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Old
01-02-2012, 01:55 PM
  #26
MasterDecoy
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Originally Posted by Prairie Habs View Post
Agreed, if we had let one of our best D go that would mean we were going for a cup run...
...

no.

that means he's checking if any of the impending UFAs can be re-signed. if not, they can be traded before or at the deadline. simple no?

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01-02-2012, 02:18 PM
  #27
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The fact is that Cammalleri was thriving under a different scenario with Iginla, playing away from the best defenders, whereas now, he was used to play with Plekanec. Selke-caliber matchups and situation.
Not the same problem at all, and you're surprised that he's having an hard time when he's even more watched now that Gionta is out ?
Having been forced to watch more Flames games than I want, I can say Iginla and Cammy were always matched up against the other team's best D. He isn't playing well. The reasoning is unknown.

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01-02-2012, 02:32 PM
  #28
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Do you guys think that PG and Molson will send Gomez to Hamilton as soon as he is cleared to play?

If he does, then they try to salvage the season...if they don't, then a full tank could be on...Feb 27th will be an interesting day for the Habs...

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01-02-2012, 02:42 PM
  #29
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Cammalleri is a piece of **** smurf
Leading the playoffs twice in goal scoring while they were in it leads me to disagree, what are you 12? Don't like the guy that is one thing, but your tone is ridiculous.

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01-02-2012, 02:44 PM
  #30
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I'm glad, keeping Gauthier around I think is the only way to truly tank this season. Get rid of him before the draft (or right before the trade deadline), that'd be great.

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01-02-2012, 02:51 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by CrimsonSkorpion View Post
The vets
Plekanec - 29 points in 39 games. -10. For a guy that is highly regarded as a good two-way player, he needs to improve defensively this season.
Cammalleri - 21 points in 34 games, 8 goals. Not scoring nearly enough for a sniper and his work without the puck is dreadful.
Gionta - 15 points in 29 games. Work ethic is there when he plays, but the production isn't there.
Cole - Leads the team with 16 goals. Has really turned it on since his slow start to the season.
Moen - 12 points in 37 games, 9 goals. Solid bottom 6 player and one of the bigger surprises of the season.
Kaberle - 7 assists in 10 games with the Habs. Looks good and has helped the powerplay, defensively needs to be a bit better though.
Gill - Habs penalty kill is 2nd best in the league. Gill is doing his job.
Darche - Disappointment from last season's effort.
Gomez - No explanation needed here.

So yes, blame can be placed all around when it comes to the vets. For the most part, they need to be better in some or many aspects of the game.
There is more than goals and points.

Plekanec's quality of competition level is incredibly high.
We do know that he is used against the best players every night, but i dont think that we realized how this is important.

Laich is the only forward in the league facing, in average, stronger players than him (well, according to Desjardins' website)

And im not even talking about his use with zone starts and the score, because its even "worse". The point is that Plekanec is used as a very-defensive shield for Desharnais, and its basically impossible to give him a tougher task that he faced during the first months of the year.
(And i am also going to say that most of his minus did come from games under Cunneyworth...)

This is partially the same problem for Cammalleri, he's facing much better players than he was used to, and in a much more defensive situation, he's obviously not the best fit. (But with an exploitation line that is working and several players injured, the number of options is very small)

Gionta being also a Plekanec's linemate for an extended period, his numbers are also affected by the very defensive use of the line.

(Still, if we're strictly talking about numbers, he's on pace for 40+ pts, last year, he reached 46.)

So, they're used in a very defensive role, and you're blaming them because they are not as successful offensively as they previously were ?
The fact that the role of the line changed is really that difficult to understand ?

Darche is a 4th liner, Gomez is injured, Kaberle did play less than 10 games with us, they should not be in the conversation.

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01-02-2012, 03:09 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by BLONG7 View Post
Do you guys think that PG and Molson will send Gomez to Hamilton as soon as he is cleared to play?

If he does, then they try to salvage the season...if they don't, then a full tank could be on...Feb 27th will be an interesting day for the Habs...
I'm going to the Habs game in Tampa on the 28th. i wonder how many guys will be gone....Hopefully a few of them.

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01-02-2012, 03:22 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Rutabaga View Post
There is more than goals and points.

Plekanec's quality of competition level is incredibly high.
We do know that he is used against the best players every night, but i dont think that we realized how this is important.


Laich is the only forward in the league facing, in average, stronger players than him (well, according to Desjardins' website)

And im not even talking about his use with zone starts and the score, because its even "worse". The point is that Plekanec is used as a very-defensive shield for Desharnais, and its basically impossible to give him a tougher task that he faced during the first months of the year.
(And i am also going to say that most of his minus did come from games under Cunneyworth...)

This is partially the same problem for Cammalleri, he's facing much better players than he was used to, and in a much more defensive situation, he's obviously not the best fit. (But with an exploitation line that is working and several players injured, the number of options is very small)

Gionta being also a Plekanec's linemate for an extended period, his numbers are also affected by the very defensive use of the line.

(Still, if we're strictly talking about numbers, he's on pace for 40+ pts, last year, he reached 46.)

So, they're used in a very defensive role, and you're blaming them because they are not as successful offensively as they previously were ?
The fact that the role of the line changed is really that difficult to understand ?

Darche is a 4th liner, Gomez is injured, Kaberle did play less than 10 games with us, they should not be in the conversation.
Pleks has been playing against the other team's best for multiple years now. He actually being compared to guys like datsyuk and kesler around here not too long ago. He has shown that he can compete against the best before, and he's paid like one too. You expect more out of him.

It was a pretty well executed PC by PG, although I only heard the English side. The only contradicting thing he said was that they wanted to see how gorges knee reacts before singing him long term. He certainly didnt do that with andrei, although I suppose its a different case when one is a ufa and the other is RFA after the knee reconstruction.

He pointed out the obvious, said all the right things, and took accountability for the poor results.


Last edited by Hackett: 01-02-2012 at 03:32 PM.
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Old
01-02-2012, 03:26 PM
  #34
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How much time did he speak English compared to French, this is very important to know.
Also, did he make sure to speak twice as loud in French as he did in English?

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01-02-2012, 03:28 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by MasterDecoy View Post
...

no.

that means he's checking if any of the impending UFAs can be re-signed. if not, they can be traded before or at the deadline. simple no?
Or he could be a good player who we resigned at the first possible moment. Even simpler.

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01-02-2012, 03:33 PM
  #36
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We need to fire Gauthier. I don't trust him when he said that "they" will do everything to turn this team around. He will do something bad again, i can feel it.

Fire this clown.
It's definitely a scary time...this team needs to just accept its garbage season and take the right steps towards building up its prospect/pick base and turning the ship around as soon as possible.

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01-02-2012, 03:36 PM
  #37
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I cannot believe the things he said about Cunnyworth.

I realize there is drama in the media, and frankly, I'm of the opinion the coach should speak french if only to cut the circus this creates...

But he basically just fired Cunnyworth in that press conference. There is a complete lack of respect for the team, the coach and the, frankly, the season in his comments. You cannot throw your coach under the bus like this. He said that being bilingual is a key requirement of the next coach and that Cunnyworth is only temporary.

If that is the case, why the hell is he there? How is he supposed to command any respect from his players when it's clear that anything short of a random Cup run isn't going to keep him behind the bench (and I doubt that would be enough).

The comments may quell some media members for a week or two, but it was a horrible thing to say about an employee who is struggling to turn things around right now. We all kind of knew he was likely a lame duck coach, but I've never seen a team make it official like that. Absurd.

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01-02-2012, 03:39 PM
  #38
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Pleks has been playing against the other team's best for multiple years now. He actually being compared to guys like datsyuk and kesler around here not too long ago. He has shown that he can compete against the best before, and he's paid like one too. You expect more out of him.

It was a pretty well executed PC by PG, although I only heard the English side. The only contradicting thing he said was that they wanted to see how gorges knee reacts before singing him long term. He certainly didnt do that with andrei, although I suppose its a different case when one is a ufa and the other is still signed on after the knee reconstruction.

He pointed out the obvious, said all the right things, and took accountability for the poor results.
Not as often and in such a defensive role. (And its also a problem for the linemates, Cammalleri and Gionta)

The only player that is arguably used in an even more difficult defensive situation than Plekanec, around the league, is Bolland. And thats debatable.

Really, it seems that a lot of people are simply unable to realize that this is a real problem, because it completely modifies the behaviour of the players, and it should modify the expectations you have of them.

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Old
01-02-2012, 03:40 PM
  #39
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I cannot believe the things he said about Cunnyworth.

I realize there is drama in the media, and frankly, I'm of the opinion the coach should speak french if only to cut the circus this creates...

But he basically just fired Cunnyworth in that press conference. There is a complete lack of respect for the team, the coach and the, frankly, the season in his comments. You cannot throw your coach under the bus like this. He said that being bilingual is a key requirement of the next coach and that Cunnyworth is only temporary.

If that is the case, why the hell is he there? How is he supposed to command any respect from his players when it's clear that anything short of a random Cup run isn't going to keep him behind the bench (and I doubt that would be enough).

The comments may quell some media members for a week or two, but it was a horrible thing to say about an employee who is struggling to turn things around right now. We all kind of knew he was likely a lame duck coach, but I've never seen a team make it official like that. Absurd.
I'm not happy about cunneyworth's treatment either, unless PG made it clear before he got hired that he is only the interim guy, and they will find a more permanent replacement after. If cunneyworth was okay with that, then I dont have a huge problem with it.

Cunneyworth was probably just happy to get some sort of nhl experience, and get his name back on the radar around the league as a good head coach candidate. Unfortunately, the results haven't been there for him though.

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01-02-2012, 03:41 PM
  #40
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agree 100 % Lucius, Cunneyworth is only one in organization showing any class now.

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Old
01-02-2012, 03:43 PM
  #41
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I'm not happy about cunneyworth's treatment either, unless PG made it clear before he got hired that he is only the interim guy, and they will find a more permanent replacement after. If cunneyworth was okay with that, then I dont have a huge problem with it.

Cunneyworth was probably just happy to get some sort of nhl experience, and get his name back on the radar around the league as a good head coach candidate. Unfortunately, the results haven't been there for him though.
Regardless of what he said to him, which I admit would help, he didn't make it clear to the media. So to me, it just looks like someone caving to media pressure and throwing a loyal soldier under the bus.

As I said in another thread, at this point, I'd fire them all. Gauthier for cause, everyone else partly just to give the organization a fresh start and Cunnyworth for humanitarian reasons.

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01-02-2012, 03:43 PM
  #42
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This business of saying that Cunneyworth is temporary is completely idiotic. Why should the players buy completely into whatever changes he is trying to make on the ice if he isn't going to potentially be there long term?

Gauthier needs to be fired. He has made a complete mess of things.

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01-02-2012, 03:44 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Lucius View Post
I cannot believe the things he said about Cunnyworth.

I realize there is drama in the media, and frankly, I'm of the opinion the coach should speak french if only to cut the circus this creates...

But he basically just fired Cunnyworth in that press conference. There is a complete lack of respect for the team, the coach and the, frankly, the season in his comments. You cannot throw your coach under the bus like this. He said that being bilingual is a key requirement of the next coach and that Cunnyworth is only temporary.

If that is the case, why the hell is he there? How is he supposed to command any respect from his players when it's clear that anything short of a random Cup run isn't going to keep him behind the bench (and I doubt that would be enough).

The comments may quell some media members for a week or two, but it was a horrible thing to say about an employee who is struggling to turn things around right now. We all kind of knew he was likely a lame duck coach, but I've never seen a team make it official like that. Absurd.
It's pretty sickening.

I gave Gauthier some leeway with the Pearn firing, I didn't think it deserved the media backlash that it generated. But everything since has just gone to show that decisions like that and the complete lack of tact by management are the rule rather than the exception.

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01-02-2012, 03:45 PM
  #44
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If I were RC I would resign. What is PG thinking saying this crap to the media? He should be defending his coach and criticizing the idiocy of the media surrounding the language issue. But of course, that would offend his own boss, Mister Molson, who had to go and say to the media that it is important the coach speaks French.

This organization is becoming a laughing stock of the NHL. Sad times.

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01-02-2012, 03:47 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Lucius View Post
I cannot believe the things he said about Cunnyworth.

I realize there is drama in the media, and frankly, I'm of the opinion the coach should speak french if only to cut the circus this creates...

But he basically just fired Cunnyworth in that press conference. There is a complete lack of respect for the team, the coach and the, frankly, the season in his comments. You cannot throw your coach under the bus like this. He said that being bilingual is a key requirement of the next coach and that Cunnyworth is only temporary.

If that is the case, why the hell is he there? How is he supposed to command any respect from his players when it's clear that anything short of a random Cup run isn't going to keep him behind the bench (and I doubt that would be enough).

The comments may quell some media members for a week or two, but it was a horrible thing to say about an employee who is struggling to turn things around right now. We all kind of knew he was likely a lame duck coach, but I've never seen a team make it official like that. Absurd.
IMO Montreal already has Roy as their next coach. He said he would listen to offers at the end of the season. I believe he is already penciled in, which is why Cunneyworth is finishing the season.

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01-02-2012, 03:47 PM
  #46
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Not as often and in such a defensive role. (And its also a problem for the linemates, Cammalleri and Gionta)

The only player that is arguably used in an even more difficult defensive situation than Plekanec, around the league, is Bolland. And thats debatable.

Really, it seems that a lot of people are simply unable to realize that this is a real problem, because it completely modifies the behaviour of the players, and it should modify the expectations you have of them.
He was Mr. Everything with Martin. Pleks was used as our 2 way centre to score points and shutdown the opposition's best. He only started receiving media recognition for it in the 2010 playoffs when he was regularly matched up against ovechkin or crosby.

Pleks can play against these guys, he's proven so in the past. Pleks' issue imo is that he gets very down when things are rough. We saw that in 08/09 when he scored about 40 points when coming off a 70 point season and called himself a little girl. You can see in his body language right now that he is extremely frustrated, and that is just making things worse for him. He's gotta develop some sort of even keel outlook so the down times dont affect his mental state so much.

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01-02-2012, 03:51 PM
  #47
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IMO Montreal already has Roy as their next coach. He said he would listen to offers at the end of the season. I believe he is already penciled in, which is why Cunneyworth is finishing the season.
While I'm not entirely against it as an idea, I think the GM should decide the coach and I don't think they've got next season's GM yet.

Also, if that was the case, why the hell didn't the bring in the AHL staff? They have a francophone behind the bench in Hamilton who could have filled in to the end of the year without the drama.

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01-02-2012, 03:55 PM
  #48
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I cannot believe the things he said about Cunnyworth.

I realize there is drama in the media, and frankly, I'm of the opinion the coach should speak french if only to cut the circus this creates...

But he basically just fired Cunnyworth in that press conference. There is a complete lack of respect for the team, the coach and the, frankly, the season in his comments. You cannot throw your coach under the bus like this. He said that being bilingual is a key requirement of the next coach and that Cunnyworth is only temporary.

If that is the case, why the hell is he there? How is he supposed to command any respect from his players when it's clear that anything short of a random Cup run isn't going to keep him behind the bench (and I doubt that would be enough).

The comments may quell some media members for a week or two, but it was a horrible thing to say about an employee who is struggling to turn things around right now. We all kind of knew he was likely a lame duck coach, but I've never seen a team make it official like that. Absurd.
I've been saying this for a while. The Habs were once a very classy, well run organization. Now, they're a joke. Smug and delusional arrogance. They really need to work on how they treat people.

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01-02-2012, 03:56 PM
  #49
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Regardless of what he said to him, which I admit would help, he didn't make it clear to the media. So to me, it just looks like someone caving to media pressure and throwing a loyal soldier under the bus.

As I said in another thread, at this point, I'd fire them all. Gauthier for cause, everyone else partly just to give the organization a fresh start and Cunnyworth for humanitarian reasons.
like I said in previous threads, about the coach not speaking french and all, the WHOLE blame is on the Org on this.

they knew very well when they fired JM that an unilingual coach would create a HUGE storm (unless they're REALLY stupid). They did it anyway, then PG saying language can be learned, then Molson issuing a statement, and now PG talking about a new coach...

all this is a joke... not only did they miss big time thinking there wouldnt much of an issue with an unilingual coach... but the best they can find to calm things down is to throw their employee under the bus...

and all the guy is asking is a chance to prove his worth as a HC. (to other org. obviously, but still)

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01-02-2012, 04:02 PM
  #50
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like I said in previous threads, about the coach not speaking french and all, the WHOLE blame is on the Org on this.

they knew very well when they fired JM that an unilingual coach would create a HUGE storm (unless they're REALLY stupid). They did it anyway, then PG saying language can be learned, then Molson issuing a statement, and now PG talking about a new coach...

all this is a joke... not only did they miss big time thinking there wouldnt much of an issue with an unilingual coach... but the best they can find to calm things down is to throw their employee under the bus...

and all the guy is asking is a chance to prove his worth as a HC. (to other org. obviously, but still)
Well it started with Molson's statement. He said basically the same thing and from that point forward it was clear that Cunnyworth had no chance. I feel bad for him in this, but for them to double down on it today is just once again twisting the knife.

Complete lack of class sums up this organization right now. They're seriously hard to like and we're starting to see that show up. I've never seen more empty seats in the arena than this year, despite it being supposedly sold out. It's BS.

Honestly, if I had to guess, I'd take this further. Things started going sideways the moment Molson took over. First forcing Boivin out, albeit slowly. Then the Gauthier/Gainey mess after Gainey reshaped the team. Now this.

Organizations inherit the personality of their bosses and to me you have to trace this to the top. Molson is responsible, but given we're stuck with him, let's hope he knows enough to step back and put some people in charge who know what they're doing.

Doubt it though.

Bold prediction: Molson is the GM within 2-3 years.

Second prediction: If it happens, it's the day I pick a new team to cheer for.

This whole thing reminds me of the Dallas Cowboys.

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