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Ron Wilson's 97-98 Caps hold NHL record for best penalty kill ever

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Old
01-04-2012, 12:23 PM
  #26
indigobuffalo
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I'm sure the average age of the PKers on any of those teams will be a good indicator of where to look for vetting out frustrations over the current PK woes.

We have a young team, they make mistakes, they learn and get better.

IMO the reason the PK has not shown any marked improvement is that we are not getting a true PKing greybeard to teach the kids and with that, we're also seeing a revolving door of players taking on that role.

So while yes, we have TRIED the SAME system with different people and got the same results, we also haven't given a lot of time to really master the finer points and consequently are not seeing enough consistency.

These guys will get it sooner than later, but we as fans still need patience.

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01-04-2012, 12:36 PM
  #27
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I'm not so sure comparing a successful PK of '98-99 is relevant to a PK of '11/12. The game is so different now that undoubtedly affects the PK system as well.

Who knows, perhaps that's the root of the issue? Maybe we have a PK that doesn't work that well for today's NHL.

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01-04-2012, 12:56 PM
  #28
Darcy Tucker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EazyB97 View Post
Pretty sure Phaneuf, Gunnar and Gardiner have the best PK numbers on our backend, while Schenn, Komi and Liles are the worst.
I don't care what the stats say, for the last month+ Phaneuf has been downright bad on the PK.

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01-04-2012, 01:11 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by apb03 View Post
I'm not so sure comparing a successful PK of '98-99 is relevant to a PK of '11/12. The game is so different now that undoubtedly affects the PK system as well.

Who knows, perhaps that's the root of the issue? Maybe we have a PK that doesn't work that well for today's NHL.
He also had an 85.8% PK in San Jose the year prior to coming here.

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01-04-2012, 01:15 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Darcy Tucker View Post
I don't care what the stats say, for the last month+ Phaneuf has been downright bad on the PK.
Ok then. I guess you also wouldn't care that Schenn is one of our worst PKers either.

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01-04-2012, 01:41 PM
  #31
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I really don't like Schenn on the PK. He never clears the puck when given an opportunity, and for my money that's more important than anything. If your D can't clear the puck, you're in big, big trouble.
This, totally this. Schenn as one of our best PK defensemen makes me laugh. Gunnarson has been our only good D on the PK this year.

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01-04-2012, 01:43 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Hyperglide View Post
This, totally this. Schenn as one of our best PK defensemen makes me laugh. Gunnarson has been our only good D on the PK this year.
The Gunner Phaneuf pairing are over 85% successful on the PK.(using TOI/SHGA ratio).

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01-04-2012, 02:16 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by dream team43 View Post
So your saying its a roster issue?
It's both.

Ron Wilson came in and just implimented the same system he has always used in the past, but this team isn't good enough to play that way. With a better team, the system would work.... but a better coach would have realized that and changed his system.

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01-04-2012, 02:25 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
It's both.

Ron Wilson came in and just implimented the same system he has always used in the past, but this team isn't good enough to play that way. With a better team, the system would work.... but a better coach would have realized that and changed his system.
I believe it's mostly systems related, but I can't buy the argument that Wilson just threw out the same PK philosophy for 4 years now and watched the same thing fail over and over again. It looks like they've tried a few different things to me, but they continue to ask too much of their players and don't emphasize the little aspects of the PK like clearing the pucks and getting in to the right lanes before closing gaps

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01-04-2012, 02:30 PM
  #35
Mojo19
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Cool thread.

That's definitely surprising... the 1997-1998 Washington Capitals certainly weren't a incredibly talented team on the back-end either. Kolzig was a solid goalie, but not exceptional IMO.

I wonder why he can't fix the Leafs PK.

Maybe it is a personnel issue of some sort, or maybe the players just aren't playing it the right way. Hard to defend him much though, for 4 years of terrible penalty-killing.

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Old
01-04-2012, 02:36 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by clawfirst View Post
Ok then. I guess you also wouldn't care that Schenn is one of our worst PKers either.
Damn the facts!

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Old
01-04-2012, 02:38 PM
  #37
blue82
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we need long sticks like antropov and ponikarovsky ..im not saying those guys exactly but our PK did go down the tubes when each of them left..coincidence maybe but im with the people that say the problem is the players on the ice not necessarily the coaching

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01-04-2012, 02:44 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EazyB97 View Post
I believe it's mostly systems related, but I can't buy the argument that Wilson just threw out the same PK philosophy for 4 years now and watched the same thing fail over and over again. It looks like they've tried a few different things to me, but they continue to ask too much of their players and don't emphasize the little aspects of the PK like clearing the pucks and getting in to the right lanes before closing gaps
That bolded part is the problem. A good coach would realize he is asking too much, and change the system to something simpler, not something equally or more demanding (which is what he did!!)

As I said, it's both.

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01-04-2012, 02:48 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by 81inblueandwhite View Post
we need long sticks like antropov and ponikarovsky ..im not saying those guys exactly but our PK did go down the tubes when each of them left..coincidence maybe but im with the people that say the problem is the players on the ice not necessarily the coaching
I didn't mind them on the PK, but the PK was in the dumps before they left. Bottom 5 the last 3 years they played for the Leafs (27th, 29th, 30th)

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01-04-2012, 02:53 PM
  #40
blue82
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Originally Posted by EazyB97 View Post
I didn't mind them on the PK, but the PK was in the dumps before they left. Bottom 5 the last 3 years they played for the Leafs (27th, 29th, 30th)
which unfortuantely is an improvement from this year

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01-04-2012, 03:13 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by 81inblueandwhite View Post
we need long sticks like antropov and ponikarovsky ..im not saying those guys exactly but our PK did go down the tubes when each of them left..coincidence maybe but im with the people that say the problem is the players on the ice not necessarily the coaching
They were here from 2005 to 2009, right?

2005/2006: 24th
2006/2007: 27th
2007/2008: 29th
2008/2009: 30th

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01-04-2012, 03:15 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by anderson3133 View Post
He also had an 85.8% PK in San Jose the year prior to coming here.
The game has totally changed in the last few years.

Obviously penalty killing is totally different now than it was in 07-08. I mean there is.. and.. well.. something different!


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01-04-2012, 04:12 PM
  #43
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The players on one team may not be capable of playing the way the players on another team do. It's up to the coach to adapt to something suitable for the team he is actually coaching, not blame the players when they are incompatible with what he is trying to do FOR SEVERAL YEARS IN A ROW. We definitely do not have the worst PKers in the league, responsible for a goalie having almost top 5 even strength stats, and 70th place PK stats.

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01-04-2012, 04:15 PM
  #44
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Experience and balls are two really important things to have on the PK, and I'm not sure we have those.

Besides, we give teams way too much space to fire it from the point.

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Old
01-04-2012, 04:18 PM
  #45
Cleric
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Also:

Toronto
2011-2012 - currently 73.2% (30th)
2010-2011 - 77.4% (28th)
2009-2010 - 74.6% (30th)
2008-2009 - 74.7% (30th)

San Jose
2007-2008 - 85.8% (1st)
2006-2007 - 83.3% (14th)
2005-2006 - 80.7% (23rd)
2003-2004 - 85.2% (7th)
2002-2003 - 81.0% (30th)

Washington
2001-2002 - 82.1% (24th)
2000-2001 - 84.1% (13th of 30 teams)
1999-2000 - 86.2% (7th of 28 teams)
1998-1999 - 84.4% (15th of 27 teams)
1997-1998 - 89.2% (1st of 26 teams)

Anaheim
1996-1997 - 81.5% (22nd of 26 teams)
1995-1996 - 80.8% (17th of 26 teams)
1994-1995 - 75.6% (26TH of 26 teams)
1993-1994 - 82.7% (6th of 26 teams)

So, by the numbers.. Ronnie's pk has averaged out to 21st (20.90) out of 30 teams. In a 26 team league he has managed to finish 14th on average (14.4).

In a 30 team league, his PK is usually in the bottom third, and has precisely TWO top 10 finishes. Furthermore, his best effort with us was 28th place, and we have other wise been dead last.

Also, 5 times in 18 years (27.78% of the time) he has had the worst pk in the league.

It's nice to pull one arbitrary stat when his PK has been good, but you could have picked a few years later when Washington finished 24th, or when the Sharks finished 30th, his PK has been up and down, but for the most part it has been in the bottom half, or even third of the NHL.

In under the last 20 years his PK has been dead last 5 times (over 1/4 of his coaching career), I doubt any other coach is anywhere near that.

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Old
01-04-2012, 04:22 PM
  #46
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Cool thread... Scott Gomez scored 33 goals in 05-06 and Jason Blake scored 40 goals in 06-07 so... yeah.




FIRE WILSON

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Old
01-04-2012, 04:26 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleric View Post
Also:

Toronto
2011-2012 - currently 73.2% (30th)
2010-2011 - 77.4% (28th)
2009-2010 - 74.6% (30th)
2008-2009 - 74.7% (30th)

San Jose
2007-2008 - 85.8% (1st)
2006-2007 - 83.3% (14th)
2005-2006 - 80.7% (23rd)
2003-2004 - 85.2% (7th)
2002-2003 - 81.0% (30th)

Washington
2001-2002 - 82.1% (24th)
2000-2001 - 84.1% (13th of 30 teams)
1999-2000 - 86.2% (7th of 28 teams)
1998-1999 - 84.4% (15th of 27 teams)
1997-1998 - 89.2% (1st of 26 teams)

Anaheim
1996-1997 - 81.5% (22nd of 26 teams)
1995-1996 - 80.8% (17th of 26 teams)
1994-1995 - 75.6% (26TH of 26 teams)
1993-1994 - 82.7% (6th of 26 teams)

So, by the numbers.. Ronnie's pk has averaged out to 21st (20.90) out of 30 teams. In a 26 team league he has managed to finish 14th on average (14.4).

In a 30 team league, his PK is usually in the bottom third, and has precisely TWO top 10 finishes. Furthermore, his best effort with us was 28th place, and we have other wise been dead last.

Also, 5 times in 18 years (27.78% of the time) he has had the worst pk in the league.

It's nice to pull one arbitrary stat when his PK has been good, but you could have picked a few years later when Washington finished 24th, or when the Sharks finished 30th, his PK has been up and down, but for the most part it has been in the bottom half, or even third of the NHL.

In under the last 20 years his PK has been dead last 5 times (over 1/4 of his coaching career), I doubt any other coach is anywhere near that.
Well that's all fine and dandy but his PK% has only ever been sub 80% once prior to joining the Leafs organization. Comparatively, I could care less where he finished in any given year because stats change. I.e. look at his '95-'96 stays and '96-'97 stats in Anaheim. His PK% improved over the year 0.7 percentage points and yet they slid from 17th in the league to 22nd in the league.

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Old
01-04-2012, 04:28 PM
  #48
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The game in the 90's was way different then the game is now. We need a younger coach who has knowledge on how to work special teams with the kids. I remember when a 60 year old gym teacher of mine was trying to teach us to play football we sucked but the next year more then half the team was the same and the coach was younger and we got along and improved and made the playoffs with ease. Nothing against older people here but if you have worked all your life give sometime to yourself and have a little fun and let some one else do the job and be remembered for the good.

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Old
01-04-2012, 08:51 PM
  #49
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Much like Dupuis has taken the scapegoat role, because his team mates have made horrible mistakes; Wilson has been no different.

Sometimes I wonder if the people on these forums watch the games.

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Old
01-04-2012, 09:42 PM
  #50
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Against TB, Millen showed an isolated incident of Phaneuf jumping from the d-spot all the way up to the point. Millen was like "where the hell's he going". One play, Kulie, of all people, goes all the way into the corner after the puck, completely abandoning the point man. Fortunately, they got away with both plays, Tampa was lousy and we were much better in pursuit. It's been all about the players doing the wrong things but who's responsible for teaching them and cleaning that up, Wilson or my grandmother?
That said, the TB game was a vast improvement, if for no other reason than everybody was actually moving.

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