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What did the '08 Canadiens have that the '12 Canadiens don't

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Old
01-01-2012, 12:26 PM
  #51
hockeyfan2k11
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All that team was missing was good goaltending...maybe a little more heart but that was a very nice looking team.

They had good size, good scoring depth, speed, clutch factor and some guys were playing some of the best hockey of their careers. (Kovalev, Kostitsyn, Lapierre, Plekanec, Markov). They also had a good 4th line with guys who could fight and muck it up, not to mention there was decent toughness on the blue line.

Gainey didn't do that bad of a job then....he wasn't perfect, but did a decent job. He then added guys like Tanguay and Lang next year but the injuries really hurt the team.

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Old
01-01-2012, 12:32 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Natural Habs Fan View Post
Glad to see the Kovalev love. I still wear his jersey with pride. My favourite Hab since Patrick Roy.
Big Kovy fan. I want a jersey myself....but I want one with the "C" on it.

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Old
01-01-2012, 01:12 PM
  #53
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I have been a die hard habs fan my whole life and I never thought it would have been possible to remove my love for that team until the day the organization chose Tremblay over Roy.. From that time on, I was pissed and not that into the team anymore.. It was the only time I can say I really hated management.

When Gainey STOLE Kovy it felt like a new relationship but when he kept him long term (best trade overall I can remember of for habs) I started loving this team again!

In 2008 we had health going our way which is luck but on the ice we had one thing at it's peak that we have maintained at a really high level until this season and that is the PP.

Marko+ LH left point precise booming shot (Souray, Streit, Schneider, MAB) + KOVY was a thing of beauty and it worked every year, not just in 2008..

The number 1 reason we suck this year is the PP.. Gainey said it best in one of the press conferences one year when he described our identity: a quick team that will make you pay on the PP.. Our whole identity needs to be a team that attracts more penalties than we get and have a top 5 PP without that we are nothing because we can't play any other game..

Heck even this year I feel like our 5 on 5 team is better than last year but our PP sucks!

The worst part is that even with Markov our PP wouldn't be top 5 like it needs to be.. It might be middle of the pack at best. History has shown us that Markov needs 2 things to be the general of a top 5 guaranteed PP:

-A booming LH shot from right point as Markov as never been great playing on the right feeding a RH left point guy..

- A sniper LH RW for one timers

To answer the OP there are a few things different now than in 08

-Health
-A dominant player KOVALEV

But the biggest difference is we no longer have an IDENTITY


Lastly, as a season ticket holder for many years now I can also testify that another HUGE difference win or lose from the post huge makeover is that the Koivu-Kovy team was exciting and fun to watch while the Cammaleri-Gionta-Gomez team is boring as hell. Hell I don't even like going to games anymore even though I am still a huge habs fan.. I was willing to suffer through JM because I felt like we can finally have some stability and some kind of plan like when Gainey sold us the 5 year plan.. I have disliked most players on this team for the last few years but have still loved the sacred jersey but now it's veterans I dislike with no identity and no direction..

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Old
01-01-2012, 01:27 PM
  #54
Kriss E
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Health.

That's all.

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01-01-2012, 01:50 PM
  #55
E = CH²
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Health.

That's all.
Health isn't the difference between 1st and 13th (with 14th being 3 pts back with 3 games in hand). So it can't be all. And it isn't.

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01-01-2012, 01:54 PM
  #56
Andros777
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Between Markov, Kovalev, and Streit an absolutely dirty powerplay.

A pretty good PK too.

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01-01-2012, 02:05 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
Health isn't the difference between 1st and 13th (with 14th being 3 pts back with 3 games in hand). So it can't be all. And it isn't.
Considering the guys we're missing haven't contributed in a few years, I'd say it's a huge stretch. Gionta is the only one who matters at this point. Markov/Gomez have been gone or non productive for awhile. Campoli and Spacek were suppose to turn this team around, instead of Campoli/Spacek we have Campoli/Kaberle. Upgrade right, not in the Win column. Now they're back and we still suck, now it's because Gomez is out, haha, we miss his 7 goals.

Markov, I didn't count him as anything before the season started, so him being injured isn't a valid excuse, we knew his situation long ago. If we can't overcome the loss of Gionta, then we are a lot worse than we expected. I think we're a bad team, period.

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01-01-2012, 02:08 PM
  #58
Kriss E
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
Health isn't the difference between 1st and 13th (with 14th being 3 pts back with 3 games in hand). So it can't be all. And it isn't.
First off, Welcome back.

Second, maybe not 1st of this year. Currently, the best pt/gp ratio team is Boston. They are on pace for 115pts. That is 11 more than our first position of 07-08. So ya, maybe we wouldn't be first, but no reason to think we wouldn't be able to tally up the same amount of points we had back then.
If I recall correctly, since the horrible start, we were playing at a pace of 99pts under Martin. Give him the same health we had in 08, which means, healthier Cammy, Gionta, Gomez, AK, Markov, Spacek, Campoli. Our D squads is still questionable, and we don't know if our PP would have performed as well, but in a well structured system, there's no reason to think we wouldn't have rounded up victories. Healthy players don't only make themselves better, but improve the team as a whole. The morale is higher, PK would benefit a lot more from having Markov around, and so would all the forwards. I also believe having Emelin as the shooter next to Markov on the point on the PP would improve the PP. Not sure why they haven't tried it much. He has a decent powerful shot, the only question I have is his aim, but it can't be much worse than Weber's or PK's. Streit never had a powerful shot, but it was precise. With a healthy Markov, Kaberle's deal likely would have not happened, so if our PP struggles would have persisted, PG probably would have gone after a shooter.

As I said, health is the only difference.
With a healthy roster, you have a completely different team, which means different flaws. So you can adapt to different situations as well.

It's all about health.


Last edited by Kriss E: 01-01-2012 at 02:19 PM.
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Old
01-01-2012, 02:59 PM
  #59
Rutabaga
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habsjunkie2 View Post
Considering the guys we're missing haven't contributed in a few years, I'd say it's a huge stretch. Gionta is the only one who matters at this point. Markov/Gomez have been gone or non productive for awhile. Campoli and Spacek were suppose to turn this team around, instead of Campoli/Spacek we have Campoli/Kaberle. Upgrade right, not in the Win column. Now they're back and we still suck, now it's because Gomez is out, haha, we miss his 7 goals.

Markov, I didn't count him as anything before the season started, so him being injured isn't a valid excuse, we knew his situation long ago. If we can't overcome the loss of Gionta, then we are a lot worse than we expected. I think we're a bad team, period.
Its not a stretch.
They may be part of the supporting cast rather than leaders and offensive dynamos, but still, when you lose so many players simultaneously, you're going to be badly affected.

Its not as much as losing Gionta, its just that now, instead of having 3 decent lines, your third one is Eller alongside Darche and Nokelainen, and you have to play Blunden instead of Moen. Not the same quality at all.

Just an example.
Defensive-zone faceoff, you're on the road.

Who are you going to use ?
Plekanec, and possibly Gomez. He cant score, yes, but he's not going to be scored on very often either. He's reliable defensively.

If Gomez is out, you're left with Plekanec, and possibly Eller.
Still, now, your best centerman is more often than not trying to protect your team rather than trying to score.

Later, you have several quality wingers (Moen and Gionta) also out, you cant rely on Eller to help him. He's alongside Nokelainen and Darche, thats just too much to ask.
And you're in a much tougher situation offensively, where you only have 1 line (Desharnais') in a relatively decent situation.
Plekanec had to start, for an extended period, more than 60% of his shifts in his own zone. Thats huge.


Same problem with the D. We only have 2 decent players, Gorges and Subban.
We cant split them up, unless we are sure to have 2 decent pairings. With Markov there, you are sure to have at least 2 decent (to say the least) pairings.
He is slow to come back ? Well, we're not medical specialists.

A backup plan, fine, but in September, and with already 7 D on the roster, its not going to be more than a backup plan.

The difference between the expectations and what is actually possible to do with the current team is a real problem.
The initial plan was centered around depth to protect an offensive 3rd line, the depth is gone.
The initial plan was probably centered around a duo with Markov and Subban, and the guarantee to have 2 good pairings used alongside that depth to protect the 3rd unit and allow her to kill the opposition, Markov is not there, the adjustement of the newcomers is also slower than expected.


[Healthy, its actually very likely that the 11-12 team is better than 07-08 team.
Sure, they finished 1st, but with only 104 points.
Their GD was +40. The special units alone were responsable for 30 of these 40 goals. ]

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