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Eric Lindros Earned It

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01-01-2012, 06:01 PM
  #26
Betts11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
The bottom line is, what I see is a fanbase that hated him a decade ago for the reasons I listed above and more but has done a complete 180 without him doing anything. That is really my issue here. I'm not even really griping about Lindros. That ship sailed long ago and we can back and forth all day long like people have done in Philly since the 90s. I just don't understand the 180.
I think you don't understand not everyone feels the same way you do. I never hated Lindros and I know many people who feel the same why as I do.

I only know a few people who didn't like him. Just because a some people hate him doesn't mean the entire fan base does.

The guy gave 110 percent what more do you want? Its about hockey and what he is doing on the ice that matters to me and he brought it day in and day out.

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01-01-2012, 08:09 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Betts11 View Post
I think you don't understand not everyone feels the same way you do. I never hated Lindros and I know many people who feel the same why as I do.

I only know a few people who didn't like him. Just because a some people hate him doesn't mean the entire fan base does.
I guess we remember it differently. All those articles and stories and public feuding and other stuff that went on back then don't really count, I suppose.

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The guy gave 110 percent what more do you want? Its about hockey and what he is doing on the ice that matters to me and he brought it day in and day out.
Never questioned his play. Questioned the other stuff he brought to the team.

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01-01-2012, 10:11 PM
  #28
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I never hated Lindros and I thought both sides were at fault but no one side more then the other. Honestly I never even met anybody in person who hated or hates Lindros. I think it was more like 60/40 or at max maybe 70/30.

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01-01-2012, 10:50 PM
  #29
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I don't think its a forgive and forget situation as much as it is an acknowledgement that for better or for worse Lindros defined an era of Flyers hockey. For too long after Lindros was traded, both fans and the organization wanted to forget he was ever a part of the team. You can't rewrite your past. Lindros deserves his place in Flyers history, and its about time the team stepped up and realized this.

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01-01-2012, 11:01 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Betts11 View Post
I think you don't understand not everyone feels the same way you do. I never hated Lindros and I know many people who feel the same why as I do.

I only know a few people who didn't like him. Just because a some people hate him doesn't mean the entire fan base does.

The guy gave 110 percent what more do you want? Its about hockey and what he is doing on the ice that matters to me and he brought it day in and day out.
Thank you. Was just going to post this. I would say very confidently that the vast majority of Flyers fans liked or, at worst, were indifferent to Lindros.

Most of the people that "hated" him were staff (who were in the wrong) and those fans that bought into Bobby Clarke's criticisms.

I remember hearing Clarke criticize him back then and strip the captaincy. Then I remember Lindros working his ass off to come back from a concussion to do everything he could to help his team, score the only Flyers goal in game 6 against the Devils, then have his Flyers career ended while trying to carry a team whose management didn't want him on his back.

I was young back then, but it was pretty obvious which side (management vs Lindros) I wanted to support.

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01-02-2012, 01:10 AM
  #31
Betts11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
I guess we remember it differently. All those articles and stories and public feuding and other stuff that went on back then don't really count, I suppose.



Never questioned his play. Questioned the other stuff he brought to the team.
I'm not saying everyone felt the way I do about Lindros. We all have different feelings about the guy.

But you are making it seem that no one ever liked him, or ever supported him when that is not the case at all.

You aren't gonna read about the people who supported him back then. It doesn't make for a good story.

The only people who have done 180 with Lindros in my opinion is the the Flyers organization and the Philly media.


Last edited by Betts11: 01-02-2012 at 01:15 AM.
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01-02-2012, 08:30 AM
  #32
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Physical presence? Where the hell was that when the Wings swept a heavily favored Flyers team in 4? All the comments about how we would grind them down and wear them out. So much for that.

Detroit figured out the "Big E" was a non factor if you simply didnt react to him.

All I'm saying is as a team we gave the Nords the eventual building blocks to go on to win some cups. While the "next great one" didnt bring us anything but controversy.

Heck 20 years later and as a fan base were still arguing over him.

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01-02-2012, 09:07 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Tommy D View Post
Physical presence? Where the hell was that when the Wings swept a heavily favored Flyers team in 4? All the comments about how we would grind them down and wear them out. So much for that.

Detroit figured out the "Big E" was a non factor if you simply didnt react to him.

All I'm saying is as a team we gave the Nords the eventual building blocks to go on to win some cups. While the "next great one" didnt bring us anything but controversy.

Heck 20 years later and as a fan base were still arguing over him.
I would argue your point that Lindros didn't bring anything but controversy. He reenergized the fan base and made hockey in Philadelphia much more relevant.

And most of the arguments that still exist today aren't over whether or not he was any good. They're between the fan base that appreciates how great he was and the fan base that can't get over the other stuff that was made bigger than it should have been because of Clarke and Lindros's parents.

Lindros didn't lose us the Red Wings series; he was the reason we were there.

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01-02-2012, 09:14 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Betts11 View Post
I'm not saying everyone felt the way I do about Lindros. We all have different feelings about the guy.

But you are making it seem that no one ever liked him, or ever supported him when that is not the case at all.

You aren't gonna read about the people who supported him back then. It doesn't make for a good story.

The only people who have done 180 with Lindros in my opinion is the the Flyers organization and the Philly media.
Well obviously there were people who liked him, but when all the bad was going down, Lindros was a pariah. He was taking the heat. He was hated by a lot of people. Five years ago he wouldn't have been cheered. Nothing has changed since then and he gets a standing O. Are we really arguing about this?

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01-02-2012, 10:49 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Well obviously there were people who liked him, but when all the bad was going down, Lindros was a pariah. He was taking the heat. He was hated by a lot of people. Five years ago he wouldn't have been cheered. Nothing has changed since then and he gets a standing O. Are we really arguing about this?
Who cares? I mean, really. If you want to hold a grudge, knock yourself out. But getting your panties in a bunch because everyone else decided to put the past behind them is just petty.

I think the fact that Eric clearly wanted to come back goes a long way. He was the centerpiece of this organization for a decade, and whatever personal problems there were, you can't hate a guy forever when he busted his ass for you for that long. You just can't. Time to move on.

I was just a kid when Big E was here. He was never my favorite player, but I grew up with the Legion of Doom. He's a legend. For better or worse, he's a Flyers legend. Maybe instead of asking why everyone else has changed their minds, you should be wondering why you haven't. Especially considering you admitted he gave it all on the ice.

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01-02-2012, 10:57 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Lindros View Post
I would argue your point that Lindros didn't bring anything but controversy. He reenergized the fan base and made hockey in Philadelphia much more relevant.

And most of the arguments that still exist today aren't over whether or not he was any good. They're between the fan base that appreciates how great he was and the fan base that can't get over the other stuff that was made bigger than it should have been because of Clarke and Lindros's parents.

Lindros didn't lose us the Red Wings series; he was the reason we were there.
This

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01-02-2012, 10:59 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by GirouxGiroux View Post
Who cares? I mean, really. If you want to hold a grudge, knock yourself out. But getting your panties in a bunch because everyone else decided to put the past behind them is just petty.

I think the fact that Eric clearly wanted to come back goes a long way. He was the centerpiece of this organization for a decade, and whatever personal problems there were, you can't hate a guy forever when he busted his ass for you for that long. You just can't. Time to move on.

I was just a kid when Big E was here. He was never my favorite player, but I grew up with the Legion of Doom. He's a legend. For better or worse, he's a Flyers legend. Maybe instead of asking why everyone else has changed their minds, you should be wondering why you haven't. Especially considering you admitted he gave it all on the ice.
Oh ok. So he played hard to I have to like him now. Back then when people hated him and he was playing hard it was ok. But now I have to like him. So in ten years are we all going to buy Jody Shelley and Michael Leighton jerseys? They play hard too.

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01-02-2012, 11:01 AM
  #38
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I din't start getting into hockey until the 01 season (when I actually started following religiously), so I kinda missed the whole Lindros saga. I know of the bad blood but not the whole story. I'm sure no one here feels like explaining in detail, but does anyone know where I can look to get the full story? Thanks guys

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01-02-2012, 11:20 AM
  #39
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I disagree with the notion that nothing has changed since Lindros left and now to change perception/feelings. Something very important has changed.

Our understanding about concussions and how serious they are now treated. I think a lot of the 'he's not tough enough' attitude from Clarke and others towards Lindros is based on a 70s/80s attitude and if the same set of circumstances happened today the situation would be handled quite differently. Lindros played a heckuva physical game and as we've learned from NFL linebackers and safeties you can sustain just as much injury to your brain from *GIVING* the hit as taking the hit.

This is something Lindros had from back in Juniors so I don't think it was something he ever didn't play through while as a player.

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01-02-2012, 01:11 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Oh ok. So he played hard to I have to like him now. Back then when people hated him and he was playing hard it was ok. But now I have to like him. So in ten years are we all going to buy Jody Shelley and Michael Leighton jerseys? They play hard too.
You can't compare Shelley to what Lindros brought. You don't have to like the guy, but you don't have to question people who never hated him, And why people like him now.

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01-02-2012, 01:22 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Betts11 View Post
You can't compare Shelley to what Lindros brought. You don't have to like the guy, but you don't have to question people who never hated him, And why people like him now.
I have no beef with people who never hated him and continue to never hate him. It's the ones who hated him but now love him I don't understand.

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01-02-2012, 01:30 PM
  #42
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01-02-2012, 01:37 PM
  #43
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Did someone call my name?
Freudian slip. I'm just so used to arguing with you.

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01-02-2012, 02:08 PM
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Freudian slip. I'm just so used to arguing with you.
No you aren't


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01-02-2012, 02:56 PM
  #45
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No you aren't


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01-02-2012, 03:07 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
I have no beef with people who never hated him and continue to never hate him. It's the ones who hated him but now love him I don't understand.
Fair enough.

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01-02-2012, 07:34 PM
  #47
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LeClair was more valuable than Lindros to the Flyers overall and always scared me the most in the mid 90's when the Rags and Flyers were both top teams.

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01-02-2012, 07:52 PM
  #48
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Lindros with the Flyers 1992-93 to 1999-00
In order of PPG with top 21 players over that period (sorry bout no columns, but it is late and cba copying data into a table.)

Regular Playoffs
GP G A P PPG GP G A P PPG
Mario Lemieux 228 205 275 480 2.105 40 26 32 58 1.450
Jaromir Jagr 575 328 504 832 1.447 79 49 49 98 1.241
Eric Lindros 486 290 369 659 1.356 50 24 33 57 1.140
Teemu Selanne 564 346 383 729 1.293 21 13 7 20 0.952
Pat LaFontaine 278 135 219 354 1.273 12 4 12 16 1.333
Joe Sakic 553 264 429 693 1.253 93 43 60 103 1.108
Peter Forsberg 393 142 349 491 1.249 84 38 56 94 1.119
Paul Kariya 376 210 254 464 1.234 14 8 9 17 1.214
Wayne Gretzky 488 145 449 594 1.217 52 27 49 76 1.462
Pierre Turgeon 537 263 390 653 1.216 56 17 33 50 0.893
Pavel Bure 448 291 237 528 1.179 51 29 31 60 1.176
Adam Oates 582 181 501 682 1.171 53 12 37 49 0.925
Steve Yzerman 583 240 419 659 1.130 103 39 58 97 0.942
Alex Mogilny 511 269 298 567 1.110 48 19 18 37 0.771
Sergei Fedorov 515 238 331 569 1.105 111 36 82 118 1.063
Ron Francis 609 185 488 673 1.105 55 17 40 57 1.036
Mats Sundin 606 272 381 653 1.078 48 22 19 41 0.854
Brett Hull 561 308 294 602 1.073 96 46 43 99 1.031
Mark Recchi 616 247 407 654 1.062 45 17 26 43 0.956
Theo Fleury 611 260 381 641 1.049 42 25 31 56 1.333
Mark Messier 549 200 373 573 1.044 59 22 44 66 1.119

No doubt whatsoever he deserved it, when he was with the Flyers he was amazing, picked the team up on his back a lot of the time, was easily a top 3 player in the league for those 7 years.

His stats from 1992-93 to the end of 1998-99 are scarily similar to Crosby's from 05-06 to this year (sorry to bring him up but while compiling this list it struck me how bizarre the similarities are.)

GP=431 G=263 A=337 P=600 PPG=1.392
GP=420 G=217 A=367 P=584 PPG=1.390


Last edited by Appleyard: 01-02-2012 at 07:57 PM.
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01-02-2012, 07:57 PM
  #49
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Lindros is the reason I started watching and loving this team around 8 years of age. Was I disappointed about the injuries? Of course, but what could be done? Was I disappointed about the sideshow contract issues and issues with parents and brass? Of course. But I never solely blamed him. He'll always be one of my favorites, and you better believe I was standing, cheering covered in goosebumps with a lump in my throat when he walked out on Saturday. As unrealistic as it is, I'd love to see him come back for another season and center the 3rd line.

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01-02-2012, 08:10 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Embryo View Post
LeClair was more valuable than Lindros to the Flyers overall and always scared me the most in the mid 90's when the Rags and Flyers were both top teams.
There is a reason that LeClair never had more than 25 goals (01-02), 32 assists (03-04) and 55 points (03-04) without Lindros.

Yet with him never had less than 40 goals (1999-00), 36 assists (1997-98) and 77 points (1999-00).

Yet Lindros managed a 75 point rookie year (61GP), 97 point sophomore year (65GP) and was still a ppg player in his first year with the Rangers. All without LeClair. They both complimented and improved each other, but Johnny benefited far more in terms of production from that relationship. And I love LeClair.

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