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The "Fire Arniel" Thread

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01-03-2012, 12:59 AM
  #976
Doug19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leek View Post
So the Klesla deal was to get rid of a bad contract.

Who negotiated that contract for the Blue Jackets, and when was it consummated?
I never said Howson was good at resigns or signing players, I said he is good at making trades, he always get something of value in trades. The Klesla trade was about dumping that bad contract so that we could upgrade in the offseason.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CBJCougar View Post
Rusty has missed 7 games, none of which involved being suspended. Wiz has missed more than that prior to the broken ankle. How much are we paying James? What's your point again?

Did Howson get good value for Klesla? I said at the time it was a loaner situation and it was. You don't piss away assets for loaners. And you damn sure don't make it a priority to call an AHL player named Sestito while letting the Original Blue Jacket find out he was traded on tv!! Oops.

Howson traded away both Klesla and Hejda, the cornerstones of our "tough to play against" defense. Can you say that about us now? With a straight face?? As a result, did he manage to create an offense that is capable of scoring more than 2 goals per game??

Howson overpays every day. He does it because he puts himself into a position where he has to. He is reactive, not proactive. He is not a good leader. There is not one solid situation where he has been brilliant.

And I will go on record as saying I like Wiz. I do. But the dude needs discipline or he's gonna be another notch on the "I was trying to do good" belt that Howson wears to each and every loss that we have had.
First paragraph: Doesn't matter what we are paying Wiz as far as my comment was concerned. Like I said above, I didn't say Howson is good at signing or resigning players, he's actually pretty damn terrible at identifying the correct people and signing them to the correct contract amount. This is all proven by the fact that he has overpaid decently for the services of Nash, Umberger, Tyutin, Brassard, Methot, Mason, Wiznewski, Commodore, almost Redden, and Huselius. Howson is terrible at identifying who should be the core guys and how much they should make, he has proven that by this seasons showing.

second paragraph: Howson did get good value for Klesla. He got a winger who provided solid secondary scoring and a bottom pairing defender all to help with the playoff push. The best thing he got out of that trade was an out on the bad extension he signed Klesla to in the first place, so that trade was definitely a win trade, now would I rather have Klesla on this teams 2nd pairing than Clitsome? Sure, but not at 3 million just like I don't think anybody liked Methot getting signed to a 3 million extension. He didn't piss away an asset, he got rid of a liability.

third paragraph: Hejda was a cornerstone of our tough to play against defense, but he also regressed significantly after he was injured to the point where he looked horrible on the ice often. Klesla wasn't a cornerstone on defense at all, in fact he was constantly injured, he did have a 4 good playoff games though, but other than that, he was still the same defender who couldn't make a good decision with the puck and Hejda was well past his prime, not only that, but our defense hasn't been good at all except for 2009, I don't know where you got the idea that the D was good, but our defense has given up at least a 3.0 GPG average every year since the playoff season.

The rest: Howson overpays in free agency and keeping his own players. I'm not sure why that is in the case of retaining his own guys, but the free agent market is more because the market demands the price (although I question the market demand for Wiz, Commodore, and Huselius at the price we got them). He has yet to make a bad trade or one that he overpaid in, but if you can show me one that he did other than the Klesla trade that I Just don't agree with, then by all means let me know.

Can't believe I'm defending this guy, I need to take a shower now.


Last edited by Doug19: 01-03-2012 at 01:14 AM.
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Old
01-03-2012, 04:06 AM
  #977
savemefromtears
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If it makes you guys feel any better, I made this in honor of firing Terry Murray and not more than a week later he was canned. And now The Kings are playing the way the should under Darryl Sutter.



I feel bad for you Blue Jacket fans. That whole meltdown at the podium was hard to watch. This guy is clearly beaten down mentally, physically, and spirituality.

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Old
01-03-2012, 06:47 AM
  #978
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Originally Posted by savemefromtears View Post
I feel bad for you Blue Jacket fans. That whole meltdown at the podium was hard to watch. This guy is clearly beaten down mentally, physically, and spirituality.
As are the CBJ fans.

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Old
01-03-2012, 07:15 AM
  #979
TaketheCannoli
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug61 View Post
I never said Howson was good at resigns or signing players, I said he is good at making trades, he always get something of value in trades. The Klesla trade was about dumping that bad contract so that we could upgrade in the offseason.
So, you're saying that after he screws up and dramatically reduces the value of his players, he can get a little more than their distressed value.

That's like defending a person who crashes a new car and then sells it for slightly more than salvage value.





Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug61 View Post
First paragraph: Doesn't matter what we are paying Wiz as far as my comment was concerned. Like I said above, I didn't say Howson is good at signing or resigning players, he's actually pretty damn terrible at identifying the correct people and signing them to the correct contract amount. This is all proven by the fact that he has overpaid decently for the services of Nash, Umberger, Tyutin, Brassard, Methot, Mason, Wiznewski, Commodore, almost Redden, and Huselius. Howson is terrible at identifying who should be the core guys and how much they should make, he has proven that by this seasons showing.
So you want him making trades for the wrong people? Hey, maybe he can trade Johansen for Souray and a 2nd!

Quote:
second paragraph: Howson did get good value for Klesla. He got a winger who provided solid secondary scoring and a bottom pairing defender all to help with the playoff push. The best thing he got out of that trade was an out on the bad extension he signed Klesla to in the first place, so that trade was definitely a win trade, now would I rather have Klesla on this teams 2nd pairing than Clitsome? Sure, but not at 3 million just like I don't think anybody liked Methot getting signed to a 3 million extension. He didn't piss away an asset, he got rid of a liability.
Actually, he turned an asset into a liability, then got rid of it. Brilliant!!!

Quote:
third paragraph: Hejda was a cornerstone of our tough to play against defense, but he also regressed significantly after he was injured to the point where he looked horrible on the ice often. Klesla wasn't a cornerstone on defense at all, in fact he was constantly injured, he did have a 4 good playoff games though, but other than that, he was still the same defender who couldn't make a good decision with the puck and Hejda was well past his prime, not only that, but our defense hasn't been good at all except for 2009, I don't know where you got the idea that the D was good, but our defense has given up at least a 3.0 GPG average every year since the playoff season.
And now it gives up more.
Quote:
The rest: Howson overpays in free agency and keeping his own players. I'm not sure why that is in the case of retaining his own guys, but the free agent market is more because the market demands the price (although I question the market demand for Wiz, Commodore, and Huselius at the price we got them). He has yet to make a bad trade or one that he overpaid in, but if you can show me one that he did other than the Klesla trade that I Just don't agree with, then by all means let me know.

OK- here are two:

Glencross for Tarnstrom
Chimera for Clark and Jurcina

and for a bonus!

Jurcina back to Washington for NOTHING!

Quote:
Can't believe I'm defending this guy, I need to take a shower now.

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Old
01-03-2012, 07:32 AM
  #980
CBJCougar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug61 View Post
I never said Howson was good at resigns or signing players, I said he is good at making trades, he always get something of value in trades. The Klesla trade was about dumping that bad contract so that we could upgrade in the offseason.



First paragraph: Doesn't matter what we are paying Wiz as far as my comment was concerned. Like I said above, I didn't say Howson is good at signing or resigning players, he's actually pretty damn terrible at identifying the correct people and signing them to the correct contract amount. This is all proven by the fact that he has overpaid decently for the services of Nash, Umberger, Tyutin, Brassard, Methot, Mason, Wiznewski, Commodore, almost Redden, and Huselius. Howson is terrible at identifying who should be the core guys and how much they should make, he has proven that by this seasons showing.

second paragraph: Howson did get good value for Klesla. He got a winger who provided solid secondary scoring and a bottom pairing defender all to help with the playoff push. The best thing he got out of that trade was an out on the bad extension he signed Klesla to in the first place, so that trade was definitely a win trade, now would I rather have Klesla on this teams 2nd pairing than Clitsome? Sure, but not at 3 million just like I don't think anybody liked Methot getting signed to a 3 million extension. He didn't piss away an asset, he got rid of a liability.

third paragraph: Hejda was a cornerstone of our tough to play against defense, but he also regressed significantly after he was injured to the point where he looked horrible on the ice often. Klesla wasn't a cornerstone on defense at all, in fact he was constantly injured, he did have a 4 good playoff games though, but other than that, he was still the same defender who couldn't make a good decision with the puck and Hejda was well past his prime, not only that, but our defense hasn't been good at all except for 2009, I don't know where you got the idea that the D was good, but our defense has given up at least a 3.0 GPG average every year since the playoff season.

The rest: Howson overpays in free agency and keeping his own players. I'm not sure why that is in the case of retaining his own guys, but the free agent market is more because the market demands the price (although I question the market demand for Wiz, Commodore, and Huselius at the price we got them). He has yet to make a bad trade or one that he overpaid in, but if you can show me one that he did other than the Klesla trade that I Just don't agree with, then by all means let me know.

Can't believe I'm defending this guy, I need to take a shower now.
First of all, no one will ever describe Scotty Upshall as solid secondary scoring. LOL He is as streaky as his hair. Howson brought him in to shore up our special teams instead of focusing on the PP QB that we needed. Again, Howson's focus was off target. He is so far out of touch with what is on the ice, just like his coach that doesn't know the stats of one of our biggest issues currently.

That's crap about Klesla not making good decisions with the puck. He is not known for his turnovers. He parked his big body in front of the net and protected our best interests. Sexy double digit scoring for a defenseman? No. But his job was to prevent. I find value in that. He was a huge part of our penalty kill and always logged heavy minutes. Not to mention, the boy had a heavy wrester.

There is no perfect soldier to play out an entire season, every season, all of his career. Every team deals with it. Our problem is not only lack of depth, but also forwards who don't get back to help out. We then have a situation where all the defensive options have to include sacrificing the body. The thing with Klesla going down was that it left a big hole. That's what made me holler "damn it!" when he was helped off the ice. Who was gonna pick up the slack? Calling up a kid from Springfield? Every time he went down, it was huge.

Is Wiz an upgrade? Sure. He currently has 1 more goal and a handful of assists more than Klesla. Is that worth the almost 3 mil more per year? Not to me. Is Wiz a dependable work horse? I don't know. He's out again. Injuries hurt more when it's a guy that logs the minutes. And they are always gonna be there.

And BTW, that over the hill, broken down Hejda came into town and scored on our ass while we were sleeping in front of the net with the more bang for the buck, younger, defense you justify on watch, most of whom are sitting in the press box.

You and I are never gonna see eye to eye on the Klesla trade. That's ok. The fact remains that at a time when we went looking for upgrades, the one player that generated both interest and offers was Rusty. It's not fair to dismiss him like he was crap when he clearly is not viewed that way in the league.

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Old
01-03-2012, 07:37 AM
  #981
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Leek, I wish I had your wit!! LOL

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Old
01-03-2012, 07:56 AM
  #982
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leek View Post
So, you're saying that after he screws up and dramatically reduces the value of his players, he can get a little more than their distressed value.

That's like defending a person who crashes a new car and then sells it for slightly more than salvage value.







So you want him making trades for the wrong people? Hey, maybe he can trade Johansen for Souray and a 2nd!



Actually, he turned an asset into a liability, then got rid of it. Brilliant!!!



And now it gives up more.



OK- here are two:

Glencross for Tarnstrom
Chimera for Clark and Jurcina

and for a bonus!

Jurcina back to Washington for NOTHING!
Good Jesus, every GM has not ideal trades or signs even Holland too.

But Howson has especially good trades.

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Old
01-03-2012, 08:22 AM
  #983
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug61 View Post
I never said Howson was good at resigns or signing players, I said he is good at making trades, he always get something of value in trades.
Please don't confuse my response as support for cougar because . . . . . . . it's certainly not. However, you can't expect us to swallow the "he's good at trades" along with the "not good at resigns or signing players". Christ man, he forces himself to trade away things we shouldn't trade because he overpaid in the first place.

That's a crappy general manager there with a ****** coach beneath him. It's the perfect recipe for DOOM and we all get a nice heaping helping of it nearly every time the Jackets plan any more.

I like Priest on a personal level (worked with him before) but either his inaction or inaction from above him makes me furious. No one in that front office should remain.

And on a slightly different subject, if I see another "Fail for Nail" I am going to ****ing scream. Any moron professing this forgets that the CBJ takes good players and allows them to become **** right in front of our eyes. So lose the pipe dream that some magical, player is going to turn this boat around single-handedly.


Last edited by jktsfan*: 01-03-2012 at 08:30 AM. Reason: missed a 't'
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