Iginla leaves Calgary this season. As for trading Berglund in general, get him out of here.

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12-31-2011, 12:34 PM
  #186
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Originally Posted by hockeyman1707 View Post
HAHAHA how can you say Iginla won't give us more than 20 goals? He put up 43 last season. How many did Berglund put up last season? 22. Berglund isn't a young 40+ goal scorer...What are you talking about?

We should grab Iginla for several reasons. The first being, he is still playing amazing. He has more points on calgary's struggling team right now than anyone on our team currently. Iginla put up 86 points last season. Berglund won't be a 40 goal scorer. That prediction is ridiculous. He is on pace for nearly 40 points this season let alone 40 goals in one season haha. Calgary owes it to Iginla to trade him to a cup contender so he can win a cup in the same fashion Bourque won one in Colorado. Also, Calgary could use a center like Berglund since he is young and emerging into a powerforward. Don't tell me you wouldn't want to see Iginla, Mcdonald, and Stewart on the same line heading into the playoffs. Additionally, once we let go of Iginla, we will have Tarasenko and Schwartz here anyways.
Ummmm, 1) I said trading Stewart for Iginla, not Berglund

2) No I wouldn't want him, even at the style of play Berglund is playing right now, he still is playing solid defensive hockey, and is so much younger, Iginla is not some 20 year old who's scoring 40 goals, he's a 35 year old=declining. Why on earth would I want someone declining in play than someone who has some potential to get better as he gets older.

3) you even said we would lose Iginla sooner than later, so instead of maintaining a player like Berglund for a lot longer time period, you end up losing two players with that deal

4) the "on pace for" predictions are a load of crap, heck, they said that Kyle brodziak was on pace for a 40 goal season, sports players go into slumps, every player does, no one now can score a goal every game

your just frustrated that we lost one game and your just trying to find a scapegoat and not thinking, maybe we just got unlucky that game.

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12-31-2011, 01:39 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by Bluesnatic27 View Post
Ummmm, 1) I said trading Stewart for Iginla, not Berglund

2) No I wouldn't want him, even at the style of play Berglund is playing right now, he still is playing solid defensive hockey, and is so much younger, Iginla is not some 20 year old who's scoring 40 goals, he's a 35 year old=declining. Why on earth would I want someone declining in play than someone who has some potential to get better as he gets older.

3) you even said we would lose Iginla sooner than later, so instead of maintaining a player like Berglund for a lot longer time period, you end up losing two players with that deal

4) the "on pace for" predictions are a load of crap, heck, they said that Kyle brodziak was on pace for a 40 goal season, sports players go into slumps, every player does, no one now can score a goal every game

your just frustrated that we lost one game and your just trying to find a scapegoat and not thinking, maybe we just got unlucky that game.
I'd rather have a proven goal scorer than someone with "potential." Iginla is doing very well with a team with no talent. And, "IF," we were to somehow get Iginla, we would probably trade a useless pick along with Berglund (hopefully) and also receive a no-name player as well. I'm just going off of what Armstrong's done in the past. Who was D'Agostini? Colaiacovo? Shattenkirk? Sobotka? I'm sure you knew these players would be great impact players on our team when you first saw the names...I'm just saying, if we somehow get Iginla, we would probably get some "use-less-at-first-sight" player, but then would end up impacting the team in a positive way. As I said before, we'd be getting Tarasenko and Schwartz next year too.

The "on pace for" predictions are just PREDICTIONS, don't get so riled up over nothing.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure I'm not "scape-goating" Berglund. Berglund has just stood out as someone that hasn't contributed and hasn't won puck battles. Trust me, I want him to succeed. But it's hard to cheer for someone who's playing below sub-par. "We're not kids anymore" has been the motto ever since last year. It's time to grow up and start showing signs of life, or make a trade.

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12-31-2011, 02:28 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by hockeyman1707 View Post
I'd rather have a proven goal scorer than someone with "potential." Iginla is doing very well with a team with no talent. And, "IF," we were to somehow get Iginla, we would probably trade a useless pick along with Berglund (hopefully) and also receive a no-name player as well. I'm just going off of what Armstrong's done in the past. Who was D'Agostini? Colaiacovo? Shattenkirk? Sobotka? I'm sure you knew these players would be great impact players on our team when you first saw the names...I'm just saying, if we somehow get Iginla, we would probably get some "use-less-at-first-sight" player, but then would end up impacting the team in a positive way. As I said before, we'd be getting Tarasenko and Schwartz next year too.

The "on pace for" predictions are just PREDICTIONS, don't get so riled up over nothing.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure I'm not "scape-goating" Berglund. Berglund has just stood out as someone that hasn't contributed and hasn't won puck battles. Trust me, I want him to succeed. But it's hard to cheer for someone who's playing below sub-par. "We're not kids anymore" has been the motto ever since last year. It's time to grow up and start showing signs of life, or make a trade.
below sub-par, that must be really bad. A guy has a couple of bad games and people want to throw him under the bus. Maybe Berglund and Stewart should be split up, but trade talks are way too early.

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12-31-2011, 02:51 PM
  #189
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For one thing, Berglund has not had just a couple of bad games. He's been ineffective a lot of games. He doesn't hurt you defensively most of the time but it's not like he's a shutdown defensive center either.

Said this in the rant but what really discourages me about Berglund is how he plays the puck in the offensive zone. Remember how he scored against the Rangers? He so rarely squares up to the goal and goes right at it. It's like when you were a kid playing basketball and you weren't good enough to drive so you just backed the ball in. Whoever complained about Steen whiffing on shots, Steen is a million times better at coming off the wall and facing up to the net and getting shots away. For a defender on Berglund, they might not be able to get the puck from him but as long as they keep themselves between him and the goal he's not going to do much with it. He's a perimeter player in the offensive zone the vast majority of the time. Until this changes on a nightly basis he will never reach the potential for which he occasionally shows flashes.

Also whoever said it was "scapegoating" to talk about Berglund that's crazy. Blaming Berglund for what Berglund isn't able to do is not scapegoating. Scapegoating means you're blaming a person for something another person or persons are responsible for not accomplishing. Nobody besides Berglund is responsible for Berglund's development.

The forwards who consistently generate offensive chances when healthy are: Oshie, Backes, Perron, Steen, McDonald. They may not do it every single night but the nights they don't are the exception. The problem is the Blues have had 2 or 3 of these guys hurt a huge percentage of the time. The rest of the forwards are supplementary, occasional offense generators and that's why they're expendable in trade for upgrades.

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12-31-2011, 02:53 PM
  #190
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below sub-par, that must be really bad. A guy has a couple of bad games and people want to throw him under the bus. Maybe Berglund and Stewart should be split up, but trade talks are way too early.
Other than his couple of bad games, he's been average. He hasn't been spectacular in any game this season so far, which is unfortunate. I don't care who gets changed, but I agree, Berglund and Stewart need to be split. I like talking about possible, realistic, trades, but yes, there will be no trades until trade deadline looms.

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