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01-01-2012, 12:27 PM
  #1
Ginu
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The Future Need thread

As a follow-up to my poll on our biggest need, with almost half the season gone by, your responses seem to have hit the nail on the head for what we're lacking. I want to now look to the future.

I wouldn't blow up the team per say, because our young players are all playing well. It's Plekanec, Gionta, Cammalleri and Gomez. We need to get what we can from those players. Even Kaberle isn't that bad. If we get rid of those veterans, we're actually not that far away. The problem is that management misjudged how long it would take for these players to decline when they gave them those long contracts.

Here are what we've established as the biggest needs of the team:

1. no #1 centre
2. lack of size up the middle
3. d is missing grit
4. no third line that shuts down and pisses off opponents.
5. no fourth liners who can change momentum

We're really missing White and Markov but they wouldn't solve the problem.

Here are my takes:
1 & 2. If Gionta is worth a 1st, I'd offer Plekanec, Cammalleri and a 1st for Getzlaf. Finally solve that problem.

3. Tinordi is the solution to our D missing grit. With him and Emelin to insulate Subban, Subban can start throwing his weight around too. We've seen him do it. If Tinordi isn't ready, we need to bring in a veteran who does that that can calm this team down. In the mould of Pronger.

4. The third line has to be reworked. This may be our biggest problem because there's nobody on our third line that gets in people's faces and off their game. A Lapierre if you will. Where does Desharnais fit?

5. White would help the fourth line. Keep Moen. Get in a Scott or Bickell. Someone who can skate, hit and drop the gloves. We need that line to create momentum.

Our top 6 would then be: Getzlaf, Eller, Kostitsyn, Pacioretty, Cole and Leblanc / Desharnais.
Our bottom 6 would be: Moen, Bournival / new third liner, a pest, White, Scott and Bickell.
Our top 6 D: Markov, Emelin, Subban, Tinordi /"Pronger", Gorges, Diaz and Kaberle.

That requires 6 new players and 4 are on the bottom 2 lines. Not a hard thing to solve.

So here are the questions:
1) Who are the best pests in the league?
2) What would it take to land Getzlaf? Is Plekanec / Cammalleri / 1st going to get it done?
3) What would it take to land Scott and Bickell?
4) Who is a stabilizing physical force on defense with experience?


Let's think solutions.

Note: I haven't even considered who we'd be able to draft with our potential high draft pick. Draft a center but I expect them to spend at least half a season in Hamilton.

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01-01-2012, 12:30 PM
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Richiebottles
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginu View Post
As a follow-up to my poll on our biggest need, with almost half the season gone by, your responses seem to have hit the nail on the head for what we're lacking. I want to now look to the future.

I wouldn't blow up the team per say, because our young players are all playing well. It's Plekanec, Gionta, Cammalleri and Gomez. We need to get what we can from those players. Even Kaberle isn't that bad. If we get rid of those veterans, we're actually not that far away. The problem is that management misjudged how long it would take for these players to decline when they gave them those long contracts.

Here are what we've established as the biggest needs of the team:

1. no #1 centre
2. lack of size up the middle
3. d is missing grit
4. no third line that shuts down and pisses off opponents.
5. no fourth liners who can change momentum

We're really missing White and Markov but they wouldn't solve the problem.

Here are my takes:
1 & 2. If Gionta is worth a 1st, I'd offer Plekanec, Cammalleri and a 1st for Getzlaf. Finally solve that problem.

3. Tinordi is the solution to our D missing grit. With him and Emelin to insulate Subban, Subban can start throwing his weight around too. We've seen him do it. If Tinordi isn't ready, we need to bring in a veteran who does that that can calm this team down. In the mould of Pronger.

4. The third line has to be reworked. This may be our biggest problem because there's nobody on our third line that gets in people's faces and off their game. A Lapierre if you will. Where does Desharnais fit?

5. White would help the fourth line. Keep Moen. Get in a Scott or Bickell. Someone who can skate, hit and drop the gloves. We need that line to create momentum.

Our top 6 would then be: Getzlaf, Eller, Kostitsyn, Pacioretty, Cole and Leblanc / Desharnais.
Our bottom 6 would be: Moen, Bournival / new third liner, a pest, White, Scott and Bickell.
Our top 6 D: Markov, Emelin, Subban, Tinordi /"Pronger", Gorges, Diaz and Kaberle.

That requires 6 new players and 4 are on the bottom 2 lines. Not a hard thing to solve.

So here are the questions:
1) Who are the best pests in the league?
2) What would it take to land Getzlaf? Is Plekanec / Cammalleri / 1st going to get it done?
3) What would it take to land Scott and Bickell?
4) Who is a stabilizing physical force on defense with experience?


Let's think solutions.

Note: I haven't even considered who we'd be able to draft with our potential high draft pick. Draft a center but I expect them to spend at least half a season in Hamilton.
1. Solved by the draft. Grigorenko or Galchenyuk.
2. See #1
3.Emelin
4. UFA
5. UFA

The solutions are quite easy and we don't need to give up assets to get them.

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01-01-2012, 12:33 PM
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I'd like to see the Habs add an experienced gritty defensive defensman. With the emergence of Emelin, and hopefully Tinordi, we have the chance at having a solid d-core that definitely isn't afraid to throw the body. We've seen PK throw his weight around for a long time, and Gorges definitely doesn't shy away from the physical aspect of the game either.

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01-01-2012, 12:39 PM
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Ginu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingAvtsin View Post
1. Solved by the draft. Grigorenko or Galchenyuk.
2. See #1
3.Emelin
4. UFA
5. UFA

The solutions are quite easy and we don't need to give up assets to get them.
I think Emelin needs help. Who's an experienced physical defender that can calm these boys down? Someone like Pronger who's big and demands respect from his teammates.

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01-01-2012, 12:48 PM
  #5
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1) Trade Cammy to a contender for a good young prospect
2) Trade AK, Gill and Campoli for picks
3) Get rid of Gomez

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01-01-2012, 12:49 PM
  #6
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1) Who are the best pests in the league?
Habs had one in Lapierre. I like Kaleta's game and Avery's too. However I think in a year or two, Gallagher can fit that role quite well while playing in the top 6 once he gets his scoring going.

2) What would it take to land Getzlaf? Is Plekanec / Cammalleri / 1st going to get it done?
I think with the 1st added in there and where Montreal is in the standings, Anaheim could be interested. I hope Montreal would not make this trade though because if the Habs are heading towards a lottery pick this year, they should keep that 1st and add a stud.

3) What would it take to land Scott and Bickell?
Picks, most likely or a player of equal calibre.

4) Who is a stabilizing physical force on defense with experience?
Kronwall jumps to mind right away, although keep in mind he's locked up in Detroit for the next seven years. Anton Volchenkov as well, but locked up in New Jersey for six years. Habs best bet is to retain the services of Emelin for as long as they can and build him up.

To answer your other inquiries...

1. no #1 centre
Draft one.

2. lack of size up the middle
Take a look into upcoming UFAs.

3. d is missing grit
Build around Emelin in terms of toughness on the point. Add another body if needed. Gorges is pretty gritty in the corners, which is why he's so good defensively and Subban can dish out some hits and get dirty in corners.

4. no third line that shuts down and pisses off opponents.
I think it's hard to evaluate after the bad road trip the Habs had. Once Gomez comes back, Eller can fill the third line centre role where he played a very solid two-way game and shut down opponents quite well with the help of AK.

5. no fourth liners who can change momentum
White is injured. Give him time to get back and the Habs will have that.

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01-01-2012, 01:09 PM
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While Getzlaf fills one major hole, trading away Pleks along with Cammalleri opens up another major hole. Plekanec is a solid, smart player in his prime, who's producing points while shuffling between PK, PP and even strength. He's much more valuable than most people realize. Plus, he's signed at a fair amount. AK will cost us more next year IF we're able to sign him -- much better to trade him and Cammy earlier to a contender who use their extra punch in the playoffs. I realize that eliminates Getzlaf, but it opens up possible trades with emerging teams like St-Louis or Minnesota.

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01-01-2012, 01:19 PM
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#2-3-4-5 are minor concerns if #1 isn't fixed. No #1 ? No point in #2-3-4-5. #2-3-4-5 are just details that get fixed on their own in one summer by having a competent GM who knows he has the most important building blocks in place already.

It doesn't even have to be a center actually. We just need an elite forward. If we had an elite scoring winger, an Iginla in his prime type would work as well as a center. Depending on the player, an elite goal scoring winger who's consistent would be a lot better than a big center if that big center is a guy like Joe Thornton for example.

And getting elite forwards is hard as ****. I don't get the sense that the management feels that's a huge need. They used all the cap space which limits our possibilities should an elite player become available. It's doubtful we'll finish bottom 3 so chances of drafting one diminish considerably. I can't remember the last time the habs made a huge splash and acquired a real star forward who wasn't past his prime. Even if one was available through the trade market, why would they take our overpaid trash for him ? They'd likely be trying to shed salary, or get picks in exchange which wouldn't really work because we're close to the cap and have little flexibility with Kaberle, Markov, Gio, Cammy, Ple, Gomez, etc (not to mention the RFA that have to be re-signed). Unless we bury Gomez but I'll believe it when I see it. It's a real huge mess and #2-3-4-5 are really of no concern at this point in time. We have bigger issues then that.

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01-01-2012, 01:20 PM
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LOL terrible questions. Scott?! As in John ****ing Scott?! Holy ****. The guy cannot skate. If the league had "skating tests" I swear he'd fail.

I'd love to pry Prust out of Rangersland for the 4th line. Moen/White/Prust would be excellent.

Tough D is probably Shane O'Brien and hopefully Dietz can make it to the NHL.

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01-01-2012, 01:22 PM
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It all starts with a new GM and a new coaching staff...


Keep the youngsters.

Trade most of the the vets

Add grit and size

Ans as a bonus IF POSSIBLE , add a couple of local born players.

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01-01-2012, 01:24 PM
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Dirty Danglez
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Originally Posted by Habsolument90 View Post
LOL terrible questions. Scott?! As in John ****ing Scott?! Holy ****. The guy cannot skate. If the league had "skating tests" I swear he'd fail.

I'd love to pry Prust out of Rangersland for the 4th line. Moen/White/Prust would be excellent.

Tough D is probably Shane O'Brien and hopefully Dietz can make it to the NHL.
Prust is a UFA at seasons end so there is hope!

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01-01-2012, 01:24 PM
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Ginu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lshap View Post
While Getzlaf fills one major hole, trading away Pleks along with Cammalleri opens up another major hole. Plekanec is a solid, smart player in his prime, who's producing points while shuffling between PK, PP and even strength. He's much more valuable than most people realize. Plus, he's signed at a fair amount. AK will cost us more next year IF we're able to sign him -- much better to trade him and Cammy earlier to a contender who use their extra punch in the playoffs. I realize that eliminates Getzlaf, but it opens up possible trades with emerging teams like St-Louis or Minnesota.
Pleks is great don't get me wrong. I believe we need to get a #1 center and #1 D that can assume control of this team. Getting pushed around, being forced to play a defensive style, losing battles because of size, etc. have all taken their toll on this group mentally. Getzlaf, however, is significantly better than Plekanec. Someone else can do the PK duties.

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01-01-2012, 01:25 PM
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Need to keep Emelin. Priority numero uno.

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01-01-2012, 01:28 PM
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Prust is a UFA at seasons end so there is hope!
And his girlfriend is from Montreal !

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01-01-2012, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Habsolument90 View Post
LOL terrible questions. Scott?! As in John ****ing Scott?! Holy ****. The guy cannot skate. If the league had "skating tests" I swear he'd fail.

I'd love to pry Prust out of Rangersland for the 4th line. Moen/White/Prust would be excellent.

Tough D is probably Shane O'Brien and hopefully Dietz can make it to the NHL.
If Avs do let go of Shane O'Brien next offseason I would love to see him playing for Montreal, he's steady in his own zone and he can fight also, but sometimes he gets too caried away and he tries to dangle around player so some Avs fan started to call him Orr'Brien.

And considering Dietz, Blades are my favourite CHL team so I follow him, I think he could make the NHL as a 3rd pairing D-man.

And there's also Tinordi, he can be a physical NHL blueliner as well.

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01-01-2012, 01:39 PM
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Pleks is great don't get me wrong. I believe we need to get a #1 center and #1 D that can assume control of this team. Getting pushed around, being forced to play a defensive style, losing battles because of size, etc. have all taken their toll on this group mentally. Getzlaf, however, is significantly better than Plekanec. Someone else can do the PK duties.
And who is going to make this blockbuster trade ? Gauthier ?

You're talking about the guy who replaced Martin with Cunneyworth, and then replaced Cunneyworth with his assistant GM who has never coached ever. All internal promotions which have the advantage of not costing anything. This looks to me like Gauthier can't hire his own coach. Molson wouldn't want to fire Gauthier this summer and have his new GM stuck with the old GM's coach. So this begs the question.. if Gauthier doesn't even have power to hire an ass. coach... you think he has the power to make a big trade involving our first round pick ?

Pressing concern is stability with management and coaching as well as a clear direction as to where this team is headed. Big trades hopefully will come after that. But until we have a plan in place... this talk of improving the team is futile at best. Gauthier will not survive past the summer. Might not even survive the end of the season. So I don't see any big deals in place for anything until that is addressed.

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01-01-2012, 01:41 PM
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For the last 5 years, O'Brien being a tough defensmen is nothing but a myth. Ever since he left Vancouver he's never been the same player. As for Scott, to me as a 7th defensmen he's a better solution than Campoli because he would bring a new element to the team. The defensive side of the game is teachable, especially for a defensmen.

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01-01-2012, 01:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingAvtsin View Post
1. Solved by the draft. Grigorenko or Galchenyuk.
2. See #1
3.Emelin
4. UFA
5. UFA

The solutions are quite easy and we don't need to give up assets to get them.
Also great to see more people on the Galchenyuk bandwagon.

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01-01-2012, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
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For the last 5 years, O'Brien being a tough defensmen is nothing but a myth. Ever since he left Vancouver he's never been the same player. As for Scott, to me as a 7th defensmen he's a better solution than Campoli because he would bring a new element to the team. The defensive side of the game is teachable, especially for a defensmen.
I have to disagree with this, he's been pretty good in NSH last year and he's good in Colorado right now.

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01-01-2012, 01:44 PM
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It's funny though. Everyone now seems to be on the size/gritt/toughness train nowadays. Why did it take so long for people to open their eyes?

I don't think we can trade for an impact #1 centerman. They're highly coveted and the price is just far too high. What we need to do is draft a centerman. Then trade for a young guy who is still developing (like Eller trade) and hope that he can become a 1st line C, or trade for/sign a 2nd line centerman who we hope can play at a marginal 1st line center until the center that was drafted is ready.

Pleks is a very good 2nd line centerman. I wouldn't want to get rid of him. I think DD at C is not sustainable. I'd trade him.

This team absolutely needs size and team toughness. I'd love to pry a guy like Hartnell from the Flyers. O'Brien would be a nice bottom pairing guy. I think Moen's gone so he needs to be replaced. Maybe signing Prust?

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01-01-2012, 01:45 PM
  #21
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5-6 fighters.

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01-01-2012, 01:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty Danglez View Post
Prust is a UFA at seasons end so there is hope!
True, but I keep hearing about how much he likes being in NY since being traded from Calgary.

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01-01-2012, 01:51 PM
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5-6 fighters.
6 Subbans and 13 Whites. If a fight breaks out, we pull Price and ice the 13th White.

Edit: ******* double post

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01-01-2012, 08:41 PM
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D is missing size and grit. Clear as day. We need someone like a younger Hamrlik. This team will never be a contender without more grit in defense. Hope we won't have to wait until Tinordi reaches prime.

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01-01-2012, 09:10 PM
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we need grigorenko

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