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Ian Cole-3 Game suspension

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Old
01-01-2012, 11:23 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by hockeyman1707 View Post
Maybe the Smith hit was a little too obvious NOT to call...Just because he correctly gives Smith 8 games here doesn't mean he hasn't shown a general trend of favoritism towards the wings. 1 Correct call doesn't make up for 6 very BS ones.
You act as though only the Red Wing players have gotten away with hits, which isn't true.

Being a Blues fan is hard, you don't have to tell me that, but all this talk that the world is out to get us and it's a conspiracy, and Shanny is being a homer, and Detroit gets away with everything is becoming a bit too much.

Shanny did play here and he did enjoy his time here, except for maybe Keenan, but that's a different story, so it's not like he sees the Blues and is like how can I screw them today. The Datsyuk play might have deserved a 2 minute penalty, but that was about it, that hit was more of just good, hard hockey between rivals. Cole's play was dangerous.

If you want to talk about conspiracy's or god awful calls, look at the Deckinger or the 5th down game against Mizzou or the kick and catch play in the Nebraska-Mizzou game.

Bottom-line, Cole deserved a suspension.

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01-01-2012, 11:29 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by diehardbluesfan View Post
When? I don't see a Smith on your roster plus never heard of the guy. Point is, Kronwall has a history of reckless hits and I don't recall a suspension off the top of my head on him or any other top player on Detroit. A reason for that is because they are probably the softest overall team in the league as far as hitting goes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xo2I_I380FM

That hit is similar to Cole's, just with a worse outcome.

I'll just assume the bolded part was an honest mistake.

If their was a conspiracy and if Shanny was a homer and since he played for the Blues and Wings, wouldn't Shanny be going after Chicago and not suspending players for hitting Chicago players?

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01-01-2012, 11:30 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by diehardbluesfan View Post
If you get hit in the jaw, you're not going to get a concussion, that's my point.

Yes it does, if his dumbass teammate didn't set him up to get nailed by having his head down, then he wouldn't of hit his head at all. Cole didn't even him that hard either.

Datsyuk's clearly hit Jackman in the head, even Wings fan on HF said that.

If you honestly think that, you are either very delusional or very biased. Datsyuk didn't even get a penalty on that hit, Lidstrom always get bailed out some how on penalties, the penalty on Dags and Arnott in the 1st game last week were just terrible that led to goals IIRC. The NHL & refs let Detroit and especially their super stars get away with a lot more than regular teams. If that was Lidstrom instead of Cole, he wouldn't of even got a fine, probably not even a penalty, and you know that's true.
You can absolutely get a concussion from a shot to the jaw, its one of the easiest ways to knock someone out cold as well.

Ericsson's dumb ass pass may have put Abdelkader in the vunerable position but it doesn't change the fact that its Coles job to make sure he contacts the body first not the head. Its not a factor in the leagues decision to suspend or not suspend, its just a silly justification you're using to defend a bad hit.

I'm not saying Datsyuk didn't hit Jackman in the head but if he hit body first than its a legal check by Shanahans standards.

at the irony of your post and you calling me biased!

Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyman1707 View Post
Yet Shanahan isn't being consistent with his Wings. A couple weeks ago, Kronwall performed the most reckless hit I have ever seen on Ryan Kesler by turning his back and leaving his feet. If what cole did was reckless and what Kronwall did wasn't, then I dont know what is. Kronwall never even got a game suspension for the **** he pulled that game. I hate the NHL for this reason.
Kronwalls hit was a textbook charge, he clearly left his feet making the hit but the principal point of contact was with Kesler's chest then his head, Coles was the opposite catching jaw first then body. They may both be illegal but the league has been very open about what they're cracking down on and Coles hit was a textbook example of it.

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01-01-2012, 11:32 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
Bottom-line, Cole deserved a suspension.
NOT 3 games...THAT is ridiculous

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01-01-2012, 11:37 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by hockeyman1707 View Post
NOT 3 games...THAT is ridiculous
The point of the suspension is to stop those type of plays from happening. 1 game suspensions are jokes and do absolutely nothing, just look at the NFL. Cole's hit could've been a lot worse than it was and the suspension is sending a message to Cole so he doesn't do it again.

Huskins is day-to-day and losing Cole isn't going to keep us from winning games.

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01-02-2012, 01:07 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by FlashyG View Post
You can absolutely get a concussion from a shot to the jaw, its one of the easiest ways to knock someone out cold as well.

Ericsson's dumb ass pass may have put Abdelkader in the vunerable position but it doesn't change the fact that its Coles job to make sure he contacts the body first not the head. Its not a factor in the leagues decision to suspend or not suspend, its just a silly justification you're using to defend a bad hit.

I'm not saying Datsyuk didn't hit Jackman in the head but if he hit body first than its a legal check by Shanahans standards.

at the irony of your post and you calling me biased!
Lol show me somebody got hit in the jaw that got a concussion? That is down right stupid.

Sill justification? That plays a big part in how he hit him, if he has head up like he should, it looked like it would have been a clean hit, but his teammate set him up to get drilled, not Cole's fault. So since Abdelkader has his head down, Cole shouldn't hit him in go in and get a great scoring opportunity?

He didn't though, it was a hit straight to Jackman's head, it should have been reviewed at the very least and more likely at least a game, but since he plays for Detroit and is a super star he got the treatment like one.

Smith's hit and Cole's aren't similar. Smith doesn't even hit the guys body, all head.

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01-02-2012, 01:38 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by diehardbluesfan View Post
Lol show me somebody got hit in the jaw that got a concussion? That is down right stupid.

Sill justification? That plays a big part in how he hit him, if he has head up like he should, it looked like it would have been a clean hit, but his teammate set him up to get drilled, not Cole's fault. So since Abdelkader has his head down, Cole shouldn't hit him in go in and get a great scoring opportunity?

He didn't though, it was a hit straight to Jackman's head, it should have been reviewed at the very least and more likely at least a game, but since he plays for Detroit and is a super star he got the treatment like one.

Smith's hit and Cole's aren't similar. Smith doesn't even hit the guys body, all head.
Stupid is claiming that hitting someone on the jaw or anywhere else in the head can't cause a concussion.

A concussion most commonly happens when a blow to the head is recieved and shakes the brain within the skull causing to stop functioning properly.
A Jawbone is pushed into the base of the skull and sometimes in serious cases the brain cavity can result in a very serious concussion. (In MMA or Boxing its called getting hit on the button)

The pass may have played a big part in the hit, but its irrelevant when it comes to the leagues dicipline. Hitting someone with his head down is just as illegal as hitting someone with their head up if your principal point of contact is the head. So yes in that instance Cole shouldn't have hit him, or better yet should have just dropped his shoulder into his chest and we'd all be talking about the awesome hit he threw.

Datsyuk's reputation as a multiple Lady Byng winner might have helped him out, as would his star status in the game but if you really believe there is a conspiracy to help the Wings out, you're beyond reason.

Smith's hit and Coles hit were very similar, they both made contact with the head first. Perhaps Cole hitting the body of Abdelkader after his head is the reason why he only got 3 games and Smith 8, but both were illegal hits and textbook examples of hits that the league wants out of the game.

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01-02-2012, 03:27 AM
  #33
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In the Red Wings - Blues thread over in the Detroit forum, I posted "**** you Cole! Shanny better give him a suspension", or something similar to that.

Now, after seeing the suspension, I have to say... I imagined 2 as the most that he'd get. Abdelkader is fine, as of right now. If Abdelkader was actually injured, I'd understand it a bit more... but wow, 3 games is a lot.

I can understand why Blues fans would be annoyed by this. I agree that 1-2 would have been enough, because he's not injured and it definitely wasn't an attempted headshot, but rather just a hit gone wrong. However, I think that calling it favoritism is just more of the conspiracy crap that every team seems to have.

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01-02-2012, 03:45 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xo2I_I380FM

That hit is similar to Cole's, just with a worse outcome.

I'll just assume the bolded part was an honest mistake.

If their was a conspiracy and if Shanny was a homer and since he played for the Blues and Wings, wouldn't Shanny be going after Chicago and not suspending players for hitting Chicago players?
Going by that reasoning since Shanny was a Whaler shouldn't Shanny be going after Bettman and the rest of the nhl for moving that team? Truth of the matter is Shanny is a human being and I'm also sure he isn't the only one reviewing the tape to decide the suspension legnths. By the time someone is promoted to that level one can only hope to be as unbiased as possible. There might be some cases that exist where there is slight bias but look at it this way Thornton a player who was in the nhl for quite some time before the nhl started taking these hits seriously got 2 games. He is a big name player and deserves some respect from the way he has played. The hit on Perron was much like this hit as the player is coming off the ice and acting on a play. The player skating was receiving a suicide pass (as they are being called now) and looking at the puck. Despite the fact that players are taught to check like Cole and Thornton did the players receiving the hit were in a vulnerable position making a play on the puck and without awareness of who is coming from that side. While I will agree that I would not have had any problems with this type of hit a few years ago before concussions seem to have existed. The length of which the players that receive them sit out must be dealt with. The only way that will happen is if plays like this are made aware of and the easiest way to accomplish that is through harsh punishment. Also an nhl player, more than likely, has no reason to favor one team over the other after they retire. The friends they made while playing for those teams might be a possibility.

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01-02-2012, 05:06 AM
  #35
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Cole deserved maybe a one game suspension for hitting Abdelkader's head while his head was down. Yeah, the onus is on the hitter not to hit the guys head, but I don't think he TARGETED the head, just happened to hit it.

One game, fine.

Now the Datsyuk his was clearly targeting the head with malicious intent, and he gets nothing.

If Cole's hit was worth 1 game, Datsyuk's was worth 3... So If Cole's is worth 3, then Datsyuk's is worth 9.

I am pissed. Is there any way to contact Shanahan or in some way show our discontent? This is well beyond ridiculous. This is so bad, the light from ridiculous will take a million years to reach this call, that's how beyond ridiculous this is.

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01-02-2012, 06:29 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
Shanny did play here and he did enjoy his time here.
Yeah he enjoyed his time here. Especially the part where Craig Janney's wife came in.

Maybe we could retro suspend Shanny from his duties for this play, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMWFu9c8Q9I

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01-02-2012, 09:46 AM
  #37
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My extended thoughts on this are posted on the main boards:

http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=4...&postcount=170

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01-02-2012, 10:03 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by diehardbluesfan View Post
If you get hit in the jaw, you're not going to get a concussion, that's my point.

If that was Lidstrom instead of Cole, he wouldn't of even got a fine, probably not even a penalty, and you know that's true.
From www.mahercorlabs.com/concussions.htmCauses of a Concussion:

Impact to the Jaw: If there is not adequate cushioning of the jawbones, they can be pushed into the base of the skull and even the brain cavity. This dangerous blow can disrupt brain function and activity causing a concussion as well as other skull damage.

PS Lidstrom doesn't need to make hits like Cole's.

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01-02-2012, 11:13 AM
  #39
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Just wanted to add my 2 cents that you can certainly get a concussion from a blow to the jaw, medically speaking.

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01-02-2012, 12:21 PM
  #40
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Just wanted to add my 2 cents that you can certainly get a concussion from a blow to the jaw, medically speaking.
Legal hits can give concussions. Do you think every hit to the head/jaw deserves a suspension? I don't.

I thought this was a fine hit. Can't believe there was supplementary discipline. His head wasn't targeted, it wasn't principle point of contact and it wasn't reckless. I'm just lost at Shanny's justification.

FWIW I didn't think Datysuk deserved anything either for his hit on Jackman.

This league is getting soft quick. It's getting to be very hard to make an legal open ice hit, or any hit with the head being contacted in.

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01-02-2012, 12:24 PM
  #41
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PS Lidstrom doesn't need to make hits like Cole's.
What in the hell is that supposed to mean? If your implying the only way to play the game is like Lidstrom, that's ridiculous. Lidstrom's great, but a physical presence is a very important part to many players games. That hit has been legal for decades for this year.

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01-02-2012, 12:34 PM
  #42
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Lol show me somebody got hit in the jaw that got a concussion? That is down right stupid.

Sill justification? That plays a big part in how he hit him, if he has head up like he should, it looked like it would have been a clean hit, but his teammate set him up to get drilled, not Cole's fault. So since Abdelkader has his head down, Cole shouldn't hit him in go in and get a great scoring opportunity?

He didn't though, it was a hit straight to Jackman's head, it should have been reviewed at the very least and more likely at least a game, but since he plays for Detroit and is a super star he got the treatment like one.

Smith's hit and Cole's aren't similar. Smith doesn't even hit the guys body, all head.
geez do we really have to go here?

The brain is surrounded by cerebrospinal fluid, one of the functions of which is to protect it from light trauma, but more severe impacts or the forces associated with rapid acceleration may not be absorbed by this cushion.[10] Concussion may be caused by impact forces, in which the head strikes or is struck by something, or impulsive forces, in which the head moves without itself being subject to blunt trauma (for example, when the chest hits something and the head snaps forward).

Relationship Between Whiplash and Concussion

It is obvious that during a whiplash event that, in addition to the soft-tissue neck injuries that there could be direct contact of the head on an unforgiving surface. A blow to the head can produce jarring, shaking, or excessive movement of the brain inside the skull. This would be a logical circumstance in which concussion could occur. But what about situations in which there is whiplash yet there is no direct contact of the head on any surface? The high velocity movement of the head during a whiplash event alone could produce the same effects. One example of this phenomenon occurred recently to an athlete in American professional baseball playing for the Milwaukee Brewers in Major League Baseball. In 2006, Corey Koskie suffered a concussion without a direct force to the head during a routine play in the field. While attempting to catch a ball batted in the air into shallow left field, he fell backward, landing on his upper back. The force of the fall did not cause his head to hit the playing surface but produced a whiplash-like force at the cervical spine. At this point, Koskie has missed two and one half baseball seasons because of concussion-like symptoms and his progress has been atypically slow. Victims of motor vehicle accidents have the potential for a similar response to a whiplash mechanism of injury. Recognition of the potential for these scenarios is important for proper treatment of the injured athlete or accident victim.

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01-02-2012, 01:56 PM
  #43
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From www.mahercorlabs.com/concussions.htmCauses of a Concussion:

Impact to the Jaw: If there is not adequate cushioning of the jawbones, they can be pushed into the base of the skull and even the brain cavity. This dangerous blow can disrupt brain function and activity causing a concussion as well as other skull damage.

PS Lidstrom doesn't need to make hits like Cole's.
PS My grandpa never gets pulled over because he drives 5 under the speed limit.

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01-02-2012, 02:04 PM
  #44
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geez do we really have to go here?

The brain is surrounded by cerebrospinal fluid, one of the functions of which is to protect it from light trauma, but more severe impacts or the forces associated with rapid acceleration may not be absorbed by this cushion.[10] Concussion may be caused by impact forces, in which the head strikes or is struck by something, or impulsive forces, in which the head moves without itself being subject to blunt trauma (for example, when the chest hits something and the head snaps forward).

Relationship Between Whiplash and Concussion

It is obvious that during a whiplash event that, in addition to the soft-tissue neck injuries that there could be direct contact of the head on an unforgiving surface. A blow to the head can produce jarring, shaking, or excessive movement of the brain inside the skull. This would be a logical circumstance in which concussion could occur. But what about situations in which there is whiplash yet there is no direct contact of the head on any surface? The high velocity movement of the head during a whiplash event alone could produce the same effects. One example of this phenomenon occurred recently to an athlete in American professional baseball playing for the Milwaukee Brewers in Major League Baseball. In 2006, Corey Koskie suffered a concussion without a direct force to the head during a routine play in the field. While attempting to catch a ball batted in the air into shallow left field, he fell backward, landing on his upper back. The force of the fall did not cause his head to hit the playing surface but produced a whiplash-like force at the cervical spine. At this point, Koskie has missed two and one half baseball seasons because of concussion-like symptoms and his progress has been atypically slow. Victims of motor vehicle accidents have the potential for a similar response to a whiplash mechanism of injury. Recognition of the potential for these scenarios is important for proper treatment of the injured athlete or accident victim.
I just have to say that this is a pretty good writeup on concussions. I agree that a hit to the jaw can cause a concussion, as can an accident where your head doesn't touch anything. Anytime inertia of the brain occurs there is a chance for concussion.

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01-02-2012, 06:28 PM
  #45
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Come on guys. Lets take our Blues glasses off for a minute. It doesn't matter what Dats did or didn't do.

We have to look at the Cole incedent as a stand alone thing. Bottom line, principal point of contact was the head. He got three games. Was it 1 too many, maybe, but if it is in line with what 1st time guys are getting then he deserves 3 games.

Getting into the "conspiracy" looks a tad foolish to outside fans. He got 3 games, time to move on and see what Fairchild can do.

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01-02-2012, 06:44 PM
  #46
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Legal hits can give concussions. Do you think every hit to the head/jaw deserves a suspension? I don't.

I thought this was a fine hit. Can't believe there was supplementary discipline. His head wasn't targeted, it wasn't principle point of contact and it wasn't reckless. I'm just lost at Shanny's justification.

FWIW I didn't think Datysuk deserved anything either for his hit on Jackman.

This league is getting soft quick. It's getting to be very hard to make an legal open ice hit, or any hit with the head being contacted in.
I disagree with your statement that the head wasn't the principle point of contact. It looked like it was to me, and evidently Shanahan.

The league is doing better this year. They've simplified the rules to something understandable. Its probably being policed more tightly right now than it will be ultimately, but that's part of changing the culture.

Simply: Any hit where the head is the principle point of contact is a problem. Supplemental discipline factors in things like: intent, what the other player did just prior to the hit, past history of the offender, etc. But the bottom line is that if you hit a guy in the head, expect discipline.

Suspended players are going to learn very quickly. Shanahan releasing explanatory videos on every single instance is fantastic, and beyond what I see in any other professional sport.

There will always be fringe cases, and disagreement. In Cole's case, it was a poor decision on the hit. I was surprised Pang didn't comment on it at the time, but not surprised to learn the league suspended Cole. 3 games seems a bit excessive, but the difference between one and three games isn't that much. Its the statement that matters.

I really don't care whether people call it "soft". When every team has star players sitting out with concussions, you have to do something to change the culture. I still see the sport as being incredibly physical. Backes has laid out tons of great hits all season, and none were illegal or with the head being the principle point of contact. With guys like him playing the way they are, legally, how is that soft?

Shanahan has an incredibly difficult job, and he's going to continue to piss off fans because the suspensions will continue. The culture must change.

The other place we see it is in the way injured players are handled. Lots of guys are missing games/practice now that would have been playing if it were 10 years ago, maybe just 5 years ago. It was wrong then, and guys have paid the price for those mistakes.

There will still be concussions and injuries, but anything to prevent the ones you can prevent should be done.

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01-02-2012, 07:30 PM
  #47
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Just wanted to say that I agree with the need to suspend Cole for that hit. He made the head the principle point of contact. Is three games too much? Thats debatable, but I think anything less than two does not deliver the message properly.

I also don't think there is a conspiracy. The Dats hit was dirty, but not the type of hit Cole delivered. Cole's was an obvious hit to the head. Dats hit was a lot more grey, especially in regards to the point of contact.

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01-02-2012, 08:47 PM
  #48
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Yet Shanahan isn't being consistent with his Wings. A couple weeks ago, Kronwall performed the most reckless hit I have ever seen on Ryan Kesler by turning his back and leaving his feet. If what cole did was reckless and what Kronwall did wasn't, then I dont know what is. Kronwall never even got a game suspension for the **** he pulled that game. I hate the NHL for this reason.
If that is the most reckless hit you have ever seen did you start watching hockey one month ago? Just because a hit is reckless does not mean it deserves a penalty. Kelser was not hit in the head. It was his stomach/chest. So to sum up, you are right. You clearly do not know what reckless is.

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01-02-2012, 09:10 PM
  #49
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You clearly do not know what reckless is.
Oh reckless? You mean like this? Keep drinking the kool-aid wings fans...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8SX1ujpgfM

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01-02-2012, 09:14 PM
  #50
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Smith got an 8 game suspension, longer than Stewart's and Cole's combined, there is no conspiracy. Shanny and the NHL maybe inconsistent, but there isn't a conspiracy. I mean come on guys that is just ridiculous. Refs have been bad for everyone this season, not just the Blues.
To be fair, it was 3 pre season and 5 regular season

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