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2011-2012 Rangers Prospects Thread (Juniors, College, International, Other) *Part 4*

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Old
12-31-2011, 12:50 AM
  #751
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Originally Posted by newoilburnsclean View Post
M St.Croix with another 3 pts tonight now at 60 5 pts out of whl lead

3 points is considered a slow night for him. How many times has he scored 4 per game?

On a serious note, after a slow start, he's got 56 points in the last 30 games. If he keeps it up, he can finish with over 120 points this season. That's unbelievable in a defensive league.

How's his physique? I don't mean to ask whether he hits. I mean, can he handle the NHL physically right now? Is he close to it physically where he might gain enough weight between now and next September?

Normally I hate rushing kids, but when a kid is scoring at will in the WHL, you've got to pay attention to him in training camp to see if he can handle the pros.

I'm skeptical about his NHL chances next year, but I will definitely be paying attention to him.

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12-31-2011, 01:28 AM
  #752
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The whole WHL is a defensive league is getting carried way out of proportion. Just as the QMJHL is supposedly way more offensive.

They're all pretty much the same thing. Although I personally believe the Q is slightly worse (yeah yeah St. Johns was/is amazing, the talent level is lower league-wide though), 120 points in any CHL league is the same exact thing.

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12-31-2011, 01:56 AM
  #753
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Kreider is not at all like that. He's faster, with a better shot, more creative offensively. Also not as good defensively as Malhotra was thought to be. But they aren't similar in style. Not at all.
If there is one thing EVERYONE can agree on...it has to be this.

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12-31-2011, 11:32 AM
  #754
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I'm on the same page.... Anyone that looks at Kreider's physical tools, can say he'll be an NHL player... And he will be... The question will be whether or not he'll be a 40-50 point forward or a 60-70 point forward. He's a good passer (tape to tape) but he's not real creative with the puck.... I watch the BC games and I'm not overly impressed with his hockey IQ... I see him more as a guy who is going to finish scoring chances then one who really makes the play to create them... Hockey IQ is what's going to separate him from being a point per game forward vs. a 25/25 or 30/30 forward. If he had Patrick Kane's IQ with that physical package, he would be a monster... Kreider reminds me a little bit of Jeff Carter, but with better skating and less playmaking ability.... Haven't seen Carter play much with CBJ but I'm going off of what I remember of him on the Flyers....
Excellent points! Kreider's hockey IQ has always been questioned in the past and is the main reason he decided to stay in school. If he can develop his on ice awareness, the sky is the limit for him. Keep youe fingers crossed.

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12-31-2011, 11:37 AM
  #755
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I don't know what Kreider will be. I think the sky is the limit, but he will be a very good player. I don't know about point totals, because it depends if his playmaking translates. He may still be a guy who scores more then gets assists. 30 goal, 50 points? 30 goal, 60 points? More? Less? I don't know. But he has so much potential.

Stepan is a star in the making. I wasn't discrediting him. I see him as a 70-80 point player. And if not for Cally, he would eventually be captain material.

Kreider, above any of our other prospects, though. If I could chose only one to hang onto it would be Kreider.

If we could get a deal with Anaheim done and we had to sacrifice Miller and McIlrath id do it. But not Kreider. I see him as a 30 goal scorer and bringing much needed speed to the lineup. We suck against fast teams, we need to match them. Kreider, Gaborik, and Hagelin give us that weapon. Though id be hesitant to give up McIlrath, too, I think he's the real deal.
Great post. I would never include Kreider in any potential deal and I'd also be hesitant to give up MciIrath.

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12-31-2011, 11:47 AM
  #756
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Regarding Hags. Red Berenson deserves a ton of credit. Michigan is a great program.

But Ken Gernander and the Hartford staff also deserve a ton of credit. They get their players ready for the Rangers. They get them ready physically and teach them the systems so its a quicker transition.

And Torts and Sully deserve their credit for showing patience and a willingness to give the young guys a legitimate shot (when they earn it).

One of the reasons I still would have preferred that Miller honor his commitment to UND. Its a great development program with a solid track record. Im not convinced the CHL was the route for him. His numbers look great. But numbers always look great in the CHL.
Agree. His development would have been better served going to UND and spending a few years in a great program. Look what a great college program did for Hagelin's development.

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12-31-2011, 12:10 PM
  #757
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
I don't know what Kreider will be. I think the sky is the limit, but he will be a very good player. I don't know about point totals, because it depends if his playmaking translates. He may still be a guy who scores more then gets assists. 30 goal, 50 points? 30 goal, 60 points? More? Less? I don't know. But he has so much potential.

Stepan is a star in the making. I wasn't discrediting him. I see him as a 70-80 point player. And if not for Cally, he would eventually be captain material.

Kreider, above any of our other prospects, though. If I could chose only one to hang onto it would be Kreider.

If we could get a deal with Anaheim done and we had to sacrifice Miller and McIlrath id do it. But not Kreider. I see him as a 30 goal scorer and bringing much needed speed to the lineup. We suck against fast teams, we need to match them. Kreider, Gaborik, and Hagelin give us that weapon. Though id be hesitant to give up McIlrath, too, I think he's the real deal.
Are you talking about trading for Ryan? I wouldn't do it because I think Kreider will eventually give us similar production and for much cheaper. Ryan's cap hit is going to destroy and cap flexibility we have

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12-31-2011, 01:05 PM
  #758
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Are you talking about trading for Ryan? I wouldn't do it because I think Kreider will eventually give us similar production and for much cheaper. Ryan's cap hit is going to destroy and cap flexibility we have
Ryan's cap hit is actually quite good. A 30/30 guy for 5.5M. I'd be thrilled if Kreider could give us that production...60 points puts you in the top 50 in the league in scoring.

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12-31-2011, 01:26 PM
  #759
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Ryan's cap hit is actually quite good. A 30/30 guy for 5.5M. I'd be thrilled if Kreider could give us that production...60 points puts you in the top 50 in the league in scoring.
5.1M

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12-31-2011, 04:15 PM
  #760
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5.1M
Even better. Must have been looking at his 2011 salary as opposed to the cap hit. 5.1M is a steal....would hardly "destroy any cap flexibility we have." Swap out WW and you're practically there.

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12-31-2011, 04:31 PM
  #761
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I said the opposite. I would NOT trade Kreider for Ryan.

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12-31-2011, 04:32 PM
  #762
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Even better. Must have been looking at his 2011 salary as opposed to the cap hit. 5.1M is a steal....would hardly "destroy any cap flexibility we have." Swap out WW and you're practically there.

Normally I would be opposed to a youth for age trade, but if we can keep this up until March, we should try to acquire Ryan or another top-6 forward so long as it doesn't ruin our system.

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12-31-2011, 04:35 PM
  #763
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Kreider has matched his NCAA career high in points (in 12 less games than the previous season:

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p...php?pid=120939

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12-31-2011, 04:44 PM
  #764
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Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
Kreider has matched his NCAA career high in points (in 12 less games than the previous season:

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p...php?pid=120939
Been checking this thread regularly and haven't seen a lot of updates on Kreider recently. How has he been playing? How has his mental game developed?

Edit: Or I simply haven't checked the past two days! haha
Regardless though, my main concern is his mental game. It gladdens me to read that he is making very good passes, some say NHL level passes. I feel that is a better indication of his mental game. Still interested in his positioning on both sides of the rink.


Last edited by Emptyvoid: 12-31-2011 at 05:05 PM.
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12-31-2011, 05:42 PM
  #765
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Pretty light schedule for the Eagles in Dec.. Probably because of finals. I'm guessing that contributes to the lack of updates.

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Old
12-31-2011, 05:49 PM
  #766
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Originally Posted by RussianRangersFan View Post
Been checking this thread regularly and haven't seen a lot of updates on Kreider recently. How has he been playing? How has his mental game developed?

Edit: Or I simply haven't checked the past two days! haha
Regardless though, my main concern is his mental game. It gladdens me to read that he is making very good passes, some say NHL level passes. I feel that is a better indication of his mental game. Still interested in his positioning on both sides of the rink.
On Metro Hockey Podcast a hockey analyst without any Rangers affiliation called that Kreider would be GREAT in the NHL because of his physical tools AND two way play. He actually clarified Kreider won't be just GOOD at the NHL level, he will be GREAT. Seeing how Hagelin and other prospects play the NCAA is THE place to go for 2-way ability..

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12-31-2011, 06:57 PM
  #767
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No way is this a legit comparison. Malhotra was nowhere near as creative offensively. He was a two-way play, more defensive than offensive.

You know how I use percentages as a base from which the prediction process for rookies start? I started that with Malhotra. I remember a couple non-Ranger fans were arguing with me on the AOL bulletin boards that Malhotra will never be more than a good third liner. I argued that someone drafted this early is never projected to be just a good third liner, that teams draft guys at #7 to be superstars.

I decided I will prove this by doing research and was stunned to find out that no, #7s don't become superstars or even stars or even top-6 most of the time.

Even at the time he was drafted, those people who know prospects (real knowledge, not just the usual dose of hype about the first 50 players in the draft all being oh-so special) knew that Malhotra will at best become what we now have in Anisimov: a 45-50 point player who's better at defense than offense. In fact, Malhotra was projected to be better defensively and worse offensively than Anisimov is now... and he failed to achieve that, becoming a crappy NHLer who averaged a mere 27 points per 82 games he played.

Kreider is not at all like that. He's faster, with a better shot, more creative offensively. Also not as good defensively as Malhotra was thought to be. But they aren't similar in style. Not at all.
What I meant that at 18 years old they were both very raw undeveloped prospects with size and skating. Malhotra should have gone back to the OHL for at least two seasons. He might have rounded out his offense if he had.

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01-01-2012, 07:13 AM
  #768
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It shows Kreider has 2 goals the other night on the Uscho.com website. I thought he only scored (1) goal. Anyway... He is having a real good season

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01-01-2012, 09:39 AM
  #769
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What I meant that at 18 years old they were both very raw undeveloped prospects with size and skating. Malhotra should have gone back to the OHL for at least two seasons. He might have rounded out his offense if he had.
Manny was a pawn between John Muckler and Neil Smith; Smith wanted Manny on the team(7th overall), Muckler said he wasn't ready; Smith was adament that Manny play; Muckler called Manny a 3rd liner at best and poor Manny was caught in the middle and his NHL career was almost wiped out, his NYR career definitely. Muckler was fired soon after

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01-01-2012, 09:56 AM
  #770
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It shows Kreider has 2 goals the other night on the Uscho.com website. I thought he only scored (1) goal. Anyway... He is having a real good season
His official stats on Hockey East's site give him just one.

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01-01-2012, 12:01 PM
  #771
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JT miller is a very good player. In last night's game dean blais couldn't get him enough ice time. His puck possession skills are amazing. At the end if the game when the goalie was pulled Blais has JT (the 18 year old) on the ice battling for the tie and he was involved in several good scoring chances against a very strong Canadian team. And he is a ferocious hitter. This kid is built for our system. He will make next year's team.

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01-01-2012, 03:55 PM
  #772
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No way is this a legit comparison. Malhotra was nowhere near as creative offensively. He was a two-way play, more defensive than offensive.

You know how I use percentages as a base from which the prediction process for rookies start? I started that with Malhotra. I remember a couple non-Ranger fans were arguing with me on the AOL bulletin boards that Malhotra will never be more than a good third liner. I argued that someone drafted this early is never projected to be just a good third liner, that teams draft guys at #7 to be superstars.

I decided I will prove this by doing research and was stunned to find out that no, #7s don't become superstars or even stars or even top-6 most of the time.

Even at the time he was drafted, those people who know prospects (real knowledge, not just the usual dose of hype about the first 50 players in the draft all being oh-so special) knew that Malhotra will at best become what we now have in Anisimov: a 45-50 point player who's better at defense than offense. In fact, Malhotra was projected to be better defensively and worse offensively than Anisimov is now... and he failed to achieve that, becoming a crappy NHLer who averaged a mere 27 points per 82 games he played.

Kreider is not at all like that. He's faster, with a better shot, more creative offensively. Also not as good defensively as Malhotra was thought to be. But they aren't similar in style. Not at all.
I agree vs Malhotra. I mean, players like Manny has built on a strong overall game before and become very good players, but Kreider is more of a offensive player.

Though, there are some concerns with the kid for sure -- regarding HOW good he will become.

It just isn't easy to make it in this league. So many very good junior players never become GREAT. Anyone remember Steve Bernier of what 4-5 years ago right before he broke into the league? Decent skater. Great size/shot/hands. If we had that kid in our system now, many would think he was the next Michael Jordan but in hockey.

For example, is Kreider good on the forecheck? Ask those who see him regulary. When I've seen him, he has not been able to take advantage of his speed to hunt down Ds and make them caugh up pucks, speed is only a little part if the forechecking game and while Kreider can turn on the jets he isn't the type who always are keeping speed under his skates on the ice.

On the PP, he is mostly playing a role in the paint so too speak, he is so much stronger than his peers. But will he be elite in the NHL? The next Holmstrom? He is certainly no good in any other role on the PP.

I love that Kreids stayed in College. He has def matured this season and played in a role he has not played in before. The college level was the right level to get a sniff at that role for him.

He was a mid first and I am sure he will turn out to be a very good pick for that position. Getting a chance to play with BR could be HUGE for him. And so forth.

But I think there is very little room for Kreider to even remotely become for us what like Parise is for NJ. And that is great to me.

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01-01-2012, 04:14 PM
  #773
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JT miller is a very good player. In last night's game dean blais couldn't get him enough ice time. His puck possession skills are amazing. At the end if the game when the goalie was pulled Blais has JT (the 18 year old) on the ice battling for the tie and he was involved in several good scoring chances against a very strong Canadian team. And he is a ferocious hitter. This kid is built for our system. He will make next year's team.


He will not make the team next year, he is so far away from that.

He did nothing that made him standout on the Junior team. He played ok, nothing spectacular at all. He still has a good 2-3 years before he cracks the Rangers roster.

The big thing I noticed with him is that he floats around a lot. He needs to start moving his feet a lot more away from the puck.

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01-01-2012, 04:15 PM
  #774
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JT miller is a very good player. In last night's game dean blais couldn't get him enough ice time. His puck possession skills are amazing. At the end if the game when the goalie was pulled Blais has JT (the 18 year old) on the ice battling for the tie and he was involved in several good scoring chances against a very strong Canadian team. And he is a ferocious hitter. This kid is built for our system. He will make next year's team.
He's not going to make the team as a 19 year old. It's only his first season in juniors. At the least he needs another year there. Most likely 2

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01-01-2012, 04:18 PM
  #775
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He will not make the team next year, he is so far away from that.

He did nothing that made him standout on the Junior team. He played ok, nothing spectacular at all. He still has a good 2-3 years before he cracks the Rangers roster.

The big thing I noticed with him is that he floats around a lot. He needs to start moving his feet a lot more away from the puck.
2-3 years might be a bit extreme. This kid is 100% focused on becoming a pro and making the Rangers. Obviously he needs to earn it, but from what I've seen he's got the attitude that he won't be denied. Next year's camp is over 8 months away...certainly plenty of time to give him a shot. I don't think you can definitively say he needs a good 2+ years.

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