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01-04-2012, 11:16 AM
  #1
Boris Le Tigre
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Stock Thread

So I got my annual report from ING today ()and I'm reading so much stuff about the markets that today I am in the mood for taking stock of our roster/prospects...

Lets treat our players and prospects as commodities and categorize them. Here are some suggested categories... (these guys are not human beings they are cyborg android machines so no bleeding hearts please... j/k)

Blue Chip Stock (Budding star player with bright future)
Rising Stock (budding player with bright future)
Stagnant Stock (player is what they are at this point)
Declining Stock (player is declining and has no future)

I will do a list in post one (or somewhere on the first page to get the ball rolling). But I am interested in how the different posters see the players/prospects.

Thanks to anybody who par-takes!


More Info:
Roster:
http://canadiens.nhl.com/club/roster.htm
2012 Stats:
http://canadiens.nhl.com/club/stats....eason=20112012
2012 Prospects:
http://canadiens.nhl.com/club/roster.htm?type=prospect

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01-04-2012, 11:20 AM
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Roster Guys

Forwards#
45 Mike Blunden
13 Michael Cammalleri
72 Erik Cole
52 Mathieu Darche
51 David Desharnais
81 Lars Eller
21 Brian Gionta
11 Scott Gomez
46 Andrei Kostitsyn
71 Louis Leblanc
32 Travis Moen
15 Petteri Nokelainen
67 Max Pacioretty
14 Tomas Plekanec
53 Ryan White **

17 Chris Campoli
61 Raphael Diaz
74 Alexei Emelin
75 Hal Gill
26 Josh Gorges
22 Tomas Kaberle
79 Andrei Markov
76 P.K. Subban
68 Yannick Weber

30 Peter Budaj
31 Carey Price

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01-04-2012, 11:22 AM
  #3
Boris Le Tigre
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Prospects (HF top 20)

Feel free to do the prospects too but that could get long...

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/article...eal_canadiens/


Last edited by Boris Le Tigre: 01-04-2012 at 11:36 AM.
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Old
01-04-2012, 11:27 AM
  #4
Richiebottles
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Forwards#
45 Mike Blunden
13 Michael Cammalleri
72 Erik Cole
52 Mathieu Darche
51 David Desharnais
81 Lars Eller
21 Brian Gionta
11 Scott Gomez
46 Andrei Kostitsyn
71 Louis Leblanc
32 Travis Moen
15 Petteri Nokelainen
67 Max Pacioretty
14 Tomas Plekanec
53 Ryan White **
Alex Galchenyuk

17 Chris Campoli
61 Raphael Diaz
74 Alexei Emelin
75 Hal Gill
26 Josh Gorges
22 Tomas Kaberle
79 Andrei Markov
76 P.K. Subban
68 Yannick Weber

30 Peter Budaj
31 Carey Price

1.Nathan Beaulieu, D
2.Danny Kristo, RW
3.Louis Leblanc, C
4.Aaron Palushaj, RW
5.Jarred Tinordi, D
6.Alexander Avtsin, RW
7.Alexei Emelin, D
8.Brendon Nash, D
9.Andreas Engqvist, C
10.Ryan White, C
11.Brendan Gallagher, RW
12.Steve Quailer, RW
13.Mac Bennett, D
14.Mark Mitera, D
15.Michael Bournival, C
16.Gabriel Dumont, C
17.Joonas Nattinen, C
18.Alain Berger, RW
Other Notables
1.Olivier Archambault, LW
2.Hunter Bishop, C
3.Michael Cichy, C
4.Andrew Conboy, LW
5.Peter Delmas, G

6.Josiah Didier, D
7.Darren Dietz, D

8.Morgan Ellis, D
9.Olivier Fortier, C
10.Scott Kishel, D
11.Philippe Lefebvre, LW
12.Mark MacMillan, LW
13.Dany Masse, LW
14.Robert Mayer, G

15.Magnus Nygren, D
16.Greg Pateryn, D

17.Daniel Pribyl, C
18.Ian Schultz, RW
19.Joe Stejskal, D
20.Colin Sullivan, D
21.Maxim Trunev, RW
22.Dustin Walsh, C
23.John Westin, LW

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Old
01-04-2012, 11:34 AM
  #5
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Roster Guys

Blue Chip Stock
Price
Subban


Rising Stock
71 Louis Leblanc
51 David Desharnais
81 Lars Eller
67 Max Pacioretty
61 Raphael Diaz
74 Alexei Emelin
26 Josh Gorges
32 Travis Moen
72 Erik Cole
53 Ryan White **


Stagnant Stock
13 Michael Cammalleri
45 Mike Blunden
21 Brian Gionta
46 Andrei Kostitsyn
15 Petteri Nokelainen
14 Tomas Plekanec (imho)
79 Andrei Markov
75 Hal Gill
30 Peter Budaj
68 Yannick Weber


Declining Stock
17 Chris Campoli
22 Tomas Kaberle


Last edited by Boris Le Tigre: 01-04-2012 at 11:44 AM.
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Old
01-04-2012, 11:35 AM
  #6
loudi94
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Can we change the yellow to some other colour? My old eyes can't read the names.

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Old
01-04-2012, 11:41 AM
  #7
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nice list there... KA.

I tried to do the prospects but that was a lot of copying and pasting.
We differ on Moen. I think his stock is on the rise this year and he sould be able to capitalize and get padi more. This is his best year (of his tenure with us) and I although he may decline (he's not getting any younger) he seems likely to receive a raise and also someone we can sell and get good value for...

I was thinking of it from the sellers perspective. The yellow guys are what they are. But the green guys they are likely to have more value as it's pretty well guranteed they are gonna improve... or they have a market based on this years play.


Last edited by Boris Le Tigre: 01-04-2012 at 11:51 AM.
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01-04-2012, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loudi94 View Post
Can we change the yellow to some other colour? My old eyes can't read the names.
going for the stop light but yeah the yellow is useless...

any colour you like (Dark Side of the Moon reference)

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01-04-2012, 11:44 AM
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I thought this thread was going to be about stock picks, financial talk..lol

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01-04-2012, 11:50 AM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs View Post
I thought this thread was going to be about stock picks, financial talk..lol
... we could use one of those. I am a budding market enthusiast despite my negative returns. I just need someone to colour code decision options so I can make sound ones or rip someone a new one that chose the wrong color.

I'd participate in a real stock thread...

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01-04-2012, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs View Post
I thought this thread was going to be about stock picks, financial talk..lol
Wait... Where is Enron ?

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01-04-2012, 11:55 AM
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loudi94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Humpty Dumpty View Post
... we could use one of those. I am a budding market enthusiast despite my negative returns. I just need someone to colour code decision options so I can make sound ones or rip someone a new one that chose the wrong color.

I'd participate in a real stock thread...
Check out Poynt: V.PYN

Location based Services App. Download the app and play with it for a bit. The December presentation on their website looks like there is some room for exponential growth.

DYODD.

Back to the original thread.

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Old
01-04-2012, 12:48 PM
  #13
montreal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Humpty Dumpty View Post
... we could use one of those. I am a budding market enthusiast despite my negative returns. I just need someone to colour code decision options so I can make sound ones or rip someone a new one that chose the wrong color.

I'd participate in a real stock thread...
I work in investment banking for Citibank, have my degree in Finance and was a daytrader for 6 years while also working at firms like the Vanguard Group and JP Morgan.

If you want a stock to take a look at, high risk high reward type check out Star Scientific, ticker symbol CIGX.

Another one is Sodastream, ticker SODA.

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01-04-2012, 12:58 PM
  #14
subbanged
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Quote:
Originally Posted by montreal View Post
I work in investment banking for Citibank, have my degree in Finance and was a daytrader for 6 years while also working at firms like the Vanguard Group and JP Morgan.

If you want a stock to take a look at, high risk high reward type check out Star Scientific, ticker symbol CIGX.

Another one is Sodastream, ticker SODA.
Montreal, not in a million years would I ever have guessed that was your career, I'm personally studying right now to get my MBA in finance, to take up a similar career path.

As for the list

Carey Price
PK Subban
Max Pacioretty


Lars Eller
Nathen Beaulieu
Brendan Gallagher
Jarred Tinordi
Michael Bournival
Louis Leblanc
Ryan White
David Desharnais
Alexei Yemelin
Raphael Diaz
Yannick Weber
Darren Dietz

Markov
Plekanec
Cammalleri
Cole
Kaberle
Moen
kostitsyn
Gorges

Gomez
Gionta
Darche
Campoli


Can't think of the rest, personally I don't consider anyone in our prospect currently a blue chipper all solid pieces but 3-4 defenseman not 1-2 and 2nd line players not first line

We still need that star forward to be a game breaker for us.

Galchenyuk/forsberg/grigerenko or Yakupov

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01-04-2012, 12:59 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by montreal View Post
I work in investment banking for Citibank, have my degree in Finance and was a daytrader for 6 years while also working at firms like the Vanguard Group and JP Morgan.

If you want a stock to take a look at, high risk high reward type check out Star Scientific, ticker symbol CIGX.

Another one is Sodastream, ticker SODA.
Thanks, I have put these on my watch list. I am still buying some gold stocks like Freegold TSE:FVL which I think will explode this summer, based on the last drill results. I hit a homerun with my last gold stock, hoping for a second.

I was heavy into Richfield Ventures before they were bought out by Newgold.

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01-04-2012, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs View Post
I thought this thread was going to be about stock picks, financial talk..lol
i did too...lol!

i was going to say me and the stock market are in the past. takes too much of my mind. lost too much money. besides my house i have 1 investment that is life insurance policy. when i turn 65 i get $50,000 in 1984 money, the year i took it out. which is estimated to be worth around $200,000. that is what i have to retire on, besides my gov't pension of course

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01-04-2012, 01:09 PM
  #17
montreal
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Originally Posted by subbanged View Post
Montreal, not in a million years would I ever have guessed that was your career, I'm personally studying right now to get my MBA in finance, to take up a similar career path.
Good luck with that. I've been trading stocks for 18 years now and have worked for some of the biggest firms in the USA but working for myself was the best.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs View Post
Thanks, I have put these on my watch list. I am still buying some gold stocks like Freegold TSE:FVL which I think will explode this summer, based on the last drill results. I hit a homerun with my last gold stock, hoping for a second.

I was heavy into Richfield Ventures before they were bought out by Newgold.
I bought Gold Corp (symbol GG) back when gold was trading around 270 and ounce. Too bad I sold it after gold trippled, didn't think it would go so high so fast. Did much better with oil and silver. I'm a big fan of the price of silver, think it's going to be trading in the '50's within a couple years, bought in when it was under 9 bucks.

My favorite oil stock is a company from Norway, ticker SUBCY, bought it years ago when it was around 3 bucks, has stalled since it's highs of close to 30 but has been good to me over the years.

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01-04-2012, 01:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by montreal View Post
Good luck with that. I've been trading stocks for 18 years now and have worked for some of the biggest firms in the USA but working for myself was the best.



I bought Gold Corp (symbol GG) back when gold was trading around 270 and ounce. Too bad I sold it after gold trippled, didn't think it would go so high so fast. Did much better with oil and silver. I'm a big fan of the price of silver, think it's going to be trading in the '50's within a couple years, bought in when it was under 9 bucks.

My favorite oil stock is a company from Norway, ticker SUBCY, bought it years ago when it was around 3 bucks, has stalled since it's highs of close to 30 but has been good to me over the years.
any dividend stocks you would put 200k into?

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01-04-2012, 01:30 PM
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FAZ and FAS

that is all I trade... don't ever hold them overnight.

goodluck.

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01-04-2012, 02:00 PM
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Rising star assets (will continue to improve and should be all-star caliber players in the future)

31 Carey Price
76 P.K. Subban
67 Max Pacioretty


3 players
current cap hit: 5.25M$
likely 2012-2013 cap hit: 10-12M$


Rising assets (will continue to improve from level they are at now)

81 Lars Eller
51 David Desharnais
71 Louis Leblanc
46 Andrei Kostitsyn
61 Raphael Diaz
74 Alexei Emelin
68 Yannick Weber
53 Ryan White
26 Josh Gorges


9 players
current cap hit: 13M$ (avg 1.4M$/player)
likely 2012-2013 cap hit: 15-17M$ (avg 1.6-1.8M$/player)


Stagnated assets ( are who they are, won't improve much but should maintain current level for forseable future)

45 Mike Blunden
13 Michael Cammalleri
72 Erik Cole
21 Brian Gionta
32 Travis Moen
15 Petteri Nokelainen
14 Tomas Plekanec
17 Chris Campoli
30 Peter Budaj


9 players
cap hit: 26M$ (avg 2.9M$/player)
likely 2012-2013 cap hit : 26M$ (avg 2.9M$/player)


Declining assets (have moved from stagnating position to declining position, little chance that they return to previous level and likely to continue declining from season to season)


11 Scott Gomez
52 Mathieu Darche
75 Hal Gill
22 Tomas Kaberle
79 Andrei Markov


5 players
cap hit: 20M$ (avg 4M$/player)
likely 2012-2013 cap hit: 20M$ (avg 4M$/player)



when you break it down this way, imo it reinforces that we do have a solid base of assets to build a contender from, the problem remains spending far too much of our cap on players that are regressing (players in the red).


quite simply, if we could move 1-2 of the high salary "red" players (Gomez/Kaberle), while replacing them with "grey" players, and then move 1-2 "grey" players and replace them with "green" players, we'd quite likely be saving $ while icing a more competitive team...

with that extra cap space, and ideally a few assets (picks/prospects) to work with from the players shipped out, a schrewd GM could manoeuvre their way into a top 10 pick, or even an extra top-10 pick (assuming we get one on our own), and thus hopefully add two more "blue" assets to our mix.


factor in:

Gallagher
Tinordi
Beaulieu
Bournival
Kristo

who are all likely "green" assets with an outside chance at becoming "blue" assets...

plus

Bennett
Avtsin
Palushaj
Ellis
Pribyl
Dietz
Dumont
Nash
Quailer

and a few other prospects in the pipelines that could potentially turn into "green" NHL assets eventually.



take all of that into account, and we have some pretty solid depth and strong NHL potential prospects, especially in the "complementary" or "secondary" level.

if we had our big cap dollars locked in with established stars, we would already have our contending team...

so now the struggle is simply to transition the millions we have wasted in the likes of Gomez, Kaberle, Cammalleri (~18M$ right there) and gradually re-allocate that into players actually playing at that "level" (be it by drafting them and grooming them ourselves, or being far more strategic and effective in spending on the UFA market or in trades).


consider this:

Canucks- Sedin/Sedin/Hamhuis = 16.6M$ (all signed on UFA deals)
Blackhawks- Hossa/Sharp/Seabrook = 17M$ (all signed on UFA deals *Keith as RFA signing well into UFA status)
Bruins- Bergeron/Chara/Thomas = 17M$ (all signed on UFA deals)
San Jose- THornton/Marleau/Boyle = 20.5M$ (all signed on UFA deals)
Detroit- Datsyuk/Lidstrom/Zetterberg = ~18M$ (all signed on UFA deals)



when you consider that our top paid players contribute so little to the team, compared to what the top paid players on contending teams contribute to their respective teams, it's no wonder we are the worst ranked team of the top 10 salary spending teams in the league (and by a pretty solid margin... 5 pts behind Sabres, the next closest team).

Injuries you say? I say phooey, injuries are afflicting every team, and while we've lost a huge amount of "salary cap" to injuries, Gomez's 7.4M$/13 games played is a huge part of that, and his absence is at best a marginal factor in our disappointing play... and Markov's absence, given that it extends almost 2 years now, can hardly be considered a reasonable excuse, given the circumstances.


fix that obvious and awful imbalance (created directly by Gainey/Gauthier and their approach to roster building), and we could see a pretty quick turn around.

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01-04-2012, 02:16 PM
  #21
Boris Le Tigre
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great post Miller Time...

It's a good way to conceptualize where our dollars are. And shedding guys in the grey/red for guys who are either known commodities and/or rising commodities is the smart way to go about it.

And it does show that we are not in terribly awful shape. Although the Kaberle move is the kind of band-aid move that may handicap us when it comes to salary spent on guys on the rise.

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01-04-2012, 02:40 PM
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Quote:
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I thought this thread was going to be about stock picks, financial talk..lol
same here

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01-04-2012, 02:41 PM
  #23
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same here
Meh

this thread is multi-faceted. Its about stock. Players, Finances, maybe wheat... bouillon... you name it. it's the stock thread

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01-04-2012, 02:50 PM
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i got a really cool popcorn machine today

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01-04-2012, 02:52 PM
  #25
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i got a really cool popcorn machine today
You're full of hot air.

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